Skip to comments.The Separation of Church and State Myth:Why God MUST Be Acknowledged.
Posted on 11/26/2004 7:18:49 PM PST by Arkansas Boy
The Separation of Church and State Myth: Why God MUST be acknowledged.
How many of you have heard the term Separation of Church and State is in the Constitution? How many of you know that the Constitution does not even contain that phase? I would like to address a very important issue an issue upon which the future of our nation rests: The issue is whether or not our government will acknowledge God.
The First Amendment is the main defense of those who wish to keep God out of our law and government. These folks say that the First Amendment is supposed to erect a barrier of Separation between Church and State. This is simply not true. The fact is, the phrase Separation of Church and State is not found in the First Amendment, or anywhere in the Constitution. The First Amendment to the United States Constitution simply states:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. . . (it goes on to discuss freedom of the press, etc.)
Known as the Establishment Clause, this amendment was meant to protect religious freedom by giving the churches protection from the government, not the government protection from the churches. Let me explain: When Americas forefathers fled England, they were seeking freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. They did not want the government to meddle with Christendom and establish a "National Church" which would impair other denominations, as King James had done by establishing the Church of England.
Our founding documents, such as the Declaration of Independence, acknowledge the founders dependence upon God. The Declaration alone refers to the Sovereign Creator four times as God, Creator, The Supreme Judge of the World, and Divine Providence.
This nation was explicitly founded upon Christian principles, upon the God of the Holy Bible, but not upon one particular Christian denomination. This is further evidenced in the writings of our forefathers! Patrick Henry, the great revolutionary leader, said it best:
It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.
While other people may be free to practice Buddhism, Hinduism, or Humanism on our soil, we are STILL a nation governed by Biblical principles. Our laws were not established on some trivial ideals, but on the solid and unchanging Word of God. The rally cry of the Revolutionary War was No King but King Jesus! It is on this very foundation that America was born, and it is upon this very foundation that the future of America rests.
Some people think Theres no place for God in government. What they dont realize is that when God is cut out, something else must be put in. Removing God and His principles from government never results in neutrality, but always results in the government stepping in and playing god. When God is rejected, the government is not held to any absolute. They become the highest authority. Right and wrong becomes whatever the government says it is. When God is not in the picture our liberties are no longer recognized as God-given, but rather as State-given. The peoples unalienable rights and the peoples authority over their government is no longer recognized by the public servants, because there is no recognized authority higher than themselves. When the government does not acknowledge God as Sovereign, the government becomes a law unto itself. This is called tyranny, and this is what our forefathers tenaciously fought against.
For years now, God has been generally cut out of education, society, and government. Tolerance has become the rallying cry! But, as one wise gentleman once said, The only thing tolerance tolerates is tolerance. Folks, tolerance only tolerates God and the Bible when they are kept in a closet! Gods principles have been hushed in public circles. Why are we surprised when the phrase one nation, under God is attacked in the Pledge of Allegiance? God is being taken out of our legal system, and the Ten Commandments are being stripped from public view because they offend. Why, then, should we be surprised when the murder of millions of innocent babies is called legal by our courts? Why, now, are we shocked when the sacred and God-given institution of marriage is assaulted and perverted? Will we continue to sit quietly by, and watch our State and nation rot into moral perversion like Sodom and Gomorrah? We have rejected God Almighty, the Author of Liberty. Are we surprised, then, to see that our liberties are being severed, and that we are being put, shackle by shackle, under the bonds of slavery? The Bible says, Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. God bless America I hear folks cry! But, can we expect the blessing of the very God we reject? The Bible says, Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord.
Ladies and gentlemen, we are in a crisis. However, the blame does not rest only in Washington or with our public officials. The blame rests on us. The condition of our government reflects the condition of our people.
In the Bible, God says, If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. (2 Chronicles 7:14).
My friends, we must repent for OUR rebellion against God. This is the only way Gods blessing can be restored to our land.
Then may we earnestly demand, through constitutional means, that our State and national governments return to the God who birthed them! The decision is ours. God save us, and God Save America.
Please read also my post - Yes, There is God!.
If we wish to be free--if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending--if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained--we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of hosts is all that is left us! They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength but irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable--and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.
Well stated. Did you write this?
Yes, I wrote and gave this as a speech in my community.
A great article, but I thought the Church of England
was started by Henry the 8th - so he could divorce his wife.
SFL - thx
Wow... this is great.
Fabulous, and true. This misunderstanding of our Constitution has brought untold misery.
Welcome to Free Republic.
Well done AB.
You're right. Henry VIII broke from the Holy See in Rome for the reasons you give. He was furious with the Pope who would not allow him to divorce Catherine of Aragon and marry Anne Bolyn. He simply created the Church of England, so that he could do as he pleased. What the writer probably meant by King James is that James authorized the King James version of the Bible, which from that point forward became the standard version.
A little to learn
"The Christian right is trying to rewrite the history of the United States as part of its campaign to force its religion on others. They try to depict the founding fathers as pious Christians who wanted the United States to be a Christian nation, with laws that favored Christians and Christianity.
This is patently untrue. The early presidents and patriots were generally Deists or Unitarians, believing in some form of impersonal Providence but rejecting the divinity of Jesus and the absurdities of the Old and New testaments.
Thomas Paine was a pamphleteer whose manifestos encouraged the faltering spirits of the country and aided materially in winning the war of Independence:
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all." (From:The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine, pp. 8,9 (Republished 1984, Prometheus Books, Buffalo, NY)
George Washington, the first president of the United States, never declared himself a Christian according to contemporary reports or in any of his voluminous correspondence. Washington Championed the cause of freedom from religious intolerance and compulsion. When John Murray (a universalist who denied the existence of hell) was invited to become an army chaplain, the other chaplains petitioned Washington for his dismissal. Instead, Washington gave him the appointment. On his deathbed, Washinton uttered no words of a religious nature and did not call for a clergyman to be in attendance.
(From:George Washington and Religion by Paul F. Boller Jr., pp. 16, 87, 88, 108, 113, 121, 127 (1963, Southern Methodist University Press, Dallas, TX))
John Adams, the country's second president, was drawn to the study of law but faced pressure from his father to become a clergyman. He wrote that he found among the lawyers 'noble and gallant achievments" but among the clergy, the "pretended sanctity of some absolute dunces". Late in life he wrote: "Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!"
It was during Adam's administration that the Senate ratified the Treaty of Peace and Friendship, which states in Article XI that "the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion."
(From:The Character of John Adams by Peter Shaw, pp. 17 (1976, North Carolina Press, Chapel Hill, NC) Quoting a letter by JA to Charles Cushing Oct 19, 1756, and John Adams, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by James Peabody, p. 403 (1973, Newsweek, New York NY) Quoting letter by JA to Jefferson April 19, 1817, and in reference to the treaty, Thomas Jefferson, Passionate Pilgrim by Alf Mapp Jr., pp. 311 (1991, Madison Books, Lanham, MD) quoting letter by TJ to Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse, June, 1814.)
Thomas Jefferson, third president and author of the Declaration of Independence, said:"I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian." He referred to the Revelation of St. John as "the ravings of a maniac" and wrote:
The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ levelled to every understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power, and pre-eminence. The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained."
(From:Thomas Jefferson, an Intimate History by Fawn M. Brodie, p. 453 (1974, W.W) Norton and Co. Inc. New York, NY) Quoting a letter by TJ to Alexander Smyth Jan 17, 1825, and Thomas Jefferson, Passionate Pilgrim by Alf Mapp Jr., pp. 246 (1991, Madison Books, Lanham, MD) quoting letter by TJ to John Adams, July 5, 1814.)
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." -- Thomas Jefferson (letter to J. Adams April 11,1823)
James Madison, fourth president and father of the Constitution, was not religious in any conventional sense. "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
(From:The Madisons by Virginia Moore, P. 43 (1979, McGraw-Hill Co. New York, NY) quoting a letter by JM to William Bradford April 1, 1774, and James Madison, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by Joseph Gardner, p. 93, (1974, Newsweek, New York, NY) Quoting Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments by JM, June 1785.)
Ethan Allen, whose capture of Fort Ticonderoga while commanding the Green Mountain Boys helped inspire Congress and the country to pursue the War of Independence, said, "That Jesus Christ was not God is evidence from his own words." In the same book, Allen noted that he was generally "denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian." When Allen married Fanny Buchanan, he stopped his own wedding ceremony when the judge asked him if he promised "to live with Fanny Buchanan agreeable to the laws of God." Allen refused to answer until the judge agreed that the God referred to was the God of Nature, and the laws those "written in the great book of nature."
(From:Religion of the American Enlightenment by G. Adolph Koch, p. 40 (1968, Thomas Crowell Co., New York, NY.) quoting preface and p. 352 of Reason, the Only Oracle of Man and A Sense of History compiled by American Heritage Press Inc., p. 103 (1985, American Heritage Press, Inc., New York, NY.))
Benjamin Franklin, delegate to the Continental Congress and the Constitutional Convention, said:
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion...has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble." He died a month later, and historians consider him, like so many great Americans of his time, to be a Deist, not a Christian. (From:Benjamin Franklin, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by Thomas Fleming, p. 404, (1972, Newsweek, New York, NY) quoting letter by BF to Exra Stiles March 9, 1790.)
The Proof is within your own heart, soul and mind. If you believe that there is a god, then you need no proof. If you need proof, then you should seek out the lord, for he is within you, then will be the proof.
Great speech. It is a shame but we really need to amend the Constitution to say again what it already says.
(1) Sunday Morning
Almighty God, and most merciful father, who didst command the children of Israel to offer a daily sacrifice to thee, that thereby they might glorify and praise thee for thy protection both night and day, receive, O Lord, my morning sacrifice which I now offer up to thee; I yield thee humble and hearty thanks that thou has preserved me from the danger of the night past, and brought me to the light of the day, and the comforts thereof, a day which is consecrated ot thine own service and for thine own honor. Let my heart, therefore, Gracious God, be so affected with the glory and majesty of it, that I may not do mine own works, but wait on thee, and discharge those weighty duties thou requirest of me, and since thou art a God of pure eyes, and wilt be sanctified in all who draww near unto thee, who doest not regard the sacrifice of fools, nor hear sinners who tread in thy courts, pardon, I beseech thee, my sins, remove them from thy presence, as far as the east is from the west, and accept of me for the merits of thy son Jesus Christ, that when I come into thy temple, and compass thine altar, my prayers may come before thee as incense; and as thou wouldst hear me calling upon thee in my prayers, so give me grace to hear thee calling on me in thy word, that it may be wisdom, righteousness, reconciliation and peace to the saving of the soul in the day of the Lord Jesus. Grant that I may hear it with reverence, receive it with meekness, mingle it with faith, and that it may accomplish in me, Gracious God, the good work for which thou has sent it. Bless my family, kindred, friends and country, be our God & guide this day and for ever for his sake, who ay down in the Grave and arose again for us, Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.
(2) Sunday Evening
O most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ my merciful and loving father, I acknowledge and confess my guilt, in the weak and imperfect performance of the duties of this day. I have called on thee for pardon and forgiveness of sins, but so coldly and carelessly, that my prayers are become my sin and stand in need of pardon. I have heard thy holy word, but with such deadness of spirit that I have been an unprofitable and forgetful hearer, so that, O Lord, tho' I have done thy work, yet it hath been so negligently that I may rather expect a curse than a blessing from thee. But, O God, who art rich in mercy and plenteous in redemption, mark not, I beseech thee, what I have done amiss; remember that i am but dust, and remit my transgressions, negligences & ignorances, and cover them all with the absolute obedience of thy dear Son, that those sacrifices which I have offered may be accepted by thee, in and for the sacrifice of Jesus Christ offered upon the cross for me; for his sake, ease me of the burden of my sins, and give me grace that by the call of the Gospel I may rise from the slumber of sin into the newness of life. Let me live according to those holy rules which thou hast this day prescribed in thy holy word; make me to know what is acceptable in thy holy word; make me to know what is acceptable in thy sight, and therein to delight, open the eyes of my understanding, and help me thoroughly to examine myself concerning my knowledge, faith and repentance, increase my faith, and direct me to the true object Jesus Christ the way, the truth and the life, bless O Lord, all the people of this land, from the highest to the lowest, particularly those whom thou has appointed to rule over us in church & state. continue thy goodness to me this night. These weak petitions I humbly implore thee to hear accept and ans. for the sake of thy Dear Son Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.
(3) Monday Morning
O eternal and everlasting God, I presume to present myself this morning before thy Divine majesty, beseeching thee to accept of my humble and hearty thanks, that it hath pleased thy great goodness to keep and preserve me the night past from all the dangers poor mortals are subject to, and has given me sweet and pleasant sleep, whereby I find my body refreshed and comforted for performing the duties of this day, in which I beseech thee to defend me from all perils of body and soul. Direct my thoughts, words and work, wash away my sins in the immaculate blood of the lamb, and purge my heart by thy holy spirit, from the dross of my natural corruption, that I may with more freedom of mind and liberty of will serve thee, the ever lasting God, in righteousness and holiness this day, and all the days of my life. Increase my faith in the sweet promises of the gospel; give me repentance from dead works; pardon my wanderings, & direct my thoughts unto thyself, the God of my salvation; teach me how to live in thy fear, labor in thy service, and ever to run in the ways of thy commandments; make me always watchful over my heart, that neither the terrors of conscience, the loathing of holy duties, the love of sin, nor an unwillingness to depart this life, may cast me into a spiritual slumber, but daily frame me more 7 more into the likeness of thy son Jesus Christ, that living in thy fear, and dying in thy favor, I may in thy appointed time attain the resurrection of the just unto eternal life bless my family, friends & kindred unite us all in praising & glorifying thee in all our works begun, continued, and ended, when we shall come to make our last account before thee blessed saviour, who hath taught us thus to pray, our Father, & c.
(4) Monday Evening
Most Gracious Lord God, from whom proceedeth every good and perfect gift, I offer to thy divine majesty my unfeigned praise & thanksgiving for all thy mercies towards me. Thou mad'st me at first and hst ever since sustained the work of thy own hand; thou gav'st thy Son to die for me; and hast given me assurance of salvation, upon my repentance and sincerely endeavoring to conform my life to his holy precepts and example. Thou art pleased to lengthen out to me the time of repentance and to move me to it by thy spirit and by the word, by thy mercies, and by thy judgments; out of a deepness of thy mercies, and by my own unworthiness, I do appear before thee at this time; I have sinned and done very wickedly, be merciful to me, O God, and pardon me for Jesus Christ sake; instruct me in the particulars of my duty, and suffer me not to be tempted above what thou givest me strength to bear. Take care, I pray thee of my affairs and more and more direct me in thy truth, defend me from my enemies, especially my spiritual ones. Suffer me not to be drawn from thee, by the blandishments of the world, carnal desires, the cunning of the devil, or deceitfulness of sin. work in me thy good will and pleasure, and discharge my mind from all things that are displeasing to thee, of all ill will and discontent, wrath and bitterness, pride & vain conceit of myself, and render me charitable, pure, holy, patient and heavenly minded. be with me at the hour of death; dispose me for it, and deliver me from the slavish fear of it, and make me willing and fit to die whenever thou shalt call me hence. Bless our rulers in church and state. bless O Lord the whole race of mankind, and let the world be filled with the knowledge of Thee and thy son Jesus Christ. Pity the sick, the poor, the weak, the needy, the widows and fatherless, and all that morn or are borken in heart, and be merciful to them according to their several necessities. bless my friends and grant me grace to forgive my enemies as heartily as I desire forgiveness of Thee my hevenly Father. I beseech thee to defend me this night from all evil, and do more for me than I ccan think or ask, for Jesus Christ sake, in whose most holy name & words, I continue to pray, Our Father, & c.
(5) Tuesday Morning
O Lord our God, most mighty and merciful father, I thine unworthy creature and servant, do once more approach thy presence. Though not worthy to appear before thee, because of my natural corruptions, and the many sins and transgressions which I have committed against thy divine majesty; yet I beseech thee, for the sake of him in whom thou art well pleased, the Lord Jesus Christ, to admit me to render thee deserved thanks and praises for thy manifold mercies extended toward me, for the quiet rest & repose of the past night, for food, rainment, health, peace, liberty, and the hopes of a better life through the merits of thy dear son's bitter passion. and O kind father continue thy mercy and favor to me this day, and ever hereafter; propse all my lawful undertakings; et me have all my directions from thy holy spirit; and success from thy bountiful hand. Let the bright beams of thy light so shine into my heart, and enlighten my mind in understanding thy blessed word, that I may be enabled to perform thy will in all things, and effectually resist all temptations of the world, the flesh and the devil. preserve and defend our rulers in church & state. bless the people of this land, be a father to the fatherless, a comforter to the comfortless, a deliverer to the captives, and a physician to the sick. let thy blessings guide this day and forever through J. C. in whose blessed form of prayer I conclude my weak petitions--Our Father, & c.
(6) Tuesday Evening
Most gracious God and heavenly father, we cannot cease, but must cry unto thee for mercy, because my sins cry against me for justice. How shall I address myself unto thee, I must with the publican stand and admire at thy great goodness, tender mercy, and long suffering towards me, in that thou hast kept me the past day from being consumed and brought to nought. O Lord, what is man, or the son of man, that thou regardest him; the more days pass over my head, the more sins and iniquities I heap up against thee. If I should cast up the account of my good deeds done this day, how few and small would they be; but if I should reckon my miscarriages, surely they would be many and great. O, blessed father, let thy son's blood wash me from all impurities, and cleanse me from the stains of sin that are upon me. Give me grace to lay hold upon his merits; that they may be my reconciliation and atonement unto thee,--That I may know my sins are forgiven by his death & passion. embrace me in the arms of thy mercy; vouchsafe to receive me unto the bosom of thy love, shadow me with thy wings, that I may safely rest under thy suspicion this night; and so into thy hands I commend myself, both soul and body, in the name of thy son, J. C., beseeching Thee, when this life shall end, I may take my everlasating rest with thee in thy heavenly kingdom. bless all in authority over us, be merciful to all those afflicted with thy cross or calamity, bless all my friends, forgive my enemies and accept my thanksgiving this evening for all the mercies and favors afforded me; hear and graciously answer these my requests, and whaatever else thou see'st needful grant us, for the sake of Jesus Christ in whose blessed name and words I continue to pray, Our Father, & c.
(7) A Prayer for Wednesday Morning
Almighty and eternal Lord God, the great creator of heaven & earth, and the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ; look down from heaven, in pity and compassion upon me thy servant, who humbly prostrate myself before thee, sensible of thy mercy and my own misery; there is an infinite distance between thy glorious majesty and me, thy poor creature, the work of thy hand, between thy infinite power, and my weakness, thy wisdom, and my folly, thy eternal Being, and my mortal frame, but, O Lord, I have set myself at a greater distance from thee by my sin and wickedness, and humbly acknowledge the corruption of my nature and the many rebellions of my life. I have sinned against heaven and before thee, in thought, word & deed; I have contemned thy majesty and holy laws. I have likewise sinned by omitting what I ought to done, and committing what i ought not. I have rebelled against light, despised thy mercies and judgments, and broken my vows and promises; I have neglected teh means of Grace, and opportunities of becoming better; my iniquities are multiplies, and my sins are very great. I confess them, O Lord, with shame and sorrow, detestation and loathing, and desire to be vile in my own eyes, as I have rendered myself vile in thine. I humbly bessech thee to be merciful to me in the free pardon of my sins, for the sake of thy dear Son, my only saviour, J. C., who came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance; be pleased to renew my nature and write thy laws upon my heart, and help me to live, righteously, soberly, and godly in this evil worlds; make me humble, meek, patient and contented, and work in me the grace of thy holy spirit. prepare me for death and judgment, and let the thoughts thereof awaken me to a greater care and study to approve myself unto thee in well doing. bless our rulers in church & state. Help all in affliction or adversity--give them patience and a sanctified use of their affliction, and in thy good time deliverance from them; forgive my enemies, take me unto thy protection this day, keep me in perfect peace, which I ask in the name & for the sake of Jesus. Amen.
(8) Wednesday Evening
Holy and eternal Lord God who art the King of heaven, and the watchman of Israel, that never slumberest or sleepest, what shall we render unto thee for all thy benefits; because thou hast inclined thine ears unto me, therefore will I call on thee as long as I live, from the rising of the sun to the going down of the same let thy name be praised. among the infinite riches of thy mercy towards me, I desire to render thanks & praise for thy merciful preservation of me this day, as well as all the days of my life; and for the many other blessings & mercies spiritual & temporal which thou hast bestowed on me, contrary to my deserving. All these thy mercies call on me to be thankful and my infirmities & wants call for a continuance of thy tender mercies; cleanse my soul, O Lord, I beseech thee, from whatever is offensive to thee, and hurtful to me, and give me what is convenient for me. watch over me this night, and give me comfortable and sweet sleep to fit me for the service of the day following. Let my soul watch for the coming of the Lord Jesus; let my bed put me in mind of my grave, and my rising from there of my last resurrection; O heavenly Father, so frame this heart of mine, that I may ever delight to live according to thy will and command, in holiness and righteousness before thee all the days of my life. Let me remember, O Lord, the time will come when the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall rise and stand before the judgment seat, and give an account of whatever they have done in the body, and let me so prepare my soul, that I may do it with joy and not with grief. bless the rulers and people of this and forget not those who are under any affliction or oppression. Let thy favor be extended to all my relations friends and all others who I ought to remember in my prayer and hear me I beseech thee for the sake of my dear redeemer in whose most holy words, I farther pray, Our Father, & c.
(9) Thursday Morning
Most gracious Lord God, whose dwelling is in the highest heavens, and yet beholdest the lowly and humble upon the earth, I blush and am ashamed to lift up my eyes to thy dwelling place, because I have sinned against thee; look down, I beseech thee upon me thy unworthy servant who prostrate myself at the footstool of thy mercy, confessing my own guiltiness, and begging pardon for my sins; what couldst thou have done Lord more for me, or what could I have done more against thee? Thou didst send me thy Son to take nature upon
No, he just prayed in the name of Jesus Christ for the heck of it.....
This statement "Seperation of church from atate" is made in a letter written by Thomas Jefferson, it does not exist any part of the Declaratikon of Independence or the Constitution itself, nor does it appear in any law or legislation. Because it appears in a letter, written by Thos. Jefferson with his intentions not to mention God because he did not want anyone to insinuate that any Religion would be made a religion supported by the state.
This letter is a letter, it is not a piece of legislation, it has not been officially made a law of the US. Therefore the so called Wall between the church and the state does not exist, infact the basic belief in GOD surely does exist within the Constitution.
What is no allowed is the government to support any particular practice, manner, or procedures of worshiping God. The Basic Christian beliefs and doctrines were accepted abd used as a guidline to establish the Basic Laws of the Federal Government. These Federal Laws are derived or taken from the LAWS OF GOD in the Bible.
It doesn't matter how Geo. Washington felt, or Adams felt or how anyone else felt about different subjects. What does matter is what has been written and agreed upon by these Founding Fathers and what they placed into the Constitution and made LAW.
For those of you who are trying to twist this into anything else your not going to, because first of all -- you can't. Second you will not twist these laws into anything else except what they mean because -- There are those of us who live in this land and will protect our unalienable rights from people like you, we will not allow you to do it.
"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ!" --
This quotation has not been found anywhere in Henry's recorded writings or speeches, as has been acknowledged by David Barton.
God Bless You!! Keep saying it, as the rst of us will, and never ever relent!
I've got to give Jefferson this one.
They made a perfect Constitution only to get screwed up by the courts. The Constitution only forbids the LEGISLATIVE branch from MAKING LAWS. If the Executive Branch wants to put a Nativity scene on the court house lawn it is perfectly Constitutional since it is not the Legislative Branch and it is not a Law. It is absurd that such a clearly written amendment is being applied to students and teachers to shut them up on their religious beliefs. Out court system has lost its mind.
Impeachment and charges of preventing the citizens of their right to free speech and religion. It's time to reverse the "LAWS" that the LIBERALS have managed to BASTARDIZE" to fit their bogus interpretations. They wanted to leave, why aren't they !!! They need to go to rehab!!! or Immigrate!
The Proof is within your own heart, soul and mind. If you believe that there is a god, then you need no proof. If you need proof, then you should seek out the lord, for he is within you, then you will be the proof.
the power of government is to punish. the founders wanted to ensure that no one would be punished by the government for religious reasons, or for holding the 'wrong' religious views.
however, in this backward day, those who want religion separated from government, actually all civil life, END UP PUNISHING CHRISTIANS BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HOLD THE CORRECT RELIGIOUS VIEWS (atheistic, materialistic, humanism).............liars all, who can not know the truth, because the god of this world has blinded them unless they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and be converted............i'm on a roll.....
bump for later
Very well written and well worth reading.
Welcome to FR. :-)
"Doubts about this book surfaced after the manuscript was examined in the early 20th century. The prayer book is not in Washington's handwriting, according to Worthington C. Ford, chief of the Manuscript Division of the Library of Congress (1902 -1909).
Rupert Hughes, who published three volumes on Washington, compared facsimiles of the prayer journal to known samples of Washington's handwriting from the same time the journal was composed. No match. Correspondent W.A. Croffutt traced some of the prayers to a much older prayer book, meaning that Washington was not the author of those prayers. "
Thank you. And well put. Yes, our Founders -- or at least the major players -- were Deists. The "God" they spoke of is not the Christian God. Had they wanted to establish a Christian nation, there were enough Christians running around that there would have been no lack of help in writing the Constitution. But they were also wise and gentle men. They realized that the government cannot be the sole source of morality, for then the people would turn to the government to solve every petty problem. (Much like today.) But it is evident that any metaphysical system can support any political system. What is important is just that there be a metaphysical system to take up the moral slack that the government cannot be allowed to have. To say that our government is Christian (or any religion) is wrong. Let men be Christian or Jew or any other religion. Let government remain neutral so that it intrudes the least on its people.
To make that case to a secularist, one need not cite the Bible. Citations to logic and the examples of history alone are both sufficient and more effective.
You stated, "If your intent is to reach those who need pursuading, there are better ways to make the obvious need for God given rights unescapable to even a hardened liberal. Unalienable rights, as endowed by a Creator, are so important because government has no legitimate authority or power to violate those rights if they are endowed by a higher authority. It is a concept so important that, if there wasn't a Creator, we'd be best off maintaining whatever pretense necessary that there was."
I believe your concern in this regard was a point made in the title post.
Also, regarding your concern that quoting the infallible, inerrant, inspired Word of Almighty God was not suitable for a "secularist", I must state that the Bible is solid Truth-- period. While this author referenced several sources, it is, in fact, profiable to prove your posistion based on the Sovereign Truth-- the word of Almighty God the Creator. Logic and history (which is His-Story, by the way) are but little aside from the truths found in Scripture.
Proverbes 16:6: "By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil." How do you direct men to depart from evil, but by showing them why and what certain actions are evil? And, how do you show them evil, but by showing them truth?
2 Timothy 3:16-17, states: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
Go ahead on with your obvious breast beating. My observation is that it's failing.
Whatever happened to "let your light so shine before men," or, "not every man that sayeth unto me, Lord, Lord"?
Logic and history (which is His-Story, by the way) are but little aside from the truths found in Scripture.
They are manifestations of truths found in Scripture.
How do you direct men to depart from evil, but by showing them why and what certain actions are evil? And, how do you show them evil, but by showing them truth?
So, stick with that until they're ready to learn the source of that Truth. It's a lousy political tactic to blow them over or turn them away with citations to the Bible before they're ready, just because you want to feel good about the righteousness of your faith.
"Werefore by their fruits ye shall know them."
So what you say is that it is a... belief...
It isn't and never was a fact...
Glad you agree with me!
Sorry, you say that Thomas Jefferson, Georges Washington, Benjamin Franklin and John Adams who weren't Christian and din't wan't the peomotion of "christian" values (whatever these are... And history says more lack of values) had an agenda you don't agree with....
Maybe another country would be better for you then...
In public, not inm private...
But he wasn't... As most educated people weren't then... They were deists, and some atheists...
The idea that they were Christians and wanted to impose Christianity is false and constitutes crass historical revisionism!
Sorry, the Bible isn't the inerrant word of God... You believe it is, but it isn't a fact at all, only your belief (flawed )
You've used selective quotes from just a few of the Founders. The only for certain Deist was probably Franklin--Jefferson, as your quote reveals was really Unitarian, and Payne was an Atheist.
Washington, like not a few regular church goers today, didn't use "Jesus" in his conversation or correspondence, but very frequently referred to Providence.
Also, all these men assumed common moral absolutes--and have various quotes that but for religion (by which they meant Christianity) the experiment of Democratic Republicanism wouldn't work.
Of the 100 or so Founders over 90% were best understood as conventional 18th Century Christians--you found the exceptions to the rule.
It's inaccurate to say the Founders were all devout Christians--however it is even more inaccurate to say they were mostly Diests or Unitarians.
1 George Washington Episcopalian
2 John Adams Unitarian
3 Thomas Jefferson raised Episcopalian later in life, belonged to no specific religion held many Christian, Deist and Unitarian beliefs
4 James Madison Episcopalian
5 James Monroe Episcopalian
6 John Quincy Adams Unitarian
7 Andrew Jackson Presbyterian
8 Martin Van Buren Dutch Reformed
9 William Henry Harrison Episcopalian
10 John Tyler Episcopalian/Deist
11 James Knox Polk Presbyterian/Methodist
12 Zachary Taylor Episcopalian
13 Millard Fillmore Unitarian
14 Franklin Pierce Episcopalian
15 James Buchanan Presbyterian
16 Abraham Lincoln raised Baptist; later no specific denomination
17 Andrew Johnson no specific denomination *
18 Ulysses S Grant Presbyterian/Methodist
19 Rutherford B. Hayes Methodist
20 James A. Garfield Disciples of Christ
21 Chester A. Arthur Episcopalian
22 Grover Cleveland Presbyterian
23 Benjamin Harrison Presbyterian
24 Grover Cleveland Presbyterian
25 William McKinley Methodist
26 Theodore Roosevelt Dutch Reformed; Episcopalian
27 William Howard Taft Unitarian
28 Woodrow Wilson Presbyterian
29 Warren G. Harding Baptist
30 Calvin Coolidge Congregationalist
31 Herbert Hoover Quaker
32 Franklin Delano Roosevelt Episcopalian
33 Harry S. Truman Baptist
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower Jehovah's WitnessPresbyterian
35 John F. Kennedy Catholic
36 Lyndon Baines Johnson Disciples of Christ
37 Richard M. Nixon Quaker
38 Gerald Ford Episcopalian
39 Jimmy Carter Baptist
40 Ronald Reagan Presbyterian
41 George H. W. Bush Episcopalian
42 William Jefferson Clinton Baptist
43 George W. Bush Methodist (former Episcopalian)
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