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To: TERMINATTOR

It's a funny cartoon, but let me ask you to evaluate a scenario. Let's say everyone was allowed to bring firearms on the plane. Two terrorists also bring ther guns on the plane, with the intent of crashing the plane. Terrorists brandish weapons, citizens respond, gunfight ensues. What do you think the odds are of that plane continuing to fly?


11 posted on 11/29/2004 2:06:56 PM PST by Shryke
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To: Shryke
What do you think the odds are of that plane continuing to fly?

Depends ... is it a Boeing, or an Airbus?

14 posted on 11/29/2004 2:13:06 PM PST by ArrogantBustard
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To: Shryke
What do you think the odds are of that plane continuing to fly?"

At altitude? Not much. The first round to penetrate the fuselage would probably cause an explosive decompression that would not only suck people out the hole, it could cause enough damage to bring about catastrophic failure of the fuselage.

Guns on an airplane are a very bad idea, regardless of who is holding them.
15 posted on 11/29/2004 2:13:13 PM PST by stm
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To: Shryke

Airplanes have myriad redundant systems, and the chances of a bullet hitting a critical point are slim.

The systems that maintain cabin pressure are run from bleed air from the jet engines, and typically operate at a small percentage of their capacity. A few holes in the fuselage would just cause an air valve to open slightly wider.

Also, it would be sensible for an armed-passenger airline to request that their passengers carry only frangible rounds, incapable of penetrating the fuselage, and offer an assortment of such ammunition at wildly inflated prices (like the little bottles of liquor) for those who forgot to bring it.


16 posted on 11/29/2004 2:14:42 PM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: Shryke
Terrorists brandish weapons, citizens respond, gunfight ensues.

Terrorists know who bad guys are; citizenry doesn't, causing multiple blue-on-blue engagements.

17 posted on 11/29/2004 2:14:45 PM PST by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!)
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To: Shryke; stm
What do you think the odds are of that plane continuing to fly?

Very good actually. Learn something about aircraft then come back and continue discourse on this subject. Explosive decompression? Not unless you were carrying a Howitzer. No pistol caliber bullet would do enough collective damage to the fuselage. Airlines mandating frangible or bi-metal "aircraft safe" slugs would even get rid of the possibility of wrecking the avionics of hyd lines.

No. Punching a round, even a tracer round, through a gas tank is not enough to cause an explosion. Just a leak. Try shooting a gas can full of fuel sometime and you'll see what I mean.

I'd rather get shot in a gun fight with terrorists than sit there f*cking helpless while the plane gets crashed into a juicy target or lawn darted.

21 posted on 11/29/2004 2:19:57 PM PST by Dead Corpse (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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To: Shryke

99.99%. What are your chances of surviving if your plane crashes into something like the world trade center? A few small holes (.45 or less) wouldn't even effect presurization. One flight had the whole top of the plane missing and landed safely. Only a stewardess was sucked out. All the passengers were fine.


27 posted on 11/29/2004 2:31:15 PM PST by TERMINATTOR ("I believe in background checks at gun shows or anywhere" - GWB)
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To: Shryke

Did you ever hear about the Aloha Airlines Flight(727, I think) that continued to fly when about a third of the top of the fuselage tore off? A couple of people including one flight attendant fell out, but the plane managed to land safely


32 posted on 11/29/2004 2:35:31 PM PST by gc4nra ( this tag line protected by Kimber and the First Amendment (I voted for McClintock))
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To: Shryke
What do you think the odds are of that plane continuing to fly?

Compared to what actually happened? Pretty good.

It never ceases to amaze me how people repeatedly choose the terrorist who will kill them over the well intentioned neighbor who has a remote chance of killing them.

39 posted on 11/29/2004 2:42:28 PM PST by hopespringseternal
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To: Shryke
What do you think the odds are of that plane continuing to fly?

Pretty good if they use frangible ammo.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/frangible.htm

Frangible Ammunition

Frangible, or “soft,” rounds are designed to break apart when they hit walls or other hard surfaces to prevent ricochets during close-quarters combat. Frangible ammunition represents the first viable revolutionary change to firearms science in the past 100 years.

Frangible ammunition is a relatively recent development in bullets, presenting a departure from the standard projectiles in use for both range shooting and personal protection.

With the advent of modern hostage rescue tactics in the 1970s and 1980s, the military and police agencies began to look for ways to minimize overpenetration risks. One widely-accepted solution was the frangible round, also known as the AET (Advanced Energy Transfer) round.

Frangible rounds are available in a wide array of pistol calibers, but due to the inherently high velocities of rifle rounds, frangible ammunition is much less effective in rifles.

It is only produced in 5.56mm NATO and 7.62mm NATO, and its performance in actual combat is dubious. There are two frangible rounds that have been approved for training purposes only.

One is a 9mm, and the other a 5.56. Approval for operational use will depend on the special mission requirements (the military necessity) for the round.

Frangible bullets are not made from a lead projectile covered with a copper jacket, but are composites of hybrid materials either pressed together at high pressure or glued together with adhesives.

Frangible bullets are designed to break up into smaller pieces upon contact with harder objects or surfaces. The polymer-compound round produces no splashback and vastly decreased ricochets.

52 posted on 11/29/2004 2:53:45 PM PST by Walkin Man
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To: Shryke

Pretty substantial. A couple of bullet holes in the fuselage are unlikely to take a modern airliner out of the sky.


88 posted on 11/29/2004 3:29:42 PM PST by FreedomPoster (hoplophobia is a mental aberration rather than a mere attitude)
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To: Shryke
Let's say everyone was allowed to bring firearms on the plane. Two terrorists also bring ther guns on the plane, with the intent of crashing the plane. Terrorists brandish weapons, citizens respond, gunfight ensues. What do you think the odds are of that plane continuing to fly?

Extremely high.
Look back at the news stories about the first transports flying into Baghdad during thte war.
Bringing down a modern transport aircraft with smallarms is very very difficult.

SO9

100 posted on 11/29/2004 3:44:58 PM PST by Servant of the 9 (Trust Me)
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