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The ACLU wins one against the Boy Scouts
Indianapolis Star ^ | 11/16/2004 | MIKE ROBINSON AP

Posted on 11/16/2004 5:06:33 AM PST by Captal de Buch

The Democrats win one for a change.

Seething about their openly gay constituents being denied access to the Boy Scouts the legal arm of the left wing, the ACLU, has continued to dog the youth organization.

In an effort to force the Scouts to put homosexual predators into leadership positions the ACLU has sued Department of Defense, the Department of Housing and Urban Development, and the Chicago Board of Education.

It looks like they aren't going to stop until they can get their hands on those kinds.

From the Indy Star.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DEFENSE_BOY_SCOUTS?SITE=ININS&SECTION=US&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Pentagon to cut off Boy Scouts from bases

By MIKE ROBINSON Associated Press Writer

CHICAGO (AP) -- The Pentagon has agreed to warn military bases worldwide not to directly sponsor Boy Scout troops, partially resolving claims that the government has engaged in religious discrimination by supporting a group that requires members to believe in God.

The settlement announced Monday is part of a series of legal challenges in recent years over how closely the government should be aligned with the Boy Scouts of America, a venerable organization that boasts a membership of more than 3.2 million members.

[b] Civil liberties advocates have set their sights on the organization's policies because the group bans openly gay scout leaders [/b] and compels members to swear an oath of duty to God. The ACLU believes that direct government sponsorship of such a program amounts to discrimination.

The Pentagon said it has long had a rule against sponsorship of non-federal organizations and denied the rule had been violated. But it agreed to send a message to posts worldwide warning them not to sponsor Boy Scout troops or other such groups.

The rule does not prevent service members from leading Scout troops unofficially on their own time, and Scouts will still be able to hold meetings on areas of military bases where civilian organizations are allowed to hold events.

The settlement does not resolve other ACLU claims involving government spending that benefits the Boy Scouts, such as money used to prepare a Virginia military base for the Boy Scout Jamboree and grants used by state and local governments to benefit the Boy Scouts, Schwartz said.

He said the Pentagon spends $2 million every year to prepare the Virginia base for the jamboree, held once every four years. He said the Defense Department also makes annual allocations of $100,000 to support Boy Scout units on military bases overseas and $100,000 to improve Boy Scout properties, such as summer camps.

Attorney Marcia Berman, who represented the Defense Department, declined to comment on the settlement Monday. But Justice Department spokesman Charles Miller said the message that will be sent to bases represents "a clarification of an existing rule that DOD personnel cannot be involved in an official capacity." The original ACLU lawsuit named as defendants the Department of Defense, the Department of Housing and Urban Development, and the Chicago Board of Education. The schools settled, agreeing not to engage in official sponsorship of scouting activities.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aclu; ban; boyscouts; bsa; bsalist; dod; gay; homosexual; religious; scouts
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1 posted on 11/16/2004 5:06:33 AM PST by Captal de Buch
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To: Captal de Buch

Where is GW on this? This needs to be on his agenda to take care of.


2 posted on 11/16/2004 5:10:15 AM PST by TheBattman (Islam - the cult of Satan)
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To: Captal de Buch

The AC'PU' will only make the Boy Scouts stronger and more popular.


3 posted on 11/16/2004 5:11:04 AM PST by bear11 (God saved the Republic!)
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To: Captal de Buch
The ACLU wants all scouts to have an Islam Celebration and Sensitivity Day, too.


4 posted on 11/16/2004 5:12:20 AM PST by Diogenesis ("Then I say unto you, send men to summon ... worms. And let us go to Fallujah to collect heads.")
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To: bear11

Another example of what the blue states don't get about the red states.


5 posted on 11/16/2004 5:12:35 AM PST by GOP_Proud (Can I git me some morals here?)
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To: Captal de Buch

That's why Arlen Sphincter is the wrong choice for the Judiciary Committee.


6 posted on 11/16/2004 5:12:54 AM PST by Time is now (We'll live to see it......or something like it....)
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To: Diogenesis

their job is to destroy the USA ...... and they are in league with the communist and socialist to do it.....


7 posted on 11/16/2004 5:13:13 AM PST by Gibtx (pajamahadeen call to arms.....)
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To: Captal de Buch

Another example of the Communist ACLU trying to destroy anything that teaches our children the correct values.


8 posted on 11/16/2004 5:13:33 AM PST by fredhead ("Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants." William Penn)
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To: Captal de Buch

After the blue states secede, let's make sure there is no ACLU in the red states.


9 posted on 11/16/2004 5:18:59 AM PST by atomicweeder
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To: Captal de Buch

May we who are Christians demand our government not engage itself in official sponsorship of THEIR agendas?

If "our" government can neither sponsor (represent) the will of the majority nor sponsor (represent) the dictates of a minority, what good is government altogether but to collect and spent tax monies?


10 posted on 11/16/2004 5:20:38 AM PST by azhenfud ("He who is always looking up seldom finds others' lost change...")
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To: Captal de Buch

This, of course, is the same ACLU that had to return over $1 million in grants to the government because they refused to promise they wouldn't hire anyone that was on a terrorist watch list.


11 posted on 11/16/2004 5:23:00 AM PST by 4woodenboats (We don't want effeminate playboys running this country, we have George 'W'hoopass Bush!)
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To: TheBattman

Homosexuals are attracted to any and all male dominated organizations.

The Boy Scouts, like the Catholic priests, will be inundated with homosexuals if the ACLU has its way. It will surely end the Boy Scouts as we know it.

The ACLU must know this, so why do they keep at it?


12 posted on 11/16/2004 5:23:56 AM PST by Noachian (A Democrat, by definition, is a Socialist.)
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: Captal de Buch

The FREAKS aided by the anti-American, anti-liberty ACLU have gone to far this time... Something has got to be done!


14 posted on 11/16/2004 5:27:48 AM PST by odoso (Millions for charity, but not one penny for tribute!)
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: Captal de Buch

The irony here is great, because the nation's premier 'military base', West Point, sponsors Boy Scout Troop #1, for the sons of the officers and enlisted who run the USMA. Has done so for the better part of 100 years.

I discovered this on a trip to the USMA. You can go to the museum near the Visitor's Center, and they have a display case showing the easily-recognizable BSA khaki uniform with the Troop number, a single "1", on the deltoid. Very impressive.

[BTW this was maybe the best vacation I ever had, taking my eighth-grade son out to the USMA on a football weekend (Air Force won) in the fall two years ago. The prettiest campus on earth, and the whole school is more suffused with an atmosphere of morality and love of God than even a 'religious' university such as Notre Dame. FReepers especially will love this place.]

Back to the real world: This ACLU action is disgraceful, showing how the gays have no perspective, and no sense of fair play. Only seeking to satisfy themselves. They have no business being around scouts for that reason alone, never mind the perverted stuff.

The homos can not win this battle. Support your local BSA troop and district.


16 posted on 11/16/2004 5:30:40 AM PST by caddie
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To: Captal de Buch
A Scout Is Reverent.

If the ACLU thinks they can take down the BSA, they are sadly mistaken. Churches ought to be the main sponsors of scouting, anyway. My boys are Cub Scouts (one will be a Boy Scout in 2 yrs) and our HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL troop is sponsored by a presbyterian church.

17 posted on 11/16/2004 5:32:31 AM PST by UsnDadof8
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To: Captal de Buch
I don't know what the practice is regarding "sponsorship" of Boy Scouts or other groups by government bases. Just giving this a quick legal analysis, though, I would argue that forbidding the government to sponsor groups with a "religious" component, but sponsoring other groups without such a "religious" dimension, is clearly a discrimination AGAINST religion. (Just like Bush's faith-based initiative: my understanding is that Bush is seeking to "level the playing field" by allowing ALL groups, religious as well as secular, to receive government funds for their "charitable" work.) The danger of discrimination against the religious is much, much greater than any danger of a government "establishment" of religion. I thought the ACLU was in the business it's in to prevent discrimination against persons based on their beliefs.

On a personal level, of course, I am disgusted beyond words - or rather beyond words which I am allowed to use on this site.

Hey, if the ACLU wants a fat, juicy target for a government "establishment" of religion, I've got one. A federal holiday, signed into law by Ronald Reagan, named for an American citizen (Columbus was not an "American," and there's no longer a "Washington's Birthday" holiday, merely "Presidents' Day.") This holiday commemorates a CHRISTIAN MINISTER who used the moral authority of his religion to bring fundamental changes to American society. Oh my! Religious groups influencing the government! Isn't that what the liberals are afraid of?

So why is the ACLU not stampeding, immediately, to get rid of Martin Luther King Day?

Don't get me wrong, please. I think we SHOULD commemorate Dr. King. Without going into detail, I think at his best moments he exemplified some of the best qualities of "the American spirit." He gave his life rather than give in to violence or hate. (Wouldn't politics be transformed if we judged people on their BEST moments at least as much as we did based on their worst ones?) Dr. King's legacy is not my point.

But his actions didn't take place in a vacuum. Again, the term "moral authority" comes to mind.

So, if the ACLU sees the "danger" in a base sponsoring a Boy Scout troop, why do they not consider this holiday an impermissible establishment of religion?

My point is the absolute hypocrisy of the ACLU. If you hate Christianity, be up front about it. Don't hide behind legal principles that you don't even follow.

But the more they pull these stunts, the more the US turns red. Literally and figuratively.

If anyone has examples of the ACLU defending Christians I'd love to hear about it.
18 posted on 11/16/2004 5:32:40 AM PST by cvq3842
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To: Diogenesis
The ACLU wants all scouts to have an Islam Celebration and Sensitivity Day, too.

New merit badges -

Killing infidels

Bomb making

Raping

Beheading

Airborne to all members of ACLU - "DROP DEAD"

19 posted on 11/16/2004 5:36:13 AM PST by airborne (God bless and keep our fallen heroes.)
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To: cvq3842

Very well stated.
Thank you


20 posted on 11/16/2004 5:36:24 AM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Dan Rather called Saddam "Mister President and President Bush "bush")
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To: Noachian
The ACLU must know this, so why do they keep at it?

They seek to destroy America!

21 posted on 11/16/2004 5:38:25 AM PST by airborne (God bless and keep our fallen heroes.)
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran

Thanks.

Really, I am heartsick.

What kind of world do these people want?


22 posted on 11/16/2004 5:45:33 AM PST by cvq3842
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To: Captal de Buch

Four years ago, I took a group of Scouts to an international jamborette at Blair Athol, Scotland. It was a wake up call. Only the USA and the Philippines have “boys only” Scouting. The guys were trying to hit on two gorgeous blonds from Denmark, only to find they were a lesbian couple. I held a breakout group where we discussed differences between the Scout Oath and Scout Law in the various countries. Most had taken “God” and “reverence” out. So sad.

We can’t let them win.


23 posted on 11/16/2004 5:48:02 AM PST by FatherofFive
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To: Noachian
The ACLU must know this, so why do they keep at it?

Because they hate religion and will do what they can to destroy it

24 posted on 11/16/2004 5:53:38 AM PST by Mo1 (I'm back to hating Democrats .)
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To: Captal de Buch
If you have an ACLU member as a relative or friend, whatever you do don't leave him or her alone with young children.

These people simply cannot be trusted.

25 posted on 11/16/2004 5:58:05 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Captal de Buch

We also have a Christian Commander and Chief

Who can take care of this in one fell swoop


The ACLU should sue the govt for installing a Christian president and demand his removal
as this also violates the ACLUs law ...the Separation of church and state...

It is the ACLU's law.....

Because there is no such wording in our constitution....The so called "Separation of Church and State" does not exist

For the DOD to honor the ACLU's claims is dishonest...the ACLU does not run America....

or does it?

President Bush could fix this if he so chooses...

This is exactly the kind of issue that garnered GW the number of popular votes he got

America will back him up on this if he chooses to put the ACLU in their place...

which is somewhere in Soviet Russia or China...as they have no business in the USA

imo


26 posted on 11/16/2004 6:00:39 AM PST by joesnuffy ("The merit of our Constitution was, not that it promotes democracy, but checks it." Horatio Seymour)
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To: Captal de Buch

bttt


27 posted on 11/16/2004 7:00:21 AM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: muawiyah

28 posted on 11/16/2004 7:06:24 AM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Captal de Buch
Seething about their openly gay constituents being denied access to the Boy Scouts the legal arm of the left wing, the ACLU, has continued to dog the youth organization. In an effort to force the Scouts to put homosexual predators into leadership positions the ACLU has sued...

Freedom of Association is an unalienable right. Sorry ACLU.

29 posted on 11/16/2004 7:10:59 AM PST by FreeReign
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To: Captal de Buch

ACLU has come out strong for pedophiles, homsexual and heterosexual, and their "right" to molest children. It is one time I totally agree with BOR.


30 posted on 11/16/2004 7:14:41 AM PST by Dante3
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Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: cvq3842
If anyone has examples of the ACLU defending Christians I'd love to hear about it.

They have defended obnoxious street preachers in Salt Lake City when they want to yell at Latter-day Saints (Mormons) attending their general conference, confront them on church-owned private property and desecrate sacred items in public.

Does that count?

32 posted on 11/16/2004 7:19:12 AM PST by TChris (You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.)
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To: TChris

That's the closest I've heard . . .


33 posted on 11/16/2004 7:25:06 AM PST by cvq3842
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To: Captal de Buch
I was out with my Boy Scouts last weekend at the Area Boy Scout camp McKee for a weekend campout. A great place to say the least. One thing that really hit me though is the answer I received when I ask how the plans for a swimming pool was coming. I was told because of the GAY activism that corporate sponsors had pretty much pulled out and that they could not build it. Sad story. The GAYs will not stop until they take this great organization down.
34 posted on 11/16/2004 7:32:42 AM PST by reagandemo (The battle is near are you ready for the sacrifice?)
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To: Captal de Buch

BTTT!

Yeah, it's a fee country. Just keep those religious ideas to yourself, not in public, not with your children, not anywhere near anyone else. "Free" means in your mind only, and even then the liberals want to know what you are thinking, as in "hate crimes".


35 posted on 11/16/2004 7:51:14 AM PST by shellshocked
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To: reagandemo

What can the general public do for the Scouts? I mean, volunteer is one thing, but in what capacity? What do the Scouts need in terms of volunteers? How can we support and strengthen the Scouts?


36 posted on 11/16/2004 7:52:37 AM PST by shellshocked
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To: shellshocked

My suggestion is to call your local scout council and ask them where you could best help them. Our local council puts our a newsletter and each year they have a wish list section. This section is a listing of items which they need such as office equipment and supplies. NOTE do not go through your local United Way to help the Scouts. Go direct.


37 posted on 11/16/2004 8:16:02 AM PST by reagandemo (The battle is near are you ready for the sacrifice?)
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To: Captal de Buch

Seems to me the ALCU is taking the responsibility for the safety of these boy scouts in their own hands. First raped child sues for damages, watch the ALCU deny all accountability.

And watch them pay till they bleed...


38 posted on 11/16/2004 8:39:33 AM PST by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: Captal de Buch

Am I correct that not one stinking dime of my tax dollars goes to this athiest Democrat organization, the ACLU? Or do I need to contact my congresscritters ASAP?


39 posted on 11/16/2004 8:42:11 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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Comment #40 Removed by Moderator

To: bear11
The AC'PU' will only make the Boy Scouts stronger and more popular.

BUMP to that.

As long as the right of military families to form Boy Scout Troops is not taken away, this is not as big a deal as it appears.

Like religion in America, the independence of the Boy Scouts will become its strength.

As the negative effect of government affiliation with so many institutions becomes more evident (public schools, higher education, government welfare), those institutions that are free of the corrupting effect of affiliation will shine.

41 posted on 11/16/2004 9:23:24 AM PST by happygrl
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To: Captal de Buch

The ACLU issues a Fatwah on the BSA. Great. Did the aclu endorse Kerry?


42 posted on 11/16/2004 10:06:15 AM PST by searchandrecovery (No clever ideas in over: 3 days.)
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To: Captal de Buch
Here is the bottom line:

The Pentagon said it has long had a rule against sponsorship of non-federal organizations and denied the rule had been violated. But it agreed to send a message to posts worldwide warning them not to sponsor Boy Scout troops or other such groups.

The rule does not prevent service members from leading Scout troops unofficially on their own time, and Scouts will still be able to hold meetings on areas of military bases where civilian organizations are allowed to hold events.

The ACLU achieved nothing, but MSM wants to inflame conservatives with this.

43 posted on 11/16/2004 10:10:20 AM PST by Magnum44 (Terrorism is a disease, precise application of superior force is the ONLY cure)
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To: Captal de Buch

The ACLU is still defending NAMBLA.


44 posted on 11/16/2004 10:12:34 AM PST by Beckwith (John Kerry is now a kept man . . .)
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To: shanscom

Unfortunately this is the same incrementalism that the anti-gun crowd uses - little steps over time adds up to a total loss of a right/what's right.


45 posted on 11/16/2004 10:16:44 AM PST by TheBattman (Islam - the cult of Satan)
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To: Captal de Buch; ForGod'sSake; bert; Mudboy Slim; FBD; BraveMan; scholar
"By MIKE ROBINSON Associated Press Writer"

Well shazzam!!
Had someone *read* me this while I covered my eyes it'd have been a slam dunk to guess the flake who wrote this bilge represented The Associated Quisling.

OK, the *betting* window's now open.
I'm [read: the "hose"] giving 4:1 odds the quisling fudgepacker writing this crap's as queer as a $3 bill.
Which of course makes this simply another [lousy] example of agenda driven -- albeit *stealth* -- activism masquerading as "news".

...any *takers*? :o)

46 posted on 11/16/2004 10:19:41 AM PST by Landru (Indulgences: 2 for a buck.)
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To: Landru
"...the quisling fudgepacker writing this crap's as queer as a $3 bill."

You do have a way with words, my FRiend...but I still ain't takin' the bet...MUD

47 posted on 11/16/2004 10:38:16 AM PST by Mudboy Slim (RE-IMPEACH the HildaBeast's Hubby!!)
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To: Captal de Buch
"If a State refused to let religious groups use facilities open to others, then it would demonstrate not neutrality but hostility toward religion." - Board of Education v. Mergens
48 posted on 11/16/2004 12:13:52 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Captal de Buch

For those who need reminding:
During the first years of existence, the Civil Liberties Bureau had a close relationship with the Communist Party, but by 1940 co-founder, Roger Baldwin, became disenchanted with it and removed the communist members from the board of the ACLU. The ACLU continues to have a reputation as being a leftist organization, but in fact, it defends people all along the ideological spectrum from ultra-conservative to ultra-liberal if it determines that their civil liberties are being infringed upon.
Among the founders of the ACLU, or as it was originally called, the Civil Liberties Bureau, were Crystal Eastman and Roger Baldwin. Eastman (1881-1928) studied law at New York University after getting her undergraduate degree at Vassar. This twice married mother of two was instrumental in passing workers compensation laws and did extensive research into industrial accidents. She was a women’s suffrage activist who managed the Wisconsin Women’s Suffrage campaign in 1912, and organized a New York Feminist Congress demanding equality for women in 1919.. (The women’s suffrage amendment giving women the right to vote wasn’t ratified until 1921, a year after the formation of the Civil Liberties Bureau.) Eastman helped found the Congressional Union, lead the New York Branch of the Women’s Peace Party opposing World War I, and edited the Liberator, an anti-war journal. In 1928, the journal, The Nation printed these words of her, “She was for thousands a symbol of what the free woman might be."
Roger Baldwin (1884-1991) attended Harvard obtaining his bachelor’s degree in 1904 and his master’s in 1905. He taught sociology, worked as a probation officer and served as the secretary of the Civic League of St. Louis before heading the pacifist organization, American Union Against Militarism, a predecessor of the Civil Liberties Bureau and the ACLU. This organization defended conscientious objectors and draft resisters during World War I. In 1918 he served nine months of prison time for himself resisting the draft. After release he joined the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW). Ultimately he co-founded the Civil Liberties Bureau, serving first as its director then later as its national chairman.
Until the ACLU’s involvement no free speech defense trials had been won in the Supreme Court. With the ACLU this changed. Among many successful freedom defenses by the ACLU was the right of the Jehovah’s Witnesses to enjoy freedom of the press which had been denied to them because of a Georgia statute requiring a permit to distribute literature of any kind. Other successful ACLU cases were the John Scopes “monkey trial” in 1925 permitting the teaching of evolution in schools, the James Joyce trial in which the ban was lifted from selling his book “Ulysses” in the United States, and the Henry Ford trial where his right to distribute anti-union materials was successfully defended.

The ACLU has fought a great many cases before the Supreme Court in defense of civil liberties. Among them, in 1941, the ACLU won a discrimination case referred to as Edwards v. California. This Supreme Court Case fought the “anti-Okie” law of California which prohibited the transporting of indigent people into the state. In 1943, the Supreme Court decided in favor of the ACLU in the religious discrimination case, West Virginia v. Barnette, and determined that Jehovah’s Witness children could not be forced to salute the American flag. In Smith v. Allwright, 1944, the ACLU successfully fought a racial discrimination case which allowed blacks to vote in Texas’s “white primary”. The Supreme Court determined that even though the Democratic Party is a private organization, primaries are essential to the electoral process and all eligible voters must be included. In 1948 a censorship case called Shelley vs. Kramer determined that restrictive homeowner’s covenants cannot be used to prevent the sale of houses to blacks. In 1952, Burstyn vs. Wilson determined that New York state was wrong to censor a movie called “The Miracle” for being sacrilegious, saying this violated the First Amendment.


In more recent cases, the 1992 case, Lee vs. Weisman determined that it is unconstitutional for officially sanctioned prayers to be lead at graduation ceremonies. The 1993 case of J.E.B. vs. T.B. the Supreme Court decided that pre-emptory challenges could not be used to exclude jurors on the basis of sex. And in 1997, the Supreme Court decided that the 1996 Communications Act banning “indecent” speech violated First Amendment rights.


The ACLU has traditionally fought cases that were unpopular and controversial, but they stand by the American citizen’s right to Constitutional freedoms. Those cases that may seem the most extreme and outlandish as they occur often later become beloved institutions of American jurisprudence.

There is alot more. Research this group. You may not like what you find!


49 posted on 11/16/2004 6:07:12 PM PST by bubman
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To: Captal de Buch; Landru
The settlement does not resolve other ACLU claims involving government spending that benefits the Boy Scouts, such as money used to prepare a Virginia military base for the Boy Scout Jamboree and grants used by state and local governments to benefit the Boy Scouts, Schwartz said.

He said the Pentagon spends $2 million every year to prepare the Virginia base for the jamboree, held once every four years. He said the Defense Department also makes annual allocations of $100,000 to support Boy Scout units on military bases overseas and $100,000 to improve Boy Scout properties, such as summer camps.

A couple of things caught my eye here . . .

1. Who is the "Schwartz" the article refers to?
2. $2 million every year the jamboree? That must be some jamboree!

Does anybody else have a problem believing the mystery Schwartz' figures?

50 posted on 11/16/2004 6:14:41 PM PST by BraveMan
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