Posted on 11/19/2004 8:48:03 PM PST by Taggart_D
Oh yeah, there are NEVER any brawls in the NHL. EVER!
Please.
This was a terribly ugly incident, but it was also one of a kind: in looking for parallels ESPN showed mostly hockey, actually.
I think these guys should be harshly reprimanded, but I also don't think this represents the NBA in its totality. Is there a thug culture in the NBA? Sure, but there are also a lot of players who take their position as role models fairly seriously.
[...is simply not an issue in the big scheme of things...]
Not and issue??? I think the overriding issue is that sports in this country is no longer entertainment for the family. Its sport for animals or thugs who want a cheap thrill or a chance to punch someone out.....when that state arrives you will see cost of tickets go down along with revenue...along with player salaries.
Not an issue in the big scheme of things???? I guess you're expectations aren't that high.
where is Spud Webb when you need him
I think you're engaged in silly posturing. My point was that the little promo with Terrell Owens was not all that different from things that have been done for years. Some people hyperventilate about them, but they are harmless. The poor behavior of Ron Artest is a serious issue, and that seriousness of that issue only emphasizes how silly the flap over the Terrell Owens skit was.
I always enjoy the thoughtful comments from many folks on this site, but I can't help rolling my eyes and laughing at the ones whose condemnation of Ron Artest goes something like this: "Gee, it was just a cup of beer -- why did Artest have to overreact like that?"
Ummm ... gee, it was just a foul -- why did Ben Wallace have to overreact like that?
Because if he hadn't, we wouldn't be having this conversation. And THAT is the bottomline...
Truth is, in the same situation, I can't gurantee I wouldn't have "overreacted" just like Ron Artest.
P.S. Say what you want about Indiana sports fans, but there is no way anything similar will happen when the Pistons come to town on Christmas Day. Sorry, Detroit, this will be your reputation to live down, and it's not going to go away anytime soon. Maybe you should tell Pistons management to consider hiring a few security guards instead of assigning the task to people who weren't smart enough to be popcorn salesmen
Welcome to Free Republic!
I have to admit that i am a die hard Pistons Fan so i am a little partial to them, however, before i am a fan, i am an equal person.
Everybody wants to blame everybody but the bottom line is that things are gonna happen and this time it just really got out of hand.
I dont blame Ben Wallace...Big surprise there but most of the people That are placing all this blame didnt have the opportunity to sit there and watch the WHOLE ENTIRE GAME much like most of the people that left idiotic remarks on this site. Ron Artest had been bangin with Ben since the playoffs. Its hardly a secret that there is bad blood but throughout the game there was a lot of bangin between the two.Mostly Artest but we all know hes that kinda player. The same kind of player that Bill Laimbeer was. I dont like Artest but i enjoy his hardnosed style of play. We pay good money to see people get emotional.However there is a history and on the seemingly lost previous play, Ben Wallace laid a clean block knocking the ball against the glass totally embarassing Artest. Needless to say he thought he was fouled and when no whistle was blown he took matters into his own hands.This happens in every game. Ben uncharacteristicly overreacted. This also happens in every game.The Thing that got it all started was far from the reason it ended the way it did. Artest then played it cool...too cool i think. But nevertheless to that point he wasn't to blame...neither was Ben.
THE FANS- Yes a fan did throw a beer at Artest and riled him up. But i can hardly say that they were to blame. The pacers have been shouting obscenities to the croud all night. Everybody knows that there are a handfull of jerks in every arena in every sport and as a professional you have to deal with that. Let security do their job.If your in retail most of the time you have good days but just stop and think if every ONE time somebody pissed you off, you jumped over the counter and beat the crap out of them. Its a sorry excuse i know but everybody knows people suck. the fan activity could have happened at any arena. As for the fans coming on the court talkin crazy...I thinkk its pretty safe to say that they got what they came for. Im a fan but when Artest unloaded on that guy that started yellin at him on the court...I laughed. I still do. Most of Detroit does. I imagine everybody except his family cuz im thinkin most of his friends are laughin too. And soon he will be laughin all the way to the bank.Money is the root of all evil.
SECURITY- To blame them is just stupid. And calling them stupid makes the insulter seem that much more ignorant. When was the last time you saw a security guard with a PhD. And no matter how smart or effective security is, no rabble of mindless guards have ever or will ever stop a mob.
RACE- I didnt think that this threat could wax more idiotic.Hockey players fight every night albeit they dont spill over into the stands but they do have 10 foot barriers protecting them. Maybe thats why when people throw things on the ice, they dont get the business.Soccer Riots occur much too often.Nascar drivers avarage a fight after every five races. This i know and i dont even watch racing but the world is fixated on negativity so there you go. And out of the three biggest fights in the NBA prior to this event, 2 of them were between or involved white players. Although i have never seen puches thrown quite like the pacers displayed.But that has nothing to do with race.
BEER- Thats just stupid. Yea beer makes people a little crazy but do you know how drunk that guy had to be to throw a cup of beer at the Palace. I dont drink beer but do you know how much championship beer cost these days. If he could afford to throw that beer, Artest wouldn't have had to jump overr all those rows of seats...cuz the guy could afford floor. seats. thats what i was getting at.
BOTTOM LINE-EVERY BODY OVERREACTED so i guess everybody is at fault and now everybody will have to pay. I think we should all pull together and focus on ther funny...If you watch the tape again you will notice there was a man that artest had to attempt to jump over to get into the stands...emphasis on WAS. He can now say that he has known a man cuz artest certainly didnt make it OVER this man. The sliding punch to the fan by oneil...classic. Steven Jackson managing to keep that headband barely on his head while mashin the croud...talent. Sorry to have taken so much space.
Today the professionals, and many college players, have turned it into a farce.
And, like I said, there are no excuses to be made here. If they can figure out who tossed the cups of beer (not bottles...they don't sell bottles in the Palace like some have suggested), they ought to never be allowed to set foot in the arena again. Same goes for the few that charged onto the court.
I was just stressing that Artest isn't any more innocent in this whole situation (as you suggested) than Wallace, Jackson, or the fans.
After the election, it was the "how could 59 million people be so stupid" or "Bush voters are unenlightened, ignorant, and stupid."
You got me going with: "and then being attacked by a mob of 20,000 drunk and out of control fans".
The fans that participated in the action should receive harshest of treatments. They violated a trust that exists between the players and fans.
But, the larger 20,000 fan contingent shouldn't be painted with the same brush, nor should the community. It's unavoidable, and it's already happening in newsrooms and chatrooms around the country. But it's just irresponsible and wrong to make that generalization.
NHL players HAVE brawled with fans, as have MLB players. Like I said, they were showing it on Sportscenter all weekend.
Athletics are based partially upon violence, and it is unsurprising that SOME athletes can't control their testosterone-fueled urges. Hockey is a more violent sport than basketball, so it shouldn't surprise people that hockey players are, in general, more violent than basketball players.
And I don't know how you can get off saying the typical nba play is a "god damned animal." It's simply not true. The typical NBA player is an overpayed jock, the same as almost all professional athletes. Jocks often aren't the smartest or nicest of people, but it seems to me most NBA players take their role as a public figure relatively seriously.
I lost interest in the NBA years ago also. It is like watching pro. wrestling. What a bore.
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