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Congressmen urge Bush to drop guest-worker plan
The Washington Times ^ | November 17, 2004 | Jerry Seper

Posted on 11/17/2004 8:54:21 AM PST by Ron H.

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To: brianl703; Luis Gonzalez
Fiscal year 2004 Southwest Borders Apprehensions:

Oct - 6% increase in illegal alien apprehensions
Nov - 21% increase in illegal alien apprehensions
Dec – 15% increase in illegal alien apprehensions
Jan - 6% increase in illegal alien apprehensions
Feb - 14% increase in illegal alien apprehensions
Mar - 58% increase in illegal alien apprehensions
Apr - 80% increase in illegal alien apprehensions
May - 34% increase in illegal alien apprehensions
Jun - 25% increase in illegal alien apprehensions
Jul - 16% increase in illegal alien apprehensions
Aug - 10% increase in illegal alien apprehensions
Sep – 11% increase in illegal alien apprehensions

Total increase in illegal alien apprehensions for FY 2004 over FY 2003 was 26%.

151 posted on 11/18/2004 5:10:36 AM PST by Marine Inspector (Customs & Border Protection Officer)
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To: BlkConserv
All the President wants to do is register illegal aliens with the federal government so they'll pay taxes, let them work for a few years doing jobs that Americans won't do like picking produce (after these jobs have been posted for 60 days FOR Americans but haven't been filled), and when their guest-worker permits expire, they'll have no choice but to return home.

And it will never work.

152 posted on 11/18/2004 5:12:21 AM PST by Marine Inspector (Customs & Border Protection Officer)
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To: doc30

There also is no way that the elites in Mexico who have no desire to fix the conditions that make them leave would want their citizens returning in 3 years.


153 posted on 11/18/2004 5:22:36 AM PST by FITZ
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To: Luis Gonzalez
If you want to truly stop the flow, then we must help make there as palatable as here...then they'll just stay home.

We don't need to be engaging in another war right now --- it would take us creating a new Mexican Revolution to bring about any changes in that country. The Mexicans don't want improvements that would allow for a middle class --- just like their nationalized oil --- the profits go into a few pockets, they would resist that very strongly.

154 posted on 11/18/2004 5:31:05 AM PST by FITZ
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To: Luis Gonzalez
He fails to address those already here, what do we do with them?

Sending them back would actually be the best way to change Mexico -- some of the illegals have been exposed to a middle class society in the United States -- they have learned there doesn't need to be a two-class society with the handful of Mexican elites taking all the wealth of their country.

Not only that -- some of the illegals have learned to drive tractors instead of using handtools and burros to farm --- they would likely insist on some of the necessary changes that must be made to their very wealth country which has the same natural resources as does the USA.

155 posted on 11/18/2004 5:38:19 AM PST by FITZ
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To: Marine Inspector

Thanks, I was hoping you would clear up the situation, twenty-six percent is not four fold, but it is a significant increase nevertheless.

Are more apprehensions a sign of more efficient border control, or are they a sign of more border activity, and how can you make the distinction?


156 posted on 11/18/2004 6:05:47 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Paperdoll

I don't want to be insulting in any way, but I can tell you two things...

Teenagers today are not the same as they were when you were a teenager, and farms cannot rely on teenagers to do the work.


157 posted on 11/18/2004 6:08:15 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

Teenagers today are not the same as they were when you were a teenager, and farms cannot rely on teenagers to do the work.


Funny you mention that . In my parents neighborhood there are several families with teenagers but guess who I see cutting the grass in the neighborhoods. Lawn Care Services and the employees seem to be of Hispanic descent. I am 20 years old and I have to say that alot of the kids I grew up would never be caught dead working in a Mcdonalds, it would ruin their image I guess. The ideal job for those teens is working at the mall preferabbly in a store and not the food counter. When I think about it the mall eatery employees tend to be asian and hispanic.


158 posted on 11/18/2004 7:24:10 AM PST by Independentamerican (Independent Junior at the University of MD)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

Ants. Take away the sugar, they'll go elsewhere.


159 posted on 11/18/2004 7:27:36 AM PST by brianl703 (Border crossing is a misdemeanor. So is drunk driving. Which do we have more checkpoints for?)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

Good, I look forward to planting some tomatoes in my backyard and selling them for $10 each.


160 posted on 11/18/2004 7:31:53 AM PST by brianl703 (Border crossing is a misdemeanor. So is drunk driving. Which do we have more checkpoints for?)
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To: Independentamerican

I think it depends on where in the country you are.

I'm going to go further and say that the more affluent the part of the country you are in, the less likely those teenagers will be cutting grass and working at fast food restaurants.

You'll NEVER find any teenagers cutting grass or working at fast food restaurants here in Northern Virginia where a typical single-family home sets you back half a million, but in Hanover, PA where that same single-family home might cost $150K, you WILL indeed find teenagers cutting grass and working at fast food restaurants.

Frankly, what I see happening in Northern Virginia is the erosion of the middle class--what is middle class in much of the rest of the country simply cannot afford to live here anymore. So now you have the "upper class" (whose teenage offspring wouldn't degrade themselves by working those "crap jobs") and the "lower/servant class" (who does all of the "crap jobs").

Sounds like that two-tier society that works so well in other countries.


161 posted on 11/18/2004 7:44:39 AM PST by brianl703 (Border crossing is a misdemeanor. So is drunk driving. Which do we have more checkpoints for?)
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To: Independentamerican

Oh, if you're wondering how the "lower/servant class" can manage to afford to live here, wonder no more: They just overcrowd houses. 3 bedrooms, 8 people, that sort of thing.


162 posted on 11/18/2004 7:49:54 AM PST by brianl703 (Border crossing is a misdemeanor. So is drunk driving. Which do we have more checkpoints for?)
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To: Independentamerican

Oh, Kerry won Fairfax County (Northern Virginia's most populous county, which Bush won in 2000) and I also believe that areas without a strong middle class presence tend to swing to the left, politically. Washington, DC is a fine example, Bush won 9% of the vote there.

I predict that Fairfax County will start turning bluer and bluer as the years go on.


163 posted on 11/18/2004 7:55:55 AM PST by brianl703 (Border crossing is a misdemeanor. So is drunk driving. Which do we have more checkpoints for?)
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To: brianl703

I predict that Fairfax County will start turning bluer and bluer as the years go on.

Yeah I am from Howard County MD and I know Fairfax county rather well. I was looking to purchase an investment property in that area but could not find a Townhome in that area for under $350K. So I came back to Howard County and found one for a little under 225k. Most of the single family homes in Howard County sell for 500k and above but the surprising thing is the Republican party gained votes this time around.


164 posted on 11/18/2004 8:19:33 AM PST by Independentamerican (Independent Junior at the University of MD)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Are more apprehensions a sign of more efficient border control, or are they a sign of more border activity, and how can you make the distinction?

It's hard to make the distinction, but my guess is it's both.

165 posted on 11/18/2004 8:47:05 AM PST by Marine Inspector (Customs & Border Protection Officer)
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To: Joe Hadenuf
What's up with Bush? What's his real agenda?

FOLLOW THE MONEY!

166 posted on 11/18/2004 9:12:48 AM PST by iconoclast (Conservative, not partisan)
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To: BlkConserv
I did not ask why the gov't has not increased spending, I asked why they refuse to secure the border. They are two different questions. I think that we are moving in the right direction, but my question was directed at the reasoning behind why the government appears to be afraid of offending people by requiring foreign nationals to enter this country through official channels. Heck, in some jurisdictions, the police are not allowed to report illegals caught breaking the law to the INS! Drives me nutz!.
167 posted on 11/18/2004 9:18:04 AM PST by FairfaxVA (SELECT * FROM liberals WHERE clue > 0. Zero rows returned!)
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To: BlkConserv
Once they're apprehended they'll be deported back to their home country

I hope you're being sarcastic. ;o)

168 posted on 11/18/2004 9:30:17 AM PST by iconoclast (Conservative, not partisan)
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To: iconoclast

Just wanted to see who's paying attention. Follow the money is right.


169 posted on 11/18/2004 9:57:04 AM PST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: brianl703
But no, your idea of capitalism appears to be what the executives of Enron, Global Crossing and others think that it is. A quick buck, damn the future consequences.

I never condoned the practices of certain employers who hire illegals and in fact condemned them in a previous post by saying what they're doing is not good. All I'm saying is that Congress and liberals in both parties have spoiled the business climate with high taxes, suffocating regulations, and unfair trade policies.

170 posted on 11/18/2004 10:09:44 AM PST by BlkConserv
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To: EagleMamaMT
As they say in the South, you don't know your butt from a hole in the ground.

As they say in the 'hood, "Man, I ain't trying to work there dog over that s--t G!"

171 posted on 11/18/2004 10:12:13 AM PST by BlkConserv
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To: SealSeven
In order to receive welfare, current (American) citizens on welfare will be required to work these "jobs Americans dont want" in order to receive welfare.

If they were working these jobs they wouldn't need welfare then, right? The fact that they aren't means that they don't want to and no amount of government force isn't going to make them.

Speaking of water....UH, AHEM...

172 posted on 11/18/2004 10:16:12 AM PST by BlkConserv
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To: FairfaxVA

Did you know about Virginia's new law targeting felonious illegal aliens that took effect July 1?

That's the sort of thing we need more of.


173 posted on 11/18/2004 10:16:29 AM PST by brianl703 (Border crossing is a misdemeanor. So is drunk driving. Which do we have more checkpoints for?)
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To: brianl703

...and the sugar is not just jobs.


174 posted on 11/18/2004 11:30:01 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Teenagers today are not the same as they were when you were a teenager, and farms cannot rely on teenagers to do the work.

My guess is that's because Mommy and Daddy are not the same as they were a long time ago. Mommy and Daddy (not all, but some) just want to give Junior all the things they could never have themselves, or all the things money can buy. And spoil them in the process. Parents...

175 posted on 11/18/2004 11:36:28 AM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Deport 'em all; let Fox sort 'em out!)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

No, it's more than that. Driver's licenses, for example.


176 posted on 11/18/2004 11:46:44 AM PST by brianl703 (Border crossing is a misdemeanor. So is drunk driving. Which do we have more checkpoints for?)
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To: Ron H.
"It is our hope that in future discussions with the Mexican government, you will encourage Mexico to do its part to address illegal immigration rather than encourage their citizens to illegally enter the U.S.," said Rep. Elton Gallegly, California Republican.. "Cooperation with our close neighbor Mexico is essential, but we also feel that Mexico must respect our sovereignty and our laws

This man is a breath of fresh air. It is also nice to know there are a few politicians left that have retained their sanity when it comes to illegals, Mexico and our sovereignty.

177 posted on 11/18/2004 1:02:00 PM PST by dougherty (I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free. - Michelangelo)
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To: nanak
Tom Tancredo 2008 = Last Hope to Save America

That would be a dream come true. I wonder if he is really considering it?

178 posted on 11/18/2004 1:13:02 PM PST by dougherty (I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free. - Michelangelo)
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To: BlkConserv
and when their guest-worker permits expire, they'll have no choice but to return home.

Hehehe, that has to be the funniest thing I've read on FR in awhile.

179 posted on 11/18/2004 1:18:36 PM PST by dougherty (I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free. - Michelangelo)
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To: BlkConserv
Spending on border patrols and enforcement has increased under President Bush.

Maybe so, but it's still not working.

180 posted on 11/18/2004 1:22:43 PM PST by dougherty (I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free. - Michelangelo)
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To: brianl703

No I was not aware..I'll have to check into that, thanks. And yes, we do need more laws like that. Too long have these people been abusing our system.


181 posted on 11/18/2004 2:43:02 PM PST by FairfaxVA (SELECT * FROM liberals WHERE clue > 0. Zero rows returned!)
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To: BlkConserv

"f they were working these jobs they wouldn't need welfare then, right?"

Wrong

Could you keep a roof over your head, food on the table and clothes on your back for 5.15/hr (Especially if you have a family)?
Welfare would still be needed to some degree... Just not as much.

Try again -


182 posted on 11/18/2004 4:32:54 PM PST by SealSeven
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To: BlkConserv

I forgot one thing:

"The fact that they aren't means that they don't want to and no amount of government force isn't going to make them."

They will have no choice. If they want welfare, they MUST work. Otherwise, they are SOL.

The water has now turned to mud -


183 posted on 11/18/2004 4:39:49 PM PST by SealSeven
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

"Teenagers today are not the same as they were when you were a teenager, and farms cannot rely on teenagers to do the work."


What are you basing this on? Give me some stats -


184 posted on 11/18/2004 4:45:06 PM PST by SealSeven
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To: Luis Gonzalez
On KFI radio, the head of the Border Patrol agents union, a fellow named Bonner, I believe, described the fourfold increase. There was also a Washington Times article on it in Jan/FEb that I am trying to track down.
185 posted on 11/18/2004 4:47:26 PM PST by radicalamericannationalist (The Senate is our new goal: 60 in '06.)
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To: radicalamericannationalist

The Washington Times? That conservative rag? You can't believe anything they say.

/sarcasm


186 posted on 11/18/2004 6:57:18 PM PST by brianl703 (Border crossing is a misdemeanor. So is drunk driving. Which do we have more checkpoints for?)
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To: brianl703
Oh, if you're wondering how the "lower/servant class" can manage to afford to live here, wonder no more: They just overcrowd houses. 3 bedrooms, 8 people, that sort of thing.

Don't forget the very very generous government housing subsidies handed out right and left. Those are a big part of the housing boom here on this part of the border --- another goodie provided by the taxpayers --- the government is practically giving housing away.

187 posted on 11/18/2004 11:18:38 PM PST by FITZ
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To: SealSeven

That's not my assertion. I did, however, make a guess that the change in teenagers, if true, had something to do with the parents.


188 posted on 11/19/2004 3:22:02 AM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Deport 'em all; let Fox sort 'em out!)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Please accept my apologies.
And, I agree with your statement.


189 posted on 11/19/2004 3:41:42 AM PST by SealSeven
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To: SealSeven

No problemo.


190 posted on 11/19/2004 4:24:40 AM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Deport 'em all; let Fox sort 'em out!)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Didn't know that one. I'll have to find a new running mate for Tancredo.


191 posted on 11/19/2004 5:33:36 PM PST by nonliberal (Up the feces tributary without a means of locomotion.)
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To: Maceman

All you have to get is that President Bush truly believes in his foolhardy "temporary" amnesty plan.


192 posted on 11/19/2004 5:36:26 PM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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