Tutu turns scorn on Mbeki in row shaking black South Africa

Scotsman.com ^ | November 30, 2004 | FRED BRIDGLAND FRED BRIDGLAND

[Selous]

Well, you know, you try your best but sometimes.........

(Chuckle)

[Cronos]

Quite correct cyborg -- Forget about what is there now -- the point is that Apartheid was wrong. IT was evil. Do you guys agree with that?

I don't think anyone is denying that Mugabe is a jerk, a racist and a guy who's running his country into the ground and probably Mbeki is too (don't know enough), but that does NOT make the Apartheid govt ok. Would you say that E. Germany was a hell hole under communism, so was NAziism ok? sheesh.

[Cronos]

I remember when South Africa and Rhodesia were thriving and civilized.

Strange, I don't remember S.A. being civilised. I do remember S.A. having second class citizens.

[Ironfocus]

Agreed, apartheid had to go, it was no good for South Africa.

[rabidralph]

He's already due for one, after breaking that Heisman Trophy.

[cyborg]

You are forgiven. Two pints of draught for your penance!

[cyborg]

The exit from the system was poorly executed. Too many outside cook spoons in the soup IMHO.

[cyborg]

My ex left South Africa before apartheid ended because he could not get a job after he graduated. Things were going down in hill in South Africa way before apartheid ended all because of certain aspects of the government's policies. Of course they didn't want apartheid to end because they were the chief beneficies of the goodies. Having black South Africans learn afrikaans instead of english despite the fact that english was becoming the world's language was one. In fact, I would advise EVERYONE to read Mark Mathabane to get a poor black person's perspective on apartheid era South Africa.

[Lancey Howard]

I do remember S.A. having second class citizens.

And now the place is strictly third world (except for a handful of political elite).

[Cronos]

And now the place is strictly third world (except for a handful of political elite).

it was ALWAYS a third world country, only then, the majority of it's population (the blacks) had no chance of improving their lot

[nwrep]

And you consider the treatment of blacks in Apartheid S.A. to NOT be evil? Sheesh. I'm not defendign what they're doing now -- but I AM attacking the notion that Apartheid was ok

No one said Apartheid was great, but that some people in South Africa today may look back on it with a different attitude. Sure, you had discrimination and a second class citizenry, but atleast the life spans were longer and they weren't being killed off by criminals or AIDS.