The Sleeping World Is Awakening to the Dangers of Islam

CHRONWATCH.COM ^ | NOVEMBER 27, 2004 | BARBARA STOCK

[GretchenM]

bttt

[Blind Eye Jones]

"'For example, in the Bible, Jesus talked about being a warrior...'
Care to quote an actual passage from the New Testament?"

The passage is:

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set man against father..." Matthew 10.34

This seem warrior like.

[Diplomat]

I follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, not Deuteronomy. You claimed, "Jesus talked about being a warrior," I missed that in my readings and only sought evidence or refutation of this claim.

[Blind Eye Jones]

Howdi nuconvert!

Nice to be here and read yours and everybody's views!!!

Great debate and I appreciate your thoughts, support and welcome to FR!

[Happy2BMe]

I think they can hear us now. Thanks for that!

[William Terrell]

Any bloody acts in the Bible occurred in the past and were spoken of as in the past. Service to God by way of our fellow man is taught in the past as it is now.

Islam records bloody acts in the past and teaches that they be replicated now and in the future. Their service to God is by repeating the past in disservice to their fellow man. This is the word of the Koran.

[Blind Eye Jones]

"Muhammad preached very nice ideas when his movement was weak. The latter part of his life was that of an assassin, murderer and warlord. The "nice" Muslims you meet are in denial about the part of Muhammad's life as a mass killer. They will tell you Muhammad only fought wars of self defense."

This reminds me of the duality between God of fear in the old testament and Jesus (God of love) in the new testament. Obviously, we play up the new testament over the old. The murdering of nations and all the blood letting and sacrificing was a fitting practice for the waring God of the old testament. Ironic, that if you compare the Christian & Jewish God with Mohammad, their qualities are inversed through time: Jesus ended up being good whereas Mohammad ended bad. But I'm sure that "nice" Christians don't want to get hung up on the early side of God's nature. Therefore, I think that with both Islam and Christianity it is all a question of what should be emphasized. Both religions have a dark past and if we can get beyond that... great!

[Blind Eye Jones]

I agree. For me it should come down to emphasizing the good in man. As one poster pointed out, Muhammad started out being somewhat decent. I think that is what should be emphasized over the bad qualities. And maybe it is that way for mainstream Muslims... I hope so.

[Blind Eye Jones]

Isn't the passage I posted some kind of evidence to the claim? Sorry if there is confusion.

[blinachka]

BRAVO!!! I could not have said it better myself...from your mouth (or typing fingers!) to God's ears and to all of mankind's as well.

There was a time I believed that perhaps Islam was truly a peaceful religion that some bad people were using and abusing, but then I started to research it. The more I read, the more I became aware that there is nothing peaceful about Islam. Are there Muslim's who are peace loving people? No doubt...but the tenets of the religion are nothing of the sort.

[montag813]

The French and the English are beginning to ask themselves, ''When did this happen? When did 6 million Muslims get here and what are they planning to do?''

Huh? From the sounds of Tony Blair and Chirac they seem to be saying "how quickly can we surrender to them"?

[FBD]

Those words of Jesus about a sword,(Matt 10;34) were a metaphor for the division that comes between Christian believers, and non-believers. Jesus never advocated violence, in either word or deed.

All religions should be judged by the words and deeds of their founders.

In the case of the founder of the Christian religion, Jesus never harmed anyone, and the documentation to his peaceful, kind and loving nature is abundantly supported throughout the New Testament. In fact, Peter cut off the ear of a soldier with a sword, when they came to get Jesus. Jesus rebuked Peter, and then healed the man's ear.

The documentation that Muhammad was extremely violent, is also well documented.
In the "Hadiths" ("deeds of the Prophet") - It is documented that Muhammad was a murdering pirate, who raped, pillaged, and yes...tortured and beheaded his enemies. In one descriptive account, one of his followers slit open the belly of a pregnant woman, because she was mocking the "prophet" Muhammad. Muhammad condoned this double murder, just as he condoned countless other acts of barbarism.


Of course, there are peaceful Muslims:
those that do not follow the teachings of Muhammad.
Yes, there are violent Christians as well; those that do not follow the teachings of Jesus.

Anyone who denies the realties of what has been going on in the Islamic religion since it's inception, by pointing out that there are some non-violent muslims, is merely engaging in multi-cultural schitzophrenia.

Regards

[Earthdweller]

So say I.

[dennisw]

This reminds me of the duality between God of fear in the old testament and Jesus (God of love) in the new testament. Obviously, we play up the new testament over the old. The murdering of nations and all the blood letting and sacrificing was a fitting practice for the waring God of the old testament. Ironic, that if you compare the Christian & Jewish God with Mohammad, their qualities are inversed through time: Jesus ended up being good whereas Mohammad ended bad. But I'm sure that "nice" Christians don't want to get hung up on the early side of God's nature. Therefore, I think that with both Islam and Christianity it is all a question of what should be emphasized. Both religions have a dark past and if we can get beyond that... great!

Your silly post cannot negate the fact that all Muslims are called upon to emulate, to copy, the exemplary life of Muhammad. No one is commanded to copy the life of King David, or Moses or anyone in the (Tanach) Old Testament. There are many important figures in the Old Testament. What should warn you off immediately is that Muhammad is the only figure of importance in the Koran. Because the Koran is one big ego trip of Muhammad with the Allah of his delusions there to provide divine sanction to Muhammad's crimes and bloodletting. 

Muslims are supposed to copy Muhammad's life, no ifs, ands or buts. Mohamed beheaded captives in order to terrorize and conquer. Thus today's Jihadists do the same.  Muhammad beheaded 700 males of a Jewish tribe and made their women into sex slaves. After the Battle of the Trench Mohammed expelled most of the Jewish tribes from the city of Medina and Mohammed had all six to eight hundred adult male members of the Qurayza tribe beheaded.  

The Koran is a mishmash that's not even in chronological order. It has no comparison to the New or Old Testament but go right ahead and knock yourself out. Same as many Muslims do. It's amusing to watch them also claim Allah is the same as the God of the Bible.

 

[Blind Eye Jones]

"Jesus never advocated violence, in either word or deed."

What about driving the money lenders from the temple... that was a deed.

"All religions should be judged by the words and deeds of their founders."

The words and deeds of the founders of both religions have been bloody. If Jesus is the same God of the old testament this surely is the case. And Christians don't merely stop at the loving and forgiving God of the new testament but often refered to characters or events in the old testament to justify their wars amongst themselves, eg., escaping the land of the Pharaohs or crushing the Canaanites, etc. As I said before, even the devil can use scripture for his own purposes.

It all depends on what part of holy texts you want to emphasize.

[dennisw]

Of course, there are peaceful Muslims:
those that do not follow the teachings of Muhammad.
Yes, there are violent Christians as well; those that do not follow the teachings of Jesus.

The Koran cannot be all evil. Muhammad taught peace and tolerance in his younger years in Mecca where he failed to attract more than 100 followers in 13 years of preaching.  But the later murderous Jihadist teachings came when Mohammed based himself in Medina and take scriptural precedence over the Meccan teachings which appear as the Meccan verses in the Koran

FrontPage magazine.com :: Still Standing for Islam - and Against ...
... Meccans and their allies. Thus the "Meccan verses" of tolerance tell us
about the ideal Islamic mission. "Medinan verses" of war ...
www.frontpagemag.com/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=15416 - 68k - Cached - Similar pages

[dennisw]

As I said before, even the devil can use scripture for his own purposes........


You are. LOL!

[dennisw]

And Christians don't merely stop at the loving and forgiving God of the new testament but often refered to characters or events in the old testament to...

Once more for those in the cheap seats. No one is commanded to slavishly emulate any figure in the Old or New Testament. The Koran commands Muslims to slavishly copy the life of Muhammad. And what a life it was. A life of bloodletting and cruel conquest. Many Arabians would not have joined Mohamed's army if not for the plunder, booty and female sex slaves. Muhammad got 20% of all booty. 

Mohamed hit the big time as a brigand, a raider of caravans. His Jihad wars to spread Islam were just a continuation of this

[Blind Eye Jones]

Aren't Christians suppose to emulate Christ who is still the very same God of the old testament with a violent history? Unless God has reformed, went to anger management and had a change of heart, this contradiction should be apparent. But all too often when Christians want to wage wars they will see themselves in terms of the old testament. That hoary God becomes very appealing and Biblical imagery will lend itself to the ultimate desire of conquering the enemy. In these cases Christians do emulate, copy and maybe even try to out do the moral and destructive force of this old God. Don't kid yourself in thinking that Christians will only emulate his loving afterthought (Jesus) made manifest as man. Jesus was great but in times of war he is not the poster child that will rally the troops. Of coarse this is all silly and what discussion of religion doesn't eventually become a tad absurd. Still, people will imitate whatever they want to get their own way and my point was simply... they have a choice.

[dennisw]

Please understand:
There is no command in the Bible to emulate the life of Jesus Christ.
But the Koran commands all believers to emulate the life of Muhammad

You are fruitlessly comparing apples to oranges. You are doing the same as many liberals do, looking at Islam through liberal Christian glasses.