Posted on 11/16/2004 11:31:37 PM PST by kattracks
WASHINGTON — A U.S. Marine being investigated for allegedly killing an unarmed, wounded Iraqi was acting under extreme combat stress, comrades said yesterday.It was also disclosed that the Marine had just returned to duty after being shot in the face the previous day.
[snip]
Marines interviewed yesterday said the shooting wasn't a scandal, but evidence of how soldiers react under extreme circumstances.
"I can see why he would do it," said Lance Cpl. Christopher Hanson. "He was probably running around being shot at for days on end in Fallujah. There should be an investigation, but they should look into the circumstances."
"I would have shot the insurgent, too. Two shots to the head," said Sgt. Nicholas Graham, 24, of Pittsburgh. "You can't trust these people. He should not be investigated. He did nothing wrong."
Military sources also noted that the bodies of rebels — and even a beheaded hostage in June — have been booby-trapped with explosives set to go off if touched by an soldier.
A Marine from the same unit as the one in question was reportedly killed the day before the shooting by a booby-trapped body — and the day of the shooting, another Marine was killed by a booby-trapped body.
[snip]
A Pentagon spokesperson said, "The forces we face are not following the standards rules of war. They are using mosques. They are using civilians as human shields and all sorts of other tactics."
(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...
I'd like to put the idiots at NBC over there and see how long they'd last...
Wow, NYPost acutally doing something supporting our troops.
The Post has been very supportive of our troops and of President Bush.
This just in terrorists are dressing up as imbedded media presstitutes.......
"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast." --- Civil War General William Tecumseh Sherman
this seal has it about right in my opinion.
http://www.froggyruminations.blogspot.com/
" They're Called Security Rounds
Its a safety issue pure and simple. After assaulting through a target, put a security round in everybody's head. Sorry al-Reuters, there's no paddy wagon rolling around Fallujah picking up "prisoners" and offering them a hot cup a joe, falafel, and a blanket. There's no time to dick around in the target, you clear the space, dump the chumps, and moveon.org. Are Corpsman expected to treat wounded terrorists? Negative. Hey libs, worried about the defense budget? Well, it would be waste, fraud, and abuse for a Corpsman to spend one man minute or a battle dressing on a terrorist, its much cheaper to just spend the $.02 on a 5.56mm FMJ.
By the way, terrorists who chop off civilian's heads are not prisoners, they are carcasses.
UPDATE: Let me be very clear about this issue. I have looked around the web, and many people get this concept, but there are some stragglers. Here is your situation Marine. You just took fire from unlawful combatants shooting from a religious building attempting to use the sanctuary status of their position as protection. But you're in Fallujah now, and the Marine Corps has decided that they're not playing that game this time. That was Najaf. So you set the mosque on fire and you hose down the terrorists with small arms, launch some AT-4s (Rockets), some 40MM grenades into the building and things quiet down. So you run over there, and find some tangos wounded and pretending to be dead. You are aware that suicide martyrdom is like really popular with these kind of idiots, and like taking some Marines with them would be really cool. So you can either risk your life and your fireteam's lives by having them cover you while you bend down and search a guy that you think is pretending to be dead for some reason. Also, you don't know who or what is in the next room, and you're already speaking english to each other and its loud because your hearing is poor from shooting people for several days. So you know that there are many other rooms to enter, and that if anyone is still alive in those rooms, they know that Americans are in the mosque. Meanwhile (3 seconds later), you still have this terrorist that was just shooting at you from a mosque playing possum. What do you do?
You double tap his head, and you go to the next room, that's what.
What about the Geneva Conventions and all that Law of Land Warfare stuff? What about it. Without even addressing the issues at hand you first thought should be, "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6." Bear in mind that this is a perpetual mindset that is reinforced by experiences gained on a minute by minute basis. Secondly, you are fighting an unlawful combatant in a Sanctuary which is a double No No on his part. Third, tactically you are in no position to take "prisoners" because there are more rooms to search and clear, and the behavior of said terrorist indicates that he is up to no good. No good in Fallujah is a very large place and the low end of no good and the high end of no good are fundamentally the same... Marines get hurt or die. So there is no compelling reason for you to do anything but double tap this idiot and get on with the mission.
If you are a veteran then everything I have just written is self evident, if you are not a veteran than at least try to put yourself in the situation. Remember, in Fallujah there is no yesterday, there is no tomorrow, there is only now. Right NOW. Have you ever lived in NOW for a week? It is not easy, and if you have never lived in NOW for longer than it takes to finish the big roller coaster at Six Flags, then shut your hole about putting Marines in jail for war crimes. Be advised, I am not talking to my readers, but if this post gets linked up, I want regular folks to get this message loud and clear. Froggy OUT.
UPDATE #2: See my Prayer for some insight as to how The Big Judge in the sky might rule on this case."
When we started to serch a body for IED's if it wasn't visably dead ie bloated etc we gave a command to show hands and don't move in the native language. Zero response resulted in shots to the head from a safe distance to make sure the enemy was dead !
Sad part is that even though that was SOP for our needs the MSM would still have issues with it as they expect the military to be law enforcement and that just is NOT THE CASE AT ALL.........different job , different mission, ....presstitutes we left in the desert when they were assigned to ride with us. Or I tasked two troops to take em on a Louisana hay ride to let us get the job done. Any way one looks at it the MSM costs the DOD money , lives and initial success. Too bad good officers and NCO's don't know how to "handle" this threat to their troops........
I'm for keeping journalists off the front lines and away from our troops, period. I wonder how many journalists have caused the deaths of others from just being in the way, let alone undoing complete operations, misrepresenting the facts and otherwise being a burden to our soldiers.
919. ART. 119. MANSLAUGHTER
(a) Any person subject to this chapter who, with an intent to kill or inflict great bodily harm, unlawfully kills a human being in the heat of sudden passion caused by adequate provocation is guilty of voluntary manslaughter and shall be punished as a court- martial may direct.
--Uniform Code of Military Justice.
Provoked or not, in the heat of passion or not, the Marine in question comitted a crime under the UCMJ which must be duly investigated. As Americans, and especially in the armed services, we do not compromise or otherwise lower our standards. The tactics employed by the enemy do not excuse or exclude our soldiers from the UCMJ and the recognized laws of war.
This is what makes us different from the insurgents, terrorists, and other barbarians that we're fighting in Iraq and elsewhere.
I think to support the "private enterprise" of MSM imbedded among our troops in battle is wrong. Whos to say the MSM should be the only one to profit from war with nooooze and fabricated outrage to pursue their own political and personal agenda ?
Say if I was some "adventure tours" owner and wanted to send those willing to pay into battle so they too can get a first hand look at the fighting...why would Uncle Sugar pander to the presstitutes and not my enterprise ?
I think the media is a danger to the military operations and as such costing America it's sons and daughters lives .
Too all those that suggest the Military needs to be monitored etc I say BS as the Officers and NCO's appointed over these soldiers sailors airmen and marines are good people and if an atrocity is observed the UCMJ and other directives / policies are in place for just such criminal acts.
Just my opinion of course based on my own personal experience dealing with such stupidity imposed upon me and my troops over my 26 years of service...right or wrong ....mine.
Stay safe !
My BP is rising too much so I have to get out of this thread !
Take her easy.
So you've decided he's guilty already but it needs to be investigated ?..........how nice. Kinda like if yer suspected witch wrapped in chains sinks she's guilty.....
We are the Dead. Short days ago We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow, Loved and were loved, and now we lie In Flanders fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe: To you from failing hands we throw The torch; be yours to hold it high. If ye break faith with us who die We shall not sleep, though poppies grow In Flanders fields.
John McRae
There is a website (not sure how I found it) where it appears that there are people who would want to take tour groups to the front lines, just not for journalistic reasons. ;)
I wonder what Constitutional lawyers would say about an emergency prohibition of the press anywhere near our troops just for the safety of the press. It must be difficult when aiming one's weapon or pointing a large barrel with journalists popping in and out of range.
I have eyes, I've seen the unedited video, what happened was fairly obvious. What remains is for the Marine to justify his actions.
It wouldn't need "Constitutional lawyers" to do this. All that should be needed is for the interim Iraqi leader, Allawi, to announce a ban -- and out of Iraq they go. Were I him, I would be very tempted to do so.
Great idea. Then from your mouth, to God's ear, then from God back to Allawi. It's on my prayer list. Journalists shouldn't be there and not just because of this latest incident.
Dunno.....One would have to wonder if the BSA being barred from DOD support would apply to the nooooze presstitutes also ??
.....I know what we did was so classified and secretive with regards to procedures and tactics that we just told them no unless we gave em a watered down dog and pony shit'n shineola show by blowing up a block of C-4 and letting em ohhhhh and ahhhhh over that with their story.
Anything else ......they just got a promised ride in the hanger queen helo. Really funny watching em sit an wait near their "ride" which in some cases had the engine in a work stand next to the bird..........:o)
Stay safe !
You saw the terrorists hands in the video ? I didn't ! Thank goodness you saw what was in the terrorists hands that weren't shown in the video I saw... Thanks for updating me on that ..... I'll go get the rope and we'll hang this troop based on your eyes........
Inside that bad guy zone, you assume they're all bombs and not just bodies...I have no problem with what this Marine did and hope to hell we don't have to deal with this piss-ant sh*t from the Communist Politboro Alphabet Networks...I'm about to call for an insurgency against the Propangandist Media, which wants us to lose this war and lose lots of our warriors for their own sick ends...
Still, why are the troops so limited on their correspondence and photos yet journalists are talking about the many colors of toilet paper and everything else?
This isn't a uniform war, sorry, you lose every day and twice on Tuesdays...
And for the record, we need to keep from putting our troops in this kind of predicament.
Use more REALLY BIG BOMBS and FEWER WARRIORS.
And yes, you are a Zero...
The worst problem is not the furor created by journalistic moments of controversial moments in war (I have no big problem with that, in a democratic republic the people should get what they ask for), but the over caution from the presence of these civilians. It's similar to the problems created by a coed military, the guys are distracted by wanting to protect the women.
Are you kidding?! The Post has been a rock in supporting our troops. They posted the Marboro Man pix with the title "Smokin" them out in Fallujah.
Good post!
To investigate and to punish with the regulations of the law if this particular soldier is found guilty, will be the only possibility to get out of this quagmire.
America is fighting for freedom and not for barbarism!
BTW - to punish criminals has nothing to do with a lack of support for the American troops or president Bush. President Bush is standing for humanity and the freedom of the press. This is the reason why he is a real leader in this world. Legalizing war crimes, killing civilians without need and surpressing information was the issue of Saddam Hussein and Adolf Hitler.
Not sure ... I suspect that the Sat Cellular video phones have something to do with it. Just seems like a crime to give details about iraqi uniform markings etc that ID'd friendlies etc..... I just think MSM imbedded with combat troops is wrong. If the Teeee Veee and press weenies want to go to war....enlist as combat camera and or public affairs ....otherwise stay out of the way.
Again my personal opinion.....
Stay safe !
Who tf asked you?
If I were on this Marine's 6, there'd be a dead videographer right now too...
Our adherence to the rule of law is what separates us from the terrorists and is not suspended during a military campaign.
LOL
Ok, back to kindergarten now...kool-aid all gone.
For each and every Marine that gets it from a wounded POS Moo over there, I say we drop one of YOU into Iraq to clear out a mine field for the good guys...
And then listen to your Bravo Sierra...
BTW, we're going to break a few rules in this war...
Suck on that.
Thanks for the link to the froggy site. It's bookmarked for me. He's got a way with words that make things crystal clear for the muddle-headed handwringers.
You drunk, Clanner?
Thanks.
Sober as a church mouse...DUmmy.
I'm up to about 20 on the count of such garbage
Sad.
That's why these enemy eyes and ears got to go!!!
Yes, you are...
Folks like you get other folks' heads cutt off...what a pathetic little girl.
People who shot civilians without need, are always in danger to kiss an electric chair. This is the best way to get rid of this kind of barbarism.
America stands for freedom and humanity and not for killers without self-control. A legal millitary court will find the right decision.
Yes, I number many 'journalists' as acting agents of the terrorists in Iraq...
What 'civilians' were shot without need?
Your heart is in the right place, but don't bother arguing with a board troll.
I agree with you, Squantos. What's an average citizen to do about getting someone to send the journalists home?
A legal millitary court will find the right decision.
>>>
Yes, and I'm betting this Marine will be back in action shortly after, if he so chooses.
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