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I need some facts concerning poverty and the Bush tax cut

Posted on 12/01/2004 6:04:00 PM PST by OklaRancher

I belong to a Methodist Church in a rural area with a small congretion of 30 or so. This past Sunday the Pastor started his sermon by saying how much good the Bush tax cut could have done if it had been used to alleviate poverty.


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KEYWORDS: bushtaxcut; bushtaxcuts; poverty; zot
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I belong to a Methodist Church in a rural area with a small congretion of 30 or so. This past Sunday the Pastor started his sermon by saying how much good the Bush tax cut could have done if it had been used to alleviate poverty. He then went on to say that the gap between the rich and the poor in this country has never been greater. I don't know what he said after this as I walked out as he had assured me a few months ago that the pulpit would not be used for political purposes. Now as I contemplate my possibile response to this situation I am in need of facts concerning the Bush tax cut and the good it did this great nation and the alleged wide gap between the rich and poor. My guess is that the Bush administration has done plenty to alleviate poverty. Thanks for any facts you might provide.........
1 posted on 12/01/2004 6:04:01 PM PST by OklaRancher
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To: OklaRancher
Welcome to the forum. Click here.
2 posted on 12/01/2004 6:07:05 PM PST by Coop (In memory of a true hero - Pat Tillman)
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To: OklaRancher
I see nothing wrong with using the pulpit for political purposes. So long as it doesn't stray from teaching the good moral values. What I do see wrong is your pastor has his facts all wrong.

While I don't have hard facts in front of me at the moment, I hope that you get what your looking for and set your pastor straight.

3 posted on 12/01/2004 6:08:06 PM PST by BigSkyFreeper (Congratulations President-Re-Elect George W. Bush!)
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To: OklaRancher

Just tell him you gave part of your tax cut as tithing to the church instead of letting the government fund the ACLU, National Endowment for the Arts (cross in urine), and planned parenthood.


4 posted on 12/01/2004 6:08:34 PM PST by JustAnotherOkie
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To: OklaRancher

If your pastor believes that more taxes equals giving to the poor, ask him how much of his income above the required amount he gives to the government. Liberals are so screwed up. They actually believe that taxes equal charitable giving. This is why the states that are taxed the highest (all blue) have the LOWEST per capita giving despite having 50 million FEWER adults.

The Methodist Church has been taken over by liberals who don't even bother to read the bible. Find a good Southern Baptist church and go there.


5 posted on 12/01/2004 6:12:10 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (God is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: OklaRancher

We've spent 4-6 trillion dollars in the "war on poverty" in the past 40 years. At what point do you accept that a transfer of wealth doesn't work.

It's the old "give a man a fish........."

Some people will be poor even if given a million dollars. There will just be a short period in their life that they weren't poor.


6 posted on 12/01/2004 6:12:22 PM PST by digger48
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To: OklaRancher
The benefits of tax cuts -- inasmuch as they contribute to a growing economy -- are well-documented elsewhere.

You might want to remind the pastor that taking care of the poor is the moral responsibility of (properly led)Christians as individuals, not the Government.

7 posted on 12/01/2004 6:12:25 PM PST by Mr. Buzzcut (metal god)
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To: OklaRancher
He then went on to say that the gap between the rich and the poor in this country has never been greater.

In any well functioning economy the gap between rich and poor will always be getting larger as there will always be people with zero.

8 posted on 12/01/2004 6:12:28 PM PST by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along)
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To: OklaRancher

You're going to have a very tough time disputing what the preacher says...However; when you find out his/her views on queer preachers and marriage, Israel, salvation, etc.,, you probably would have walked out anyway...


9 posted on 12/01/2004 6:12:31 PM PST by Iscool (Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten it !!!)
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To: Coop

i was told once that for every dollar the USG spends (taxes) the private sector would turn that dollar over 5 to 7 times. i think there is some truth to this but not sure of exact numbers


10 posted on 12/01/2004 6:12:34 PM PST by camas
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To: OklaRancher
ok, this is only tongue & cheek - if he feels so strongly then he could give up the church's tax exempt status

but seriously, if you do a little research I think you could come up with some info. outlining that massive amount of $$$ spent on the "war on poverty" since the 60s and then compare hat against the % of US population classified as impoverished over the time period since. Extrapolating the relationship of public $$$ spent to poor population and I would imagine that many hundreds of billions, if not trillions, would be required in order to eliminate "poverty". Wish I could just give you the facts and figures but I do not know them off of the top of my head.
11 posted on 12/01/2004 6:14:06 PM PST by Texas_Jarhead
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To: OklaRancher
Ask him if he and his wife gave that $600 that Bush made sure they got in 2001, to the poor and if so did he deduct it from his taxes as a charitable contribution reducing his tax liability so he could give even more money to the poor.

Ask him how much LBJs Great Society has spent on stamping out poverty and why it's been such a failure.

12 posted on 12/01/2004 6:15:22 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham
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To: OklaRancher

The tax cut will alleviate more poverty the way it's being worked now than if double the amount had been tendered to the poor in the form of handouts.


13 posted on 12/01/2004 6:17:40 PM PST by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: OklaRancher
The only words in the Bible that libs know are the few regarding the poor.

I don`t have any idea the theology of the church you attend but if this is an issue of more pressing concern than salvation through Jesus it may be time to find another place of worship.

14 posted on 12/01/2004 6:19:01 PM PST by carlr
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To: OklaRancher
First, unfortunately, there is an ever widening gap between the rich and poor. The problem being, the poorest Americans have no capital to invest to grow wealth. The rich are rich because they generate wealth. Some of it manages to get to those lower on the economic scale, but it is a by-product of capitalism, and therefore unavoidable.

As far as your search for facts, this web page; http://www.econ.umn.edu/~bplatt/Rational/TaxCuts.htm gives some factual information directly related to the Bush tax cuts as well as a tax chart showing who got what cut and how they were effected economically. A quote from the page being

"Bear in mind that this is actual historical data coming straight from the 1040 forms that you and I submit - we aren't just talking about what happened "in theory," but what actually happened. Notice that every taxpayer earning less than $200,000 dollars received a tax cut, effectively giving them between a 1.4% to 2.6% raise in income. Remarkably, the only people seeing savings of 2% or more are those earning less than $20,000. The idea that the tax cut only helped the rich is complete falsehood."

Hopefully this'll help in your search.

15 posted on 12/01/2004 6:19:51 PM PST by infidel29 (America is GREAT because she is GOOD, the moment she ceases to be GOOD, she ceases to be GREAT - B.F)
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To: OklaRancher

in order for government to end poverty, they must hire four people to oversee the spending, one to collect, one to verify collection, one to verify distribution and one to distribute. for those government employees, poverty ends. unfortunately, the government does not earn money, but must take it from taxpayers. these taxpayers if not supporting government, would be supporting charities that actually would help the poor.

you will not change your pastor's mind... you are better off in another church.

teeman


16 posted on 12/01/2004 6:19:52 PM PST by teeman8r
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To: digger48
Some people will be poor even if given a million dollars. There will just be a short period in their life that they weren't poor.

Rodney King is a prime example. He got millions after his nationally televised role as an LAPD piñata, but pissed it all away and wound up back in jail inside of two years. Poverty isn't a financial circumstance, it's a state of mind.

17 posted on 12/01/2004 6:24:00 PM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: JustAnotherOkie

Those are good ones. Private charity is simply far more effective that government spending:

"...if an individual gives a dollar to charity, he should be able to reduce his tax liability by a dollar. Since current federal welfare spending is equivalent to 41 percent of the revenue generated from personal income taxes (for all major means-tested programs), the credit could be capped at 41 percent of tax liability.

Private charities are able to individualize their approach to the circumstances of poor people in ways that governments can never do. For example, private charities may reduce or withhold benefits if a recipient does not change his or her behavior. Private charities are much more likely than government programs to offer counseling and one-on-one follow-up rather than simply providing a check. "

"Private charities are also much better able to target assistance to those who really need help. Because eligibility requirements for government welfare programs are arbitrary and cannot be changed to fit individual circumstances, many people in genuine need do not receive assistance, while benefits often go to people who do not really need them. More than 40 percent of all families living below the poverty level receive no government assistance. Yet, more than half of the families receiving means- tested benefits are not poor. Thus, a student may receive food stamps, while a homeless man with no mailing address goes without. Private charities are not bound by such bureaucratic restrictions."

"In 1965, 70 cents of every dollar spent by the government to fight poverty went directly to poor people. Today, 70 cents of every dollar goes not to poor people, but to government bureaucrats and others who serve the poor. Few private charities have the bureaucratic overhead and inefficiency of government programs."

Read the whole thing at the Cato institute website. Its a congressional testimony.

http://www.cato.org/testimony/ct-ta3-9.html


18 posted on 12/01/2004 6:24:19 PM PST by Canuckistan
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To: infidel29
Notice that every taxpayer earning less than $200,000 dollars received a tax cut, effectively giving them between a 1.4% to 2.6% raise in income.

No sorry that's wrong, they just let us keep more of our money already earned.

19 posted on 12/01/2004 6:27:15 PM PST by this_ol_patriot
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To: OklaRancher
Whack him over the head with the King James Bible:

Matthew 26:11 "26:11 For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always."

20 posted on 12/01/2004 6:27:25 PM PST by xJones (I was tagged once and it hurt.)
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