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To: boris
The "global warming" hoax is being used as a political device designed to stampede governments into making unwise, precipitous, and pernicious policy changes they would otherwise not make.

Boris, while I respect you, you may not respect me. With that preamble, I will state with 100% absolute, total, and unrelenting certainty that "global warming" is not a hoax. I.e., the globe/planet is warming, hard data and less-hard enviromental/ecological observations show it beyond any reasonable doubt.

Lest you think that's a radical statement, before you attack with guns blazing: I will fully admit that predictions regarding the absolute magnitude of warming in the next century are highly uncertain; attribution of the amount of warming due to human cause vs. natural cause is also uncertain; and there should be no "scare" involved in the assessment of the issue. There is a radical environmental fringe that is trying to scare governments into unwise action.

But it's not a hoax. The introduction to this article is erroneous. And the implied impugnment of scientic knowledge and veracity that accompanies it almost sickens me.

56 posted on 12/02/2004 3:10:38 PM PST by cogitator
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To: cogitator

http://www.iceagenow.com/Ocean_Warming.htm


63 posted on 12/02/2004 4:17:58 PM PST by kabar
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To: cogitator
...I will state with 100% absolute, total, and unrelenting certainty that "global warming" is not a hoax. I.e., the globe/planet is warming...

Such a statement (and its converse) are proveably true if one chooses an appropriate starting point. That, of course, renders such statements rather meaningless as statements of absolute, total, and unrelenting certainty; they are indeed relative to some other chosen point of data. This observation applies as well to the protection of endangered species, wetlands, buggy whips, and oil lamps as it does to global warming.

Who, exactly, was the one who chose the starting point for this "warming" and why is that choice anything other than a reflection of some other bias or agenda?

64 posted on 12/02/2004 4:20:12 PM PST by Dimples
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To: cogitator
I will state with 100% absolute, total, and unrelenting certainty that "global warming" is not a hoax. I.e., the globe/planet is warming, hard data and less-hard enviromental/ecological observations show it beyond any reasonable doubt.

Pardon me for butting in. I don't want to put words into Boris's mouth but if he meant that human-caused global warming is a hoax, I agree. We're in an interglacial and global temperatures are warming, just as they've done in countless previous glacial-interglacial cycles.

There are some natural calamities we hubristic humans can't prevent: hurricanes, tidal waves, volcanoes, earthquakes, floods, asteroid impacts, etc. Global cooling and warming belong on that list. If we can't even account for human vs. natural warming and can't predict its magnitude we don't have much to work with. In the worst case we should plan to do what our species has always done to survive: adapt.

68 posted on 12/02/2004 4:56:13 PM PST by Bernard Marx (Don't make the mistake of interpreting my Civility as Servility)
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To: cogitator
"And the implied impugnment of scientic knowledge and veracity that accompanies it almost sickens me."

How apt:

scientism

("saI@ntIz(@)m)  [f. scient- (see scientist) + -ism.] 

   1. The habit and mode of expression of a man of science.

   1877 Fraser's Mag. XVI. 274 Its dogmatism on the one hand,+and its scientism on the other, even when most atheistic, are tempered with mutual civility.  1895 Daily News 14 Nov. 6/5 By scientism he meant to express that change which had come over the thought of the world in consequence of the wonderful additions to the common stock of knowledge.  1903 Contemp. Rev. May 727 What modern Scientism knows as the Supersensuous Consciousness.  

   2. A term applied (freq. in a derogatory manner) to a belief in the omnipotence of scientific knowledge and techniques; also to the view that the methods of study appropriate to physical science can replace those used in other fields such as philosophy and, esp., human behaviour and the social sciences.

   1921 G. B. Shaw Back to Methuselah p. lxxviii, The iconography and hagiology of Scientism are as copious as they are mostly squalid.  1937 J. Laver French Painting in Nineteenth Cent. i. 73 It really appeared to many educated people that at last all the secrets of the universe would be discovered and all the problems of human life solved. This superstition+we may call Scientism.  1938 G. Reavey tr. Berdyaev's Solitude & Society i. 12 Science has not only progressively reduced the competence of philosophy, but it has also attempted to suppress it altogether and to replace it by its own claim to universality. This process is generally known as scientism.  1942 F. A. von Hayek in Economica IX. 269 We shall wherever we are concerned, not with the general spirit of disinterested inquiry but with that slavish imitation of the method and language of science, speak of scientism or the scientistic prejudice.  1953 A. H. Hobbs Social Problems & Scientism ii. 17 Scientism, as a belief that science can furnish answers to all human problems, makes science a substitute for philosophy, religion, manners, and morals.+ It is a pattern of beliefs+a creed that shapes thinking and affects behavior.  1956 E. H. Hutten Lang. Mod. Physics vi. 273 This belief in the omnipotence of science is+making a mockery of science: for this scientism represents the same, superstitious, attitude which, in previous times, ascribed such power to a supernatural agency.  1957 W. H. Whyte Organization Man iii. 23 Scientism,+the promise that with the same techniques that have worked in the physical sciences we can eventually create an exact science of man.  1969 Encounter Jan. 23/2 There is an aberration of science+which has come to be known as scientism.+ It stands for the belief that science knows or will soon know all the answers.  1972 K. R. Popper Objective Knowl. iv. 185 The term scientism meant originally the slavish imitation of the method and language of (natural) science, especially by social scientists.  Ibid. 186 But I would go even further and accuse at least some professional historians of scientism.  1977 A. Sheridan tr. J. Lacan's Écrits iii. 76 The early development of psychoanalysis+expresses+nothing less than the re-creation of human meaning in an arid period of scientism.  1980 Times Lit. Suppl. 26 Sept. 1072/2 Naturalism, in David Thomas's usage, is equivalent to what many know as scientism: the doctrine that there is no reason to think that the study of human agents, and the study of the social systems to which human agents give rise, cannot be pursued according to a methodology drawn from natural science.  

75 posted on 12/02/2004 8:33:15 PM PST by boris (The deadliest weapon of mass destruction in history is a Leftist with a word processor)
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