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"This is the Way God Made Me":A Scientific Examination of Homosexuality and the "Gay Gene"
Apologetics Press, Inc ^ | 2003 | Brad Harrub, Ph.D., Bert Thompson, Ph.D., Dave Miller, Ph.D.

Posted on 11/22/2004 2:39:49 PM PST by Ed Current

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To: Ed Current

bump


51 posted on 11/22/2004 4:01:35 PM PST by jonno (We are NOT a democracy - though we are democratic. We ARE a constitutional republic.)
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To: Jeff Blogworthy

Queers are made not born. Most Pschychiatrists are crazy as loons.


52 posted on 11/22/2004 4:02:04 PM PST by sgtbono2002
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To: perdiem

Feel free.

I have made my life here an open book for all for many years.

And I have freely confessed many sins here that I hopefully never ever engage in again, and NONE of them were something I was born with.


53 posted on 11/22/2004 4:03:44 PM PST by RaceBannon (Arab Media pulled out of Fallujah; Could we get the MSM to pull out of America??)
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To: sgtbono2002

NAILED IT!
BULLSEYE!


54 posted on 11/22/2004 4:04:04 PM PST by Ed Current
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To: Ed Current

I love you for this.
Thank you!


55 posted on 11/22/2004 4:05:52 PM PST by netmilsmom (Zell on DEM Christianity, "They can hum the tune, but can't sing the song.")
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To: mariabush

All I did was post an article! :)

However, I believe in what was said wholeheartedly!


56 posted on 11/22/2004 4:06:01 PM PST by RaceBannon (Arab Media pulled out of Fallujah; Could we get the MSM to pull out of America??)
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To: perdiem
Shall we turn the microscope on YOUR life now?

Why should we? Feel free to turn the microscope on heterosexuality in general though, and those of us without "issues" won't try to imply that YOUR personal life should be scrutinized as well.

57 posted on 11/22/2004 4:08:38 PM PST by AndyTheBear (Disastrous social experimentation is the opiate of elitist snobs.)
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To: Ed Current

Well you are 1/2 right on this. God did make/created you but you made the choice to be a HOMOSEXUAL! God don't make JUNK! You make trash out of your life by your evil lifestyle! You are wrong and will burn in Hell if you don't repent. Homosexuality is an abomination to Jehova God (his words not mine)! I do concour however!


58 posted on 11/22/2004 4:10:19 PM PST by winker
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To: RaceBannon

Its surprisig the amount of people that think G-d makes mistakes.


59 posted on 11/22/2004 4:10:28 PM PST by ET(end tyranny)
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To: Jeff Blogworthy

As far as the Moral code of the law, I think people are making a mistake trying to separate the Law in the form of ceremony vs moral code from the period of Grace.

(Gal 2:16 KJV) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Paul here made absolutely no distinction between Ceremony and Moral precept, for the idea of ceremony had to have a moral precept, did it not?

Else, why the ceremony? Why would the Lord institute a ceremony which had no moral precept for it to be based on?


60 posted on 11/22/2004 4:11:04 PM PST by RaceBannon (Arab Media pulled out of Fallujah; Could we get the MSM to pull out of America??)
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To: Ed Current

I am certain that it has been scientifically proven that Levi 501's are the gay gene.


61 posted on 11/22/2004 4:12:38 PM PST by Always Right
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To: RaceBannon
Most of them call it a lifestyle. Lifestyles are taught not born.
62 posted on 11/22/2004 4:12:52 PM PST by ET(end tyranny)
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To: Ed Current

Some evidence suggests that it is more likely a result of variations in hormonal environment within the womb, than a direct genetic effect.

1. Take the example of genetic (XX) females, with congenital adrenal hyperplasia. There is a definite physical masculinization, though not always to the point of producing fully male external genitals (in some cases that has happened). The young girls show masculine behavior patterns, and they also exhibit a higher incidence of lesbianism than the average population. It is clear those girls have experience a prenatal masculinization of their brains.

2. Take the case of women with AIS (androgen insensitivity syndrome). They are very attractive, feminine women, but a chromosome count reveals they are XY. They lack the ability to respond to testosterone. They identify as women, but their genetic sex is not in accordance with their body and gender identity. They are also attracted to men. They are definitely not men.

3. Another example, is women with gonadal agenesis, where the gonads fail to develop. Their body type is female, and they have a clitoris, vagina, and uterus, regardless of whether they are XX or XY genotype. They identify as women.

There is some evidence, but tenuous at present, that suggests the factor in male homosexuality is related to a hyper-masculinization of some part of the brain (most probably in the hypothalamus). This in contrast to the case of (XY)individuals with gender identity problems, who appear to have a lack of masculinization of the BSTC region of the hypothalamus.

More research is needed on subject.


63 posted on 11/22/2004 4:15:09 PM PST by punster
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To: winker
Commentary on contemporary issues from a Torah perspective
Condemnation of homosexuality, however, is by no means directed at specific ancient rituals alone. Among the cardinal sins of Judaism, which one is bidden to lay down his life rather than engage in, are murder, idolatry and "gilui arayot," the immoral uncovering of nakedness (Lev. 18), which includes adultery, incest and homosexuality. Indeed, the Torah reserves its most intense condemnation for homosexuality:
"to'eva"
- abomination...
64 posted on 11/22/2004 4:15:34 PM PST by Ed Current
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To: buffyt

I beg your pardon, but I am 45, never married, no girlfriend, and I am not gay.

Being a batchelor does not make a man gay.


65 posted on 11/22/2004 4:18:20 PM PST by RaceBannon (Arab Media pulled out of Fallujah; Could we get the MSM to pull out of America??)
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To: buffyt
NOT all of them do that. And ANY heterosexual who has EVER had sex with someone they are not married to, are in the same sinful boat. Everyone thinks their own sin is whiter than the next guy's sin. The Ten Commandments - break one, you break them all.

It sounds like you are starting to understand: EVERYONE is a sinner, and that include Homosexuals and heterosexuals, but...

NOT all Heterosexual sex is sin, but

ALL Homosexual sex IS sin!

66 posted on 11/22/2004 4:19:56 PM PST by RaceBannon (Arab Media pulled out of Fallujah; Could we get the MSM to pull out of America??)
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To: punster

the factor in male homosexuality is related to a hyper-masculinization of some part of the brain (most probably in the hypothalamus).

See - POST #50 & "Born that way" Theory - Is Homosexuality Genetic?

67 posted on 11/22/2004 4:20:09 PM PST by Ed Current
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To: Grut
Mind you, I have doubts about the existence of a 'gay gene' myself: if such a thing existed, it would see to be a prime candidate for being 'selected out'. But this sort of pseudo-rational argument is just smoke from the fires of Hell.

Oh puh_leeez. Why would the idea that everyone is given free-will an arguement from the fires of hell? What comes from the fire of hell is the LIE that people have no choice, they are born that way, then tag them with a lable of being 'gay'. You are very confused.

68 posted on 11/22/2004 4:20:47 PM PST by Always Right
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To: RaceBannon

You are absolutely correct; people make wrong assumptions about a person's lifestyle but a choice is still a choice when it is acted upon.


69 posted on 11/22/2004 4:26:21 PM PST by winker
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To: Ed Current

In my opinion, honest or otherwise, homosexuality is just a fetish, like foot fetises and panty fetishes, etc. Probably comes from some early-sexual-development fantasies or experiences.


70 posted on 11/22/2004 4:27:03 PM PST by expatpat
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To: buffyt

>>I think most gays just want to be left alone.<<

Sorry but my experience with gay friends and my own sister says that Gays are in your face kind of people. They don't want to be left alone, they want to be accepted where they should be treated. The head of the APA that took the Homosexual diagnosis out of the DSM was gay himself according to a report on NPR. He went against his entire group to do it. If homosexuals could be treated we would see less of them.

And please do not assume that every "Old Maid" or "Bachelor" was gay. I was accused of that until I shocked many people and married at 36. Sex is not everything and some of us do not feel that we should put out for everyone because society says if it feels good, do it.


71 posted on 11/22/2004 4:27:37 PM PST by netmilsmom (Zell on DEM Christianity, "They can hum the tune, but can't sing the song.")
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To: RaceBannon
Another to go with the one you posted. The Chalcedon Foundation - Faith for All Life The Christian Confronted by Homosexuality, Jean Marc Berthoud, August 12, 2003

 

72 posted on 11/22/2004 4:31:48 PM PST by Ed Current
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To: Savage Beast
I am heterosexual. This is not optional. It is the way I am, have always been, and will always be.

Then again, you probably were not molested as a child or raised in an abusive home. There is a ton of evidence that shows there are evironmental causes to homosexuality. What one is sexually attracted to is mostly mental and can be programed. Not easy to overcome a lifetime of experience, but still possible. If one just explores the numerous odd fetishes on the internet you would discover all sorts of odd things that one could not have possibly have been born with. Diapers, rubber, leather, etc. I really think sexual fetishes can be learned especially considering sex is one of the most powerful positive reinforcement mechanisms that we have.

73 posted on 11/22/2004 4:33:52 PM PST by Always Right
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To: Ed Current
"Homosexuality has been practiced for thousands of years."

So has murder.....

One just as immoral as the other.
74 posted on 11/22/2004 4:34:18 PM PST by Navydog
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To: RaceBannon

>>Being a batchelor does not make a man gay.<<

Mr. Bannon, please read my post 71. I am quite offended by the statement that all unmarried people in midlife are gay. I have never and will never be gay. Along with that, being traditional Catholic and dating the same I also remained celebate until my husband.

Amazing that someone can live without sex, isn't it???


75 posted on 11/22/2004 4:34:36 PM PST by netmilsmom (Zell on DEM Christianity, "They can hum the tune, but can't sing the song.")
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To: netmilsmom

The head of the APA that took the Homosexual diagnosis out of the DSM was gay himself according to a report on NPR.

They just want to be politically correct, so correct that they are willing to:

The Pedophilia Debate Continues--And DSM Is Changed Again

Although pedophilia remains illegal, and our culture still considers it morally wrong, recent changes in the APA's own diagnostic and statistical manual (DSM) have reopened the discussion of the psychological dimension of pedophilia.
History of the Diagnosis.
In the DSM-III, the American Psychiatric Association contended that merely acting upon one's urges toward children was considered sufficient to generate a diagnosis of pedophilia. But then a few years later, in the DSM-IV, the APA changed its criteria so that a person who molested children was considered to have a psychiatric disorder only if his actions "caused clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational or other important areas of functioning." In other words, a man who molested children without remorse, and without experiencing significant impairment in his social and work relationships, could be diagnosed by a clinician as a "psychologically normal" type of pedophile.
Challenged by NARTH to defend the change, the APAstated categorically that it had, in fact, no intention of normalizing pedophilia. However, "man-boy love" advocates cheered that DSM shift as good news.

76 posted on 11/22/2004 4:37:28 PM PST by Ed Current
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To: Ed Current

Oh God help us all.

Thanks for the information.


77 posted on 11/22/2004 4:43:59 PM PST by netmilsmom (Zell on DEM Christianity, "They can hum the tune, but can't sing the song.")
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To: RaceBannon; Doe Eyes
re: Ceremonial vs. moral law

These are complex doctrinal issues which must be answered by analyzing the entire Bible in context. Right now, I have to go eat supper, but I plan to return and post an answer. I hope you will read it as it is going to take me some time. It will only matter to you if you are a Christian.

Just as a quick point, it should be self evident that God's moral law never passes away. It is just as wrong to murder, commit adultery, abuse a child, and steal today as it was 4,000 years ago. Why should one want to exempt a prohibition against homosexuality from God's law? Only to justify one's self and/or rationalize sin away, I think. These same prohibitions are repeated in the New Testament anyway, so the point is moot. New Covenant or Old, homosexuality is still a sin. No one is advocating Old Covenant stoning (no sane people anyway) - just an honest acknowledgment of what is right and wrong.

Jesus said, "If you love me, you will keep my Commandments."
78 posted on 11/22/2004 4:50:43 PM PST by Jeff Blogworthy
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To: expatpat

Only thing though this fetish is an abomination to Jehovah God and will send you to Hell if you remain an un-repentant sinner in this lifestyle choice. Ethyl Waters said it best"GOD don't make no Junk"


79 posted on 11/22/2004 4:52:39 PM PST by winker
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To: Ed Current

thank you for posting that! I have been working on a similar analysis and recognize nearly all of those studies mentioned. It is quite difficult to go through everything, there is a lot of mud being thrown around by both sides. (yes both sides this time)

It was a very intelligent non-biased review with very little I could disagree with.

My only complaint is that he doesn't emphasize, although he implicitly implies, that it is possible that a conglomeration of different genes COULD work together to account for a significant portion of homosexuality. Also, although it seems true that a significant number of people can change sexual orientation, it MAY not be true for all gay people.

Also, I haven't gone through the other links after the main analysis - my first reaction to the so-called Nazi link is skeptical, but Ill look through it first...


80 posted on 11/22/2004 5:04:49 PM PST by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/summary.htm)
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To: airborne

That is the 'excuse' they love to use, isn't it?
But let's see if it works with a word other than 'homosexual'.

"I am a pedophile- I crave sex with kids- it's how God made
me!"
Does society accept that? Is that something we try to stop?
-or-
" I'm a pyromaniac. I love setting things on fire. It's how God made me."
-or-
" I'm delusional, have multiple personalities, and am self-destructive. It's how God made me."

How about a pathological liar, or people who think sex with animals is ok, or parents who have no human feeling for their children?

The point is, all these are deviations from the norm.
If we're going to excuse one 'urge' ( homosexuality) that deviates from the norm, we're going to have to excuse them all; because they are all 'uncontrollable' according to the people who were 'born that way'.
Don't blame God. He created biology, and like all systems it goes unpredicatably wacky at times.
When that happens we try to fix things.
Homosexuals demand that an aberration be reclassified as normal on the basis that it exists!
'Evil', according to religion, depends on your belief system.( Most consider it so.) But against the biological NORM homosexuality most definitely is!


81 posted on 11/22/2004 5:09:48 PM PST by ClearBlueSky (Whenever someone says it's not about Islam-it's about Islam. Jesus loves you, Allah wants you dead!)
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To: Ed Current; little jeremiah; ItsOurTimeNow
BTTT


What We Can Do To Help Defeat the "Gay" Agenda


Homosexual Agenda: Categorical Index of Links (Version 1.1)


Myth and Reality about Homosexuality--Sexual Orientation Section, Guide to Family Issues"

82 posted on 11/22/2004 5:17:25 PM PST by EdReform (Free Republic - helping to keep our country a free republic. Thank you for your financial support!)
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To: traviskicks

I also don't think it has been shown with any certainty that the gay lifestyle is significantly more damaging or less healthy then a heterosexual lifestyle. For example, it might be the case in some instances that homosexuality is a by-product of a more expansive cognitive restructuring (caused by nature and/or nuture), which causes disorders. In other instances, homosexuals may live normal, happy, and productive lives.


The literature review didn't address that anyway... but it's my extra 2 cents.


83 posted on 11/22/2004 5:17:26 PM PST by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/summary.htm)
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To: traviskicks

my first reaction to the so-called Nazi link is skeptical, but Ill look through it first...

Gay Nazis: the Role of Homosexuality in Nazism & Hitler's Rise to ... Thus butch hypermasculinity, visibility for homosexuals, and organization were the three necessary ingredients in the mix which allowed the SA leaders to make their unique and essential contribution to the rise of Nazism. Another important consideration is that visibility is enabled when homosexuality assumes a political voice. In this way, the politicization of homosexuality, which supported gays in the process of socially identifying themselves as such, was a necessary condition for Hitler's success.

A Psychological Profile of Adolf Hitler Walter C. Langer, Office of Strategic Services,Washington, D.C.

"I am one of the hardest men Germany has had for decades, perhaps for centuries, equipped [Page 7] with the greatest authority of any German leader... but above all, I believe in my success. I believe in it unconditionally." (M.N.O. 871)

The great difficulty is that this form of identification early in life carries the individual in the direction of passive homosexuality. Hitler has for years been suspected of being a homosexual, although there is no reliable evidence that he has actually engaged in a relationship of this kind. Rauschning reports that he has met two boys who claimed that they were Hitler's homosexual partners, but their testimony can scarcely be taken at its face value. More condemning would be the remarks dropped by Foerster, the Danzig Gauleiter, in conversations with Rauschning. Even here, however, the remarks deal only with Hitler's impotence as far as heterosexual relations go without actually implying that he indulges in homosexuality. It is probably true that Hitler calls Foerster "Bubi", which is a common nickname employed by homosexuals in addressing their partners. This alone, however, is not adequate proof that he has actually indulged in homosexual practices with Foerster, who is known to be a homosexual.

The belief that Hitler is homosexual has probably developed (a) from the fact that he does show so many feminine characteristics, and (b) from the fact that there were so many homosexuals in the Party during the early days and many continue to occupy important positions. It does seem that Hitler feels much more at ease with homosexuals than with normal persons, but this may be due to the fact that they are all fundamentally social outcasts and consequently have a community of interests which tends to make them think and feel more or less alike. In this connection it is interesting to note that homosexuals, too, frequently regard themselves as a special form of creation or as chosen ones whose destiny it is to initiate a new order.

The fact that underneath they feel themselves to be different and ostracized from normal social contacts usually makes them easy converts to a new social philosophy which does not discriminate against them. Being among civilization's discontents, they are always willing to take a chance of something new which holds any promise of improving their lot, even though their chances of success may be small and the risk great. Having little to lose to begin with, they can afford to take chances which others would refrain from taking. The early Nazi party certainly contained many members who could be regarded in this light. Even today Hitler derives pleasure from looking at men's bodies and associating with homosexuals. Strasser tells us that his personal body guard is almost always 100% homosexuals. [Page 196]

He also derives considerable pleasure from being with his Hitler Youth and his attitude towards them frequently tends to be more that of a woman than that of a man.

There is a possibility that Hitler has participated in a homosexual relationship at some time in his life. The evidence is such that we can only say there is a strong tendency in this direction which, in addition to the manifestations already enumerated, often finds expression in imagery concerning being attacked from behind or being stabbed in the back. His nightmares, which frequently deal with being attacked by a man and being suffocated, also suggest strong homosexual tendencies and a fear of them. From these indications, however, we would conclude that for the most part these tendencies have been repressed, which would speak against the probability of their being expressed in overt form. On the other hand, persons suffering from his perversion sometimes do indulge in homosexual practices in the hope that they might find sexual gratification. Even this perversion would be more acceptable to them than the one with which they are afflicted.

On the whole, one could say of many of the German troops what Rauschning said of Hitler: [Page 242] "...there lies behind Hitler's emphasis on brutality and ruthlessness the desolation of a forced and artificual inhumanity, not the amorality of the genuine brute, which has after all something of the power of a natural force."

 

Adolf Hitler's homosexuality has been demonstrated beyond question by German historian Lothar Machtan's massively researched new book, The Hidden Hitler, which shows homosexuality's central role in Hitler's personal life.

But the crucial role within the Nazi movement of the most vicious and lawless types of homosexuality, which Machtan also shows, is even more important than Hitler's personal preference. In 1933, six months after Hitler took power, the distinguished Jewish author Ludwig Lewisohn described what Machtan confirms, that "the entire [Nazi] movement is in fact and by certain aspects of its avowed ideology drenched through and through with homoerotic feeling and practice." And those homosexual currents inextricably were connected with vicious German militarism long before the Nazis.

84 posted on 11/22/2004 5:23:25 PM PST by Ed Current
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To: Always Right
Oh puh_leeez. Why would the idea that everyone is given free-will [be] an arguement from the fires of hell?

Because if God gives people free will, not respecting the choices they make with it is kibitizing Him. Remember "Judge not lest ye be judged?"

85 posted on 11/22/2004 5:40:47 PM PST by Grut
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To: netmilsmom; Ed Current; scripter; ArGee; lentulusgracchus; Bryan
The homosexual communtiy's well planned and well financed campaign to remove homosexuality from the DSM began with their infiltration of the American Psychiatric Association. It wasn't science, but rather pro-homosexual activism that was, and continues to be, the primary force behind policy changes and the politically correct statments made by the APA and the majority of the other "professional" medical organizations.

This was the homosexual community's biggest victory. It permitted them to claim that "homosexuality is normal" and set the stage to present this "normalcy" to the general public via a well planned media campaign ( outlined in 'The Overhauling of Straight America' ), and to kids in the public schools via Kevin Jennings' GLSEN. Kids as young as kindergarten age are now being indoctrinated with "homosexuality is normal."


For documentation of homosexual activism in both the APA's and the AAP, see the following replies in scripter's "Homosexual Agenda: Categorical Index of Links (Revision 1.1)" thread:

American Psychological Association: 121, 240, 242, 300, 329, 331, and 336.

American Psychiatric Association: 46, 139, 213, 232, 237, 239, 241, 243, and 246 and 300.

American Academy of Pediatrics: 284


Additional References:

Selling Homosexuality to America

The Overhauling of Straight America

The Homosexual Propaganda and Media Manipulation Game

Homosexual Agenda Platforms from 1972 - 2000 [plus other resources]

Teaching Kindergarten Kids About 'Human Differences' and Homosexuality Isn't 'Easy' in Newton

NEA Cautioned Not to Accept American Psychological Association's "Just the Facts"

86 posted on 11/22/2004 5:41:18 PM PST by EdReform (Free Republic - helping to keep our country a free republic. Thank you for your financial support!)
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To: Always Right

Some people may be able to overcome sexual perversions. Many people are not.


87 posted on 11/22/2004 5:43:57 PM PST by Savage Beast (9/11 was never repeated--thanks to President Bush.)
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To: Ed Current



the factor in male homosexuality is related to a hyper-masculinization of some part of the brain (most probably in the hypothalamus).

See - POST #50 & "Born that way" Theory - Is Homosexuality Genetic?



One additional bit of evidence: There are plenty of rumors and stories about male homosexuality being much more common among professional athletes.

I do have doubts that homosexuality and associated differences in brain structure can be explained as simply operant conditioning. I will grant, that the behavior patterns may become more pronounced, with time and reinforcing activities.



88 posted on 11/22/2004 5:48:43 PM PST by punster
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To: Grut
Remember "Judge not lest ye be judged?"

I am just pointing out they have free will. I am not condemning them to hell.

89 posted on 11/22/2004 5:58:57 PM PST by Always Right
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To: Ed Current; EdReform

Excellent compilation. Thanks for the ping, ER.


90 posted on 11/22/2004 6:07:48 PM PST by scripter (Tens of thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle)
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To: netmilsmom

I am not amazed at it anymore...(sigh)...


91 posted on 11/22/2004 6:09:58 PM PST by RaceBannon (Arab Media pulled out of Fallujah; Could we get the MSM to pull out of America??)
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To: punster

Reminds me of the studies in the 60's-70's trying to prove that most criminals were so by genetic default. Large debunked except in very rare cases.


92 posted on 11/22/2004 6:29:24 PM PST by SCALEMAN (Super Cards Fan)
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To: Ed Current
2.8% of the male...population identify themselves as gay...or bisexual

Rough figures here but:

2.8% = 4 million
900,000 people in the U.S. have AIDS/HIV
60% of those cases are homosexuals = 540,000
13.5% of male homosexuals have HIV/AIDS

93 posted on 11/22/2004 7:02:44 PM PST by tuesday afternoon (Everything happens for a reason. - 40 and 43)
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To: Grut
Mind you, I have doubts about the existence of a 'gay gene' myself: if such a thing existed, it would see to be a prime candidate for being 'selected out'.

I don't believe in a 'gay gene' either. But there are reasons why such a gene wouldn't be selected out. One theory is kin selection: a gay man is able to care for his kin and enhance their chances of reproduction, and his kin also happen to carry the same gene. A better theory is that homosexuality is an odd product of a gene which does something else entirely that is important for survival. My memory is fuzzy here, but I believe that cystic fibrosis results from having two copies of a gene, but if you have only one copy, you are less likely to get tuberculosis. The benefit of one copy of the gene outweighs the tremendous harm caused by having both copies, as far as survivability of the gene goes.

94 posted on 11/22/2004 7:06:46 PM PST by megatherium
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To: Ed Current
Another to go with the one you posted. The Chalcedon Foundation - Faith for All Life The Christian Confronted by Homosexuality, Jean Marc Berthoud, August 12, 2003

Please correct me if I'm wrong -- but isn't the Chalcedon Foundation dedicated to making the United States a Christian nation (to be established in the Constitution)?

95 posted on 11/22/2004 7:14:20 PM PST by megatherium
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To: EdReform; backhoe; Yehuda; Clint N. Suhks; saradippity; stage left; Yakboy; I_Love_My_Husband; ...

Homosexual Agenda Ping - the Mother of All Links. Not really, but there is so much information on this thread you gotta copy'n'paste for arguments, for files, for info to keep and pass on.

There are also the usual nay-sayers ("how come you're so obsessed with homosexuality?" etc) - feel free to dismantle them.

[Just got back from a trip - must organize water, so I can't participate until later.]

It's really getting to the point where anyone who claims neutrality, or "I think it's genetic", or "all the gays I know are mild mannered monogamous Republicans who don't go to Gay Pride Parades, Thailand, the Philippines, haven't adopted kids, and just want to be left alone" is consciously lying. They obviously refuse to read the reams of information available on FR. And they never post any articles/studies/research that disprove anything that EdReform, Ed Current, Scripter or anyone else puts up here.

Let me or ItsOurTimeNow know if anyone wants on/off this pinglist.


96 posted on 11/22/2004 7:18:47 PM PST by little jeremiah (Moral absolutes are what make humans human.)
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To: Doe Eyes; Jeff Blogworthy
Please direct me to this in the Bible.

Fulfillment of the Law and Prophets

Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have not come to abolish these things but to fulfill them. 5:18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth pass away not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter will pass from the law until everything takes place. 5:19 So anyone who breaks one of the least of these commands and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever obeys them and teaches others to do so will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness* goes beyond that of the experts in the law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Entry Word: righteousness
Function: noun
Text:
Synonyms: GOODNESS, morality*, probity, rectitude, rightness, uprightness, virtue

97 posted on 11/22/2004 8:35:07 PM PST by DirtyHarryY2K (Perversion is not a civil right.)
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To: Ed Current

Well Ed after all that, long post, links and all, I have only one thing to say.

God did not make them like that. They chose that lifestyle all by themselves.


98 posted on 11/22/2004 8:39:47 PM PST by ladyinred (Congratulations President Bush! Four more years!)
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To: EdReform; RaceBannon

Thanks for the ping. This thread starts with an excellent summary of both the science and the Scriptures relevant to homosexuality. Bookmarked.


99 posted on 11/22/2004 8:49:14 PM PST by Bryan
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To: buffyt

I don't see how any person can interact with gay people and not believe in some sort of predisposition. Many of them came from perfectly stable, conservative households. I know where the Leviticus-quoters are coming from, but it seems like common sense would have to override at some point.


100 posted on 11/22/2004 8:49:58 PM PST by Deport Billary
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