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The Last Crusade Of The Templars
Times Of London ^ | 11-29-2004 | Ruth Gledhill

Posted on 11/29/2004 2:57:11 PM PST by blam

The last crusade of the Templars

By Ruth Gledhill

The knights want a Papal apology nearly 700 years after they were disbanded and hounded into exile

THE VATICAN is giving “serious consideration” to apologising for the persecution that led to the suppression of the Knights Templar.

The suppression, which began on Friday , October 13, 1307, gave Friday the Thirteenth its superstitious legacy.

A Templar Order in Britain that claims to be descended from the original Knights Templar has asked that the Pope should make the apology.

The Templars, based in Hertford, are hoping for an apology by 2007, the 700th anniversary of the start of the persecution, which culminated with the torture and burning at the stake of the Grand Master Jacques de Molay for heresy and the dissolution of the Order by apostolic decree in 1312.

The letter, signed by the Secretary of the Council of Chaplains on behalf of the Grand Master of the Poor Fellow Soldiers of Jesus Christ and the Temple of Solomon Grand Preceptory, with a PO box address in Hertford, formally requests an apology “for the torture and murder of our leadership”, instigated by Pope Clement V.

“We shall witness the 700th anniversary of the persecution of our order on 13th October 2007,” the letter says. “It would be just and fitting for the Vatican to acknowledge our grievance in advance of this day of mourning.”

Apologies have already been made by the Roman Catholic Church for the persecution of Galileo and for the Crusades. The Templars hope that these precedents will make their suit more likely to succeed.

Hertford Templar Tim Acheson, who is descended from the Scottish Acheson family that has established Templar links and whose family lived until recently in Bailey Hall, Hertford, said: “This letter is a serious attempt by a Templar group which traces its roots back to the medieval Order to solicit an apology from the Papacy.”

He added: “The Papacy and the Kingdom of France conspired to destroy the Order for reasons which modern historians judge to be primarily political. Their methods and motives are now universally regarded as brutal, unfair and unjustified.

“The Knights Templar officially ceased to exist in the early 1300s, but the order continued underground. It was a huge organisation and the vast majority of Templars survived the persecution, including most of their leaders, along with much of their treasure and, most importantly, their original values and traditions.”

The Hertford Mercury newspaper has reported newly discovered Templar links with Hertford, including a warren of tunnels beneath the town. At the heart of the maze of tunnels is Hertford Castle, where in 1309 four Templars from Temple Dinsley near Hitchin were imprisoned after their arrest by Edward II, who believed that they were holding a lost treasure. The treasure was never found.

When Subterranea Britannica, a group of amateur archaeologists, expressed an interest in investigating Hertford’s tunnels last month, they received anonymous threats telling them not to.

The Templars captured Jerusalem during the Crusades and were known as “keepers of the Holy Grail”, said to be the cup used at the Last Supper or as the receptacle used by Joseph of Arimathea to catch Christ’s blood as he bled on the Cross, or both.

Interest in the Templars and the Holy Grail is at an unprecedented high after the success of books such as The Da Vinci Code, by Dan Brown, and the earlier Holy Blood Holy Grail, by Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh and Henry Lincoln, which claimed that Jesus survived the crucifixion and settled in France.

The Knights Templar were founded by Hugh de Payens, a French knight from the Champagne area of Burgundy, and eight companions in 1118 during the reign of Baldwin II of Jerusalem, when they took a perpetual vow to defend the Christian kingdom. They were assigned quarters next to the Temple. In 1128, they took up the white habit of the Cistercians, adding a red cross. The order knights, sergeants, farmers and chaplains amassed enormous wealth.

In Rome, a Vatican spokesman said that the demand for an apology would be given “serious consideration”. However, Vatican insiders said that the Pope, 84, was under pressure from conservative cardinals to “stop saying sorry” for the errors of the past, after a series of papal apologies for the Crusades, the Inquisition, Christian anti-Semitism and the persecution of scientists and “heretics” such as Galileo.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: conspiracy; crusade; demolay; freemasonry; freemasons; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; insiders; knightstemplar; last; masons; templars
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1 posted on 11/29/2004 2:57:12 PM PST by blam
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To: SunkenCiv

GGG Ping.


2 posted on 11/29/2004 2:57:41 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
The Never Ending Search (For the Holy Grail)


3 posted on 11/29/2004 3:01:06 PM PST by blam
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To: blam

ping


4 posted on 11/29/2004 3:01:29 PM PST by investigateworld (( . ))
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To: blam
The Never Ending Search (For the Holy Grail)


5 posted on 11/29/2004 3:01:32 PM PST by blam
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To: blam

Puhleeze. The Templars were initially a very good, completely orthodox order. Some of them - not all, by any means - seem to have started dabbling in things ranging from the occult to homosexuality. It's unfortunate that the whole order had to be suppressed, but many orders have been suppressed in the life of the Church, some for heterodoxy and some simply because they had outlived their usefulness. With the Templars, it was a bit of both.

In any case, the Templars gave rise to a whole Masonic wing and to lots of New Age books, so why should their self-proclaimed heirs complain? Nowadays, the Templars are more popular than orthodox Catholicism.


6 posted on 11/29/2004 3:04:15 PM PST by livius
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To: Darth Reagan

ping


7 posted on 11/29/2004 3:04:17 PM PST by marblehead17 (I love it when a plan comes together.)
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To: blam; humblegunner; SeaDragon

Templar ping


8 posted on 11/29/2004 3:05:37 PM PST by RikaStrom
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To: NYer; Aquinasfan; Land of the Irish; narses; thor76; maryz; Salvation; saradippity; ELS; dsc; ...

Church article ping.


9 posted on 11/29/2004 3:05:44 PM PST by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: blam

The article, however, does not say they are asking for an apology for the disbanding of the order due to heresy, but “for the torture and murder of our leadership” . . .

In any case: Praise is due to the early Crusader Templars. PC or not. ;)


10 posted on 11/29/2004 3:07:22 PM PST by AMDG&BVMH
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To: livius
I think most Templar descendants would argue that the church spread rumors about their participation in the occult or homosexuality to justify their cruel treatment.
11 posted on 11/29/2004 3:07:50 PM PST by Galena Nevada
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To: livius

"Templars are more popular than orthodox Catholicism"

agree with everything but the above from your comment.

There is a Romance assoc. with the Templars, because of the Grail and Arthurian legends. But I see no sign that they are about to overcome the Holy Roman Catholic Church. ;)


12 posted on 11/29/2004 3:09:27 PM PST by AMDG&BVMH
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To: livius
Since neither Pope John Paul II, a native of Poland, nor any of the living Catholic heirs of the Bourbon or Capetian dynasties had anything to do with the trials and executions in the 14th-century, asking them to offer an "apology" is a little absurd. It would be like asking Prince Charles, Queen Elizabeth, or Tony Blair to "apologize" for the outrages and terrorism of Henry VIII and Oliver Cromwell.

Interesting article though...

13 posted on 11/29/2004 3:10:42 PM PST by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: blam

"settled in France"....Dang....


14 posted on 11/29/2004 3:11:13 PM PST by bigbob (2)
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To: Galena Nevada

"I think most Templar descendants would argue that the church spread rumors about their participation in the occult or homosexuality"

well, they can argue that . . .

but when there is truth to the charge, it is not merely "rumor."


15 posted on 11/29/2004 3:11:55 PM PST by AMDG&BVMH
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To: blam

700 YEARS! Get over it, already...and get a real life - preferably not one that requires KKK costumes.


16 posted on 11/29/2004 3:13:00 PM PST by torqemada ("Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!")
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To: livius

Double Puhleeze. The Templar founders were adventurers and opportunists. The Church and Crusades were where the action was. They were "suppressed", as you put, it because the Pope and certain European royalty were afraid of the financial empire the Templars were creating.


17 posted on 11/29/2004 3:13:18 PM PST by MagnumRancid
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To: blam
A Templar Order in Britain that claims to be descended from the original Knights Templar has asked that the Pope should make the apology.

LOL!

There are no Templars.

These whack-jobs are just playing dress-up.

18 posted on 11/29/2004 3:13:28 PM PST by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity

" It would be like asking Prince Charles, Queen Elizabeth, or Tony Blair to "apologize" for the outrages and terrorism of Henry VIII and Oliver Cromwell. "

EXCELLENT idea! Or if not apologize, at least allow the appropriate tarnishing of their images in history lessons . . . ;)


19 posted on 11/29/2004 3:13:35 PM PST by AMDG&BVMH
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To: blam

"...The Knights Templar were founded by Hugh de Payens, a French knight from the Champagne area of Burgundy ..."


This is hugh! The Knights were getting stuned on champagne and burgundy...


20 posted on 11/29/2004 3:13:45 PM PST by Albion Wilde ("Sentimentality is loving people more than God would." --Oscar Wilde)
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To: Galena Nevada
I think most Templar descendants would argue that the church spread rumors about their participation in the occult or homosexuality to justify their cruel treatment.

Since the Templars died out in the 14th Century and left no descendants, I think you're wrong.

21 posted on 11/29/2004 3:15:52 PM PST by Bohemund
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To: Galena Nevada

There are no "Templar descendants".


22 posted on 11/29/2004 3:16:52 PM PST by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: blam

Since the Papacy in 1307 was pretty much owned lock, stock, and barrel by King Phillip of France, and the suppression of the Templars was his idea, shouldn't they be asking the French government for an apology?


23 posted on 11/29/2004 3:18:23 PM PST by Campion
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To: Campion

Yep, that was my initial reaction.

The actor behind the whole thing was the King of France, not the Papacy.


24 posted on 11/29/2004 3:20:03 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: AMDG&BVMH
They also might want to petition some of the brethren in their lodges to apologize for the French Revolution as well.

I am always amused by the suggestion that while the Templars were TOTALLY innocent and persecuted for merely political reasons that, Oh, yes, "We admire them for being great esoteric masters of the occult and arcane heresies." That really makes a lot of sense. Must be that Duh Vinci code again... You have to drink the right wine out of the right skull at 13 minutes after midnight during a full moon to understand the hidden meaning. [irony]


25 posted on 11/29/2004 3:21:20 PM PST by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: AMDG&BVMH; livius
The article, however, does not say they are asking for an apology for the disbanding of the order due to heresy, but “for the torture and murder of our leadership” . . .

The Catholic Church and the Vatican were not responsible for that. The torture and executions of leading Templars were the work of Philip IV, king of France, acting on his own. He had a very uneasy relationship with the Catholic Church.

The Vatican later disbanded the order, and issued some statements which diminished their reputation. But followed in the wake of the French govt actions, and did not involve prison and torture.

26 posted on 11/29/2004 3:21:20 PM PST by BlackVeil
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To: wideawake
<<
There are no "Templar descendants".
>>
I would think that would be a matter of debate or perspective. True enough, the "order" was destroyed, but I think it is reasonable to assume living descendants of individuals who were members of the order exist. The clowns playing dress up are another story.
27 posted on 11/29/2004 3:22:25 PM PST by MagnumRancid
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To: livius
"Nowadays, the Templars are more popular than orthodox Catholicism."

Must be why you see so many Temples of the Knights Templar all around these days.
</sarcasm>

28 posted on 11/29/2004 3:22:46 PM PST by Redbob
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To: blam

BTTT


29 posted on 11/29/2004 3:23:49 PM PST by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity

"to apologize for the French Revolution as well".

YES!

AND I would also like France to apologize for Napoleon messing up the calendar from 1798 - to 18something.

Well, there are the Knights of Malta. They stayed true, didn't they?


30 posted on 11/29/2004 3:24:21 PM PST by AMDG&BVMH
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To: blam

"Holy Blood, Holy Grail" did not claim that Jesus survived the cross. It suggested that Mary Magdeline, pregnant with Jesus' child, emmigrated to southeastern France and settled there. The rise of the Cathars in that region lend some support to that notion, but, by no means, confirm it.


31 posted on 11/29/2004 3:25:16 PM PST by Continental Soldier
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To: MagnumRancid
I think it is reasonable to assume living descendants of individuals who were members of the order exist.

Since it was an order of celibate monks, any descendants - being bastards begotten through fornication and violation of solemn vows - would be living proof of the charges against their ancestors.

32 posted on 11/29/2004 3:25:22 PM PST by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: Galena Nevada

That's my understanding too - that the French King had trumped up charges regarding the occult and homosexuality brought against the Knights Tempalr in order to destroy them and their reputation.


33 posted on 11/29/2004 3:25:50 PM PST by SolutionsOnly
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To: blam

While most of the Templars were killed, some escaped to Switzerland where traces of their philosophy can be found today.

There are no Templars alive today so no apology is necessary.


34 posted on 11/29/2004 3:26:11 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Continental Soldier
The rise of the Cathars in that region lend some support to that notion

How would the rise of the Cathari lend support to that crazy notion? Almost every possible negative description of Catharist doctrine was given by their critics - how could they have omitted such a glaringly heretical claim?

35 posted on 11/29/2004 3:26:54 PM PST by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: BlackVeil

Good point. They are asking the Vatican to apologize for what they did NOT do (torture etc) and NOT for what they did do, which was disband the order for heresy . . .

The Jesuits were also disbanded once. THEY were later reinstated. (Tho might be time for another look?) ;)

So the Templars COULD have petitioned for reinstatement later, PROVIDED that their actions and beliefs were compatible with the Church . . . which they were not . . .


36 posted on 11/29/2004 3:27:56 PM PST by AMDG&BVMH
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To: Campion
Since the Papacy in 1307 was pretty much owned lock, stock, and barrel by King Phillip of France, and the suppression of the Templars was his idea, shouldn't they be asking the French government for an apology?

LOL! What are you, some kind of trouble maker?? (grin)

37 posted on 11/29/2004 3:30:29 PM PST by yankeedame ("Born with the gift of laughter & a sense that the world was mad.")
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To: MagnumRancid

I read a book awhile back that claimed the pirates of the carribean were actually remnants of the templar fleet(manned by former knights)...and that columbus sailed to the new world escorted by former templar ships...and that the scottish rite was founded by templars in exile.

It was an interesting book, but i'm not sure I beleive it.


38 posted on 11/29/2004 3:32:18 PM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: wideawake
There are no Templars.

Exactly what Scotland Yard thought.

Luckily, an anonymous tipster warned them in time to save Castle Aaagh.


39 posted on 11/29/2004 3:32:55 PM PST by skeeter
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To: AMDG&BVMH

They might want to put in a request to Scotland for an apology for the rapes of Saxon and Welsh women by Picts as well.


40 posted on 11/29/2004 3:33:04 PM PST by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: blam

bump


41 posted on 11/29/2004 3:33:55 PM PST by VOA
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To: BlackVeil
The Catholic Church and the Vatican were not responsible for that.

Roger that. It would have been a little difficult for "the Vatican" to have had anything to do with this considering that it didn't exist in the 14th-century and the papacy had been removed to France in one of the manifestations of Gallicanism.

42 posted on 11/29/2004 3:35:29 PM PST by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: AMDG&BVMH

The "Church" has perpetuated more atrocities on mankind than anything other than, maybe Communism.

They used to just exterminate their opposition.

And yes, they did lie about the Templars....while they were exterminating them.


43 posted on 11/29/2004 3:36:51 PM PST by TheLion
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity; Campion

"by Picts "

Now you are really making me search the history storage areas of my brain! But that is a good thing . . . I do remember Picts . . . not much else . . .

Fortunately, my daughter is getting a VERY good education in history and western civ at an academy named for another poster . . .


44 posted on 11/29/2004 3:36:58 PM PST by AMDG&BVMH
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To: AMDG&BVMH

The changing of the calendar was done by the revolutionists, not by Napoleon. I believe he changed it back.


45 posted on 11/29/2004 3:37:26 PM PST by Restorer (Europe is heavily armed, but only with envy.)
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To: mamelukesabre

"scottish rite was founded by templars "

have heard that

have not heard about a connection w. Columbus; he was a believer of Catholocism, but whether or not he had escort ships (Templar or otherwise), I have not heard.


46 posted on 11/29/2004 3:39:23 PM PST by AMDG&BVMH
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To: TheLion
The "Church" has perpetuated more atrocities on mankind than anything other than, maybe Communism.

Not even close, pal. Not even close.

47 posted on 11/29/2004 3:39:34 PM PST by Campion
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To: Restorer; AMDG&BVMH

If Napoleon changed the calendar back, then he (or his heirs and sucessors) should be made to apologise for THAT. Lets keep the apologies flowing.


48 posted on 11/29/2004 3:40:51 PM PST by BlackVeil
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity

Speaking of the DaVinci Code I'll toss in a plug for "Foucault's Pendulum" by Umberto Eco.

If you really want to know a lot about the Templars and all of the famous esoteric groups of history, what is claimed about them, from a unique and skeptical perspective (don't want to give away too much of the plot) it's a great novel.

Problem is the first 50 pages or so are mind-numbingly boring. Then it gets good. It's the DaVinci Code for non-morons.


49 posted on 11/29/2004 3:41:15 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: blam

National Treasure was the first I'd heard of the Knights of the Templar. Why were they disbanded officially?


50 posted on 11/29/2004 3:41:21 PM PST by Cinnamon Girl (OMGIIHIHOIIC ping list)
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