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Debate on Wife Beating
http://www.memritv.org/ ^ | 9/26/2004 | Qatar TV

Posted on 11/24/2004 9:35:29 AM PST by bikepacker67

The following are excerpts from a discussion on wife beating on Qatar TV:

Dr. Ibrahim Elias, a lawyer: There is a difference between instilling discipline and aggression. Likewise, there is a difference between wife beating as a phenomenon, as a right, as a duty, or as a rule.

The phenomenon of beatings is widespread, but does religion support beatings? No, religion is a means of therapy. When Allah said in the Koran "and beat them," he didn't establish it as a rule, but as a means of therapy. Does a surgeon wield a knife from the outset in order to operate? No, if there is a gangrened limb, he amputates it, and if there is pain, he treats it efficiently. Islam refers to the issue of beating at the end of the verse. Before verse 34 in the Al-Nisa Sura in the Koran it says, "As for those from whom you fear disobedience…" "Disobedience" means a wife who refrains from obeying the man. The man is the guardian in his home, he is the judge, and of better judgment. When the wife rebels…

Moderator Muna Al-Shazli: The judge and of better judgment?

Elias: Indeed, he is of better judgment. The man is the judge in his home.

Al-Shazli: There are many cases of people, including Arabs, where the wife has better judgment.

Elias: I am speaking as a rule.

Al-Shazli: Excuse me for a moment, if we accept everything in our lives as a given, we will never make progress. I'm usually neutral but there is no one here to help me, so let's discuss this…

Elias: I am neutral…

Al-Shazli: You claim that as a rule, the man is of better judgment?

Elias: Allah claims this.

Iman Bibars, Director of the Womens' Development Society: I conducted a study in seven random areas in Cairo, in Palestine, Kuwait, Jordan, and Syria. I'd like to say that I found something that took me by surprise. I call it "a culture of the electricity cable." What does it mean? The men in the study did not know one another, but they all used to beat their wives with electricity cables. These cables are large and they would beat their wives.

Dr. Elias:Our civil law and Islamic law do not present wife-beating as a rule, but they deal with a situation where a man beats his wife. What should we do then? My friend, if you beat your wife and it's only light beatings in order to set things straight - that's it. We forgive light beatings. We tell him, "They are not considered an assault, but discipline."

Al-Shazli: What do you mean by light beatings? I'd very much like to know what they are…

Elias: Light beatings, from the legal aspect…

Al-Shazli: I'd like to say something. When a man treats his wife this way, when his hand is like an iron rod, she is hurt, physically and mentally… What kind of idea is this "light beatings"?

Elias: Light beatings are not excessive. They don't leave a mark, don't break bones, don't cause bleeding, and don't cause death. These are light beatings. With some women - nothing helps except beatings.

Bibars And with some men - nothing helps except beatings.

Elias:: For example, a man comes home from work and finds his wife watching TV. She doesn't even get up to make him food. He tells her once, twice, and asks again. If only once he would raise his voice and beat her, she would get up to prepare food for him and by the next day she'd be obedient. This will last for a week and when she forgets, he will remind her. Let's admit it, the woman was created from a crooked rib.

I would like to send a message from here: The wife must speak quietly and she must carry out all her duties toward her husband and family. She must not give her husband the chance to beat her, and if he has already beaten her, she must treat him in a way that will not cause him to repeat it, so the beatings won't become a habit.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy; War on Terror; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: domesticabuse; islam; koran; koranimals; muslim; quran; wifebeating
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Western women better wake the hell up, because in 50 years this debate may be taking place from Ottawa to L.A.
1 posted on 11/24/2004 9:35:29 AM PST by bikepacker67
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To: bikepacker67

Oh. My. God.


2 posted on 11/24/2004 9:38:14 AM PST by Judith Anne (Thank you St. Jude for favors granted.)
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To: bikepacker67
"When Allah said in the Koran "and beat them," he didn't establish it as a rule, but as a means of therapy."

Pathetic.

3 posted on 11/24/2004 9:38:20 AM PST by BenLurkin (Big government is still a big problem.)
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To: bikepacker67

Can you feel the Peace and Love just oooozzzeee from the Muslims???


4 posted on 11/24/2004 9:38:50 AM PST by jrestrepo
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To: Pitiricus

Does this sound 90% similar to Jewish morality to you?


5 posted on 11/24/2004 9:38:55 AM PST by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: bikepacker67
Debate on Wife Beating

Weekly or bi-weekly?

6 posted on 11/24/2004 9:39:15 AM PST by Always Right
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To: bikepacker67

Islam is evil.


7 posted on 11/24/2004 9:39:33 AM PST by Dallas59 ("A weak peace is worse than war" - Tacitcus)
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To: bikepacker67
I wish these women could learn the martial arts so they could retaliate and beat the *&%$ of out these bullies when provoked.

Unfortunately, since these poor women can't even leave their houses, they can't do much of anything. This is an appalling situation. How can liberals defend these political systems?

8 posted on 11/24/2004 9:41:26 AM PST by Republicanprofessor
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To: bikepacker67
ELIAS: "With some women - nothing helps except beatings. " [snip] "Let's admit it, the woman was created from a crooked rib."

These creeps make even the most knuckle dragging American male look positively enlightened.

9 posted on 11/24/2004 9:41:33 AM PST by BenLurkin (Big government is still a big problem.)
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To: bikepacker67
Let's admit it, the woman was created from a crooked rib.

And we all know that only a Jack@ss has a crooked body parts to extract >:>

10 posted on 11/24/2004 9:41:47 AM PST by najida (Friends may come and go, but enemies accumulate.)
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To: Judith Anne
Check out the link...

It's a great way to see, up close, the MooseLimbs for what they are, instead of what CAIR tells us they are.

11 posted on 11/24/2004 9:42:27 AM PST by bikepacker67 ("This is the best election night in history." -- DNC chairman Terry McAuliffe 11/2/04 8pm)
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To: bikepacker67

Al-Shazli & Bibars better lay low for a few years if they don't want their heads handed to them, literally.


12 posted on 11/24/2004 9:43:09 AM PST by Dad2Angels
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To: bikepacker67

Start with bloody and violent scriptures, fold in idolatry, blend with false prophet - and you get Islam.


13 posted on 11/24/2004 9:43:49 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: wideawake

No, Judaism does NOT condone wife beating.


14 posted on 11/24/2004 9:44:07 AM PST by newberger (The amazing thing about communication is that it ever occurs at all!)
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To: bikepacker67

Absolutely mind-boggling. I suppose the one advocating a "light beating" would be the "moderate" in the group. It looks like one or two of them think wife beating is wrong because at times the wife has better judgement than the husband. These would be the "apostates" in the group. But the consensus seems to be that wife beating is ordained by Allah and so is the duty of the husband to ensure obedience and domestic tranquility.

When I read stuff like this I am suddenly made aware of just how blessed I am to live in the U.S. There is plenty of nuttiness here but at least it doesn't take the form of open and approved barbarism. There are beasts here who beat women but they are likely to end up in jail not hailed as dutiful husbands.


15 posted on 11/24/2004 9:44:10 AM PST by scory
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To: bikepacker67
From FaithFreedom.Org:

...the book of Allah says that they are inferior to men and their husbands have the right to scourge them if they are found disobedient (4:34). It advises men to take a green branch and beat their wives, because a green branch is more flexible and hurts more. (38:44). It teaches that women will go to hell if they are disobedient to their husbands (66:10). It maintains that men have an advantage over the women (2:228). It not only denies the women's equal rights, it decrees that their witness is not admissible in the courts of law (2:282). This means that a woman who is raped cannot accuse her rapist unless she can produce a male witness. Our Holy Prophet allows us to marry up to four wives and he licensed us to sleep with our slave maids and as many 'captive' women as we may have (4:3) even if those women are already married. He himself did just that.

[A word of warning for those who may find their version of Quran is translated differently from those appearing in this article: Almost all the translators of Quran have deliberately tried to soften the harsh verses of Quran. Yusufali especially goes out of his way to twists the meaning of the words and hide the harshness of Quran. For example he translates the verse (38:44) that says "take a green branch and beat your wife" as "take a little green grass and strike therewith". Or when he translates the verse (4:34) that says "beat your wife" he cannot help it but to add the word (lightly) in parenthesis.]


16 posted on 11/24/2004 9:45:53 AM PST by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade.)
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To: Always Right

Daily.


17 posted on 11/24/2004 9:47:00 AM PST by It's me
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To: newberger

I recall nothing in the Old Testament that even comes close to approval of wife beating.


18 posted on 11/24/2004 9:47:10 AM PST by maro
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To: newberger
I wish these women could learn the martial arts so they could retaliate and beat the *&%$ of out these bullies when provoked. What about letting women own AK-47s like everyone else? Marksmanship IS a martial art. Contrary to liberal BS the martial arts are not about meditation, growth, spiritual development, exercise, yadda yadda. They are the collective arts of warfare.
19 posted on 11/24/2004 9:48:26 AM PST by boofus
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To: bikepacker67

Perhaps Sidney Blumenthal should consider converting to Islam.


20 posted on 11/24/2004 9:48:27 AM PST by Incorrigible (immanentizing the eschaton)
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To: bikepacker67
Let's admit it, the woman was created from a crooked rib.

Well, now. That explains everything!

21 posted on 11/24/2004 9:48:53 AM PST by Pearls Before Swine
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To: Dallas59
Islam is based on an obscure Middle Eastern Moon diety, commandeered by an 'arab cowboy' of centuries ago to be central in his fabricated religion meant to pacify the region. Don't blame well-meaning people for the confusion they suffer because power crazed mullahs hold tight reins on their belief structure. DO BLAME fanatical Islamofascists who have further commandeered Islam to foist their murderous beliefs upon not just Muslims but the rest of the world.
22 posted on 11/24/2004 9:49:13 AM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: wideawake

23 posted on 11/24/2004 9:50:13 AM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: bikepacker67

{Al-Shazli: You claim that as a rule, the man is of better judgment?

Elias: Allah claims this.}


No, a man WROTE that Allah claims it.


24 posted on 11/24/2004 9:50:30 AM PST by truthseeker2
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To: bikepacker67

TROP

Strikes again, and again, and again.............


25 posted on 11/24/2004 9:51:25 AM PST by OXENinFLA
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To: bikepacker67

The "rule of thumb" works for me.


26 posted on 11/24/2004 9:51:49 AM PST by Manic_Episode (OUT OF ORDER)
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To: All
Another interview:

The following are excerpts from a discussion of women's rights and wife-beating in Islam:

Sheik Yusouf Al-Badri, member of the Egyptian Supreme Council for Islamic Affairs:How can you claim that I don't honor my wife, while she cooks my food, bakes my bread, kneads my dough, washes my clothes and my children's? A woman nowadays tells her husband, "You must cook with me, bake with me, and knead with me."

Moderator: What is wrong with that?

Participant: She's his partner, his partner.

Sheik Yusouf Al-Badri: Listen to this true story, Mrs. Nagwa. A guy went to ask for a girl's hand in marriage. He asked her father what she specializes in, and the father answered, "She has a degree in sociology, physiology, philology, psychology, and anthropology." He gave him a list. The guy asked if she knew how to run a household, and the father said: "No, there are servants." The young man said: "I need her to know cookology, doughology, loundryology, that's what I want. I don't want her to tell me, "I'm an anthropologist."

I use beatings [on my children], but symbolically. The same goes for women: "Admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them." Even the manner of beatings was determined. If I said it was barbarism, it would mean that the All-Knowing Creator of the World doesn't know. He's barbaric.

Moderator: No, we don’t say that. We are talking about beatings…

Sheik Yusouf Al-Badri: It's the principle. There are beatings in the Koran and in the Sunna…

Moderator: But Mrs. Farida spoke about "barbaric beatings" or "barbaric violence."

Sheik Yusouf Al-Badri: No, she objected to beatings altogether.

Moderator: No, no, no, she did say so. She said, "Barbaric violence."

Sheik Yusouf Al-Badri This means we're allowed to beat.

Moderator: Sir, you support beatings, of course.

Sheik Yusouf Al-Badri: No, she said she was against beatings.

Participant: I oppose beatings, any beatings, barbaric or other…

Moderator:What does this mean?

Sheik Yusouf Al-Badri : It means that we refer to the Koran as a book with mistakes that need to be fixed…


27 posted on 11/24/2004 9:52:31 AM PST by bikepacker67 ("This is the best election night in history." -- DNC chairman Terry McAuliffe 11/2/04 8pm)
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Comment #28 Removed by Moderator

To: bikepacker67

such a peaceful religion.


29 posted on 11/24/2004 9:53:09 AM PST by SeamusVA
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To: bikepacker67

Any man who ever lays a hand on me will live to regret the day he set eyes on me. So, there will be no argument or discussion here as far as I am concerned.


30 posted on 11/24/2004 9:53:46 AM PST by PleaseNoMore
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To: bikepacker67
I have this friend. I'll call him James, because that is his name. James loves Michael Moore. He hates GWB.

James says we should open a dialoque with folks like Bin Laden so that things like 9/11 won't happen. In fact, in The World According to James, if we had been more sensitive to Islam, 9/11 would not have happened at all.

I told James that the Islamists would not be happy until every woman in America was in a burka. I'll send this on to James and add that the women will also receive beatings so that they may better serve their men.

I wonder how James' hero Susan Sarandon will like her burka and her beatings?

A_R

31 posted on 11/24/2004 9:53:53 AM PST by arkady_renko
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To: MHGinTN

There are enough well-travelled Muslims in the world who have had the opportunity to learn from other cultures. Yet, they continue to practice this "religion of peace". They want it to stay the way it is.


32 posted on 11/24/2004 9:53:59 AM PST by truthseeker2
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To: bikepacker67

Oh charming. . . I'm not sure what there is to debate, if you feel the need to hit a woman as therapy I think you need to seek a TOTALLY different kind of therapy.


33 posted on 11/24/2004 9:55:14 AM PST by Tempest (Click on my name for a long list of press contacts)
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To: anniegetyourgun
Start with bloody and violent scriptures, fold in idolatry, blend with false prophet - and you get Islam.

Mix with copious amounts of killing, genocide, discrimination and a cult brainwashed to support murder by it's latter day leaders, and you have Modern Day Islam!

34 posted on 11/24/2004 9:57:46 AM PST by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade.)
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To: arkady_renko

{ have this friend. I'll call him James, because that is his name. James loves Michael Moore. He hates GWB.
James says we should open a dialoque with folks like Bin Laden so that things like 9/11 won't happen.}

Um...wasn't Moore one of the ones who started the rumor that Bush met with Bin Laden in New York, therefore Bush knew about 9/11 ahead of time? I know I heard that somewhere.


35 posted on 11/24/2004 9:58:00 AM PST by truthseeker2
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To: Pookyhead

I understand it as you do. God created Eve to be a helpmate or partner' not to be some subservient wench at his beck and call.


36 posted on 11/24/2004 9:58:01 AM PST by PleaseNoMore
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To: bikepacker67
She must not give her husband the chance to beat her, and if he has already beaten her, she must treat him in a way that will not cause him to repeat it, so the beatings won't become a habit.

[vomit]

37 posted on 11/24/2004 9:58:10 AM PST by Petronski (New York London Paris Munich Ev'rybody Talk About Mmm Pop Music)
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To: Judith Anne

gotta ditto that.


38 posted on 11/24/2004 9:58:49 AM PST by softengine (We MUST bust Sandy "I stuff my pants" Berger.)
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To: Pookyhead
Exactly.

I was asking my rhetorical question to Pitiricus, who maintained on another thread that authoritative rabbis had opined that Islamic and Jewish morality were 90% identical.

Clearly there is no comparison between Judaism and Islam.

39 posted on 11/24/2004 9:59:35 AM PST by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: Puppage

?


40 posted on 11/24/2004 10:00:09 AM PST by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: bikepacker67
Elias:: For example, a man comes home from work and finds his wife watching TV. She doesn't even get up to make him food. He tells her once, twice, and asks again. If only once he would raise his voice and beat her, she would get up to prepare food for him and by the next day she'd be obedient. This will last for a week and when she forgets, he will remind her. Let's admit it, the woman was created from a crooked rib.

This happened to me just the other day. I get home from a long day of C-4 training school and there is no food on the table and my wife is watching Dr. Phil. So I got out my trusty electric cord and after a few minutes of discipline, I sat down in my chair, she brought me a beer, and dinner was served. Praise Allah for his wisdom.

41 posted on 11/24/2004 10:00:19 AM PST by Jimmyclyde (Dying ain't much of a living boy...)
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To: Puppage

Nevermind. I get it. LOL!


42 posted on 11/24/2004 10:00:39 AM PST by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: newberger; Pitiricus
Yes, I know.

I posted that rhetorical question to Pitiricus who was telling me on another thread that Muslim and Jewish teaching is 90% identical.

43 posted on 11/24/2004 10:02:00 AM PST by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: bikepacker67

From another Freeper about 18 months ago; More insight to their "religion" :




As for your questioning of my reading the Koran, here's some nuggets I've pulled out from my reading that lead me to believe that your "religion" is little more than an excuse to commit murder and subjugate those who have a different faith:

"Kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (Koran 2:191)

"Ye are the best of peoples evolved for mankind." (Koran 3:110)

"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and genitals cut off, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror." (Koran, 5:33-34)

"Not to make friendship with Jews and Christians" (Koran 5:51)

"Remember Allah inspired the angels: I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their fingertips off of them." (Koran, 8:12)

"In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost." (Koran, 8:37)

"If there are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you will vanquish a thousand of them [infidels]" (Koran 8:65).

Allah and his messenger announce that it is acceptable to go back on our promises (treaties) and obligations with Pagans and make war on them whenever we find ourselves strong enough to do so (Koran 9:3)

"Fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" (Koran 9:5)

Our God tells us to "fight the unbelievers" and "He will punish them by our hands, cover them with shame and help us (to victory) over them" (Koran 9:14).

"Until they pay the Jizya [a penalty tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" (Koran 9:29)

"Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place" (9:39).

"O Prophet! Make war against the unbelievers [all non-Muslims] and the hypocrites and be merciless against them. Their home is hell, an evil refuge indeed." (Koran, 9:73)

"Murder them and treat them harshly" (Koran 9:123)

"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:40)

"When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17)

"How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their sins, setting up in their place other peoples." (Koran, 21:11)

"strike off the heads of the disbelievers" (Koran 47:4)

"Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin." (Koran 69:30-37)

You can continue to hope that Americans are too lazy to read your holy screed (assuming it's "Just like the Bible") and addicted to the farce of multiculturalism to wake up and see you for what you are, but your co-religionists are working at a cross purpose. Each time a muslim draws inspiration from allah and kills as many infidels as he can, more civilized people realize that islam is a religion of hatred and violence.


44 posted on 11/24/2004 10:02:58 AM PST by Calamari (Pass enough laws and everyone is guilty of something.)
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To: Republicanprofessor
I wish these women could learn the martial arts so they could retaliate and beat the *&%$ of out these bullies when provoked.

That would have been by response, i.e. learn how to defend yourself... I wonder what their laws and social attitudes are about women beating up their husbands...

45 posted on 11/24/2004 10:02:59 AM PST by njwoman
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To: It's me

Why just the other day I had my wife down on her knees,begging.......me to come out from under the bed and fight like a man. Wife beating? What kind of world do they live in?


46 posted on 11/24/2004 10:03:37 AM PST by Texas Songwriter (Texas Songwriter)
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To: wideawake

:-)


47 posted on 11/24/2004 10:04:07 AM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: USF
...the book of Allah says that they are inferior to men and their husbands have the right to scourge them if they are found disobedient (4:34). It advises men to take a green branch and beat their wives, because a green branch is more flexible and hurts more. (38:44). It teaches that women will go to hell if they are disobedient to their husbands (66:10). It maintains that men have an advantage over the women (2:228). It not only denies the women's equal rights, it decrees that their witness is not admissible in the courts of law (2:282). This means that a woman who is raped cannot accuse her rapist unless she can produce a male witness. Our Holy Prophet allows us to marry up to four wives and he licensed us to sleep with our slave maids and as many 'captive' women as we may have (4:3) even if those women are already married. He himself did just that.

I typically don't count myself a feminist but this really ticks me off.

48 posted on 11/24/2004 10:04:27 AM PST by softengine (We MUST bust Sandy "I stuff my pants" Berger.)
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To: bikepacker67
With some women - nothing helps except beatings.

This guy must know my ex-wife. /sarcasm
49 posted on 11/24/2004 10:06:31 AM PST by glaseatr (God Bless, My Nephew, SGT Adam Estep 2nd Bat, 5th Cav reg died Thursday April 29, 2004 Baghdad Iraq)
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To: Republicanprofessor

These poor women don't have much of a life, do they. So sad.
Lord forbid if the women were ever allowed to socialize freely or hold jobs...they would all leave jackasses like these in droves. And what would these poor "men" do without a slave to cook their meals and wipe their butts? Sickening!


50 posted on 11/24/2004 10:06:49 AM PST by derllak
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