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Breaking News: Russian Troops Intervening in Ukraine Elections
Private Email from Election Observer in Ukraine | 11/23/2004 | Bob Schaffer

Posted on 11/23/2004 4:38:52 PM PST by ModelBreaker

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This is an email from Bob Schaffer. He is a three term congressman from Colorado and recently ran against Pete Coors for the Republican Senate nomination in CO. He's a solid guy and has been a specialist in the Ukraine.

Bob is serving as an election monitor and sends us these startling developments. Apparently the Russians are intervening in the Ukraine with Russian troops dressed as Ukrainians to turn over the results of the election.

He has asked that we publicize these developments widely. Have at it FREEPERS

1 posted on 11/23/2004 4:38:52 PM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: ModelBreaker

If you hear anything new, please keep us updated.


2 posted on 11/23/2004 4:41:42 PM PST by AuH2ORepublican (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: ModelBreaker
FoxNews was reporting that there was to be a meeting tomorrow morning for - supposedly for transition. Pics on the news looked like the protesters were remaining calm....at least at that point.

Aren't international monitors also confirming fraud and corruption? This doesn't look good - either for Ukraine, or for the US/Russian relations.

3 posted on 11/23/2004 4:43:34 PM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: ModelBreaker

Forgive me. Who's the good guy and who's the bad guy again?


4 posted on 11/23/2004 4:44:35 PM PST by Norman Bates (Usama Bin Laden, 1957-2005)
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To: ModelBreaker

Okay - so tell us something, if you can, about Yushchenko?

I know about the Russians(where they come from) - but what about this guy - who backs him (what power or "money")- if you know -

Thanks -


5 posted on 11/23/2004 4:45:03 PM PST by Pastnowfuturealpha
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To: ModelBreaker

This sounds series!


6 posted on 11/23/2004 4:45:44 PM PST by Momaw Nadon (Goals for 2004: Re-elect President Bush, over 60 Republicans in the Senate, and a Republican House.)
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To: ModelBreaker; risk; neverdem; Grampa Dave; Jeff Head; FITZ; dennisw; blam

Holy Moly!


7 posted on 11/23/2004 4:46:30 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: ModelBreaker; nw_arizona_granny; Calpernia; struwwelpeter; callmejoe

"Apparently the Russians are intervening in the Ukraine with Russian troops dressed as Ukrainians to turn over the results of the election."


8 posted on 11/23/2004 4:46:40 PM PST by Velveeta
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To: ModelBreaker

BTT. Will follow this closely.


9 posted on 11/23/2004 4:48:58 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: ModelBreaker

Best I can tell, the election results need overturning since the fraud was outrageous. I'll defer to more-informed Freepers, because I'm basing it on only two news articles I've read on the situation.


10 posted on 11/23/2004 4:50:46 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: ModelBreaker

So the Russians are said to be behind the opposition? Am I understanding this correctly?


11 posted on 11/23/2004 4:51:07 PM PST by prairiebreeze (The AP is no longer a news organization. It's a transcription service for the DNC.)
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To: ModelBreaker
Just to clarify,Yanukovich (supported by the party in power) appeared to have won. I believe that *he* is the one being supported by Russia and, according to the report, by their military.

Yushchenko is the challenger who lost by 3 percentage points but has the people marching in the street.

His reasoning? The exit polls said he won, but the ballots did not. I do not know enough about the supposed fraud to know the truth, but this kind of sounds familiar, no?
12 posted on 11/23/2004 4:51:45 PM PST by McChordwatcher (Still Learning FR's Ropes)
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To: McChordwatcher

Ok, thanks. I thought those were the circumstances but after reading this email thought I might have gotten it wrong.


13 posted on 11/23/2004 4:53:52 PM PST by prairiebreeze (The AP is no longer a news organization. It's a transcription service for the DNC.)
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To: TapTheSource

PING


14 posted on 11/23/2004 4:54:20 PM PST by streetpreacher (There will be no Trolls in heaven.)
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To: ModelBreaker

Are we sure these are Russian Troops or is it possible that Kerry/Edwards' 10,000 lawyers took a wrong turn somewhere?


15 posted on 11/23/2004 4:56:32 PM PST by streetpreacher (There will be no Trolls in heaven.)
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To: Dog Gone

"the election results need overturning since the fraud was outrageous"

I had also heard that the election was massively fraudulent. But I thought that the "winner" was the guy backed by the Russians. Why would they be intervening to overturn the election when their guy "won"? Something is wrong here. There is a missing piece.


16 posted on 11/23/2004 4:56:57 PM PST by calenel (The Democratic Party is the Socialist Mafia. It is a Criminal Enterprise.)
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To: McChordwatcher

I read that George Soros is behind Yushchenko.


17 posted on 11/23/2004 4:57:12 PM PST by monkeywrench
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To: Norman Bates
Yanukovich would be the Russian's favorite (Putin) and
Yuschenko would probably be supported by the USA.

The exit pols showed Yushchenko (USA) to be the winner. The ballot count showed Yanukovich (Putin) to be the winner.

Charges of vote fraud are being backed up by hundrreds of thousands protesting in the streets. - Tom

18 posted on 11/23/2004 4:58:44 PM PST by Capt. Tom (Don't confuse the Bushies with the dumb Republicans - Capt. Tom)
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To: ModelBreaker

All these problems with Russia makes it very apparent that Condi Rice is the right choice for Sect'y of State, with her expertise in Soviet relations.


19 posted on 11/23/2004 4:59:50 PM PST by Eva
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To: calenel

Not really. If the population is about to go ballistic, they are there to protect their guy in the allegedly fraudulent victory.


20 posted on 11/23/2004 5:00:21 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: McChordwatcher

From what I read on the BBC earlier today, Yushchenko, the challenger, aka "opposition", is PRO-WESTERN, while the "apparent winner", Yanukovich, is pro-Russian.


21 posted on 11/23/2004 5:01:08 PM PST by wimpycat ("I'm mean, but I make up for it by bein' real healthy.")
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To: Pastnowfuturealpha

VIKTOR YUSHCHENKO
Viktor Yushchenko is a former prime minister of Ukraine. He is a member of the Ukrainian Verkhovna Rada (parliament) and head of the Our Ukraine parliamentary caucus. Yushchenko graduated from the Ternopil Finance and Economics Institute in 1975 and is a candidate for a science degree in economics. He is a laureate of the Ukraine State Science and Technology Prize. Since 1976, Yushchenko has worked in the banking system. In 1985, he was appointed deputy director, and later director, of the Ukrainian Republican Bureau of the USSR State Bank. From 1993-99, he was governor of the National Bank of Ukraine. In 1997, Yushchenko was rated among the world's top six central bankers by "Global Finance" magazine. From 1999-2001, Yushchenko served as prime minister of Ukraine. In 2001-02, he formed and headed the Our Ukraine election coalition.



See the following website: http://www.rferl.org/specials/50radioliberty/yush.asp


22 posted on 11/23/2004 5:01:18 PM PST by gr8bigdude (I have to follow them, I am their leader. -Alexandre-Auguste Ledru-Rollin)
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To: ModelBreaker

Never fear, Commie vote enabler Jimmy Carter is here!

23 posted on 11/23/2004 5:02:25 PM PST by Rebelbase (Indiscriminate reprisals strengthen the terrorists. Targeted ones weaken them. Aim is everything.)
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To: monkeywrench

Yes, he is. And what a villian he is.....he HATES Bush, you know. MOVEON is his group.


24 posted on 11/23/2004 5:05:03 PM PST by Lion in Winter (I ain't no pussy cat... don't mess with me... ya hear! GRRRRRRrrr)
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To: McChordwatcher

Wrong. This is nothing like Democratic whining.

The incumbent's party and government engaged in fraud and other improper coercion. Yuschenko is the good guy and the Russian troops, if there are any, are supporting the bad guy.


25 posted on 11/23/2004 5:05:18 PM PST by California Patriot
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To: ModelBreaker
Nov 23 2004 9:38PM Moscow worried by reaction of Ukrainian radical opposition MOSCOW. Nov 23 (Interfax) -

Moscow is concerned about how the Ukrainian radical opposition has reacted to the outcome of the second round of the presidential elections in Ukraine, the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement posted on its website on Tuesday evening.

"The reaction of the Ukrainian radical opposition forces to the outcome of the voting and their public calls not to recognize and annul them causes perplexity and extreme concerns. It only deserves regret that these demands aimed at destabilizing the situation have not only been supported but also provoked by representatives of certain foreign countries, including those across the ocean, and international institutions," the Foreign Ministry said.

Ukraine is hearing "calls for antidemocratic and unlawful steps and disobedient actions," the Foreign Ministry said.

"The radicals in Ukraine and outside it should understand that fomenting tensions and calling for forceful actions can extremely heat up the situation and lead to grave consequences," the statement says.

26 posted on 11/23/2004 5:05:30 PM PST by Capt. Tom (Don't confuse the Bushies with the dumb Republicans - Capt. Tom)
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: calenel
Why would they be intervening to overturn the election when their guy "won"? Something is wrong here. There is a missing piece.

This wording was my mistake. I should have said the Russians are apparently intervening to preserve an apparently fraudulent election result by the controlling party.

28 posted on 11/23/2004 5:09:12 PM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: gr8bigdude

From another post: "- George Soros is behind Yushchenko. -"

Wondering if there is truth to this - and anyone in Glo. Bank should be considered with care -

The IMF and World Bank - are two orgs. that have damaged many nations - with rules or policy -


29 posted on 11/23/2004 5:10:09 PM PST by Pastnowfuturealpha
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To: Capt. Tom
Yanukovich would be the Russian's favorite (Putin) and
Yuschenko would probably be supported by the USA.

The exit pols showed Yushchenko (USA) to be the winner. The ballot count showed Yanukovich (Putin) to be the winner.

Charges of vote fraud are being backed up by hundrreds of thousands protesting in the streets. - Tom

Well can we justify condemning Putin for the same action that Bush pulled here in the states? /sarcasm off

30 posted on 11/23/2004 5:12:30 PM PST by streetpreacher (There will be no Trolls in heaven.)
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To: Rebelbase
Never fear, Commie vote enabler Jimmy Carter is here!

LOL. Fortunately, the guy I got the email from is an election monitor and is a solid conservative--one of the best men in congress for 6 years. I trust his account completely.

31 posted on 11/23/2004 5:14:37 PM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: Capt. Tom

Thanks for the article out of Russia. Sounds like they are being coy. The Russian troops will remain 'Ukrainian Nationalists' for public consumption.


32 posted on 11/23/2004 5:15:43 PM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: California Patriot

Relax. I was winking a weird coincidence. I am perfectly aware that fraud occurs.


33 posted on 11/23/2004 5:16:52 PM PST by McChordwatcher (Still Learning FR's Ropes)
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To: ModelBreaker
Sky News ^ | November 23, 2004 snip

But after calls from outgoing president Leonid Kuchma for talks between the two sides, Yanukovych stepped aside.

Yushchenko will now become president has been reported.

The turmoil in the Ukraine followed a day of claims and counter-claims about the disputed presidential election, which has been condemned internationally as not being "free or fair".

34 posted on 11/23/2004 5:19:08 PM PST by Capt. Tom (Don't confuse the Bushies with the dumb Republicans - Capt. Tom)
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To: ModelBreaker; Mo1; Howlin; Peach; BeforeISleep; kimmie7; 4integrity; BigSkyFreeper; RandallFlagg; ..

Wow, What a report!


35 posted on 11/23/2004 5:20:27 PM PST by OXENinFLA
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To: California Patriot
B...B...But, I thought the Russians were our friends? Just ask MarMema; she'll (She?) tell 'ya!



36 posted on 11/23/2004 5:20:36 PM PST by streetpreacher (There will be no Trolls in heaven.)
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To: ModelBreaker

Chilling shades of 1933.


37 posted on 11/23/2004 5:21:01 PM PST by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: prairiebreeze
So the Russians are said to be behind the opposition? Am I understanding this correctly?

No. They are trying to keep the existing regime in power despite that the opposition apparently won the election.

38 posted on 11/23/2004 5:22:27 PM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: McChordwatcher; PJ-Comix
The exit polls said he won, but the ballots did not.

Danger, Will Robinson, danger!

That's the DU argument...

39 posted on 11/23/2004 5:22:41 PM PST by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!)
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To: streetpreacher

Yeah, her and the whole pan Slavist brigade.


40 posted on 11/23/2004 5:23:05 PM PST by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: Lion in Winter

So, who's the good guy in this election?


41 posted on 11/23/2004 5:24:00 PM PST by monkeywrench
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To: PatrickHenry; PhiKapMom

Please circulate to your ping lists, if you think it appropriate. Bob Schaffer has requested that these events be publicized as widely as possible while he still has a means of communicating from the Ukraine. Apparently, the Russians have cut some phone lines out of the embassy there already.


42 posted on 11/23/2004 5:24:16 PM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: monkeywrench

Both crooks as far as I can make out. Anyway... this should NOT be the business of George Soros/MOVEON to decide who is ANY Country's president.... So, I would chose the lesser of two evils... the non-soros candidate.


43 posted on 11/23/2004 5:29:55 PM PST by Lion in Winter (I ain't no pussy cat... don't mess with me... ya hear! GRRRRRRrrr)
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To: ModelBreaker

US senators calling - in the MEDIA - Kuschma to cancel the election. Kuschma has two alternatives : follow in the footsteps of Yeltsin of October 1999 or follow these calls.

Place your bets. After all it's the end game.
Both ways the nuclear clock advances, the question is only the difference in advance between both alternatives


44 posted on 11/23/2004 5:30:25 PM PST by Truth666
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To: Pastnowfuturealpha
I know about the Russians(where they come from) - but what about this guy - who backs him (what power or "money")- if you know.

I don't know. If I get further data out of the Ukraine I will post. I will enquire about your question. But it's not clear that communications are not being cut (see the article) so I don't know how much longer my source will be able to communicate.

45 posted on 11/23/2004 5:31:11 PM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: ModelBreaker

Hope they can take care of this themselves. I tire of being the world cop.


46 posted on 11/23/2004 5:32:25 PM PST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: streetpreacher
B...B...But, I thought the Russians were our friends? Just ask MarMema; she'll (She?) tell 'ya!

And, they didn't even ask the UN. I thought preemptive intervention was only supposed to come with UN approval.

47 posted on 11/23/2004 5:32:25 PM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: Lion in Winter
Thanks. That's pretty much my opinion, too. Sounds like the Ukraine people get screwed, either way.

As many countries as Soros has peed off, I'm surprised he's still around.

48 posted on 11/23/2004 5:32:51 PM PST by monkeywrench
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To: ModelBreaker

I just read another article - guess he is taking over the country - Hope the people don't live to regret it -


Are we seeing the destruction of nations - just as what is happening in the U.S. - A guy thought to be good - gets elected(Clinton) - then does nothing but work to destroy - along with the old major media -

Who to trust these days - really hard to tell -


49 posted on 11/23/2004 5:34:13 PM PST by Pastnowfuturealpha
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To: ModelBreaker

Yeah, it's supposed to pass a global test, isn't it?


50 posted on 11/23/2004 5:35:18 PM PST by Aarchaeus
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