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Congressmen urge Bush to drop guest-worker plan
The Washington Times ^ | November 17, 2004 | Jerry Seper

Posted on 11/17/2004 8:54:21 AM PST by Ron H.

The chairman of a House International Relations subcommittee yesterday urged the Bush administration to drop its proposed temporary guest-worker program and not "reward Mexican nationals living and working illegally in the United States" with legal status.

"It is our hope that in future discussions with the Mexican government, you will encourage Mexico to do its part to address illegal immigration rather than encourage their citizens to illegally enter the U.S.," said Rep. Elton Gallegly, California Republican, who heads the subcommittee on terrorism, nonproliferation and human rights, in letters to Secretary of State Colin L. Powell and Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge.

"Cooperation with our close neighbor Mexico is essential, but we also feel that Mexico must respect our sovereignty and our laws, and ........

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Alabama; US: Arizona; US: California; US: Colorado; US: Florida; US: Georgia; US: Illinois; US: Iowa; US: Kansas; US: Louisiana; US: Minnesota; US: Nevada; US: New Jersey; US: New Mexico; US: North Carolina; US: South Carolina; US: Tennessee; US: Texas; US: Utah; US: Wisconsin; US: Wyoming; Unclassified; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: alien; aliens; amnesty; bush; bushamnesty; cheaplabor; guest; illegal; immigrants; immigration; invasion; napalminthemorning; seper; southernborder; suxico; worker; wot
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The issue is starting to develope a head of steam. Stay tuned.
1 posted on 11/17/2004 8:54:22 AM PST by Ron H.
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To: gubamyster; Joe Hadenuf; janetgreen

A heads up bump for the ping list.


2 posted on 11/17/2004 8:56:39 AM PST by Ron H. (Amnesty, quasi-amnesty or guest worker, its still all the same thing. Amnesty is bad for Americans!)
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To: Ron H.

We'll see if they have the courage to tell him no when he pushes his illegal agenda full force.


3 posted on 11/17/2004 8:58:42 AM PST by Bikers4Bush (Flood waters rising, heading for more conservative ground. Vote for true conservatives!)
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To: Ron H.

I really don't get Bush's position on this at all.


4 posted on 11/17/2004 8:58:49 AM PST by Maceman (It's no longer a blue world, Max!!)
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To: Ron H.

From what I understand of Bush's plan, he wantes to create a new work visa category for guest workers. The big problem, aside from awarding illegal immigration, is that the visa is temporary and similar to the H1B - 3 years initially and renewable for 3 years. Then you have to leave the country. Thats the problem. even if this program is implemented, what will make those on the program leave after 6 years? Won't they simply return to their illegal status and stay?


5 posted on 11/17/2004 8:59:20 AM PST by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: Ron H.
Dead. Dead. DEAD! Dead on arrival.

Sorry, Mr. President. When you can tell us how you plan to get these folks to "go home" when their visas run out but your people say it simply isn't possible to find them *now* and deport them all, we have to stand firm on this issue.

America deserves a fortified border. Bring back "Operation Gatekeeper" and extend the wall across the entire Southern Border. Employ drones and other high-tech surveillance.

This is a CORNERSTONE of the War on Terror, Mr. President. Get off your ass and do something sensible!

6 posted on 11/17/2004 8:59:55 AM PST by newzjunkey ("The rule of law has become confused with - indeed subverted by - the rule of judges." - Robert Bork)
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To: Ron H.
In addition to Mr. Gallegly, others to sign the letter were Republican Reps. Lamar Smith, Sam Johnson and John Culberson of Texas, John Hostettler of Indiana, Charlie Norwood and Nathan Deal of Georgia, Ed Royce and Gary G. Miller and Dana Rohrabacher of California, and Tom Tancredo of Colorado.

Also, Reps. John J. "Jimmy" Duncan Jr. of Tennessee, Roscoe G. Bartlett of Maryland, Kevin Brady of Texas, Robert B. Aderholt of Alabama, Charles W. "Chip" Pickering Jr. of Mississippi, John Sullivan of Oklahoma, J. Gresham Barrett of South Carolina, Barbara Cubin of Wyoming, Sue Myrick and Walter B. Jones of North Carolina and Steve King of Iowa.


7 posted on 11/17/2004 9:01:15 AM PST by Ron H. (Amnesty, quasi-amnesty or guest worker, its still all the same thing. Amnesty is bad for Americans!)
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To: Ron H.
Mexico must respect our sovereignty and our laws, and should encourage its citizens to do the same," Mr. Gallegly said in the letter

The illegals work in the US and send millions of US dollars back to their families in Mexico. Seems like Mexico would have to be incredibly stupid to discourage that.

8 posted on 11/17/2004 9:02:34 AM PST by newgeezer (Just my opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary. You have the right to be wrong.)
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To: Ron H.

Read later.


9 posted on 11/17/2004 9:02:41 AM PST by EagleMamaMT
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To: Maceman

IT benefits businesses.


10 posted on 11/17/2004 9:03:30 AM PST by Independentamerican (Independent Junior at the University of MD)
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To: doc30
Won't they simply return to their illegal status and stay?

EXACTLY! How dare you use common sense and not listen to the lies and rhetorical smokescreen of Bush's spokes-holes and point people on this backdoor amnesty.

When President Bush says he's against amnesty he's LYING so long as he pushes for this guest worker program of his. It is the amnesty disaster of the 1980s all over again *without* embracing the hindsight that shows illegal immigration *increased* rather than *decreased* after the amnesty.

The top criminal population in California's prison system today are Latinos. There are El Salvadoran street gangs in Los Angeles which are being actively recruited by Al Queda.

11 posted on 11/17/2004 9:05:50 AM PST by newzjunkey ("The rule of law has become confused with - indeed subverted by - the rule of judges." - Robert Bork)
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To: newzjunkey

I couldn't agree more. I have no idea why the gov't continues to refuse to secure the border! We know terrorists are sneaking in...seems like a no brainer to me. I guess we're still appeasing the illegals and their families who are here in lieu of the safety and security of American citizens. Although, I guess it would upset the entire Mexican health care system...which is to sneak into the us and abuse the American taxpayers!


12 posted on 11/17/2004 9:07:21 AM PST by FairfaxVA (SELECT * FROM liberals WHERE clue > 0. Zero rows returned!)
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To: Ron H.; RushCrush
Added Iowa to the TOPICS list.
In addition to Mr. Gallegly, others to sign the letter were Republican Reps. ... and Steve King of Iowa.

(Steve King for Governor in '06!)

13 posted on 11/17/2004 9:10:44 AM PST by newgeezer (Just my opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary. You have the right to be wrong.)
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To: newgeezer; Ron H.
The number THREE source of revenue in the GNP of Mexico is funding sent home by Mexicans working in America. Legal, illegal: doesn't matter. Wiring funds is a *huge* business for trafficking dollars in this manner. The receiving end in Mexico charges a steep premium but it's worth it to the recipient. Until this is *stopped* they will continue to come by the tens of thousands. They'll come as car seats, piñatas and dashboards at $5000 an attempt.


14 posted on 11/17/2004 9:12:52 AM PST by newzjunkey ("The rule of law has become confused with - indeed subverted by - the rule of judges." - Robert Bork)
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To: Ron H.

"Cooperation with our close neighbor Mexico is essential, but we also feel that Mexico must respect our sovereignty and our laws, "

BUMP!


15 posted on 11/17/2004 9:19:17 AM PST by AuntB (Most provisional ballots are from voters not eligible to vote!!! Ask a poll worker!)
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To: newgeezer
The illegals work in the US and send millions of US dollars back to their families in Mexico. Seems like Mexico would have to be incredibly stupid to discourage that.

the exportation of illegals from Mexico has become an obvious part of Mexican strategy for economic growth, they are consciously dedicating resources to its promotion (see the opening of consulates all over the US as part of the plan). Our officials should be doing something to discourage this behavior, but they are actually encouraging it.

16 posted on 11/17/2004 9:22:15 AM PST by Pa' fuera
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To: newzjunkey

If some of these people who display this form of ingeniousness at concealment were to employ the ideas in their homeland they ought to be able to succeed there one would think.

17 posted on 11/17/2004 9:22:17 AM PST by Ron H. (Amnesty, quasi-amnesty or guest worker, its still all the same thing. Amnesty is bad for Americans!)
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To: Ron H.

Viva Gallegly

Viva Tancredo

Tom Tancredo 2008 = Last Hope to Save America
Tom Tancredo 2008 = Principled Conservative Leadership Money Can't Buy
Tom Tancredo 2008 = True Conservative


18 posted on 11/17/2004 9:24:00 AM PST by nanak
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To: newgeezer

I would LOVE to see King run for Governor but I am not sure he wants to. He loves being in D.C. I called his office and asked him to mount a primary challenge to Grassley but they wouldn't go along with it.


19 posted on 11/17/2004 9:24:57 AM PST by nonliberal (Up the feces tributary without a means of locomotion.)
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To: nanak

Tancredo/Hutchison 2008!


20 posted on 11/17/2004 9:25:56 AM PST by nonliberal (Up the feces tributary without a means of locomotion.)
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To: Ron H.

The US has a guest worker program? Why?


21 posted on 11/17/2004 9:26:57 AM PST by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: Ron H.

bttt.

Everyone in the country is against this. What's up with Bush? What's his real agenda?


22 posted on 11/17/2004 9:28:33 AM PST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: nonliberal
asked him to mount a primary challenge to Grassley but they wouldn't go along with it.

Just a hunch but, maybe Mr. King didn't want to (1) end what appeared to be a promising career in politics and (2) be forever remembered as a total nutjob, which is exactly what he would have accomplished by running against Grassley.

23 posted on 11/17/2004 9:34:31 AM PST by newgeezer (Just my opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary. You have the right to be wrong.)
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To: Independentamerican
IT benefits businesses.

As the greedy sons of bitches sit in their back offices, counting their profits on the backs of the tax payers, that are forced to pay for the titanic, government sponsored disaster.

24 posted on 11/17/2004 9:39:13 AM PST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: newgeezer
Enough conservatives hate Grassley for the Prescription Drug bill, gutting the tax cut, supporting Ganske over Salier and his general big-government outlook. Chuckles has really wandered off the reservation.

Had a legitimate challenger emerged, Grassley would have had the fight of his life.

25 posted on 11/17/2004 9:41:30 AM PST by nonliberal (Up the feces tributary without a means of locomotion.)
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To: nonliberal
Had a legitimate challenger emerged, Grassley would have had the fight of his life.

Maybe in Utah or Idaho but, not in Iowa. Grassley walks on water for too many people in Iowa. Remember, Iowans re-elect Grassley AND Harkin to the Senate every six years. Anyone so daring as to call Grassley not-conservative-enough will have his *ss handed to him in a primary election, if only because registered Republicans will NOT take the chance of having TWO Harkins representing us after the resulting general election.

26 posted on 11/17/2004 9:56:08 AM PST by newgeezer (Just my opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary. You have the right to be wrong.)
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To: Maceman
I really don't get Bush's position on this at all.

It's really quite simple: All the President wants to do is register illegal aliens with the federal government so they'll pay taxes, let them work for a few years doing jobs that Americans won't do like picking produce (after these jobs have been posted for 60 days FOR Americans but haven't been filled), and when their guest-worker permits expire, they'll have no choice but to return home.

But Congresscritters and hysterical FReepers would rather have the illegals still wandering around on the streets and getting paid under the table, sending most of their income back home to relatives in Mexico.

27 posted on 11/17/2004 10:01:59 AM PST by BlkConserv
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To: doc30
Won't they simply return to their illegal status and stay?

How can they when they've been registered with the government? Once they're apprehended they'll be deported back to their home country because law enforcement will know who they are now.

28 posted on 11/17/2004 10:05:01 AM PST by BlkConserv
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To: Ron H.
"It is our hope that in future discussions with the Mexican government, you will encourage Mexico to do its part to address illegal immigration rather than encourage their citizens to illegally enter the U.S.,"

Mexico refuses to take the hint that Americans are fed up with being forced to support its exported people. Mexico has no intention of stopping the flow - why should they? It's hugely profitable to them at our expense. It will take more than "encouraging Mexico", it will take REAL action on our part.

29 posted on 11/17/2004 10:08:29 AM PST by janetgreen
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To: newzjunkey
When President Bush says he's against amnesty he's LYING so long as he pushes for this guest worker program of his. It is the amnesty disaster of the 1980s all over again *without* embracing the hindsight that shows illegal immigration *increased* rather than *decreased* after the amnesty.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/01/20040107-1.html

30 posted on 11/17/2004 10:10:02 AM PST by BlkConserv
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To: FairfaxVA
I have no idea why the gov't continues to refuse to secure the border!

Spending on border patrols and enforcement has increased under President Bush.

31 posted on 11/17/2004 10:11:09 AM PST by BlkConserv
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To: BlkConserv
Once they're apprehended they'll be deported back to their home country

Do you really believe that? How are we going to "apprehend" 10 million people? Will they take their entire families with them? It won't happen.

The only real solution is to dismantle the welfare state and extended medical care for illegal aliens, and to heavily fine the employers who hire them. That's the ONLY way they will start to go home.

32 posted on 11/17/2004 10:13:56 AM PST by janetgreen
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To: nanak
Tom Tancredo 2008

Tancredo also proposes a guest-worker plan as a part of any immigration reform.

33 posted on 11/17/2004 10:14:04 AM PST by BlkConserv
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To: BlkConserv
It's really quite simple: All the President wants to do is register illegal aliens with the federal government so they'll pay taxes, let them work for a few years doing jobs that Americans won't do like picking produce (after these jobs have been posted for 60 days FOR Americans but haven't been filled), and when their guest-worker permits expire, they'll have no choice but to return home.

Even if our government did implement a guest worker program, we certainly don't need 15 million Mexican guest workers to pick our produce. Also, how would we make sure that the illegal aliens who got into the guest worker program do in fact go home after their permits expire? Right now, we have no way of knowing whether a foreigner whose visa has expired has left the United States when they're supposed to.

34 posted on 11/17/2004 10:17:08 AM PST by usadave
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To: BlkConserv

If you read Tancredo's plan, it actually makes sense, unlike Mr. Bush's plan.


35 posted on 11/17/2004 10:17:46 AM PST by janetgreen
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To: janetgreen

bttt


36 posted on 11/17/2004 10:18:04 AM PST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: newzjunkey

"Hospitals are closing across the country due to the burden of illegal immigration, college students find that summer jobs have dried up due to illegal immigration, and wages across the board are depressed by the overwhelming influx of cheap and illegal labor," he said.
Mr. Gallegly said amnesties "only encourage more people to cross the border illegally," which he said was proven by a twofold increase in illegal immigration after a 1986 amnesty offered during the Reagan administration.

---It is the amnesty disaster of the 1980s all over again *without* embracing the hindsight that shows illegal immigration *increased* rather than *decreased* after the amnesty.---

President Reagan's biggest mistake: Take the lazy option - simply declare them legal and the problem goes away.


37 posted on 11/17/2004 10:18:25 AM PST by citizen (Yo W! Read my lips: NO AMNESTY!)
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To: BlkConserv
" let them work for a few years doing jobs that Americans won't do like picking produce (after these jobs have been posted for 60 days FOR Americans but haven't been filled)"

What you mean is jobs that Americans won't do for Third World wages. By flooding our labor market with the world's economic refugees, we're simply bidding our standard of living down.
38 posted on 11/17/2004 10:18:41 AM PST by radicalamericannationalist (The Senate is our new goal: 60 in '06.)
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To: BlkConserv
Prosecution of businesses employing illegals has also decreased.
39 posted on 11/17/2004 10:19:21 AM PST by radicalamericannationalist (The Senate is our new goal: 60 in '06.)
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To: BlkConserv

As they're apprehended and deported now? Can you say "catch and release?"


40 posted on 11/17/2004 10:19:53 AM PST by radicalamericannationalist (The Senate is our new goal: 60 in '06.)
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To: janetgreen
Do you really believe that? How are we going to "apprehend" 10 million people?

We won't have to. They'll apprehend themselves because they'll be registered with the federal government.

Will they take their entire families with them? It won't happen.

Most illegal aliens didn't have families to begin with when they came here. They came here on their own and met up with friends or other illegals.

The only real solution is to dismantle the welfare state and extended medical care for illegal aliens

Uh, Bush's plan does that. Guest-workers would pay for their own services.

and to heavily fine the employers who hire them. That's the ONLY way they will start to go home.

Bush's plan requires employers to post jobs only if they cannot be filled by Americans. Fining employers is counter-productive and will only make things worse.

41 posted on 11/17/2004 10:21:43 AM PST by BlkConserv
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To: janetgreen
If you read Tancredo's plan, it actually makes sense, unlike Mr. Bush's plan.

Yes, I concede that Tancredo's plan is slightly better than Bush's. But bloviating and denouncing the President's plan as an "amnesty" is going to get Tancredo nowhere. He should work with the President, instead of against him. And Tom Daschle will tell you what happens when you work against the President.

Both plans contain a guest-worker proposal. You can shout and scream until the cows come home and you're blue in the face but any immigration reform has to include a guest-worker plan.

42 posted on 11/17/2004 10:25:44 AM PST by BlkConserv
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To: radicalamericannationalist
As they're apprehended and deported now?

Well, we don't know where they are, remember? They're completely anonymous. Most illegals caught at the border are returned, however.

43 posted on 11/17/2004 10:28:53 AM PST by BlkConserv
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To: BlkConserv
How can they when they've been registered with the government? Once they're apprehended they'll be deported back to their home country because law enforcement will know who they are now.

Millions of foreign visitors who came to the United States on legal visas, and who had to register with our government to get those visas, are now still in the United States after their visas have expired, and our government isn't doing much to try to apprehend them (if they even know where they are because many of these people have moved or are using aliases to avoid getting caught). Anyway, law enforcement knows where many illegal aliens can be found right now (standing on street corners in groups of 25-50 looking for work in most of our large cities) and yet these illegal aliens aren't being rounded up and deported.

44 posted on 11/17/2004 10:30:33 AM PST by usadave
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To: radicalamericannationalist
What you mean is jobs that Americans won't do for Third World wages.

BINGO. All this "jobs that Americans won't do" is a bunch of BS. There is NO task that cannot or will not be done by some American. It's simply a matter of paying someone enough to do it.

What, you'd have to pay $12/hour to find someone to shovel your pig sh*t in 110 degree heat, and you think that's too much? Then, by all means, do it yourself.

45 posted on 11/17/2004 10:31:10 AM PST by newgeezer (Just my opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary. You have the right to be wrong.)
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To: BlkConserv

"How can they when they've been registered with the government?"

How do you suppose anyone is going to get them registered. A guest worker program or amnesty has never stopped the invasion before. 1/3 of our prisons are filled with criminal illegals. Criminals don't register....just like they don't register guns.


DOBBS: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is warning of the threat of terrorists entering this country through the same routes as those used by illegal aliens. Secretary Rumsfeld, traveling in South America, warned that enemies look for weaknesses and take advantage of them.

DONALD RUMSFELD: The risk is that some of these human-smuggling routes into our country from this hemisphere could be used just as easily for terrorists. ~snip~
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1281801/posts

Do you think people like the guy below will register??


http://www.democratherald.com/articles/2003/04/09/news/oregon/state03.prt
Last modified Wednesday, April 9, 2003 1:42 PM PDT

Esparza pleads guilty to killing nun


KLAMATH FALLS (AP) - Maximiliano Silerio Esparza pleaded guilty Tuesday to charges that he raped two nuns and killed one of them as they walked and prayed on a bike path last September.
Esparza, 33, was sentenced to life in prison without parole for the murder of Sister Helen Lynn Chaska, 53. He got another 10 years for the attempted murder of the surviving nun, and 15 years for raping the women.

In return for his guilty plea, Esparza avoided a possible death sentence.
In a statement, Edwin Caleb, the Klamath County district attorney, said he offered the plea for several reasons, including the surviving nun's religious convictions. Caleb said he didn't want to force the nun to testify.
"The most obvious reason is the certainty that this monster will be in jail for the rest of his life and never get the opportunity to offend again," he said.
Police say Esparza rode a train from Portland to Klamath Falls about a week before the attack. He visited a strip bar and then attacked the nuns early on a Sunday morning as they prayed on the downtown bike path.
Esparza head-butted one of the nuns, then raped them both while controlling them with the rosary beads around their necks, police said.
Chaska - who went by the name Sister Helena Maria - was strangled by her own beads, according to an autopsy. She was a nun with the Bellevue, Wash., Immaculate Heart of Mary, a small order unaffiliated with the Roman Catholic Church.
Several months before the attack, Esparza was detained and let go by U.S. Border Patrol agents in New Mexico even though he had spent three years in California prisons and had once been deported.
The agents did turn up an old drug charge in Oregon, but Multnomah County passed on extraditing him. The warrant was apparently the only evidence of Esparza's criminal past that surfaced during the checks.
Once Oregon declined to extradite, Esparza was treated like any other undocumented Mexican and was dropped off at the border.




Copyright © 2004 Democrat-Herald


46 posted on 11/17/2004 10:32:40 AM PST by AuntB (Most provisional ballots are from voters not eligible to vote!!! Ask a poll worker!)
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To: BlkConserv
How can they when they've been registered with the government? Once they're apprehended they'll be deported back to their home country because law enforcement will know who they are now.

Aprehended?! You are kidding us aren't you? Heck, our government is [un]able (or more like unwilling) to locate only 400,000 illegal alien absconders ordered deported since before 9/11? That is the same government your referring to isn't it? You really should lay off that funny smelling weed already don't you know.




47 posted on 11/17/2004 10:33:21 AM PST by Ron H. (Amnesty, quasi-amnesty or guest worker, its still all the same thing. Amnesty is bad for Americans!)
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To: usadave
we certainly don't need 15 million Mexican guest workers to pick our produce

Hispanic workers also provide housekeeping in hotels, work in meat-packing facilities, clean offices after-hours, and do construction jobs.

48 posted on 11/17/2004 10:34:36 AM PST by BlkConserv
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To: radicalamericannationalist

"Prosecution of businesses employing illegals has also decreased."

According to a recent Time Magazine report prosecution has decrased by 90% since 1991. There are citizens groups forming to confront these business about this.


49 posted on 11/17/2004 10:37:10 AM PST by AuntB (Most provisional ballots are from voters not eligible to vote!!! Ask a poll worker!)
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To: BlkConserv
There are 300,000 foreign criminals who have gone all the way through the deportation process, been ordered deported, then didn't show up for deportation and are now at large. The government does not know where they are. They have been fingerprinted, photographed, the government "knows where they live", etc., etc.

_________________________

Mary Beth Sheridan

Washington Post Staff Writer

The Washington Post

12-06-2001

INS Seeks Law Enforcement Aid in Crackdown; Move Targets 300,000 Foreign Nationals Living in U.S. Despite Deportation Orders

Byline: Mary Beth Sheridan Washington Post Staff Writer

Edition: FINAL

Section: A Section

U.S. immigration authorities announced yesterday that they have enlisted the help of law enforcement agencies in a crackdown on more than 300,000 foreign nationals who have remained in the country illegally after they were ordered deported. ________________________

these guest workers are not leaving, and the government will not remove them.

50 posted on 11/17/2004 10:37:30 AM PST by Pa' fuera
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