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UK: Gun Crime - Rising Every Year
The Scotsman ^ | Dec. 2, 2004 | Wesley Johnson, PA

Posted on 12/02/2004 5:44:47 PM PST by Mr. Mojo

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To: Chemist_Geek
The recent success of licensed concealed carry laws provides a very good model

Do you support free speech licensing as well?

41 posted on 12/03/2004 10:30:23 AM PST by jmc813 (J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS)
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To: Chemist_Geek

Interesting post, thanks.

I agree. Also I think US gun owners take our situation very personally, but they fail to realise that you cannot simply just introduce weapons freely to a society that has very little experience of them. If it were to come it would be gradual.

Britain has severe social disorder problems. Guns aren't gonna help the matter.

We on this side of the pond fully support your constitutional right to bear arms. However, no one can say that guns automatically equal a safer society, as there are countries with strict gun laws and low crime rates, just as there are countries with liberal gun laws and low crime rates. And vice versa. There is no constant.

Guns are just the tip of the iceberg. The real problems are how we have tolerated crime, vandalism and social disorder as a "fact of life".

If we were to import anything from the USA, I would rather it were the New York style zero-tolerance policing of the Giuliani era.

Sadly the liberals run our cities and howls of "civil rights abuses" deafen the cries for help from the real victims.

What liberals seem to forget is that crime is the biggest civil rights abuse there is.


42 posted on 12/03/2004 10:40:00 AM PST by The_Englishman
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To: NRA2BFree

Of course not, because you can't back up your claims and it's easier to NOT deal with the truth

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/810522.stm

(no further comment)


43 posted on 12/03/2004 10:40:12 AM PST by BritishBulldog (New Labour - Putting the "National" back into "Socialist")
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To: The_Englishman
However, no one can say that guns automatically equal a safer society

Answer this honestly...Would things have turned out better if German Jews were not disarmed in the 1930's? I have a feeling you are not aware of the original intent of our Second Amendment. It's not about hunting or self-defense.

44 posted on 12/03/2004 10:47:28 AM PST by jmc813 (J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS)
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To: jmc813

Who's to say how things would have turned out? Hindsight offers us a number of other perspectives.

I get your point, but the issue here is crime, not 2nd Amendment style protection against federal government.

That is a very American issue, and one which I am unqualified to comment on.


45 posted on 12/03/2004 10:56:15 AM PST by The_Englishman
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To: The_Englishman
I get your point, but the issue here is crime, not 2nd Amendment style protection against federal government. That is a very American issue, and one which I am unqualified to comment on.

The fact remains that you guys have had your share of crummy rulers over the years. Having an unarmed populace is a major-league gamble, regardless of what country they are in.

46 posted on 12/03/2004 11:03:42 AM PST by jmc813 (J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS)
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To: BritishBulldog
Thank you!!!! You just proved my point. Your "Home Office" was using figures from a report produced by the US Department of Justice in 1998 which would appear to support the "Home Office's" claims. If you run the figures starting from the date that guns were banned in the UK and compare that to current stats during the same time period from the US, you will notice just how fast crime is rising in the UK compared to how fast it is rising in the US. Based on the rate of increase in the UK, compared to the increase in the US, the UK's increase is much higher than ours is. Yeah, in a few years, you'll be wanting to arm yourself. Of course, that will be to defend yourself not only against the run of the mill criminals, but also against Islam. LOL

Oh, btw, you should tell the Home Office that CBS and Dan Rather are the LAST people they should get their information from. But....of course, you know that. :)

47 posted on 12/03/2004 11:43:38 AM PST by NRA2BFree
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To: jmc813

"The fact remains that you guys have had your share of crummy rulers over the years"

Winston Churchill
Margaret Thatcher
Harold McMillen

(I won't mention Blair in the same company)

But then you guys have had Clinton & Carter.

So I guess we've both had our fair share, eh.

I should say though that I regard Reagan and Bush (W) in the same class as Thatcher and Churchill (well, maybe not Churchill, he stands alone)


48 posted on 12/03/2004 11:54:24 AM PST by BritishBulldog (New Labour - Putting the "National" back into "Socialist")
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To: NRA2BFree

That's right, if you don't like the facts, rubbish the source.

Facts are facts my friend.


49 posted on 12/03/2004 11:55:32 AM PST by BritishBulldog (New Labour - Putting the "National" back into "Socialist")
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To: BritishBulldog
Winston Churchill Margaret Thatcher Harold McMillen

You've certainly had some fine leaders, but I was talking more along the lines of Henry VIII and whatnot.

50 posted on 12/03/2004 12:13:30 PM PST by jmc813 (J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS)
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To: jmc813
Do you believe the government ought to not have any authority? Do you believe the government ought to exist at all?

Oh, and in answer to your question: Yes. Speech may and must be regulated as to time, place, and manner.

51 posted on 12/03/2004 12:18:05 PM PST by Chemist_Geek ("Drill, R&D, and conserve" should be our watchwords! Energy independence for America!)
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To: BritishBulldog
That's right, if you don't like the facts, rubbish the source.

Facts are facts my friend.

I'm NOT "rubbishing" the source. In the case of CBS/Dan Rather, they did it to themselves.

Indeed, "facts are facts" unless the "facts" are NOT current. They are simply outdated. :)

52 posted on 12/03/2004 12:19:12 PM PST by NRA2BFree
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To: Chemist_Geek
Higher crime rates - for all crimes, or for the old crimes plus the new ones?

That's what I was wondering, too. How much of this increase in "gun crimes" is otherwise law abiding citizens found in violation of gun prohibition laws?

53 posted on 12/03/2004 12:21:07 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Chemist_Geek
Do you believe the government ought to not have any authority?

According to a literal interperetation of the Second Amendment (which, if I recall correctly, you do not subscribe to, correct me if I'm mistaken), the government most certainly should not have any authority over firearms.

Do you believe the government ought to exist at all?

Sure, as long as they keep their dick-grabbers off of my guns.

54 posted on 12/03/2004 12:22:38 PM PST by jmc813 (J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS)
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To: Chemist_Geek
Yes. Speech may and must be regulated as to time, place, and manner.

Bull$hit laws such as campaign finance reform are passed due to such attitudes.

55 posted on 12/03/2004 12:25:09 PM PST by jmc813 (J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS)
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To: jmc813

Somalia-style society is the result of anarchic attitudes such as yours.


56 posted on 12/03/2004 12:27:01 PM PST by Chemist_Geek ("Drill, R&D, and conserve" should be our watchwords! Energy independence for America!)
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To: Chemist_Geek
Somalia-style society is the result of anarchic attitudes such as yours.

Do you consider our Founding Fathers to be anarchists due to their opposition to any firearm regulation?

57 posted on 12/03/2004 12:28:16 PM PST by jmc813 (J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS)
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To: BritishBulldog
No further comment (on this subject) will be forthcoming from this gun-less Limey, by the way.

lol.....I knew that was BS.

58 posted on 12/03/2004 12:31:37 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: Mr. Mojo

"lol.....I knew that was BS."


;o)


59 posted on 12/03/2004 1:49:19 PM PST by BritishBulldog (New Labour - Putting the "National" back into "Socialist")
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To: The_Englishman

If we did bail you out in the 1940s, you would be speaking German. Ever read the novel 'Battle of Britain'?


60 posted on 12/03/2004 3:37:07 PM PST by Cobra64 (Babes should wear Bullet Bras - www.BulletBras.net)
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