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Silenced priest warns of gay crisis
The Washington Times ^ | 11-15-04 | Julia Duin

Posted on 11/15/2004 11:51:23 AM PST by JZelle

Starting today, 290 of the nation's Catholic bishops will meet at the Capitol Hyatt for their yearly business meeting and to tie up loose ends on the massive sexual-abuse crisis that has shaken the U.S. Catholic Church to its core in the past two years. Although it's been less than a year since the church revealed that there were 10,667 cases of abuse c

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abusivepriests; catholic; gaypriests; homosexual; homosexualagenda; homosexualpriests
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This just isn't right.
1 posted on 11/15/2004 11:51:23 AM PST by JZelle
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To: JZelle
It wasn't right in this post either

Silenced priest warns of gay crisis

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1280262/posts

2 posted on 11/15/2004 11:54:36 AM PST by Tula Git
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To: Tula Git

Say, maybe there's more to homosexuality than loving couples wanting to get married... more than stupid people harboring unreasoned hatred for homosexuals. What do the world's OTHER great religions have to say about this?


3 posted on 11/15/2004 12:05:14 PM PST by ReadyNow (When you see the eye, expect a lie!)
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To: JZelle
Perhaps they will figure out that married Priests may not be such a bad thing.
4 posted on 11/15/2004 12:09:39 PM PST by elizabetty
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: elizabetty

Married priests would prevent homosexual liasons and pedophilia how, exactly?


6 posted on 11/15/2004 12:18:29 PM PST by Wicket (God bless and protect our troops and God bless America)
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To: Wicket

It would create a hostile environment for gays and pedophiles.


7 posted on 11/15/2004 12:22:20 PM PST by Little Ray (I'm a reactionary, hirsute, gun-owning, knuckle dragging, Christian Neanderthal and proud of it!)
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To: JZelle

From the article:

" If all homosexual clergy were to leave the U.S. Catholic Church now, the church would lose one-third of its bishops as well,"

That's perhaps half the number who ought to go.


8 posted on 11/15/2004 12:24:31 PM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: elizabetty

Did you even read the article before posting that?


9 posted on 11/15/2004 12:37:09 PM PST by Rutles4Ever ("...upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.")
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To: elizabetty
Perhaps they will figure out that married Priests may not be such a bad thing.

How would heterosexual marriage solve the problems of homosexuals and pedophiles? People with those mental illnesses OUTSIDE the church have the ability to marry, and it hasn't solved their problems.

10 posted on 11/15/2004 12:37:27 PM PST by ElkGroveDan (Santorum 2008)
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To: Little Ray

Um... no. A hostile environment for gays and pedophiles involves summarily de-frocking them all and making sure they never set foot inside a rectory or seminary again.

That's a hostile environment.


11 posted on 11/15/2004 12:38:19 PM PST by Rutles4Ever ("...upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.")
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To: sitetest

Whatever it takes. Clean it out. It's an act of mercy toward all the faithful priests who are getting punished privately and publicly with the others...


12 posted on 11/15/2004 12:40:24 PM PST by Rutles4Ever ("...upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.")
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To: elizabetty

I have to agree with you on that. Regardless of what the church wants to think, a priest is also a man. He shares the desires for companionship that God gave us all.


13 posted on 11/15/2004 12:43:42 PM PST by CWOJackson
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To: ReadyNow
What OTHER great religions?

Hinduism? A polytheistic mishmosh of hundreds of cults worshiping just about anything one can imagine?

Islam? A death cult founded by a pedophile warlord two thousand years after Judaism that openly plagiarizes the latter. Since Buddhism is nothing more than an offshoot of Hinduism (a compilation of the nightmares of aboriginies most likely on drugs) I don't think I care much about what they have to tell me of homosexuality. Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism and thus we come down to one source for the Truth about homosexuality. It is not to be accepted. It is what it is. At best a psychological illness that needs treatment. Once condoned by a society it spreads. Homosexuals create new homosexuals through molestation and pop-culture. The Bible tells us the truth about this perversion. We ignore it at our peril.
14 posted on 11/15/2004 12:56:29 PM PST by mercy
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: Rutles4Ever
Yes, but a bunch an exclusive masculine organization attracts them. When you get enough gays in the organization they take it over and pervert it.

An organization of family oriented folks will be about as accommodating to gays as the Boy Scouts...
16 posted on 11/15/2004 1:01:30 PM PST by Little Ray (I'm a reactionary, hirsute, gun-owning, knuckle dragging, Christian Neanderthal and proud of it!)
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To: Little Ray
Yes, but a bunch an exclusive masculine organization attracts them.

The Boy Scout has been pretty effective at banning them, and there isn't a requirement that scoutmasters should be married!

17 posted on 11/15/2004 1:04:41 PM PST by Pyro7480 (Sub tuum praesidium confugimus, sancta Dei Genitrix.... sed a periculis cunctis libera nos semper...)
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To: All
The way I understand it is The Holy Spirit guides the Church....I would tend to think that if a celibate priest really prays diligently to The Spirit, The Grace of God will enable him to be celibate. I believe in my heart that most priests remain celibate and many of those who fail confess their sins and become one again with Jesus Christ, it's those who continue to fail who should question their vocations and maybe seek a dispensation from their vows.

Molesting little children is a different story though. These men should be forgiven if they seek forgiveness, and then told that they must leave the priesthood....

Father Haley is right in what he is doing. God Bless him!

18 posted on 11/15/2004 1:06:12 PM PST by Old Phone Man
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To: Pyro7480

Yup. But they banned the gays from being Scoutmasters. The RC Church can't get away with that.
And you have to admit that the membership of the BSA is strongly hetero..


19 posted on 11/15/2004 1:08:33 PM PST by Little Ray (I'm a reactionary, hirsute, gun-owning, knuckle dragging, Christian Neanderthal and proud of it!)
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To: JZelle

Read Goodbye, Good Men by Michael Rose. It explains a lot about this subject.


20 posted on 11/15/2004 1:12:04 PM PST by Andy'smom
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To: Little Ray
The RC Church can't get away with that. And you have to admit that the membership of the BSA is strongly hetero..

It certainly can get away with it. It's just that most bishops don't have the guts to. I'd say that most members of the Catholic Church are strongly hetero too.

21 posted on 11/15/2004 1:12:46 PM PST by Pyro7480 (Sub tuum praesidium confugimus, sancta Dei Genitrix.... sed a periculis cunctis libera nos semper...)
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To: JZelle
"Father Haley says his only crime is his insistence that homosexual priests, not solely pedophiles, are at the root of the sexual-abuse crisis. The Catholic priesthood is demoralized, he says, by groups of homosexual clerics who control who gets admitted to seminary, which men get nominated for bishop and which priests get the plum parishes.

" Based on his 17 years in the priesthood, he estimates that 60 percent of the Diocese of Arlington's 127 diocesan priests are homosexuals, which is high compared with national estimates of 30 percent to 50 percent from other authorities on the priesthood.

"Psychotherapist Richard Sipe, a former Catholic priest who has written and spoken widely on the priesthood, says 15 percent of homosexual priests are sexually active.

"If all homosexual clergy were to leave the U.S. Catholic Church now, the church would lose one-third of its bishops as well, added Mr. Sipe, whose new book on priestly sexual abuse dating back to the fourth century, comes out Nov. 15.

The problem with this report is it focuses on Roman Catholicism's problems. Forty years plus of clinical experience convinced me that the incidence of homosexuality was quite high in the Protestant clergy. For that matter, the incidence of homosexuality in psychiatrists was about as high or higher depending on where you took your statistics.

The other problem is the insistence of many that this is a "pedophile" problem. It is not. The ultimately desired sexual object by many male homosexuals is a pubescent or prepubescent male.

The final problem is that many, but not all, homosexuals basically believe they are "normal." What they mean by that is usually unclear but usually man and boy relationships are not seen as pathological. This is where the elites in the clergy as well as in my profession fail to understand the issue for the average person.

The average male heterosexual has a hard time agreeing that homosexuality is normal because sodomy and fellatio between men is not seen as biologically normal. Further, the relatively low prevalence (4% or less) of homosexuality at any given time also augurs for abnormality. Finally, the average heterosexual male does not experience "fear" of homosexuality (a Freudian concept) but rather disgust. Renaming homosexuality as "Gay" and ascribing critics as "homophobes" is a political, not a scientific, argument.

Like most serious psychological problems the afflicted deny the existence of pathology. This seemed avant guarde and reasonable when both the American Psychological and Psychiatric Association declared homosexuality as "normal" and above any kind of diagnostic description; however, since these decisions were made by political means many, if not most, mental health professionals will indicate (if pressed and not exposed to publicity) that homosexuality is a disorder of some form or another.

Recent election experience to the contrary, the purpose of homosexuals marrying for the most part is to force heterosexuals to see them as "normal." By making homosexual marriage a societal requirement, the elite thinkers in the radical homosexual movement hope to cement in the public mind they are indeed "normal." Ditto for all the "sex education" efforts in our public schools and other post-modern, political arguments supposedly proving homosexuality is "normal" and accepted by society.

I am smart enough to see some of the problems, but not smart enough to see the solutions. It would seem reasonable that no matter what the average heterosexual person is taught or forced to believe it is unlikely such a person will accept homosexuality as "normal" on an intuitive and reasoned basis.

22 posted on 11/15/2004 1:20:49 PM PST by shrinkermd
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To: Rutles4Ever

I did and I have an opinion. Does attacking my opinion make you feel better about yourself?


23 posted on 11/15/2004 1:41:01 PM PST by elizabetty
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To: Wicket

I did not say it would solve anything. I simply stated an Opinion that married Priests might be good for the church.


24 posted on 11/15/2004 1:46:43 PM PST by elizabetty
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To: ElkGroveDan

What did I say it would solve? I stated a long held personal Opinion.


25 posted on 11/15/2004 1:49:53 PM PST by elizabetty
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To: elizabetty

Of course you implied that marriage would solve the problem.

If celibacy in general were causing this kind of abuse then you would see a far greater amount of priests abusing teenage GIRLS and women (or half anyway, if you use the 50% cited in this article). But the fact is that 98% of this problem is homosexual pedophilia.


26 posted on 11/15/2004 1:54:51 PM PST by ElkGroveDan (Santorum 2008)
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: CWOJackson
I have to agree with you on that. Regardless of what the church wants to think, a priest is also a man. He shares the desires for companionship that God gave us all.

Thank you for that. Not sure why stating a personal opinion on this board can cause some to attack you. Many Popes and Priests were married until the 11th century and the practice was ended due to monetary, not religious reasons.

28 posted on 11/15/2004 1:59:12 PM PST by elizabetty
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: elizabetty

You're very welcome. You have surely noticed by now that there are conservatives and "true" conservatives, Christians and "true" Christians. The Uber-types tend to get very defensive of their "true" beliefs.


30 posted on 11/15/2004 2:01:25 PM PST by CWOJackson
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Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: ReadyNow
There is only one great religion and it is followed by all who adhere to the teachings of Jesus Christ. All other religions are perversions of the truth and mere pretenders to the throne of God Almighty.

As for the 'stupid people' and their 'unreasoned hatred', all I can say is that any lawbreaker, be he hetero- or homosexual, is assured of eternal Hell fire if he refuses to repent and reject his sinful nature, thereby denying the efficacy of Jesus Christ's atoning work on the cross. This rejection of Jesus Christ's sacrificial death is the unpardonable sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ warned pilgrims to take the narrow way, all other avenues are dead ends.

32 posted on 11/15/2004 2:27:17 PM PST by O.C. - Old Cracker (When the cracker gets old, you wind up with Old Cracker. - O.C.)
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To: Wicket
Married priests would prevent homosexual liasons and pedophilia how, exactly?

In retrospect, it was poor judgement (IMVVHO) to dismiss any priest or religious who married after V II.

Married men obviously would not prevent homosexual liasons. But if the ten thousand or more Catholic heterosexual priests who left the priesthood because they married a woman were still priests (or, by now, seminary directors and bishops), the overwhelming influence of gay priests would be both lessened and more in th open when and where it occurred.

33 posted on 11/15/2004 2:33:57 PM PST by Jim Noble (FR Iraq policy debate begins 11/3/04. Pass the word.)
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To: shrinkermd
Recent election experience to the contrary, the purpose of homosexuals marrying for the most part is to force heterosexuals to see them as "normal."

Actually, I think the purpose is to force themselves to see what is abnormal as normal.

Much as we like to think that we are the intended audience for a lot of acting out and acting up, the gays themselves have issues with just how normal they are.

Lots of what we see today is just straightforward reaction formation and it's not about us at all.

34 posted on 11/15/2004 2:39:18 PM PST by Jim Noble (FR Iraq policy debate begins 11/3/04. Pass the word.)
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To: Pyro7480
there isn't a requirement that scoutmasters should be married!

No, but most of them are. I had two that were single between 1961 and 1968, and both were predatory homosexual pedophiles.

35 posted on 11/15/2004 2:40:56 PM PST by Jim Noble (FR Iraq policy debate begins 11/3/04. Pass the word.)
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To: Tula Git; JZelle

the thread you posted is also a duplicate
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1280262/posts

here is the original

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1280247/posts


36 posted on 11/15/2004 3:44:29 PM PST by Coleus (God gave us the right to life and self preservation and a right to defend ourselves and families)
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To: Wicket

Agree. Pedophilia is Pedophilia married or not. That's a very silly argument.


37 posted on 11/15/2004 3:58:33 PM PST by cubreporter
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To: Coleus

LOL..thanks


38 posted on 11/15/2004 4:03:04 PM PST by Tula Git
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To: elizabetty
But letting priests marry will not discourage homosexuals from entering the priesthood.

You've heard of the Village People. Their songs revolve around "In the Navy", "YMCA" ... and dress as cops and construction workers. They may as well have dressed as priests. Homosexuals congregate in areas with a heavy male presence.

Homosexuals enter the priesthood to prey on other so-inclined males ... and to prey on young male Christian followers. It's insidious and the Catholic Church should be far more agressive in stopping this behavior.

39 posted on 11/15/2004 4:07:42 PM PST by BunnySlippers (George W. Bush is our president ... Get over it!)
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To: elizabetty

I think implied in your comment was that if only these guys, their testosterone raging, could marry women, it would end the problem of homosexuality and pedophilia in the church. Please accept my apologies if I was mistaken.

I am not a Catholic, but it is scriptural (Paul's writings) that some are called by God to be celibate, and there certainly is historical precedent for folks who are successfully celibate.

You may be able to argue that some folks enter the priesthood because they are not comfortable with their sexuality and hope to avoid the issue.

Christian faith enables individuals to make choices and to overcome sin. Destructive sexual behaviors, though addictive, are not uncontrollable (unless, I suppose, you're a rabbit or a tomcat.) Even those with homosexual or pedophilia tendencies can make a conscious decision, with God's help, not to indulge in their fantasies.

It is up to the Catholics, certainly, whether they want priests to be able to marry. I understand that the Catholic church is accepting some who are already married. And it might change the mix of folks willing to go into the priesthood. However, celibacy does not turn a person into a pedophile, nor the ability to marry prevent pedophilia.


40 posted on 11/15/2004 6:15:41 PM PST by Wicket (God bless and protect our troops and God bless America)
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To: Jim Noble
In retrospect, it was poor judgement ....to dismiss any priest or religious who married after V II.

I knew one of those men, who died just last year. He was still feeling his welts from those days. He said he was treated very badly by the Church, assurances having been given previously. He married a nun of his acquaintance, and they remained married even though he had to give up his faculties and she had to leave her order.

Both of them, however, remained observant Catholics, he until his dying day.

41 posted on 11/15/2004 6:23:21 PM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: FrankWild
Not if Justice Souter gets his way. And what is it about Souter.....

Talk to me. What's he trying to do to the BSA?

42 posted on 11/15/2004 6:29:31 PM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: lentulusgracchus
He said he was treated very badly by the Church, assurances having been given previously. He married a nun of his acquaintance, and they remained married even though he had to give up his faculties and she had to leave her order

I'm not Catholic, so take it for what it's worth-but the horror bishops felt about the men who married dwarfed the horror over the child molesters.

I know a priest who anounced his intention to marry in the morning and was out of his house that night-the only place he had to live.

There appeared to be a visceral revulsion about these men (who were doing a very normal thing, albeit breaking a promise) that just did not exist with regard to the molesters.

To me, this bespeaks an imbalance in the appreciation of the human sexual faculty, which undervalues marriage (the epitome of heterosexual natural design) and overvalues disdain for marriage-which may have many roots, but one of which is, obviously, homosexuality.

I think it would have been prudent to allow marriage back then, and I think it would be prudent today.

43 posted on 11/15/2004 6:41:41 PM PST by Jim Noble (FR Iraq policy debate begins 11/3/04. Pass the word.)
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To: Jim Noble
The other possibility is that this outrage over priests getting married comes from homosexual priests who are threatened by the idea of having heterosexual married priests -- their natural enemy, if you will -- in their midst.

Just a speculation, but it may be that the gay underground may be a lot bigger and more muscular than we've given it credit for, and it may constitute an authentic cabal against the rest of society in some "close shops".

I don't claim to know all the equities, but the selective indignation of the bishops is suspicious-sounding to me.

44 posted on 11/15/2004 7:00:01 PM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: elizabetty
Perhaps they will figure out that married Priests may not be such a bad thing.

Marriage has really worked well for all these Protestants, hasn't it?

45 posted on 11/15/2004 7:50:27 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham
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To: elizabetty

many child molesters are married men.


46 posted on 11/15/2004 8:01:39 PM PST by Coleus (God gave us the right to life and self preservation and a right to defend ourselves and families)
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To: elizabetty
Many Popes and Priests were married until the 11th century and the practice was ended due to monetary, not religious reasons.

The vast majority were not, just like the Apostles. Suggest you actually do some studying on the subject of the discipline of celibacy and the priesthood; starting with Melchisedech in the Old Testament, then research Canons XXVII and XXXIII of the Council of Elvira 302 AD, the mutual agreement of both spouses to adopt a life of lex continentiae prior to ordination, etc., before stating an opinion, however sincere, that is built upon a foundation of revisionist history, rather than facts.

47 posted on 11/15/2004 8:05:46 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham
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To: Wicket
Married priests would prevent homosexual liasons and pedophilia how, exactly?

Figure it out.
Homosexuality is known to thrive in prisons situations where men are deprived of normal heterosexual relationships.

Normal sex drives plus lack of normal sexual relationships tends to result in abnormal sexual behavior.

48 posted on 11/15/2004 8:08:33 PM PST by Jorge
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To: Little Ray
But they banned the gays from being Scoutmasters. The RC Church can't get away with that.

The Vatican banned the ordination of homosexuals in February of 1961. Long before the BSA got around to even consider implementing a no homo policy. What is needed are obedient bishops who will comply with Romes' directive and the dismissal of those who thumb their noses at the Holy See.

Advancement to religious vows and ordination should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty, since for them the common life and the priestly ministry would constitute serious dangers.

49 posted on 11/15/2004 8:13:49 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham
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To: Jim Noble
But if the ten thousand or more Catholic heterosexual priests who left the priesthood because they married a woman were still priests

Any idea how many of those "ten thousand or more" who left to get married ended up getting divorced?

50 posted on 11/15/2004 8:17:55 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham
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