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"Red states" that supported President Bush also supported slavery
News Target ^ | November 15, 2004

Posted on 11/15/2004 11:19:28 AM PST by Tumbleweed_Connection

*In case it's hard to read, on the Pre-Civil War Map, the red areas were slave states and the brown areas were territories open to slavery, while the green areas were free states and territories.

*These distinctions eerily correspond to the red states vs. blue states on the 2004 Election Map ~~ i.e., the blue (Kerry) states correspond to the pre-civil-war free states and territories, while the red (Bush) states correspond to what were the slave states and territories.

*To me, the images (and subsequent comments) simply point out that we as a country cannot, or refuse to, face difficult racial issues.

*I think the mentality which allowed certain parts of the country at a certain time in our history to accept the violent subjugation of an entire human race ...

*By using the headline "Free States vs. Slave States", an immediate deception is perpetrated that continues to deceive right through all following commentary. These were philisophical differences in forms of government and policy, not whether or not black people should be free.

*It is so hard for me to understand the wailing coming from the Dems on the slave map issue.

*Blue states versus Red States means nothing!

*1. The republican party (and the dems too) are very much different in character and ideal than they were 140 or so years ago.

*2. Jon Koppenhoefer makes a sensible and compelling argument but I want to focus on the slave/free map.

*The last major battle of the American civil war may well have been over LBJ's great society; we've been fighting continuously for 140 years.

*It would give more seats to California, Florida, Texas, North Carolina and other large and growing states, without taking away the one (minimum) Representative for Wyoming's 400,000 citizens.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: kerrydefeat; red8states; slavery
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1 posted on 11/15/2004 11:19:28 AM PST by Tumbleweed_Connection
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

alaska supported slavery?


2 posted on 11/15/2004 11:20:24 AM PST by camle (keep your mind open and somebody will fill it with something for you))
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
"Red states" that supported President Bush also supported slavery"

Ahhhh that was WAY before my time.

3 posted on 11/15/2004 11:21:24 AM PST by SheLion (President Bush received MORE votes ever in the period of History. The Rats need to get over it.)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

Senator Robert Byrd (D) = KKK Grand Wizard


4 posted on 11/15/2004 11:21:52 AM PST by kx9088
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
And?....

So what?

5 posted on 11/15/2004 11:23:10 AM PST by brewcrew
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
An idiotic argument where liberal excel.
6 posted on 11/15/2004 11:23:14 AM PST by demlosers
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

There were slaves all through the north too...


7 posted on 11/15/2004 11:23:19 AM PST by 2banana (They want to die for Islam and we want to kill them)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

Arizona is a red state. We weren't even in the Union until 1912. I don't believe we supported slavery. And Utah. I know they didn't have slaves over there. But, what do I know. I'm not elite enough.


8 posted on 11/15/2004 11:23:25 AM PST by HungarianGypsy (We are the pirates who don't do anything....)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

Does that include Iowa, Ohio, Indiana, West Virginia, and the litany of Western states that were still territories?


9 posted on 11/15/2004 11:23:32 AM PST by RWR8189 (Its Morning in America Again!)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
"Red states" that supported President Bush also supported slavery
In that case, it's time to coin a new phrase: "Bush Democrats."
10 posted on 11/15/2004 11:23:47 AM PST by counterpunch (The CouNTeRPuNcH Collection - www.counterpunch.us)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

That's really gimped logic by the rats. Democrats were (and are) the slavers. Republicans were the abolishionist party.


11 posted on 11/15/2004 11:23:58 AM PST by axes_of_weezles (Effin Kohn Tedwards)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

Lincoln was a Republican... 'nuff said.


12 posted on 11/15/2004 11:24:01 AM PST by fr11
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
"Red states" that supported President Bush also supported slavery

Yep, and they were run by Democrats at the time, correct?

13 posted on 11/15/2004 11:24:35 AM PST by Ken H
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
I'd read the article, but I'm too busy whipping hugging my ... erm... adopted children.
14 posted on 11/15/2004 11:24:41 AM PST by Nataku X (Lord, please guide President Bush, and please protect our soldiers in Fallujah.)
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To: camle
Iowa, Indiana and Ohio were the Union states that went for Dubya.

Slaves states that went for Kerry were Md. and Del. although both supported the Union (Md. only because Lincoln took put pro-union people in the state government.)

15 posted on 11/15/2004 11:25:00 AM PST by Tribune7
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
That was back when they were

Democrats


16 posted on 11/15/2004 11:25:02 AM PST by OSHA (Anything not forbidden is mandatory.)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

Who wrote this? Carol Simpson?


17 posted on 11/15/2004 11:25:04 AM PST by mewzilla
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

I was wondering why I supported President Bush, and suddenly realized it is because I am an ignorant, racist redneck... Apparently I'm real stupid, too... And I wanna own slaves...

Yeah, I'm warming up to those Democrats...


18 posted on 11/15/2004 11:25:44 AM PST by gridlock (ELIMINATE PERVERSE INCENTIVES)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

I hope that the idiot who came up with this has some Icy Hot handy. They're going to need it when they finish stretching.


19 posted on 11/15/2004 11:26:14 AM PST by SilentServiceCPOWife (In the smiling twilight of the new political morning, the unwashed told their betters to shove it.)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Massachusetts was the first state to embrace slavery in the new World. They sold the Native Americans to the slave traders that took them to Jamaica where they were sold to other slavers. Massachusetts was supportive of slavery for a long time because it supported their shipping interests. So, where is the logic and premise of this article?
20 posted on 11/15/2004 11:26:27 AM PST by vetvetdoug (In memory of T/Sgt. Secundino "Dean" Baldonado, Jarales, NM-KIA Bien Hoa AFB, RVN 1965)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Yup, those pro-slavery Ohioans were real common.

Without dedicated proslavery generals like US Grant and WT Sherman, how could the Confederacy have lasted as long as it did?

The same goes for that bastion of the old Confederacy, North Dakota. Some historians say that the secession of the Dakota territory was the factor that inspired Virginia to finally breakaway, along with fiercely pro-slavery West Virginia.

21 posted on 11/15/2004 11:26:30 AM PST by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Well if they want to go that far back then:

*The Republican Party is the party that won the Civil War and destroyed slavery.

*The Democratic Party split over the position that slavery was a positive good and either supported it outright during the Civil War or undermined efforts to end it.

*From the establishment of Jim Crow segregation at the end of the 19th century until the 1950's, its principal political supporters were in the Democratic Party.
22 posted on 11/15/2004 11:26:44 AM PST by StJacques
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

Excuse me but Oklahoma didn't become a State until 1907 and Arizona was behind us!


23 posted on 11/15/2004 11:27:23 AM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Thanks Oklahomans for giving Pres Bush the win in all our counties!)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

I believe I am correct when I say that there were a great many of the "blue" states that voted for a Democratic President who (1) tried to pack the Supreme Court to get his way, and (2) threw lots of American citizens (who happened to be of Japanese descent) into concentration camps.


24 posted on 11/15/2004 11:27:55 AM PST by chs68
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

Indiana and Kentucky and Virginia and Ohio were Nothern States....


25 posted on 11/15/2004 11:28:08 AM PST by Always Right
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To: Always Right

Not Virginia.


26 posted on 11/15/2004 11:29:02 AM PST by Wneighbor
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

Carole Simpson revisited. More stupidity.


27 posted on 11/15/2004 11:29:03 AM PST by Saundra Duffy (Save Terri Schiavo!!!)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

We also volunteer in great numbers to fight for this great nation at every opportunity.

We also lead the nation in charitable contributions.

We also have a lower cost of living.

We also have less murders every year.

I could go on and on...


28 posted on 11/15/2004 11:29:21 AM PST by L98Fiero
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

Yeah but it was OK when they were the SOLID SOUTH ( back in dem segregation days ) and pullling the DEM lever


29 posted on 11/15/2004 11:29:45 AM PST by uncbob
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

The Western States and Midwest aren't slave states. They were Free Soil country.


30 posted on 11/15/2004 11:29:52 AM PST by Dan from Michigan ("No time for losers, cause we are the champions...of the world!!!")
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

And it was Republicans who freed the slaves.


31 posted on 11/15/2004 11:29:55 AM PST by West Coast Conservative
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

I would venture to say that most racially motivated riots have been in the "blue" states or "blue" metros.


32 posted on 11/15/2004 11:30:25 AM PST by politicalwit (They want your vote... but not your voice.)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

January Surprise: Bush has secret plan to reinstitute Slavery!!!


33 posted on 11/15/2004 11:30:41 AM PST by leftcoastlibertarian
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

It ain't states its Blue BIg Cities

I live in PA and factor out Philly and we is RED


34 posted on 11/15/2004 11:30:42 AM PST by uncbob
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

Who gives a #%*#?!? Man, leftists are the biggest sore losers that ever set foot upon the earth. Get over it, you lost!!!


35 posted on 11/15/2004 11:30:46 AM PST by dougherty (I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free. - Michelangelo)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

Now the blue states promote indentured servitude and treat minorities like objects.

Witness the black man who drove a cab in NYC. A rich, white liberal woman gets into his cab and has him drive her somewhere. She says something bad about Bush and asks him if he's voting for Kerry. He says, no, he's voting for Bush. She goes mental and yells at him all the rest of the way. As she gets out, she is incredibly mean and lets him know that she will MAKE HIM PAY. So she invented false charges against him and the City of NY fined him.

Witness also Judge Janice Brown and Miguel Estrada who were turned into ugly caricatures in cartoons because the liberal establishment cannot stand free thinking. In either case, the bigots of the left said that other people were telling these educated and proven individuals what to think.

Is it any wonder that the libs have lost credibility? That's what the election was all about, not the values votes (which was from the bad exit polling anyway)


36 posted on 11/15/2004 11:30:50 AM PST by saveliberty (Liberal= in need of therapy, but would rather ruin lives of those less fortunate to feel good)
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To: Always Right

Kansas and Nebraska were both free by the beginning of the Civil War as well.

Pesky things, those facts...


37 posted on 11/15/2004 11:30:54 AM PST by HRoarke (Please nominate Hillary!)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

What the hey, I thought that there were only 11 secessionist slave states (let us not forget those Union states, like MD. which were also slave states). I didn't know that slavery was currently extant in the states. Silly me.


38 posted on 11/15/2004 11:31:00 AM PST by Frumious Bandersnatch
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

Liberals have controlled education for at least the last forty years. This is what you get, institutionalized ignorance.


39 posted on 11/15/2004 11:31:45 AM PST by TigersEye (Free speech! It's not just for Democrats anymore!)
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To: Tribune7
"Iowa, Indiana and Ohio were the Union states that went for Dubya."

You left out Missouri, Kentucky, West Virginia, and Kansas Tribune. Now if you meant to write "were the free states that went for Dubya" you would only include Kansas, admitted to the Union as a free state in 1861.
40 posted on 11/15/2004 11:32:01 AM PST by StJacques
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

Ironic isn't that the secession states are now the most patriotic and fly the Stars and Stripes the most


41 posted on 11/15/2004 11:32:02 AM PST by uncbob
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
First of all, Ohio, Indiana, Alaska and a few more didn't support slavery. West Virgina also became a state specifically because it wanted no part of the Confederate states and slavery.
Mainly though the whole thing is specious and one big non-sequiter. By the same logic we can say that because NYC overwhelmingly supported Kerry then it says something about his supporters because during the Civil War there were race riots that killed overa thousand blacks and there was serious talks of NYC seceding Dom the north. We can say that the Salem Witch trials prove that Kerry supporters are superstitious idiots. It a bunch of malarkey. Everywhere in the world, if you go back far enough in the past, you would find signs of bigotry, intolerance, and paternalism. Its just that in today, in America, that can be found in the northeast.
42 posted on 11/15/2004 11:32:16 AM PST by golch1979 ("Captain Sobel, we solute the rank, not the man.")
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

Kansas also was a FREE state. We had quite a border war going on with Missouri and my city, Lawrence, was burned to the ground by William Quantrill and raiders from Missouri.

Me thinks someone needs to check a history book.


43 posted on 11/15/2004 11:32:17 AM PST by KsSunflower
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

That has to be one of the most stupid Op-Ed's I have ever read.


44 posted on 11/15/2004 11:32:19 AM PST by KingPin (Live free or be a democrat.)
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To: Tribune7

My state was called "Bloody Kansas" because it wouldn't go along with the slaves states. The Missouri Border Ruffians took offense to Kansas' opposition to slavery and much bloodshed followed. Kansas was anti-slavery and is positively a red state.


45 posted on 11/15/2004 11:32:20 AM PST by CommerceComet
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Well.....in the 1956 election, the only states that Adlai Stevenson won against Ike were in the Deep South. And what does that tell you? Uh, not much, I guess.
46 posted on 11/15/2004 11:32:23 AM PST by Southside_Chicago_Republican (Hurl the invective!)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Not quite

Map of the division of the states during the Civil War. Blue represents Union states, red represents Confederate states, green represents unaffiliated states and yellow represents states that did not exist until after the War.

47 posted on 11/15/2004 11:32:31 AM PST by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestus globus, inflammare animos)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

the correlation is "eerie" only if you have a demented mind. one look at the maps leaves ND, SD, Iowa, Indiana, Ohio and Maryland as exceptions to this "rule". not much of a correlation unless you also just want to believe WHAT? Fill in the Blank? Ok, i believe that this is nothing more than HS. (that's Horsesh*t)


48 posted on 11/15/2004 11:32:34 AM PST by kralcmot (Duh-uhhhhhhh)
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To: HungarianGypsy
Montana was a slave state as well. Iowa too.

New Hampshire and Wisconsin were Alllllmost slave states, but not quite.

Whatta bunch of garbage. Who thinks of this dreck?

49 posted on 11/15/2004 11:32:36 AM PST by wbill
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
When the States Joined the Union
50 posted on 11/15/2004 11:33:02 AM PST by Time is now (We'll live to see it......or something like it....)
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