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Attitude Adjustment Is Due
The Washington Times ^ | November 26, 2004 | Thom Loverro

Posted on 11/26/2004 10:27:23 AM PST by 7thson

Mixed in with all the beatdowns and battles that dominated sports this past week was this little action by the NFL - Indianapolis Colts tight ends Marcus Pollard and Dallas Clark were each fined $5,000 for the "jump-and-bump" routine the two had taken to performing after scoring a touchdown.

(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Unclassified; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: al; artest; baseball; basketball; browns; culture; football; nba; nfl; nl; pacers; pistons; racism; ravens; redskins; steelers; terrellowens
So, what's the opinion here? Does anyone think it will get as far as someone killing another person? Years ago, I heard that Michael Irvin stabbed a teammate with a pair of scissors in the locker room. Anyone know if that is true? Back here in DC, Michael Westbrook sucker punched Stephen Davis in practice. You have Warren Sapp walk over to the other teams warm-ups and getting involved with them. The fight in the Pittsburgh-Cleveland pregame warmups. The Artest fiasco. When is it going to stop? Is it a clash of culture? Is it the gangster culture being shown in full light to America?
1 posted on 11/26/2004 10:27:24 AM PST by 7thson
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To: 7thson

I noticed all the references involve blacks? Perhaps it's a black thing? Is it possible?

No, of course it's not possible... To contemplate otherwise would be racist.


2 posted on 11/26/2004 10:33:37 AM PST by odoso (Millions for charity, but not one penny for tribute!)
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To: 7thson

I've been reading Phil Musnick's Cassandra warnings in the Post for some time now, e.g.:

"It all comes together, from switching to gang colors to trash-talk. You can't sell bad and expect good in return. About 20 years ago, we began to sell "attitude," with the commissioners' tacit approvals. Boiled attitude is now served daily. Are we happy now? "

Here's the link:
http://www.nypost.com/sports/20771.htm


3 posted on 11/26/2004 10:37:17 AM PST by Syberyenta
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To: 7thson
Years ago, I heard that Michael Irvin stabbed a teammate with a pair of scissors in the locker room. Anyone know if that is true?

yes, I believe it was some rookie (everett mciver?), and IIRC, reports were that he paid him $1,000,000 to shut up about it.

4 posted on 11/26/2004 10:39:14 AM PST by Libertarian4Bush (Teeee-OH, tee-OH tee-OH tee-OH.... tee-oh.... tee-ohhhh.... FLY EAGLES FLY)
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To: odoso
I noticed all the references involve blacks? Perhaps it's a black thing? Is it possible?

You mean like Mark Gastineau's sack dance that started the whole thing about "taunting" in the NFL ? And significantly shortened his career ?

No, of course it's not possible... To contemplate otherwise would be racist.

But that wouldn't stop you, now would it ?

5 posted on 11/26/2004 10:39:35 AM PST by Sam the Sham
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To: 7thson

Bunch of Prima-Donnas behaving badly.

No more - No less.


6 posted on 11/26/2004 10:40:15 AM PST by roaddog727 (The marginal propensity to save is 1 minus the marginal propensity to consume.)
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To: 7thson

It's completely understandable behavior from punks. You can make a punk a millionaire but he's still a punk.


7 posted on 11/26/2004 10:41:48 AM PST by NoControllingLegalAuthority
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To: Sam the Sham

That's all you have? I especially enjoy like the way you pass the buck, Sham


8 posted on 11/26/2004 10:44:08 AM PST by odoso (Millions for charity, but not one penny for tribute!)
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To: 7thson
Is it the gangster culture being shown in full light to America? Whatever it is, grandstanding / showboating whatever it is has taken a tone of intimidation and taunting of EVERYONE, that they can act like morons and get away with it because they are (Fill in the blank).

People have been making excuses for their behaviour for a number of reasons too, and this has to stop. Peole ARE going to go to the games, even though the best way to make a point is to leave the stands empty.

However, I believe the various organizations need to adopt a zero tolerance / termination policy. ANY TROUBLE in or out of the club, you'll be termainated. If you assault anyone for anything and bring disgrace to the team, you will be sued for losses to the organization in finding and training someone to fill your slot. Also, all endorsments should be pulled. That's it, end of the gravy train.. If you can't control yourself, go live on the street. You're banned from the game forever. Now, get out.

The only way to stop it, IMO, is to STOP IT. This will trickle down directly to college teams, highschool, and so on. The glorificaton of this crap has influenced childrens 'tude on the field too.. I want teams to be good sportmen, role models, good citizens, polite to their fans, and give back to their communities in a positive fashion.. If they don't like the fact that's they way I like a sports star to behave, too bad. Our games are watched by people around the world, and if the best players dont have the best manners, I don't want them on TV.. They represent America too.

9 posted on 11/26/2004 10:46:40 AM PST by JesseJane (Air France flights 1192, 491, 288, 751, 216, now boarding...)
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To: odoso

Your kind has a way of appearing on threads like this like flies around a corpse.

No one is passing any "buck". Just telling the truth unlike you.


10 posted on 11/26/2004 10:48:29 AM PST by Sam the Sham
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To: Syberyenta

I remember in the mid to late 80's, the Detroit Pistons Bad Boys image - with approval by the league and sports writers. Those guys were thugs - especially Lambrier! Instead of stopping it then and there, all leagues gave tacit approval. Now we are where we are.


11 posted on 11/26/2004 10:54:54 AM PST by 7thson (I think it takes a big dog to weigh a hundred pounds!)
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To: JesseJane

You're right about zero tolerance, but I think it needs to be done by the NFL. Otherwise the bad boy that has talent will merely go from the team that canned him to one that is full of bad boys.

I really like your idea about the team suing the player for losses to the organization and finding and training someone to fill their slot. I would go one step further and write it into their contract that if they misbehave in a way that gets them canned, their contract is now null and void, i.e. the team will not be buying out their contract. This would need to be, again, an NFL stipulation (if you want to play football in the NFL, you have to have this clause. no exceptions) maybe done as part of the union negotiations when it's time to renegotiate the collective bargaining agreement.

I miss Tom Landry. He would not have tolerated any of this crap from any of his players. They would have been gone, no matter how good they were.


12 posted on 11/26/2004 10:57:18 AM PST by Warhammer (Kerry is a liar...If he was Pinochio he would be leaving boogers on the moon.)
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To: Sam the Sham
Gasineau's was white and he was part of the taunting rule in the NFL. But the main act were the Skins Fun Bunch leap in the end zone. Whenever one of the receivers scored a TD, they all gather and jump up, slapping a high five.

But let's get to the black thing for a moment. Where did those stupid looking long shorts they have in the NBA come from? How about all the body tatoos? The scarves, stockings, and bandanas on the head? The term "dis?" The celebrations for first downs, sacks, tackles, TD's? Where did all of that originate?

13 posted on 11/26/2004 10:59:59 AM PST by 7thson (I think it takes a big dog to weigh a hundred pounds!)
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To: JesseJane

I understand what you say. For years I would watch the highlights of soccer fans creating riots and eventually killing a player when he mistakenly scored for the other team. I thought that at least we do not act like that. Then the riots by citizens in cities where the team won a championship. Now we got this crap going on. It seems like everyone is losing their mind, over a game.


14 posted on 11/26/2004 11:03:21 AM PST by 7thson (I think it takes a big dog to weigh a hundred pounds!)
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To: Warhammer
I would go one step further and write it into their contract that if they misbehave in a way that gets them canned, their contract is now null and void, i.e. the team will not be buying out their contract

This is a GREAT idea!! Excellent.

15 posted on 11/26/2004 11:10:33 AM PST by JesseJane (Air France flights 1192, 491, 288, 751, 216, now boarding...)
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To: odoso; 7thson

Odious, whatever you have to say to me, say online. I have no interest in any private dialogue with bottom feeders.

7thson black people have been the engine of American popular culture for most of the 20th century. Charles Barkley and Rodman were much lauded bad boys 20 years ago. The black style of play made the NBA cool and profitable (the absence of which is why an NHL season can disappear without anyone noticing). Things have just got out of hand with young men, lots of money, lots of ego, and no restraints.


16 posted on 11/26/2004 11:12:23 AM PST by Sam the Sham
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To: Sam the Sham
No, of course it's not possible... To contemplate otherwise would be racist. But that wouldn't stop you, now would it ?

Let me ask you a question: Which genre of music is the only one that has had competing musicians kill one another? The answer: hip hop. What color are most artists and followers of hip hop? The answer: black. The violent behavior among blacks is publicly documented. You act like these things are not happening. Another question: What color were all the players involved in the Pacers/Detroit fans fight? The answer: black. Yes, some of the fans were white. Don't act like there is not evidence to back up the claim that it might be a flaw of black culture.

17 posted on 11/26/2004 11:17:34 AM PST by SALChamps03
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To: 7thson
soccer fans creating riots and eventually killing a player At the risk of sounding extreme, the situation in the Pacers game could've been far worse, if 10 thousand fans had decided that Artest needed a lesson for the flagrant foul. After that short shoving match, if 10K fans stormed the floor, can you imagine the mayhem? Now is the time for the line in the sand to be drawn. If it is a half-measure, I believe YOU WILL SEE fans revolt.

It has got to stop right now. We've let it go on too long. As an American, I am SICK of watching bad-boys excused for ANY REASON. I don't care about their reason. If they are too stupid to understand the rules, they they are too stupid to be paid big money and embarass us all. It's disgusting, and it's wrong.

If they want to be gang members, fine.. go on... take your chances outside the arena on a level playing field, where there may not be security to save your sorry butt. If they want to take that attitude and work at K-Mart, see how long you last. People are sick of the coddling.. And tired the ever increasing ticket costs to pay for that BS. JMHO>>

18 posted on 11/26/2004 11:18:03 AM PST by JesseJane (Air France flights 1192, 491, 288, 751, 216, now boarding...)
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To: Sam the Sham
Oh, please educate and talk to me as if I am some sort of bumpkin right from the sticks? Why is it that when a white criticizes a black, racism is yelled. That playing card is way too old. You did not answer any of my questions from my last post.

Let's talk about music. I have mentioned on other posts how I have listened and bought music from black artists from Big Joe Turner to Kool and The Gang. Their music and style were unique and cool. But in the last twenty years, nearly everything from the black culture has taken a wrong, bad turn. This fascination with drugs, money, sex, degrading women, respect and disrepect, killing people and cops - that is sick and evil! It does not matter who does it. Whites have always emulated blacks in the music industry and some did it very well - Average White Band is one that comes to mind. But even today's white "gangster" rappers are sick and evil.

You bring this type of culture into sports and the Artest thing is what you get. It is interesting you bring up Barkley. I love watching that guy play. I also loved it when he said when you sign onto the NBA, it's time to leave that ghetto crap back in the ghetto. Instead, too many bring that crap with them.

Whites are not asking blacks to act like whites. What we - and nearly everyone else - want is for people to act civilized. Be polite. Play fair. Play hard. Don't taunt. Create families. Pay attention to the kids you bring into this world. Don't smack women around. Don't shoot people. Realize there are times you have to swallow your pride. I knew blacks in the Navy that would not say please because it was "begging." No, it's being polite and civilized. But when I ask that from blacks as well as everyone I encounter, I am still racist?

19 posted on 11/26/2004 11:27:37 AM PST by 7thson (I think it takes a big dog to weigh a hundred pounds!)
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To: Sam the Sham; 7thson

You wouldn't know Truth if it walked up to you and spat in your face.

However, the pain in your reply's indicates there is hope that you may one day face the Truth, embrace it and understand it's meaning. Until then, keep up the personal attacks, your quite good at that.


20 posted on 11/26/2004 11:29:42 AM PST by odoso (Millions for charity, but not one penny for tribute!)
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To: SALChamps03

Actually, most hip hop is bought by whites. If it had only black audiences, bling-bling would mean cubic zirconia. We see the steady Eminem-ization of white youth culture with crystal meth as the drug of choice.


21 posted on 11/26/2004 11:30:49 AM PST by Sam the Sham
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To: JesseJane; Sam the Sham
What I am very tired of hearing are the sports writers that excuse this behavior and say you cannot deprive these young men from making a living. No one is depriving them from making a living. You want to play ball - either start your own league or go play in Europe. You want to fight - be a boxer! If someone embezzles money from a bank, goes to prison for a few years, and comes out, do you think any bank will hire him? Yet, no one is depriving him of making a living. There are many ways to make a living. Getting back to B-Ball, these fine upstanding athletes, how many of them graduated from college. Don't they have a degree? Can't they make a living on what they majored in?

Ahh, but that's the dirty little secret. Most of us know that the majority of these athletes - black or white - are about as smart as a rock! You can hear it when they speak, how they act, how they treat others!

This crap did not happen years ago and sports such as basketball, football, and baseball have always been a poor mans sport. Not to many millionaires are playing these games as kids. Mostly because it is a way for someone with special abilities to break away and from the poverty they come from - whether it is the coal mines, the cotten fields, the steel mills, the factories, the ghetto. Yet, players did not act like thise for the most part. Now, with million dollar salaries, we expect better. Yet, they still act like punks and gangsters.

22 posted on 11/26/2004 11:37:21 AM PST by 7thson (I think it takes a big dog to weigh a hundred pounds!)
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To: 7thson
Now, with million dollar salaries, we expect better.

I expect people to act civilized, and shunned when they don't. That goes in politics too... look at the screaming political pundits on CrossFire etc. Our society has lowered the bar so far, its time to jerk it back.

Example of Lawrence O'Donnell losing his mind and screaming LIAR over and over at John O'Neil recently. THAT should've been grounds for termination on the spot. The lack of decent ADULT behavior on 'Court Shows' seemed to spiral out of control back in the OJ days.. We've allowed this to continue... and now it's time to put a stop to it.

Sports is probably the most obvious place that a zero tolerance plan would be effective at changing behaviors right down the line.

Sports have rules to deal with infractions. That's it. You don't need someone to make a movie about it. You don't need to flap you gums to the media after the game. Especially if you can not effectively speak the English language. That TOO is something teams should consider. THIS GUY IS A GRADUATE OF WHAT COLLEGE?? Please, fire the professors and tear up the degree. What a sham.

23 posted on 11/26/2004 11:51:43 AM PST by JesseJane (Air France flights 1192, 491, 288, 751, 216, now boarding...)
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To: 7thson

Since Ron Artets's bone-headed reaction to being hit yet again by something thrown from the stands and the resulting violence that ensued, every jerk with a hard-on for "those overpaid thugs and gangsters" that play professional sports has had something to say.

In all the years I have been on Free Republic I have never been more disgusted with the members of this forum than during the last week. Many, not all, of the opinions voiced in these pages have been overtly racist and dripping with the same kind of resentment and hatred the class-warfare mavens on the left espouse.

Many posters to this thread and the "Detroit Brawl" threads have little interest in facts or context when describing these events, especially when those facts don't support their own bitter worldview.

I have my own opinion:

The great majority of pro atheletes are black and many like
rap music (which in itself is a sign of wickedness to many
on this forum).

The great majority of pro atheletes are decent people that work very hard.

The great majority of pro atheletes have attended college with many if not most having degrees.

The great majority of pro atheletes have never had trouble with the law.

The great majority of pro atheletes make more money than you or I (The fact they do so for playing a game drives many on this forum absolutely mad. It seems that some free-market advocates don't have the same view when it comes to pro sports).



If you don't like professional sports don't watch it. If you don't like black people don't watch it. But please keep your small-minded and bigoted opinions to yourself and leave my favorite sports and players alone.


PresidentFelon




24 posted on 11/26/2004 12:20:09 PM PST by PresidentFelon (Reuters Reporter Adam Entous beats his mother)
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To: PresidentFelon

The act STARTED with Artests flagrant foul, not the fan that threw the cup.

BTW, a statistic about the NBA. 40% of NBA players have a felony record. Perhaps you can break down the stats with some information.

The commments I've read have not been racist. If music of any kind has an effect on your civil behaviour, then you are too immature to play professional sports or hold a job where being civil is an expectation.

As far as the great majority of athletes being black, I guess it depends on what sport you watch. I love any sport, particularly boxing, hockey, baseball and CURLING, yes curling. I've never seen a curling match turn to crap. I have no stats as to why that is. We DO NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT bad-boy / bad sport behaviour to appease someones claims of racism. We are a civilized society, and have to try to maintain a standard of common decency. Sportsmen like behaviour HAS fallen to the wayside, but I have been encouraged with the actions of some teams that have enough self-respect to behave like ADULTS, rather than spoiled out of control children.

It's not RACIST to expect good behaviour from anyone. It's that simple to me anyway.


25 posted on 11/26/2004 1:24:12 PM PST by JesseJane (Air France flights 1192, 491, 288, 751, 216, now boarding...)
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To: Sam the Sham

I find that almost impossible to believe. I am not saying that whites do not buy it. I'm sure they do. There is no way that they are the majority customer.


26 posted on 11/26/2004 10:40:54 PM PST by SALChamps03
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To: SALChamps03

If only blacks bought rap would Eminem be a star ? Wouldn't he have faded alongside Vanilla Ice, Snow, and Brian Austin Green ?


27 posted on 11/27/2004 7:46:31 AM PST by Sam the Sham
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To: Sam the Sham

You clearly are not listening. Whites are not the majority audience.


28 posted on 11/27/2004 10:46:36 PM PST by SALChamps03
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To: odoso
Alas, it is not just a black thing. Upon observing a football match between New England and Buffalo a couple weeks back, let it be known that upon the completion of a touchdown strike between Tom Brady and Christian Fauria (two white dudes), they then engaged in a most despicable "pump and thump" routine in which Tom Brady pumped his fist and Christian Fauria thumped the ball, hard, against the ground in the end zone.

This display of poor sportsmanship occured so fast that I did not have time to cover the eyes of my 13-year-old son who was watching with me.

Until the NFL cleans up there act, I'm afraid that I am forced to watch all their forthcoming games on time-delay (TIVO) so that I can screen out all objectionable conduct before allowing the children to view.

29 posted on 11/27/2004 10:57:09 PM PST by SamAdams76 (Red Sox Win The World Series...And Bush Wins Re-election Too!)
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To: 7thson

There's just no end to the goofiness among large, stupid people, is there?


30 posted on 11/27/2004 11:00:53 PM PST by Hank Rearden (Never allow anyone who could only get a government job attempt to tell you how to run your life.)
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To: Sam the Sham
Why can't we just all get along?

The problem is that the white kids have been so scared of the "tough" black kids, that they have emulated them, to just get along.

It is a classic synptom, which has been allowed to fester, becaused the white kids parents don't have the balls to tell the kids to turn that shiite music off, and put on some pants that fit. Combine that with the demise of the two parent family, and kids need a role model...and will take anything that appears to be standing out!

Bigotry is most prevalent in the black race, however. I give you Secretary of State designate, Condoleeza Rice, and Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, as prime examples. I have had some interesting conversations about racism, with Justice Thomas, at our common church... and these are commonlyt held views! How may Irish-Americans, or German-Americans, or whatever color/heritage background can have a festival on the Mall in Washington, DC, without being called racist?

Because someone is a good athlete, or musician, he is able to make tons of money. That is because they are generating profits for some corporations. All young folks want to make tons of money, and when they see someone do it so easily, they are jealous. That jealousy grows with age!

But, tght being said, bad manners, and bad actions certainly don't make for pleasant company. I am a WASP, and generally have friends at my home, of any color, or race, but they are all "pleasant company"! Otherwise, keep them away from me and mine!

31 posted on 11/27/2004 11:06:44 PM PST by pageonetoo (I could name them, but you'll spot their posts soon enough.)
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To: odoso

noticed all the references involve blacks? Perhaps it's a black thing? Is it possible?


its just that pro srorts are about 75% black


32 posted on 11/28/2004 10:53:32 AM PST by al baby (she stuned my little beeber)
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To: al baby

sports


33 posted on 11/28/2004 10:54:05 AM PST by al baby (she stuned my little beeber)
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To: 7thson

Don't forget Latrell Sprewell choking Carlesimo!!

I stopped watching the news, and I've pretty much given up watching sports - just golf every so often.


34 posted on 11/28/2004 11:00:59 AM PST by aquila48
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To: pageonetoo

sorta like the getto version of the stockholm syndrome


35 posted on 11/28/2004 11:01:53 AM PST by al baby (she stuned my little beeber)
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To: al baby
sorta like the getto version of the stockholm syndrome

Indeed.

what surprises me most, is that we have people who actually claim not to be bigots. I am certainly bigoted, but not racially as much as I am against stereotypical statements, posted as fact, by folk with an axe to grind.

I dislike ignorant people, and don't care where they come from, or of what color is their skin... I just don't want to have anything to do with them!

I was blessed by being raised by a military man. In the 50's and 60's, base housing was allotted by rank, not race. We had friends of all persuasions. We fought against each other, and for each other, at different times, just like siblings! We all shared a commonality with our parents choice of career, and the military did not tolerate then, what they have to put up with now!!!

We did get along!

36 posted on 11/28/2004 5:57:27 PM PST by pageonetoo (I could name them, but you'll spot their posts soon enough.)
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