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Teens with assault rifle charged on gun counts (media gun story BARF ALERT)
The Buffalo News ^ | November 22, 2004 | No one claims this beauty

Posted on 11/22/2004 8:41:06 AM PST by DocH

Two Buffalo teenagers were arrested early Sunday after police said they found a loaded, assault rifle in the car in which they were sitting. Demetrius McGee, 16, of Davidson Street, and Denell A. Baker, 18, of Tennyson Street, were charged with two counts of criminal weapons possession.

Officers investigating a complaint on Box Avenue said they found the two in a maroon Pontiac Grand Am with a Ruger Mini 14 .233-caliber rifle, an adaptable, machine gun-type weapon.

The rifle was loaded with a magazine containing nine rounds of ammunition with one bullet in the chamber, according to the report. Police said they also found an additional magazine containing five rounds of ammunition.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Politics/Elections; US: New York
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; assaultweapon; bang; banglist; gun; rifle; teens
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My response...

Dear Editor, I, and most gun owners that strongly support and defend our 2nd Amendment rights, and also support the swift and severe punishment of criminals who misuse firearms, WANT to think that incorrect information in articles concerning guns are just MISTAKES due to ignorance. However, we see so many of these mistakes day after day, that we wonder if there is not some anti-gun agenda at play with the "mainstream" media.

Before the so-called "Assault Weapons Ban" sunsetted, ABC Nightly News played the audio and video of the North Hollywood bank robbers using illegal FULL-AUTOMATIC weapons, while doing a story about Bill Clinton's SEMI-automatic weapons ban. The media did the VERY SAME thing before the ban was passed in 1994. What are we, that believe in our 2nd Amendment rights, to think?

Now, in your story titled, "Teens with assault rifle charged on gun counts", you further certain misconceptions about so-called "assault weapons". You call a Ruger Mini-14 an "assault weapon" which, by the way, Bill Clinton didn't even do (it was NOT on his list of banned weapons). You further show your ignorance regarding the caliber of this firearm, which you describe as being a ".233-caliber rifle". It is, in fact, a .223 caliber rifle.

In line with the ABC News story mentioned above, you go on to say that this rifle is "an adaptable, machine gun-type weapon". It is no such thing, and in fact, like the vast majority of all semi-auto weapons, it is NOT readily converted to full-auto function without EXTENSIVE gunsmithing knowledge & capability, and special parts (even full-auto PARTS are strictly controlled by law and the BATF, with these PARTS considered "machine guns" themselves).

Further, your story appears to not even concern the use of high-capacity magazines, which also USED to be banned under Clinton's gun ban. You say in your story that, "The rifle was loaded with a magazine containing nine rounds of ammunition with one bullet in the chamber", and that police "also found an additional magazine containing five rounds of ammunition". It sounds like either both magazines were perfectly legal, ban or no ban, 10 round magazines (perhaps the second one was even a 5-rounder).

Even IF you have an antigun slant, please at least TRY to be more fair & balanced in your reporting. If it is just a matter of ignorance, then please either get your reporters better educated on the subject (the NRA, or a local gun club might be able to help you here), or hire reporters that have been around guns to do these type of reports.

1 posted on 11/22/2004 8:41:07 AM PST by DocH
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To: DocH
an adaptable, machine gun-type weapon

Where to start, where to start.............

2 posted on 11/22/2004 8:43:43 AM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: DocH

Is it illegal to own a rifle in New York state? What exactly was the "crime" here?


3 posted on 11/22/2004 8:45:53 AM PST by Time is now (We'll live to see it......or something like it....)
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To: DocH
Ruger Mini 14 .233-caliber rifle, an adaptable, machine gun-type weapon


Quiz time kiddies.

The author of this "news" report is:

1.) A congenital liar
2.) Profoundly mentally retarded
3.) Both of the above
4 posted on 11/22/2004 8:46:08 AM PST by holymoly ("A lot" is TWO words.)
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To: DocH

Another Freeper might know better than me, but isn't it a real PITA to convert the Mini-14 to full auto?


5 posted on 11/22/2004 8:46:51 AM PST by hiredhand ( "Pudge the Indestructible Kitty" lives at - http:/www.justonemorefarm.com)
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To: Time is now

Probably the ages of the boys has something to do with it?


6 posted on 11/22/2004 8:47:25 AM PST by basil
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: DocH
Hey Doc,

Good on you. Keep up the detail work. These agendaites will never quit but occasionally they may print a letter, and some of the public will be better informed.

8 posted on 11/22/2004 8:50:34 AM PST by Navy Patriot
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To: DocH
Demetrius and Denell...

Gang Bangers? Does not excuse this reporters blatant bias and even more blatant stupidity, but it could go towards explaining the charges.

I'm a 2A hardliner that sees nothing wrong in what they were doing, ie; driving around with a loaded weapon in the car. However, these two sounded like either a hit-and-run robbery or a drive-by shooting waiting to happen.

It could just be that I've seen one to many movies and the stereotype does not fit these circumstances. Due to crappy reporting, we really don't have a lot of details to go by...

Any more info available?

9 posted on 11/22/2004 8:50:48 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: basil

One of them was 18. That should cover the age issue.

Not being from Buffalo, is Box Avenue a drug district? Where the perps white? Who called in the complaint? Is sitting in your car now a misdemeanor in New York?


11 posted on 11/22/2004 8:51:27 AM PST by Time is now (We'll live to see it......or something like it....)
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To: hiredhand

Any semi-auto can be made to fire full auto with the right knowledge. To fire safely in full auto takes a good sense of machining. Otherwise you risk destroying the gun after a few shots.
There are alot of yahoos out therewho try and make the SKS full auto. They stupidly file down a certain part which controls the trigger. As a result it fires full auto... even without pulling the trigger.


12 posted on 11/22/2004 8:52:30 AM PST by Bogey78O (Kerry surrendered Florida faster than he surrendered the Mekong Delta)
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To: DocH

Perhaps the MSM needs a list of weapons classified by type.


13 posted on 11/22/2004 8:53:33 AM PST by TaxRelief (out-of-the-closet conservative)
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To: Bogey78O
Any semi-auto can be made to fire full auto with the right knowledge. To fire safely in full auto takes a good sense of machining. Otherwise you risk destroying the gun after a few shots.

There are alot of yahoos out therewho try and make the SKS full auto. They stupidly file down a certain part which controls the trigger. As a result it fires full auto... even without pulling the trigger.


I should have been a little more specific. :-) What I meant was....is it a "drop in parts" job?
14 posted on 11/22/2004 8:55:12 AM PST by hiredhand ( "Pudge the Indestructible Kitty" lives at - http:/www.justonemorefarm.com)
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To: DocH
Reporters don't know shotguns from rifles, and don't WANT to know. They consider knowledge about firearms to be disgusting, like knowledge of the inner workings of the kiddie porn industry. They are incorrigible, there is no use scolding them. They are PROUD of their ignorance concerning guns.


15 posted on 11/22/2004 8:55:30 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Dead Corpse

I agree. With names like Demetrius and Dennell (the "Smuckers" of gang bangers?), I bet you are right. Then again, they could have been stopped by "the man" for just DWB, huh? :) I also agree that, without any info regarding possible illegal activity, what's wrong with a couple of boys driving around with a loaded rifle? Perfectly normal in most Red states, especially in the country. Must be some age restrictions, and/or firearms transport law in New York state that got them the firearms related charges. I haven't seen any other info on this, and don't really expect to hear anything back from the newspaper regarding my letter to them. By the way, what does your Latin quote mean?


16 posted on 11/22/2004 8:57:42 AM PST by DocH (Release ALL your Navy records AND your private journal Kerry!)
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To: Dead Corpse
Due to crappy reporting, we really don't have a lot of details to go by...

BINGO! They gave more "details" about the firearm (although most of that was wrong) than about the perpetrators of whatever it is they were supposed to have perpetrated.

So who's on 'trial' here? 'alleged criminals' or the guns?

17 posted on 11/22/2004 8:58:45 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (I'm from North Dakota and I'm all FOR Global Warming! Bring it ON!)
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To: Travis McGee
I'd bet they know a lot more about kiddie porn than firearms.....
18 posted on 11/22/2004 9:00:27 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (I'm from North Dakota and I'm all FOR Global Warming! Bring it ON!)
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To: DocH
LOL! Another example of how liberal journalists routinely enagage in "assault journalism" concerning the gun issue.

They're absolutely clueless beyond measure.

19 posted on 11/22/2004 9:00:44 AM PST by Reactionary
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To: hiredhand
but isn't it a real PITA to convert the Mini-14 to full auto?

Given the extensive amount of gunsmithing necessary, you might as well turn your hot water pipes into full auto at that point.

20 posted on 11/22/2004 9:00:47 AM PST by blanknoone (The last time the Dems talked of secession it was to keep blacks as slaves.)
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To: Reactionary

OR... is it a vast left-wing, anti-gun conspiracy?


21 posted on 11/22/2004 9:01:41 AM PST by DocH (Release ALL your Navy records AND your private journal Kerry!)
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To: ChenangoShooter.308

Also, federal hunting laws cover rifles in vehicles and require they be unloaded.


22 posted on 11/22/2004 9:03:15 AM PST by shellshocked
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To: Travis McGee

Have your book and read it a couple of times so far. It is good-to-go.

As far as your comments go, I agree generally, but I will continue to call 'em on it when I see blatant B.S. being foisted on us as "news" and "facts".


23 posted on 11/22/2004 9:06:08 AM PST by DocH (Release ALL your Navy records AND your private journal Kerry!)
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To: DocH
Exactly. Excellent letter BTW...

By the way, what does your Latin quote mean?

"When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults."

24 posted on 11/22/2004 9:09:21 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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To: Dead Corpse

Thanks, and I like the quote.


25 posted on 11/22/2004 9:11:01 AM PST by DocH (Release ALL your Navy records AND your private journal Kerry!)
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To: DocH

You're right. It's always worth trying to pour some knowledge into their pea-brains. Once in a while a reporter actually takes a dare and goes to a range, and usually they find they enjoy shooting.


26 posted on 11/22/2004 9:12:45 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: DocH

Core legal issue is date of manufacture. If made before Sept '94, it's legal in NY.


27 posted on 11/22/2004 9:13:15 AM PST by ctdonath2
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To: Smokin' Joe

LOL! No doubt!


28 posted on 11/22/2004 9:13:21 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: DocH
........Ruger Mini 14 .233-caliber rifle, an adaptable, machine gun-type weapon.

The rifle was loaded with a magazine containing nine rounds of ammunition with one bullet in the chamber, according to the report. Police said they also found an additional magazine containing five rounds of ammunition.

Wow! Now a Mini 14 is a machine gun......
Worse than that! They had an extra clip with 5 (That's right Five! Count them) rounds.

Obviously young terrorists.
</sarcasm>

29 posted on 11/22/2004 9:20:43 AM PST by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: blanknoone

Actually, my hot water pipes are already on full-auto. I turn the knob on the left once, and hot water keeps pouring out until it's either all gone, or I shut the knob off again...

Here in Connecticut, just about everything is illegal. It's pathetic. I'd imagine the crime there was the age (21 to have possession of a firearm), and in New York State, they have to meet very strict transportation criteria to be legal in a car. They have to be in a clear container, with the ammunition in a separate container, or some such stupid thing as that. I wanted to carry my Sig through New York once, and it was such a PITA to conform that I just decided to scrap the idea.


30 posted on 11/22/2004 9:57:02 AM PST by SASsySIGster (Happiness is a Belt-Fed Weapon)
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To: DocH
Demetrius ... Denell

They may have been working on enhancing their image for a career in rap music.

31 posted on 11/22/2004 9:57:58 AM PST by PAR35
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To: Time is now

This sounds like a typical news headline from England. "Man Found with GUN!" Over there it doesn't matter why you had it.


32 posted on 11/22/2004 9:59:52 AM PST by Sender (Team Infidel USA)
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To: Bogey78O

I love my SKS, I have a proper Russian model but with a Chinese stock due to my short arms. Never once thought to make it fully auto. if WWIII comes i guess i will be sorry.


33 posted on 11/22/2004 10:10:34 AM PST by Docbarleypop (Navy Doc)
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To: Fiddlstix

does anyone have a pic of this gun since i am not familiar with it?


34 posted on 11/22/2004 10:13:24 AM PST by Docbarleypop (Navy Doc)
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To: Docbarleypop

Click the Pick for Ruger's website...

35 posted on 11/22/2004 10:15:10 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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To: ChenangoShooter.308
ChenangoShooter.308 said: "Having the loaded weapon in the vehicle is unlawful, you're supposed to hav it unloaded and seperate from the ammo in NYS"

Their version of the Second Amendment must protect the right to keep and bear unloaded, disassembled arms. The sensibleness of this attitude is reflected in the fact that all their law enforcement officers carry unloaded guns. NOT!

36 posted on 11/22/2004 11:08:16 AM PST by William Tell
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Comment #37 Removed by Moderator

To: DocH

I thought Mini-14's were 7.62?


38 posted on 11/22/2004 12:04:26 PM PST by chudogg (www.chudogg.blogspot.com)
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To: chudogg
The Ruger MINI-14 has only been made in .223 Remington or 7.62 x 39 (this round is shorter than 7.62 NATO, and is used in SKS's and the AK-47 and variants, among other weapons). The military M-14, or the M1A semi-auto only version of the M-14 was/is made in 7.62 x 51 NATO or .308 Winchester, respectively.

Interestingly enough, and despite popular belief, the .223 Remington and the 5.56 x 45 NATO are slightly different rounds, as are the 7.62 x 51 NATO and the .308 Winchester.

39 posted on 11/22/2004 1:41:43 PM PST by DocH (Release ALL your Navy records AND your private journal Kerry!)
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To: chudogg
I told you that the Ruger MINI-14 had only been made in .223 Remington and 7.62 x 39, but thegunzone.com has an article that says it was also made in 5.56 NATO. Here's a part of that article,

"At the October 2001 IALEFI Conference in Reno, Nevada, Giles Stock, retired from Phoenix Police Department after 20 years service, discussed the differences between the .223 Remington/SAAMI and 5.56mm/NATO rifle chambers. The long-time range master for handgun, rifle, carbine and shotgun at Gunsite and developer of the acclaimed Giles Tactical Sling suggested that, as a general rule, recreational rifles have the former, and military rifles the latter... but there is some overlap, most notably in the popular Sturm Ruger Mini-14 which has been offered in both specifications!".

I learned something new today too.

40 posted on 11/22/2004 1:51:46 PM PST by DocH (Release ALL your Navy records AND your private journal Kerry!)
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To: DocH

So using the NATO round in your .223 chamber causes what to happen?

waiting for the rest of the story.


41 posted on 11/22/2004 3:35:58 PM PST by Apogee
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To: DocH
I would be careful around two guys named Demetrius and Denell.
42 posted on 11/22/2004 4:23:51 PM PST by Max Combined (Clinton is "the notorious Oval Office onanist ")
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To: DocH
I don't think it is very hard to turn a Mini 14 into an automatic.
43 posted on 11/22/2004 4:25:15 PM PST by Max Combined (Clinton is "the notorious Oval Office onanist ")
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To: hiredhand
I think it just involves a little filing.
44 posted on 11/22/2004 4:26:13 PM PST by Max Combined (Clinton is "the notorious Oval Office onanist ")
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To: Max Combined
I think it just involves a little filing.

Well...what I meant was....

As in the case of the FAL....if you install the auto ejector block, selector switch, and sear, it's pretty much a "drop in" job. At least with the STG-58.

I was wondering if it was similar with the Ruger Mini-14.
45 posted on 11/22/2004 5:28:33 PM PST by hiredhand ( "Pudge the Indestructible Kitty" lives at - http://www.justonemorefarm.com)
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To: Apogee
Different headspace, case thickness, higher chamber pressures for 5.56 than .223, etc. So for instance, a model 700 Remington bolt action varmint rifle in .223 Remington may only be good to go for a chamber pressure of 50,000 psi, while a AR-15/M-16 in 5.56 is rated for up to 60,000 psi. I'm not an expert, but this is the way I understand it. You can read more about it at

http://www.thegunzone.com/556v223.html

or this url

http://www3.sympatico.ca/shooters/7_62vs308.htm

46 posted on 11/22/2004 7:40:14 PM PST by DocH (Release ALL your Navy records AND your private journal Kerry!)
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To: Max Combined

You can file down the disconnect/disconnector on most any semi-auto, but this is not safe or useful for any sort of controlled, accurate fire. It is also not good for the gun, since it is not designed to function in this way. I had a 1911 frame with a Colt .22 lr conversion unit installed on it. I was shooting one day, and it went full auto on me. The disconnect/disconnector had failed or become too worn (I don't remember which, it was so long ago). Not a good thing, so I had a gunsmith replace the old one.


47 posted on 11/22/2004 7:46:01 PM PST by DocH (Release ALL your Navy records AND your private journal Kerry!)
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To: DocH
Yes it is easier technically to make a full auto than a semi-auto as you have to include a disconnector.

Most high caliber semi-auto's are very difficult to convert to full auto although a lot of old cheap .22's were very easy.

BTW if it is a mini 14 it is in .223, if it is the .30 Russian short then it is the mini 30.

48 posted on 11/22/2004 7:54:25 PM PST by yarddog
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To: yarddog

I've got an old remington that goes full auto on me every 1000 rounds or so when the sear wears.


49 posted on 11/22/2004 8:06:54 PM PST by B4Ranch (The lack of alcohol in my coffee is forcing me to see reality!)
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To: B4Ranch
I once had one of the little Beretta Minx .22 short pistols go full auto and it enptied the mag so fast it was like one short roar.

Interestingly, I never did figure out how and it never did it again.

50 posted on 11/22/2004 8:11:18 PM PST by yarddog
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