Posted on 11/23/2004 5:20:30 AM PST by standing united
HAYWARD, Wis. — Thick glass prevented Chai Soua Vang (search) from any contact with family members during a brief visit Monday at Sawyer County Jail. They spoke via telephone, mixing English with the native language of Hmong immigrants from Laos (search).
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
We have called law-enforcement, and each occassion, the law never enforces the trespass laws, and allows the environmentalist to walk with a warning, or a laugh. I cannot remember a single time when our local Prosecutor has prosecuted a trespassor on private property in our County. This is very dangerous, and I am afraid will lead to another massacre just as has happended in Wisc.
This malicious misrepresentation of our private property may have led to a Hmong (Chai Soua Vang) entering private property with his intent on hunting what he considers "public property" and when he was told that the blind he was using was on private property, he may have fiqured that they were a bunch of lying white people and opened fire on them. Since when does anyone hunt with a 20 round mag in their rifle anyway? I know here in Michigan it is against the law to have more than 5 rounds in your rifle during deer season. It has been reported that Vang had a hunting licence for Minn., but not for Wisc. I have also noticed that the news media is down playing the shooting as the murderer being a "fellow" hunter and they are not reporting that Vang was NOT part of the hunting party that he murdered, but a trespasser.
Mr. Vang will not be charged with a "hate" crime because shooting whites is alright, so long as whites do not shoot a minority. No matter how you look at this massacre, there is a lot more to this story than the news is willing to report, that is for sure.
Do we know for sure if he was really even a hunter, or could he have planned this serial killing, much as the gunman on the UT clock tower? I just wonder if he was really just trying to make a statement against guns, and make hunters look bad by doing this. Or he could just be crazy. We have owned guns forever and we have never had a problem with our guns or our kids getting into our guns. Our kids are grown now.
I am stuned - They may need to have Customes Agents from tiajunna to investigate with thier beeber devices
"No matter how you look at this massacre, there is a lot more to this story than the news is willing to report, that is for sure."
You said it much better than I did.
Stuned Beeber alert!
Just my opinion but I believe he was there to hunt. He had the out-of-state hunting permit by some reports.
They had a serial killer in Florida some years back who shot hunters. Never caught them. Wonder where this dude was then?
Why is the family surprised? He already had a domestic violence complaint filed against him...
bump
This guy was not there to hunt deer. He was there to go on a shooting spree.
People who go to hunt deer do not kill six people. The whole hunting scene just makes it more of a sport, as opposed to the post office or MacDonalds shooting spree.
Eventually the lawyers will turn this around that due to the language barrier and because the other hunters had guns, he got scared and acted in self-defense. The fact that they kept coming at him, no doubt with their guns, he just kept shooting.
He and his family will be playing the race card. Count on it.
By the way I don't buy this, but I expect nothing less from lawyer scum looking to pick up a high profile case. They might even go the OJ defense root and claim the slain hunters were throwing racial threats at him and dig in their pasts for any off-color joke or comment they ever made.
Hey you, good morning!
Won't wash. I am from this area and am following it pretty closely. He chased them down. The bodies were scattered up to 200 yards apart.
One bit of news that needs more information is who was he with and what happened to them? A few reports were he may have been with a group of 3 or 4 hunters himself.
I am with you, I too believe that this whole massacre was staged. Nothing makes any sense in what is being reported.
Seemingly a group of hunters escorted him out of the woods when he encountered them and said he was lost.
Of the 8 hunters that were shot, only 1 had a weapon.
Hope you are both right. Gretta Van Sistern is probably eyeballing this one for at least a year long run. Hopefully its open and shut.
Just wanted you to know that we here in Michigan send our love and support, as wll as our deep sorrow for your loss.
God bles.
Okay
He had been in the army - so presumably knows a bit about weapons - enough so's you don't use semiautomatic assault rifle as a deer rifle, IMO.
He knew he was on someone one's property and IMO he knew the tree stand wasn't his.
Police in St. Paul said there had been two domestic violence calls to his home in the past year, but both were resolved without incident.
He just may have had an anger problem> IMO
Please know there are many, many prayers going up for you folks up there.
I don't buy the cultural argument--that Hmong have no concept of private property. My in-laws owned a farm in north central Wisconsin and every year, they'd chase at least a half a dozen deer hunters off their clearly-posted land while they hunted without the permission of my in-laws (and their land was not near any public hunting areas). None were Hmong. They were from out of the area, however, and, as best as we could figure, would hunt on my in-laws land until they got caught and chased off. It was a constant problem during the gun deer season for all the farmers in that area.
There was a psycho from Canton hunting humans here in Ohio a few years back as well, he was caught, but this incident is nothing new. Was this guy by himself? I personally do not know of anyone who would travel a significant distance (3hrs drive) to go hunting alone. That stikes me as odd. Then again I'm not Laotian.
Could be. What really disturbs me is how calm he's been since he shot them. Pretty cold-blooded.
Hmmm.
Look what I Googled up:
"The Hmong in the U.S. came mainly from Laos as refugees after the Vietnam War. . . . many of them were recruited by the CIA to fight for us in the once-secret wars in Laos. . . . we pulled out from Vietnam and left them in the lurch . . . ."
Wouldn't it be interesting if his defense is that as a child he was unhinged by Imperialist American aggression in the Far East . . .
And when the Americans approached him, he had a flashback?
What a surprise! We find the defendant "not guilty" for the reason that those mean, and, also (stupid, because they all voted for Bush) Whites used him when he was a child, and then left him behind to fend for himself.
I read a little more, and here's what else I found about the Hmong:
"Every Hmong family I have met here can tell of blood-chilling stories of escape or of the awful deaths of loved ones. It seems like everyone lost a mother, father, brother, sister, or spouse during the war and during the escape to Thailand and the U.S. The stories told by young people, describing what they experienced at age 4 or 5, are especially chilling."
Sure enough, if he lived through that, his lawyer will use his childhood trauma as a defense.
Maybe his lawyer will say he saw Imperialist American CIA torture or kill his family for refusing to fight on the American side.
Or maybe he saw Imperialist American Soldiers bomb his village by accident.
Or whatever--you get the picture.
I never hunt alone. It is 3 hours to the private club where I hunt. 5500 acres and never fewer than 4 of us, usually 20 or more. The hunts are well planned based on wind direction and given stations (mostly shooting houses). Everyone has radios. Everyone is where they are supposed to be. Everyone carries a side arm in addition to their deer rifle. Everyone has to attend the club safety course (conducted by me usually).
I wonder if to begin with, we let him immigrate because he was a victim of political persecution or some such?
The should go to work on this guy with pliers and a blowtorch. Unbelieveable.
Here's more:
"Hmong refugees in the U.S. struggle with our unusual ways . . . For the older generation, adopting the new ways has been painful . . . . Simple things like going to a store or walking through town can be terrifying experiences for the elderly."
I think too many people are looking too hard (not here but in the reports I'm seeing on local Wisconsin TV) for an excuse.
He was a violent, irrational guy. He threatened to kill his wife with a gun at some point. He was out hunting with a fairly high-powered weapon on private land using someone else's tree stand. Was this his first time hunting? If not and if he had five brain cells, he'd have known it's considered impolite to bogart someone's tree stand.
The majority of the guys in my family hunt and the majority of them do a lot of drinking while "up north" - although they don't drink while hunting.
So maybe this nutty guy with anger issues was up there drunk as a skunk, got separated from his hunting party, climbed up in another guy's tree stand and when he was asked to get his butt out, got belligerent and started shooting then continued shooting when more guys showed up.
I doubt it's too much more complicated than that. I only wish Tommy would have located his balls when he was governor and brought back the death penalty here.
I am sure, after all they have more rights than Americans who live and work, paying taxes, and own private, (oops) their property.
Can you imagine if a White (seperatist) man, living alone with his family, shot 8 armed Hmong who were on his pri--- (oops) property?
Can we all say the WEAVER Family? Mrs. Weaver had her head blown off while she was unarmed, standing in her kitchen, while holding her bay in her arms. The shooter was a foreigner working for the FBI.
You have it backwards. The Hmong are very pro-American.
Actually, it makes sense . . . from what we know, he must have been crazy to do what he did.
And there's a good chance that if he had a traumatic childhood in Laos during the wars, he would have been unhinged.
So, that could very well explain this event.
Every one? Sure. Not a bad apple in the bunch.
"I love America--see, I'm good. Can I immigrate now?"
The people killing the Hmong were the Pathet Lao and Vietnamese Soldiers. The US was supporting them including flying relief flights of rice into very small, dangerous, mountain landing strips to help them. You might want to try educating yourself on the topic a little bit.
I agree with you 100%.
I found this using google (bolding is mine):
"The Hmong in the U.S. came mainly from Laos as refugees after the Vietnam War. They once lived idyllic agrarian lives in the hills of northern Laos, but that changed once many of them were recruited by the CIA to fight for us in the once-secret wars in Laos. They fought bravely and suffered many causalities, but once we pulled out from Vietnam and left them in the lurch"
You don't think maybe he has a grudge because Americans left his people in the lurch?
I just cant understand that. Every time I go in to the woods I always have a sidearm.(S&W M629) The story I heard is the first guy shot called the deer camp and told the others he had been shot and to help. And nobody brought a gun? Something is wrong here.
There is more to life than what you might find on google. There are plenty of good books on the subject and I will be happy to recommend some if you want. Gayle Morrison has written quite a bit about the Hmong and their struggles during and after the war. She is very active in the Hmong community in the United States. You might want to start with what she has written.
You don't think maybe he has a grudge because Americans left his people in the lurch?
No, I don't. There are a lot more dynamics here. The US did everything they could to help them including 'unofficial' efforts that are still going on to this day. The Vietnam War ended for Americans a long time ago. It didn't end for those in Laos with the US pull out. Unfortunately I can not go into much detail on here, but Americans, in an unofficial capacity, are still doing a lot to help them.
A perfect example of this is allowing these people to immigrate to the US rather than being returned to Laos where they would have a very miserable existance.
I'm not sure if this is still the case, but about 10 years ago in Arizona, you could buy an SKS for less than $100. I'm not a deer hunter, but did read articles at that time of people using the SKS as a cheap deer rifle.
That's just what this incident reminds me of. I am quite skeptical about the preliminary reports.
You don't need a 20 or 30 round magazine for Bambi either. If you do, you shouldn't be out there. Not that I have anything against high-cap mags, mind you, it's just that it is about as appropriate as a Rambo knife or sword for skinning Bambi.
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