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Police Use of Stun Guns on Children Riles Parents(Officers Taser Boy, 6, and Girl, 12)
aolsvc.news.aol.com ^ | 11 12 04 | aolnews.com

Posted on 11/13/2004 1:40:34 PM PST by freepatriot32

MIAMI (Nov. 13) - Miami-Dade police have acknowledged using a stun gun on a second youngster just weeks after subduing a 55-pound first-grader with a 50,000-volt shock.

In the second instance, a 15-year-veteran officer used his Taser to immobilize a 12-year-old girl who was playing hooky from school.

Police Director Bobby Parker defended the decision to shock the 6-year-old boy on Oct. 20 because he was threatening to injure himself with a shard of glass he was holding, but he said Friday that he could not defend the decision to shock the fleeing girl, who was apparently drunk.

According to the incident report, officer William Nelson responded to a complaint that children were swimming in a pool, drinking alcohol and smoking cigars about 11 a.m. on Nov. 5.

Nelson said he noticed the girl was intoxicated and told her to get dressed so he could take her back to school.

"While walking the girl to the police car, she took off running through the parking lot," Nelson wrote in his report.

Nelson, 38, said he chased her and yelled several times for her to stop. Nelson said he pulled out the Taser and fired when the girl began to run into traffic. The electric probes hit the girl in the neck and lower back, immobilizing her with 50,000 volts.

Nelson said he fired "for my safety along with the girl's safety." Paramedics treated the girl, who went home with her mother.

Parker said department policy permits officers to use the Taser to apprehend someone, but he said he expected his officers to use better judgment, especially when police had no plans to arrest someone playing hooky.

The first incident had already exposed the department to more criticism for its use of Tasers, which it has begun distributing in greater numbers to officers.

"The police could have handled this better," said the 6-year-old boy's mother, Kathy Rojas. "They did not have to shoot him."

Parker said that, in light of the disclosure of the second incident, the department will review its policy.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Extended News; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: 12; 6; and; banglist; boy; childabuse; children; donutwatch; florida; girl; govwatch; guns; miami; of; officers; on; parents; police; policestate; riles; setbeeberonstune; state; stun; taser; use; when6yroldsgobad
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To: Calusa
Middle of a school day.

Whaddya say? On drugs and pregnant by the time she's 14?

And somehow that will be our fault.

51 posted on 11/13/2004 3:07:15 PM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: freepatriot32

This 6 year old and 12 year old kids are not ordinary kids. They are already F__ Up. I have kids in that age range. They are afraid of authority. If a cop came up to my kids and said you are doing something wrong, they would react with shame and fear of being in trouble and probably want their parents. They would not run away or play psycho games with the cops by threatening to hurt themselves. They would immediately comply and want to go home. These kids were drunk, high and street smart. I rather have the cops tazer them and get them off the streets, otherwise they would be predators against you, me and worst of all be in our public schools to hurt your kids.


52 posted on 11/13/2004 3:08:23 PM PST by Fee (Great powers never let minor allies dictate who, where and when they must fight.)
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To: HungarianGypsy

"It's a catch-22 for police officers now a days. You're wrong if you do, you're wrong if you don't."

Just so. And with that in mind, I for one would greatly prefer it if they didn't...


53 posted on 11/13/2004 3:10:37 PM PST by ladyrustic (seek Truth, Beauty, and Goodness)
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To: freepatriot32
We had a family in Cincinnati last year that was incensed about the coronor taking an hour to remove the body of thier son who was shot by drug dealers. No critizism of the shooter.
54 posted on 11/13/2004 3:12:09 PM PST by anton
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To: robertpaulsen

And after pregnancy it will be welfare and government funded day care for the child. And then crazy checks for the child's discipline problems so the parent can buy prescription medicine to correct it. And then the child will have a child and the cycle will begin again.


55 posted on 11/13/2004 3:13:15 PM PST by EmilyGeiger
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To: WFTR

Tort reform -- loser pays (English Rule).


56 posted on 11/13/2004 3:13:34 PM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen

How can this possibly happen in America? This a child 12 years old what are the chances she's gonna make it? Who will answer? And who will defend us from the thugs if we emasculate the Thin Blue Line of Law Enforcement? I really wanna see those parents' faces on the six o'clock news. I wanna hear what they have to say for themselves. Of course it'll just be their lawyers, there are cohorts of wealthy tort attorneys in Kendall.


57 posted on 11/13/2004 3:20:02 PM PST by Calusa (Bush cooked Kerry's Goose!)
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To: freepatriot32
I think that if this girl's parents don't straighten her out soon, being tased will fade into being the least of her problems.
58 posted on 11/13/2004 3:24:50 PM PST by Colorado Doug
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To: skaterboy
I can't see the first one.

I would have just chucked something at the kid and knocked him over and then just tackled him when he was down.

Its not hard, and I had to do something similar once when somone pulled a knife on me.

59 posted on 11/13/2004 3:33:24 PM PST by Sonny M ("oderint dum metuant")
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To: freepatriot32
Nelson said he noticed the girl was intoxicated and told her to get dressed so he could take her back to school.

ummm, should the girl be returned to school if she was intoxicated? just wondering.
60 posted on 11/13/2004 3:34:13 PM PST by F15Eagle
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To: Grig

I just asked the same question.


61 posted on 11/13/2004 3:34:48 PM PST by F15Eagle
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To: freepatriot32
I pray that all people reap what they sow. ...an eye-for-an-eye curse on all who promote officious misconduct and gluttony.
62 posted on 11/13/2004 3:34:58 PM PST by familyop (Essayons)
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To: Calusa
"I really wanna see those parents' faces on the six o'clock news."

Parents? Plural?

I have this funny feeling that the father of the 12-year-old is long gone.

63 posted on 11/13/2004 3:35:31 PM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: Colorado Doug

Yes --- it sounds like these kids are already so bizarre --- I wonder if they're ritalin kids --- they might as well get used to being tasered.


64 posted on 11/13/2004 3:38:02 PM PST by FITZ
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To: WFTR
In both instances if the children would have been acting appropriately none of this would have happened. I think they should go taser the parents too.
65 posted on 11/13/2004 3:43:56 PM PST by ThisLittleLightofMine
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To: Calusa

apparently she was intoxicated but "half-naked"?


66 posted on 11/13/2004 3:49:39 PM PST by F15Eagle
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To: Mulder
As the mindset of the many police officers (a growing number) continues to be one of an occupying soldier instead of a peace officer, fewer and fewer citizens will give them the benefit of the doubt in the scenarios.

While given the facts as I read them, I don't see any problem with a juvenile delinquent brat getting tased for resisting arrest, I fully agree with you regarding the para-militarization of our police forces. Military and police missions are different and wide separation is necessary in a free society. In other words, no jack booted thugs needed.

67 posted on 11/13/2004 3:51:40 PM PST by Colorado Doug
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To: lucky7

No... you have weak, nancy boy cops who cannot deal with a 6 year old child without a 50,000 volt shock.


68 posted on 11/13/2004 4:07:49 PM PST by protest1
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To: robertpaulsen
Whaddya say? On drugs and pregnant by the time she's 14?

Overdosed or in a car wreck and dead by 16. Maybe killing someone else's family while she's at it.

69 posted on 11/13/2004 4:15:05 PM PST by Colorado Doug
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To: tuffydoodle

"It's cold, rainy and a Saturday. My kids are lucky that I don't have a taser right now.

I'm so tired of refereeing fights that I may just have to leave and go shopping."

Nope. Sorry. You don't understand. They are only "harmless" in the hands of a police officer who uses them on a child.

In YOUR hands they would constitute child abuse and you would be arrested for same.



70 posted on 11/13/2004 4:38:17 PM PST by TalBlack
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To: F15Eagle
told her to get dressed

My mistake, I guess that makes her parents Dr. Phil and Oprah, and the Policeman is Attila the Hun.

71 posted on 11/13/2004 4:39:28 PM PST by Calusa (Bush cooked Kerry's Goose!)
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To: TalBlack

I think I failed in my attempt at humor. Unfortunately, that's not unusual.


72 posted on 11/13/2004 4:51:29 PM PST by tuffydoodle
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Comment #73 Removed by Moderator

To: Spann_Tillman

It's a matter of responsibility if I mess up I get busted. Law enforcement is a Service, they are doing their job. Without it the ants inherit the earth.


74 posted on 11/13/2004 5:12:44 PM PST by Calusa (Bush cooked Kerry's Goose!)
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To: CindyDawg

Could you please explain in specific detail, step by step, how you would have taken down an angry six-year-old waving around a sharp piece of glass with which he's already cut himself a few times, without using a Taser?


75 posted on 11/13/2004 5:13:33 PM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: protest1
No... you have weak, nancy boy cops who cannot deal with a 6 year old child without a 50,000 volt shock.

You'd rather have big burly cops snapping his little six-year-old bones and grinding his face into the pavement instead of dropping him with a Taser that leaves no lasting effects?

76 posted on 11/13/2004 5:20:24 PM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: TalBlack
Nope. Sorry. You don't understand. They are only "harmless" in the hands of a police officer who uses them on a child.

The kid in question was poised to do himself very serious, lasting injury with a shard of glass - he'd already cut his face near his eye - and stab and slice anyone who got near him.

A Taser isn't "harmless," but compared to severed tendons and arteries, it's about as close to harmless as it comes.

77 posted on 11/13/2004 5:23:04 PM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: Calusa

"swimming in a pool"


78 posted on 11/13/2004 5:29:50 PM PST by F15Eagle
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To: TalBlack
My kids are lucky that I don't have a taser right now

I kinda got a kick out of your comment. . . but then, I used to play with charged capacitors and tesla coils when I was 12.

I didn't have much time for drinking and neckked pool parties during school days at the that age. Maybe I was just a stick in the mud.

79 posted on 11/13/2004 5:32:03 PM PST by Colorado Doug
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To: TalBlack; tuffydoodle

oops post 79 was meant for tuffydoodle


80 posted on 11/13/2004 5:34:21 PM PST by Colorado Doug
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To: paul51

Even better. Fire them all, except for the one on-call for you, when you finally need one.

In the meantime, of the girl and her friends wish to party instead of go to school, and one of them drunkenly drowns, just chalk it up to "personal choice' and another victory for brainless Libertarianism...that is the kind that ignores the "responsible" parts, and only concetrates on the 'liberty' part.

We may not be our brother's keeper, but are damned sure his kids keepers, when he refuses to do the job.


81 posted on 11/13/2004 5:55:59 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (The world needs more horses, and fewer Jackasses!)
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To: mvpel
Would I have stepped to his side as he swung placing my hand on his outer arm and walked him around.? When he turned towards me, raked at his face and when he pulled back, pinned his shoulder, lifted his arm, and pigeon toed around and took him to the ground? (# 9 my favorite. # 10 a good one too:') Nah. Anyone that works with kids or adults should have takedown procedures in place though and I would think policeman are trained for this too. As for me if it was my kid holding something and not giving it to me, I would grab his arm and wrap my arms around him and take it away and then spank his butt. I am forever telling my DIL that if she can't control my granddaughter at 3 she won't be able to control her at 13.It's easy to 2nd guess police officers and sometimes no matter what they do it's "wrong" This may have been appropriate but IMO it shouldn't have been the first choice. I was just saying that the 12 y/o much more understandable to me.
82 posted on 11/13/2004 5:59:59 PM PST by CindyDawg
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To: ApplegateRanch
Even better. Fire them all, except for the one on-call for you, when you finally need one.

That would be ok with me. I don't need them and I don't see any reason to pay them if they don't have better things to do other than tas 5 and 12 year olds

83 posted on 11/13/2004 6:01:13 PM PST by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: calex59

shot him 41 times, I guess in the blue areas of the country all that liberal stuff just festers in them, in the red areas of the country (Florida) we just use a stun gun to subdue them. Shot him 41 times, did any of the bullets hit the person? :-)


84 posted on 11/13/2004 6:14:50 PM PST by lucky7
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To: Calusa; CindyDawg
Apparently, it did not rile those who needed MOST to be, er, riled:
"Police Use of Stun Guns on Children Riles Parents"

"rile":

'cause annoyance in;
disturb, especially by minor irritations;
"Mosquitoes buzzing in my ear really bothers me";
"It irritates me that she never closes the door after she leaves"'

Only kerry would call out of control 6 and 12 year olds a nuisance or irritation.

85 posted on 11/13/2004 6:47:17 PM PST by cyn (Prayers always for Terri Schiavo and her family.)
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To: Calusa

(iow, good point. here's hoping the parents wake up and hold their children accountable. holding my breath ... passing out ...)


86 posted on 11/13/2004 6:49:58 PM PST by cyn (Prayers always for Terri Schiavo and her family.)
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To: Colorado Doug

The fact that the girl was doing adult-type stuff at age 12 boggles the mind. I think most kids are sticks in the mud compared to that girl. Actually, I don't remember ever doing that stuff in all of my 42 years. Maybe I'm the stick in the mud...


87 posted on 11/13/2004 6:58:02 PM PST by tuffydoodle
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To: robertpaulsen

Good point-As I said on another thread on the six year, It's easy to sit on the sides and comment, but the "The man in the arena" is the one that has to make and live with the ultimate decision


88 posted on 11/13/2004 7:07:39 PM PST by 5Madman2 (DemocRATS are Vermin)
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To: Mulder
I am one who has for years watched and been concerned with the militarization of police and the potential for abuse. I have kept a rather lengthy list of examples on one of my sites and am disposed to call it that way when I see it...but in this case, I do not believe it is the case.

The 6 year old had a shard of glass...I do not believe the police officer would have tased the kid if it had been something simple, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

The 12 year old girl was not simply playing hooky...she was drunk and about to run out into the street where she could have been killed.

In both cases, if indeed they are as reported here, I believe the police took the measures they did to protect these particular youngsters from themselves.

Just my opinion based on what I am reading here.

89 posted on 11/13/2004 7:15:43 PM PST by Jeff Head (Thank a vet for your freedom)
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To: cyn
here's hoping the parents wake up and hold their children accountable

I worry it's just me, but the news gets nuttier and nuttier. And the positions people stake out for themselves on the issues just get curioser and curioser. I believe children are individuals, that they watch and listen and look up to us. When we flaunt authority and trivialize common sense values we do them a great disservice in the long run.

90 posted on 11/13/2004 8:20:01 PM PST by Calusa (Bush cooked Kerry's Goose!)
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To: tuffydoodle
Actually, I don't remember ever doing that stuff in all of my 42 years

Well . . .I can barely remember doing such things either but I didn't inhale the cigars and I certainly wasn't twelve.

91 posted on 11/13/2004 8:23:08 PM PST by Colorado Doug
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To: skaterboy
Both taser-shots were to protect the safety of the children, as I see it (shard of glass, traffic hazard.)

Also, as I see it, the mother should take a taser to the ass for letting her kids get into this predicament to begin with, and then be arrested for neglect.

The officer should be commended....

92 posted on 11/13/2004 8:25:31 PM PST by yooper (If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there......)
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To: robertpaulsen
Loser pays would just cause idiot jurors to refuse to find for the plaintiff if finding for the defense would mean taking the big screen TV from some idiot plaintiff on welfare who has nothing else to lose anyway. However, loser pays would end up killing some middle class family with a legitimate claim who just didn't happen to win the sympathy of a jury of idiots.

Instead of automatic loser pays, each suit should include an automatic countersuit. If the countersuit found that the original suit had no merit whatsoever, then the original plaintiff would have to pay. Otherwise, the jury would just find that there wasn't enough evidence to make either side pay.

Bill

93 posted on 11/13/2004 8:26:10 PM PST by WFTR (Liberty isn't for cowards)
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To: ThisLittleLightofMine
In both instances if the children would have been acting appropriately none of this would have happened. I think they should go taser the parents too.

By your logic (actually your sophistry), we could condone the death penalty for littering because it wouldn't be applied as long as everyone "acted appropriately." The question is whether the Taser was a reasonable use of force given the nature of the situation. Running in the hallway at school is not "acting appropriately," but I suspect that you would be protesting vehemently if the school cop Tasered your kid for doing it.

These situations are a sign of decay in our society. Punishing the parents in an appropriate way might be a proper response. Tasering them is not "acting appropriately" on the part of our law enforcement/judicial system.

Bill

94 posted on 11/13/2004 8:35:38 PM PST by WFTR (Liberty isn't for cowards)
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To: freepatriot32
When t hey sought approval to use these things. . .the first 'promise' was they would be used ONLY for the most unruly and difficult cases.

Children do not fall under this category; I don't care how big they are for they are for their age.

Abuse; plain and simple. Gross abuse.

95 posted on 11/13/2004 8:36:58 PM PST by cricket (Don't lose your head. . vote Republican. . .)
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To: cricket

The six-year-old had already cut himself in his rage, and an effort to subdue him would have risked further serious injury to him and whoever was trying to grab him. A shard of glass can sever tendons resulting in permanent disability, or sever arteries resulting in death. The taser put an end to the situation with no further harm to him or anyone else.

I think it's abusive for you to demand that someone put his wrists, eyes, throat, and stomach within stabbing or slicing range of a shard of glass weilded by anyone, even a six-year-old, when a safe and effective alternative is available.


96 posted on 11/13/2004 9:22:58 PM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: freepatriot32

Some people think this is OK....Then why is this not.

Woman Pleads Guilty For Allowing Cattle Prod Discipline Presentence Investigation Ordered
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1064712/posts


97 posted on 11/13/2004 10:38:23 PM PST by quietolong
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To: mvpel
Rather than the Guard trying to approach him; the wiser choice might have been for the Guard to perhaps just sit and watch; offering to tallk; rather than to challenge. . .in other words; incororate some patience and basic psychology; as you allow time for this boy's meltdown to . ..cool down;. . .

'Less' IS more; when it comes to an adult, taking down a six-year-old.

We might imagine; that having a Guard approaching him with a taser might have helped escalate his deperate response as well. Nowhere in this story does it indicate that any other measures were tried; including having a parent show up; or another trusted adult/teacher. . .whomever.

Or just the tried option of having to stay in a room with a Guard and/or principlal, who as adults; have more patience than a child whose emotions are out of control.

A delivery of fifty-thousand volts to a child; is an unacceptable option. IMHO. . .

98 posted on 11/13/2004 10:57:07 PM PST by cricket (Don't lose your head. . vote Republican. . .)
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To: freepatriot32; All

Let me see if I got this straight, the kid is playing hooky, drunk, and smoking, and the parents are bitching about how the cop hauls the little truant in? I don't care if the cop beat the kid with a club--this lousy parent hasn't got a leg to stand on when it comes to yapping about how their kid is being done wrong.

Typical American perspective that even Freepers look at the cop's behavior before the parents'. Personal responsibility is dead, even here.

It's not like this cop shot the kid. It's not like the cop did wrong, because if the kid ran into the street then he'd be liable for letting her GO, since people would THEN whine about 'evil, unthinking police chases' or 'evil cops who don't even care about these poor kids lost in the city.' It's a TASER, for pete's sake, not a Desert Eagle. She got up. She got into the police car. Her ass is back in school. And maybe next time the little lush won't try to ditch the police!


99 posted on 11/14/2004 1:13:09 AM PST by LibertarianInExile (NO BLOOD FOR CHOCOLATE! Get the UN-ignoring, unilateralist Frogs out of Ivory Coast!)
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To: lucky7; JennysCool

Bump to that. JennysCool doesn't like how our cops do their jobs, we got enough damnyankees telling Floridians about how we don't do things right here already. Park your butt on the couch, JC, and stay home. We have enough whiny do-gooders down here already.


100 posted on 11/14/2004 1:17:30 AM PST by LibertarianInExile (NO BLOOD FOR CHOCOLATE! Get the UN-ignoring, unilateralist Frogs out of Ivory Coast!)
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