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To: greatful student
Althogh I am a Catholic I have never accepted the Church's embrace of Saints. I am devoutly monotheistic.

I do not doubt that God has often chosen to act through special people and that these people are somewhat blessed. I do not accept that they continue to act from Heaven with the powers of God.

The practice of revering and worshiping "Saints" is a continuation of Roman culture in which there were literally hundreds of minor dieties, household gods and gods of special causes.

10 posted on 11/30/2004 9:23:52 AM PST by Natural Law
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To: Natural Law

well, strictly speaking, the saint is supposed to intercede (pray) with God on your behalf, and the actions are God's.

But it is true that many people pray directly to the saints instead of asking for intercession, and some things to my mind are downright pagan superstitions, like burying a statue of Saint Joseph head down in your yard to sell your house.

But I have asked saints to pray for me, for spiritual matters, in the same way you would ask a friend on earth to pray for you.


13 posted on 11/30/2004 9:30:42 AM PST by heartwood
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To: Natural Law

All power comes from God. But He sometimes chooses to work through men. He demonstrably does so in this world, and there's no reason why He might not choose to do so in the next.


14 posted on 11/30/2004 9:30:54 AM PST by Cicero (Nil illegitemus carborundum est)
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To: Natural Law
I do not accept that they continue to act from Heaven with the powers of God.

Do you think they love you less in heaven, in the very embrace of God who, Scripture says, is love, than they did on earth? Sounds unlikely to me.

You may call yourself a Catholic, but you're not really happy with the full richness of the Catholic faith.

16 posted on 11/30/2004 9:31:29 AM PST by Campion
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To: Natural Law

"...Althogh I am a Catholic I have never accepted the Church's embrace of Saints. I am devoutly monotheistic...."

Good for you. Who cares?


17 posted on 11/30/2004 9:32:43 AM PST by irish_links
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To: Natural Law
Although I am a Catholic I have never accepted the Church's embrace of Saints. I am devoutly monotheistic. I do not doubt that God has often chosen to act through special people and that these people are somewhat blessed. I do not accept that they continue to act from Heaven with the powers of God.

Although Catholic, I do not think you understand the Cathoic teaching on the subject. The Catholic church is monotheistic. The Catholic Church does not worship Saints or even believe that the Saints are themselves acting from heaven.

A novena (from the Latin for nine each) is a devotion in which nine days are set apart for prayer to God, Our Lady, or a particular Saint for a certain intention (a person or object for which prayer or Mass is offered). The first novena was the nine-day period from the Ascension of Our Lord till the Descent of the Holy Spirit, during which time the Apostles waited in Jerusalem for the "promise of [the] Father" (Lk 24:49). A novena concentrates our attention, increases our zeal, and strengthens our faith, that God will grant our petitions according to His will.

Catholics pray to Saints not as if they were praying to God, but to ask the Saints to add their powerful prayers to our own. It's not much different from asking friends to pray for you, except these friends are in heaven, see God, and are very close to Him.

Catholics have a Saint associated with categories into which most intentions fit (for lost things, recovery from illness, childbirth, students, policemen, etc.) because these particular Saints had something in their own lives that may make them sympathetic to our request. Over a period of time, when numerous people seem to benefit from asking a certain Saint for the same thing, that helps to solidify the association of the Saint with that particular intention.

Catholics believe that we are obliged to pray for each other, not only in this world, but in the next. Christians on reaching heaven don't forget the needs of those they have left behind. Otherwise, they would be less charitable in heaven than they were on earth. They know our needs and our prayers, because God reveals to them what they need to know to do us good. Praying to a Saint is not the same thing as praying to God. It is not worship, but asking someone close to God to intercede for us.

As to the foundation of the Catholic belief, the Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us. Thus in Psalm 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20-21). And in Psalm 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" (Ps. 148:1-2)

Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In Revelation, John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.

Angels do the same thing: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).

Jesus himself warned us not to mess with small children because their guardian angels have guaranteed intercessory access to the Father: "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven." (Matt. 18:10).

Because he is the only God-man, Jesus is the only Mediator between man and God (1 Tim. 2:5), but this in no way means we cannot or should not ask our fellow Christians to pray with us and for us (1 Tim. 2:1-4), including those Christians in heaven, who have already had their sanctification completed, for "[t]he prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects" (Jas. 5:16).

29 posted on 11/30/2004 10:05:50 AM PST by Armando Guerra
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To: Natural Law
I have prayed to the Virgin De Guadalupe several times and she has helped me more than I deserve...
33 posted on 11/30/2004 10:42:47 AM PST by todd1
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To: Natural Law
The practice of revering and worshiping "Saints" is a continuation of Roman culture in which there were literally hundreds of minor dieties, household gods and gods of special causes.

The following is an excerpt from the Catholic Answers Web Site, and explains there is a biblical basis for the belief in, and value of, the prayers of the Saints in heaven.

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In Heaven and On Earth

The Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us. Thus in Psalms 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20-21). And in Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" (Ps. 148:1-2).

Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, we read: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).

And those in heaven who offer to God our prayers aren’t just angels, but humans as well. John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). The simple fact is, as this passage shows: The saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.

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39 posted on 11/30/2004 12:00:16 PM PST by power2 (JMJ)
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To: Natural Law

Then why are you Catholic? I don't ask to be confrontational, but it doesn't seem logical to belong to a religion and not embrace it entirely. Do you recite the Creed?


67 posted on 12/02/2004 11:43:55 AM PST by diamond6 (Everyone who is for abortion has already been born. Ronald Reagan)
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To: Natural Law

EXACTLY!

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70 posted on 12/02/2004 11:59:53 AM PST by viaveritasvita (Contend for the Truth of God against false teachings. Jude 1:3)
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To: Natural Law
Althogh I am a Catholic I have never accepted the Church's embrace of Saints. I am devoutly monotheistic.

I do not doubt that God has often chosen to act through special people and that these people are somewhat blessed. I do not accept that they continue to act from Heaven with the powers of God.

Do you ask your fellow parishoners to pray for you?

113 posted on 12/03/2004 8:40:31 AM PST by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!)
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