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Wahabi mosque under construction in Boston
CBN News ^ | Nov. 16, 2004 | Angel90210

Posted on 11/16/2004 7:32:01 AM PST by angel90210

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To: Modernman; texasbluebell
I can't speak for others, but I would have to say I'm not happy about this because it leads Muslims to expect aspects of sharia for them to follow in the west. Sharia is nothing less than gender and religious apartheid. I would not be happy if banks inthe 1940's made some of their transactions "Nazi compliant" so that certain Germans felt happier.

The main thing is those Muslims who want to assimilate and be westernized feel pressure from within their (Islamic) communities to use the sharia options when they are made available... narrow end of large wedge, etc.

Once after an extremely heated argument I had with a Islamofascist Koranimal in real life, a Muslim (an alcohol drinking, pork eating friend of mine, not a "true believer") said to me that these "rag wearing, crazy followers of Sharia are the ones that are giving me a bad name, and make it so hard for Muslims to come here and be like everyone else."

I think that speaks volumes.

201 posted on 11/17/2004 8:49:37 AM PST by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade.)
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To: Modernman

Thin edge of the wedge.

Not 30 miles from Hamtramck, Michigan, where the moslem call to prayer is now broadcast 5 times a day.


202 posted on 11/17/2004 8:51:03 AM PST by texasbluebell
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To: USF

Many people have said it, and I'll repeat it again.

Islam needs its own reformation.


203 posted on 11/17/2004 8:52:07 AM PST by texasbluebell
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To: USF
Thank you for all the additional information. I guess I won't get any work done today either.lol I wish I had known about FR a year ago when I first started reading about Islam. Since I have been here I don't remember seeing anything on FR about this topic until the cold blooded murder of Mr. Van Gogh in the Netherlands. Of course I have been preoccupied with the reelection of President Bush for the past nine months or so.

I agree that it's not right to label all Muslims as evil. That is what makes this whole topic so difficult. However, it alarms me that Muslims have been silent about the attacks on this country and when I discovered that the Koran approves of this, things started to become clear to me. So, what are practicing Muslims suppose to do? I know the vast majority are loyal to Allah and not to this country. They may have been born here (?) but I still think they consider themselves Muslims first, not Americans.( Do they even consider themselves Americans at all?) This is why I am so concerned. They can live as law abiding citizens, and the majority of them are, but, as SheLion said, when the time comes, the majority are going to do what they are told and they will believe it is pleasing to Allah.

How on earth do we counteract this?

Others keep saying their numbers are small.How many did it take to hold a school hostage in Russia?

With the pacifists in this country, how much would they(terrorists) have to do before people would cave in to their demands to keep the peace? Well, I guess I've vented enough, I need to go check out the links you gave me. Thanks again for taking the time to give me all this info. I may not have dinner on the table tonight but I'll be informed. Hope my husband understands!

Please keep using your knowledge and experience to teach us and others.
204 posted on 11/17/2004 8:54:42 AM PST by jan in Colorado (I'm not opinionated, I'm Just Always "Right "!)
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To: jan in Colorado

Jan, did you get my private mail to you? Look in your mailbox.


205 posted on 11/17/2004 9:08:57 AM PST by texasbluebell
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To: Aquinasfan
IMHO, most of them don't care all that much for politics like many of us in the west, and are very fatalistic.

The problem is societal pressure... you are shunned if you leave Islam or do not tow the line. Islam claims them, not the other way around, and its uncompromising, so if you are from a well known family (as many of my contacts were - and family bonds play a much larger part in Islamic society than ours) or are in a position of influence or a public figure, you are pretty much expected to tow line - in public anyways.

The hardest part is that Muslims do not owe their allegiance to their countries, but to their religion, and fellow Muslims above all else, and are obliged to assist fellow Muslims over the kuffar whether they are in the right or wrong, and once an Islamofascist quotes suras from the Quran, or sunna/ hadiths, to advance the cause of Jihad, the argument seems to end there. There is little further discussion.

Sure, some like Ibn Warraq, Amir Taheri and Ayan Hirsi Ali are brave enough to speak out, but they are a minority and in the case of Warraq, and Ali, had the good sense to leave the cult of death. I can assure you, none of those three would want Sharia anywhere near them.

Muslims overseas also seem to suffer from an extreme inferiority complex due to western dominance, and anything that gives them a "one up" on the west (like 9/11) seems to delight them.

206 posted on 11/17/2004 9:10:07 AM PST by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade.)
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To: texasbluebell
Islam needs its own reformation.

I could not agree more. The "true believers" think any compromise, or watering down of Islam is considered "biddah" (innovation) and ultimately punishable by death.

Based on their track record, the fact that nobody kills Muslims beter than a militant Muslim, I'm bettin its going to be very bloody.

Well, I have to give it to Bush... the best way we can help Islam reform, or totally defeating its intolerant grip on much of the world is by knowing thy enemy, exploiting its existing weakness and many divisions, and playing these factions against another to our advantage even if we have to make allies with some. I favor a Machiavellian approach myself inspite of what my tag line says, as there will be fewer victims all round.

207 posted on 11/17/2004 9:22:38 AM PST by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade.)
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To: jan in Colorado
Thanks Jan, I'm glad you felt you benefited from this discussion. Unfair as it may be, its hard to give Muslims the benefit of doubt given what may be at stake.

Anyway, I'm seriously gettign behind in work too but assure you, I will definitely carry on trying to open the eyes of others.

208 posted on 11/17/2004 9:36:10 AM PST by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade.)
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To: texasbluebell
Islam needs its own reformation.

Or maybe a Pope. Either will be an improvement, of course.

209 posted on 11/17/2004 10:13:27 AM PST by Modernman (Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. --Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Modernman
Or maybe a Pope.

The Islamic equivalent is a Caliph (Khalif, Khalif) and is exactly what these guys want to unite the ummah and make it stronger to face the west.

210 posted on 11/17/2004 10:34:06 AM PST by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade.)
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To: USF
The "Black Legend" is a drop in the bucket.

Thanks. That makes sense, although it's depressing. It seems like typical cult mentality except on a colossal scale.

Do you see any way that the spell can be broken? Or can Mohammedanism only be contained? It amazes me that historically the Christian world has never been able to roll back Mohammedanism anywhere without resorting to force.

211 posted on 11/17/2004 10:58:03 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Aquinasfan
It seems like typical cult mentality except on a colossal scale.

I agree with the use of the word cult, and of the scale.

I have to apologize in advance that I don't have the time for a long reply at the moment.

As for breaking the spell.... yes, I think it's possible. In the same way the spell of Fascism, Communism and Pan Arabism has been broken. Ultimately it will involve cutting thru the PC BS and restraing Islams spread in the west, using overwhelming force (or the threat of it) to totally defeat the opposition overseas and humiliating (this is crucial) them in defeat either externally or from within, in the way we did for so many enemies in the past. Today any German Nazi, Japanese imperialist, EuroCommunists or their ideological kin, is seen as nothing but a lunatic from their own side, because of the total defeat of their ideology and cause. Victor Davis Hanson wrote more about this, but I cant find the article I would like to show you, but this is what we need to do to current crop of jihadis and their ideology. The Islamofascists will not understand any other language than force and humiliation, so sadly that will be the way we will have to conduct our business with them.

The Islamic world has seen the Kermalists fail and since the failure of the Pan Arabists, appear to be offered only a return to the "Golden Age of Islam" of the 7th century as a way of restoring their Islamic honor and pride. It does not appear to occur to them that oppressing over half their populations (women and minorities) and having Islamic superstition hold them back is not the way to become a productive society that can compete on a global scale. This is part of why they have become the parasites that they have, and can have to use the technological gifts of the west to destroy the things they could never create.

The method I would advocate first, call it "plan A" if you want, is along the lines of the Machiavellian apprach I touched briefly on in my #207. Understand and use their many divisions, to divide and conquer. Try and set examples of democracy as a beacon for some to follow as we're trying in Iraq, but failing this, and for the others, let the Islamic civil war begin as there is no bloodless way for Islam to reform. Make the majority of the Muslims wake up and understand that nobody has ever killed Muslims better than a militant Muslim. It's obvious that reform (if indeed possible) will have to come from within, combined with extreme outside pressure to force them to come to their senses, as VDH wrote "Mr. Musharraf is glad to be done with the Taliban he once promoted — not because he fell for the charm of Colin Powell, but rather because he that saw GPS-bombs were getting awfully close to his own borders." I also have major concerns about the compatibility of Islam and democracy, but thats something that will be settled during Islams own internal conflict.

If we fail, because the clueless PC twits tie our hands, or if the "true believers" come out as the victors in Islams own conflicts and ummah unites against us "plan B" will have to be used and they will only have themselves to blame. A more confrontational approach, I would like to see an anti-Jihad alliance of the US, Israel, Russia, India, etc - all those at the receiving end of the global jihad... essentially what my tagline says.

212 posted on 11/17/2004 12:27:44 PM PST by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade.)
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To: USF
Thanks for #212. Great post. I've had some of the same intuitions, but you're much more knowledgeable about the subject.

humiliating (this is crucial) them in defeat

I've thought the same thing. The overwhelming defeat of the Japanese in WWII is a probably a good analogy, sadly.

213 posted on 11/17/2004 12:35:28 PM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: USF
The Islamic equivalent is a Caliph (Khalif, Khalif) and is exactly what these guys want to unite the ummah and make it stronger to face the west.

I thought Caliph's ruled individual nations. I didn't know that a caliphate could extend over many nations. Do all the sects accept this?

214 posted on 11/17/2004 12:40:39 PM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: angel90210

What's happening in Europe will one day be happening here also.


215 posted on 11/17/2004 12:40:56 PM PST by sawmill trash (We interrupt the regularly scheduled tagline to bring you this special tagline. 4 MORE YEARS !!!!)
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To: Aquinasfan

The caliph is supposed to be the ultimate ruler, and transcends national boundaries for the "true believers." Since the line of the caliphs has been broken, it may be hard to get all Muslims to recognize any new Caliphs authority, but one thing you can be sure of is the "true believers" like Osama are the ones who will be behind imposing any new Caliph in the current climate.


216 posted on 11/17/2004 12:52:11 PM PST by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade.)
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To: angel90210

bump


217 posted on 11/18/2004 6:15:54 PM PST by 4.1O dana super trac pak (Stop the open borders death cult)
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To: MadAnthony1776

Don't be such a jerk. Im a liberal and if we hated America so much we would be moving out of it to europe or canada. Get your facts straight before pointing fingers. The liberals stand for helping regular life while the conservatives stand for protecting it. I really hope you aren't old enough to vote...


218 posted on 12/03/2004 3:13:13 AM PST by soran_marlovic
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To: hlmencken3

um.. you do know that Boston is already a democratic state right? they are mostly liberal anyway.


219 posted on 12/03/2004 3:16:18 AM PST by soran_marlovic
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To: stuartcr

Show us some Muslim outcry in Boston against the many terrorist acts commited against the US.........Kind of quiet , huh bud ?


220 posted on 12/03/2004 3:21:02 AM PST by hineybona
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To: All
Islam, The Alleged Religion of Peace® ( TARP™ )? Click this picture:


221 posted on 12/03/2004 3:52:27 AM PST by backhoe (-30-)
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To: USF
Thank you USF for all your HELP!
222 posted on 02/14/2005 3:29:16 PM PST by jan in Colorado
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To: jan in Colorado
Jan, you're welcome, anytime. It's been a pleasure.

;o)

223 posted on 02/14/2005 4:22:08 PM PST by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade )
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To: USF
A look back...> ping!

This was your first post to me one year ago.Thanks for all the links and for sharing ALL your knowledge.

224 posted on 11/15/2005 11:28:58 PM PST by jan in Colorado ('Muslims will never accept this kind of humiliation. We demand an apology!)
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To: jan in Colorado
>Thank YOU Jan. So many grains of sand, so many waves have come and gone, and yet a bright starfish, still shines for all to see.
225 posted on 11/16/2005 3:55:18 AM PST by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade )
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