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FBI: Jews Need Not Apply For Arabic Linguist Jobs
www.worldnetdaily.com ^ | October 9, 2003 | Paul Sperry

Posted on 12/03/2004 12:39:45 PM PST by Mars55

Despite a shortage of Arabic translators, the FBI turned down applications for linguist jobs from nearly 100 Arabic-speaking Jews in New York following the World Trade Center attacks, WorldNetDaily has learned.

(Excerpt) Read more at jpef.net ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: arabs; jews; linguists; translators
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Back to the Tower of Babel. In case anybody missed this back in '03. No wonder this country has slipshod security! Whose idiotic idea was this? Read the article for more on the outrage, because if true, that's what it is. This is just the kind of gross incompetence and carelessness which gets people killed, and has. Does the FBI really prefer Muslim Arabic speakers over Jewish Arabic speakers? If so, why? What is the motivation behind this policy? Who is more likely to betray us? I understand that there is quite a backlog of untranslated documents and recorded dialogue in Arabic. Are they just going to let that material sit there and gather dust while qualified linguists are turned away and opportunities for uncovering plots to murder Americans remain secret? Perhaps the FBI should contact the military on how to utilize linguists, since they dispay more wisdom on the subject.
1 posted on 12/03/2004 12:39:46 PM PST by Mars55
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To: Mars55

Unbelievable. Truly unbelievable.

Is competence too much to ask for?


2 posted on 12/03/2004 12:42:00 PM PST by redstatemomma (no computers were harmed in the creation of this tagline)
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To: Mars55
Part of the problem with Jews who speak Arabic is that many of them have immediate ties at one or two removes with Iraq itself.

Saddam Hussein and the Ba'thist expelled the Jews when they took power.

3 posted on 12/03/2004 12:42:24 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Mars55

Everybody should learn Arabic so we don't even need translaters, and this is because it looks like we are going to be involved with things Arabic for a long time. It can't be that hard to learn, considering that 3 year olds on the streets of Baghdad and Cairo can speak it.


4 posted on 12/03/2004 12:43:06 PM PST by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: redstatemomma

This isn't just a lack of competence, it's an illegal application of religious discrimination.


5 posted on 12/03/2004 12:43:44 PM PST by PeoplesRepublicOfWashington (Patriotism is patriotic.)
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To: Mars55

I'd imagine that one of the key conditions for accepting employment for many arabs would be an environment that is Juridden.

Owl_Eagle

”Guns Before Butter.”


6 posted on 12/03/2004 12:44:24 PM PST by South Hawthorne (Zell Miller- No Better Friend, No Worse Enemy.)
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To: muawiyah

Yup. I can see why they might have been excluded. Two reasons right up front.

1. Ties to Israeli Intelligence.
2. Not enough information to clear the candidate's background sufficient for employment.

This looks like another FBI hit piece. Out of context.


7 posted on 12/03/2004 12:44:28 PM PST by RinaseaofDs (The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.)
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To: Mars55

This is even more laughable when you consider that there are native Jewish speakers of the local idioms, accents and dialects from many Arabic-speaking countries: North Africa, Yemen, Syria, etc (and don't forget Persian Jews who are native speakers of Farsi spoken in Iran).


8 posted on 12/03/2004 12:45:42 PM PST by hlmencken3 ("...politics is a religion substitute for liberals and they can't stand the competition")
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To: RinaseaofDs
It's probably very difficult to do a clearance on someone in NYC who has a grandfather from Iraq, and has some family members living in Israel, and some here, and some in France.

Doesn't mean they can't do a good job translating for you ~ just that there's not enough money in the world to do a clearance on them.

9 posted on 12/03/2004 12:47:09 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: RinaseaofDs
It's probably very difficult to do a clearance on someone in NYC who has a grandfather from Iraq, and has some family members living in Israel, and some here, and some in France.

Doesn't mean they can't do a good job translating for you ~ just that there's not enough money in the world to do a clearance on them.

10 posted on 12/03/2004 12:47:10 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: redstatemomma
I have reviewed most of the requirements for a linguist. Unfortunately, the requesting agencies are requiring advanced degrees, even when an equivalent experience from living in ME countries among the natives and knowing the accents and nuances of the language that are not necessarily taught in language schools.
11 posted on 12/03/2004 12:48:11 PM PST by NY Attitude
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To: RightWhale

it looks like we are going to be involved with things Arabic for a long time.

Not to come off sounding like Ed Begley jr., but if we had an alternative fuel source, like solar, we could let that festering hell hole that is the arab world sink back into it's petty tyrannies and total irrelevance.  Little more than apes for the Israelis to keep in line.

(Actually, that second part doesn't sound much like Ed Begley jr. at all, does it?)

Owl_Eagle

”Guns Before Butter.”


12 posted on 12/03/2004 12:48:27 PM PST by South Hawthorne (Zell Miller- No Better Friend, No Worse Enemy.)
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To: Mars55
Pure racism and idiocy. The FBI bureaucracy needs a cleaning out of the Clitonistas
13 posted on 12/03/2004 12:50:23 PM PST by Cutterjohnmhb
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To: Mars55

Sigh - dumb dumb dumb

Even if you wanted to keep a Jew from directly translating an Arab for PC reasons, you could most certainly use Jews for translating the backlog of recordings.


14 posted on 12/03/2004 12:51:41 PM PST by taxcontrol (People are entitled to their opinion - no matter how wrong it is.)
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To: muawiyah
Part of the problem with Jews who speak Arabic is that many of them have immediate ties at one or two removes with Iraq itself.

And that is a problem because.....?

15 posted on 12/03/2004 12:52:15 PM PST by Alouette ("Fundamentalist Islam" -- not "fun" just "demented"...)
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To: RightWhale

I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree totally with you. We really are going to be busy with Arabic speakers for a long time to come. So long, in fact, that American schools should immediately make plans to begin teaching Arabic in our schools in order to make it easier to understand these people and what they are up to (especially terrorists). I'm serious about this; I think you are, too. We cannot afford to remain so "cut off" from a major world civilization, some of who members have lethal issues with us.
What do you say, educators? What do you think?


16 posted on 12/03/2004 12:53:35 PM PST by Mars55
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To: RightWhale

Inshallah!


17 posted on 12/03/2004 12:53:54 PM PST by headsonpikes (Another five-fingered Canadian... ;^))
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To: Owl_Eagle

You know that C Columbus' great goal was not to find a sea route to the Orient just for the heck of it, but to cut the bedouins out of a lucrative and dangerous set of trade routes to India. It happened, too, even if it wasn't Columbus hinself that did it, and the ME was out of business for a few centuries. Oil brought them back, and with all the same old irritations.


18 posted on 12/03/2004 12:56:39 PM PST by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: Mars55
Does the FBI really prefer Muslim Arabic speakers over Jewish Arabic speakers? If so, why? What is the motivation behind this policy? Who is more likely to betray us?

This is a repeat of a number of stories from a few years ago. The reasons given were arternatively that the Jew's might be biased in translating Arabic documents, and that they all failed the exams.

19 posted on 12/03/2004 1:00:55 PM PST by SJackson ( Bush is as free as a bird, He is only accountable to history and God, Ra'anan Gissin)
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To: redstatemomma

My father who was freed from the concentration camps by the US, because he spoke 7 languages, was quickly hired by the OSS.

See we used to win wars back then.

Don't get me wrong we still do, but at what cost stupidity!


20 posted on 12/03/2004 1:01:48 PM PST by funkywbr
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To: Mars55

We are in need of a Porter Goss at the FBI.


21 posted on 12/03/2004 1:02:14 PM PST by mware
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Yehuda; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; ...
If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.
22 posted on 12/03/2004 1:03:09 PM PST by SJackson ( Bush is as free as a bird, He is only accountable to history and God, Ra'anan Gissin)
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To: muawiyah

Translation is some of the most sensitive work there is. All I implied was that I could see why the FBI did it. The story doesn't say how many actually were hired, or talk about the specific reasons why the others weren't hired.


23 posted on 12/03/2004 1:04:59 PM PST by RinaseaofDs (The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.)
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To: muawiyah
Part of the problem with Jews who speak Arabic is that many of them have immediate ties at one or two removes with Iraq itself.

As opposed to an Arab who speaks Arabic that has immediate ties to Iraq?

They aren't hiring Arabic speaking Norwegians to fill these jobs.

24 posted on 12/03/2004 1:05:34 PM PST by SJackson ( Bush is as free as a bird, He is only accountable to history and God, Ra'anan Gissin)
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To: headsonpikes
Ahlan. Ana ismee Rightwhale.

Should that be right to left?

.elahwthgiR eemsi anA .nalhA

LOL

25 posted on 12/03/2004 1:09:22 PM PST by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: RinaseaofDs
Yup. I can see why they might have been excluded. Two reasons right up front.
1. Ties to Israeli Intelligence.
2. Not enough information to clear the candidate's background sufficient for employment.
This looks like another FBI hit piece. Out of context.

That's nonsense, which is why the FBI never used the excuse. The FBI is quite competant at doing security checks. As I recall, this turned out to be a relatively low level decision, for which there were no explanations.

I'm curious, how would a 1st or 2nd generation Egyptian, Jordanian or Iraqi Jew be more of an inherant security risk than an 1st or 2nd generation Egyptian, Jordanian or Iraqi Arab.

26 posted on 12/03/2004 1:09:28 PM PST by SJackson ( Bush is as free as a bird, He is only accountable to history and God, Ra'anan Gissin)
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To: SJackson

i/I'm curious, how would a 1st or 2nd generation Egyptian, Jordanian or Iraqi Jew be more of an inherant security risk than an 1st or 2nd generation Egyptian, Jordanian or Iraqi Arab./i

Without doing a proper background check, I couldn't tell you. You can't make blanket generalizations about nationalites in individual hiring decisions.

The son of a leader for Hamas might be the right man for the translator job, simply because his dad killed his mom and hates him for it.

You can't know these things unless you do the work. Again, all I can tell you is that there wasn't enough information in the article to make a judgement about the FBI. I do know that the way it was written, the FBI comes out looking bad, however. This is generally what happens in the press - it's the government or Americans that are the idiots.

What we do know is that the FBI has been partially responsible in keeping us terrorist-attack free since 9/11. That cannot have been an easy thing to succeed at. On that basis, I will give them the benefit of the doubt.


27 posted on 12/03/2004 1:21:34 PM PST by RinaseaofDs (The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.)
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To: Mars55
Everybody should learn Arabic so we don't even need translaters, and this is because it looks like we are going to be involved with things Arabic for a long time. It can't be that hard to learn, considering that 3 year olds on the streets of Baghdad and Cairo can speak it. . . . American schools should immediately make plans to begin teaching Arabic in our schools in order to make it easier to understand these people and what they are up to (especially terrorists). I'm serious about this; I think you are, too. We cannot afford to remain so "cut off" from a major world civilization, some of who members have lethal issues with us.

The average American . . . I among them . . . is too lazy, too busy, not capable, or simply not interested.

I am forever amazed, and somewhat shamed, to see on the news some Afghani out in the middle of some swirling dust pit speaking better English than I speak the prevalent non-English language spoken around here. When and how did they learn?

What you're asking, not unreasonably, calls for quite a revolution in education. Think of the politics set to boil up over that!
28 posted on 12/03/2004 1:26:10 PM PST by Racehorse
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To: RightWhale
I don't need to understand Arabic - Arabs need to understand this:


29 posted on 12/03/2004 1:29:19 PM PST by Redbob
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To: Redbob

When Saddam was 12 his uncle gave him a Model 1911 so that Saddam could attend school. Saddam wore it to school and everywhere else from then on. Point is, they know Arabic, English, AND Browning. We know English and Browning. Would it not be advantageous to know a little more?


30 posted on 12/03/2004 1:40:31 PM PST by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: michaelnissan

The problem is like you said. Want to go mainstream, Cairo is the center of the Arabic world. But maybe the Cairo dialect wouldn't get 100% of what the heck OBL is saying.


32 posted on 12/03/2004 1:45:58 PM PST by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: PeoplesRepublicOfWashington

It has little to do with religion and more to do with the fact that they probably refuse to renounce any Israeli citizenship they may hold. The FBI, CIA, etc., don't look kindly on dual-nationals.


33 posted on 12/03/2004 1:59:42 PM PST by Tamar1973 (Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats-- PJ O'Rourke)
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Comment #34 Removed by Moderator

Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: Mars55

A really stupid decision.


36 posted on 12/03/2004 2:13:46 PM PST by hershey
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To: Alouette
...... and the problem is the simple logistics of doing the background check to clear the applicant to do confidental, secret, top secret, or higher translations.

I pointed out that when you have a grandparent in Israel who came from Iraq, and maybe a parent or sibling in France, and you live in New York City, the clearance process can be exceedingly difficult.

I worked for a while with a fellow who'd held a chair at Moscow University in a very narrow field. He'd have gotten a security clearance for the work he was doing without difficulty except that every single individual in Moscow who knew him well, even his relatives, had immigrated to the United States, France, Germany, Argentina, Australia or Israel. They were everywhere!

The clearance could not be obtained in time. He moved to a different job that didn't require a clearance. He was replaced by another individual who shared the same religion, but he'd taken care to make sure his mother and father were born in the US, not Russia, and he'd lived at only 2 addresses his entire life. He had a clearance already!

37 posted on 12/03/2004 2:18:54 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: RinaseaofDs; michaelnissan
I don't have time to link them, but there were a number of articles and several threads on the issue when it happened which went into more detail. This is actually a rehash of very old news, and for all I know things have changed.You could probably find them with a search on FR. As I recall the decision was made by a mid level supervisor in New York. There were less than a hundred jobs to fill, for which a Sephardi Jewish group sent over about 125 applicants, none of which were hired. The initial excuse was that they might have a "pro-Israel" bias in translation, soon changed to "they all failed the tests". Without doing a proper background check, I couldn't tell you. You can't make blanket generalizations about nationalities in individual hiring decisions.

Exactly my point.

The dialect of Arabic that my Iraqi-Jew family speaks is Iraqi but not mainstream Iraqi....

I used the Iraqi example because the poster I was responding to used it. The candidates, both Jewish and Muslim, came from throughout the Arabic speaking world. True or not, dialect could certainly be a legitimate issue, however the FBI didn't raise it. As frequently happens, Freepers have a better handle on these things than mid level bureaucrats.

38 posted on 12/03/2004 2:20:35 PM PST by SJackson ( Bush is as free as a bird, He is only accountable to history and God, Ra'anan Gissin)
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To: SJackson

Actually, they are probably hiring Norwegians who are fluent in Arabic to do the translations. If you recall, Norway has this immense oil industry infrastructure and they hire all sorts of specialists. In oil, you speak Odessa-Midland or Arabic, and sometimes both. Odds are they are NOT hiring Swedes to do the job unless they can get some of Ikea's managers to switch hit.


39 posted on 12/03/2004 2:21:53 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: michaelnissan
It's irrelevant, but I doubt many of these people held Israeli citizenship, most, or their parents, fled here directly from the Arab world. BTW, They may have done security or mil work for the Israelis also which is a no no for the US, understandably. is in no way a "no-no". Lot's of Americans have worked for and with the Israeli military, both in and out of uniform. Many Israelis work in sensitive positions in the US.
40 posted on 12/03/2004 2:23:56 PM PST by SJackson ( Bush is as free as a bird, He is only accountable to history and God, Ra'anan Gissin)
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To: SJackson
You are assuming the FBI turned to a second or third generation Egyptian, etc. to do the job.

BTW, last time I checked the background checking contractors in the DC area were running nearly a year behind, and that was for TSA.

You drop the FBI check on top of that, and you are over a year easy.

Frankly, I'd hire only Hashemites to do the translations.

41 posted on 12/03/2004 2:24:16 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Interestingly through all the threads on this, no one has suggested recruiting arabic speaking Christians, of which there are many, which would solve the problem.


42 posted on 12/03/2004 2:25:03 PM PST by SJackson ( Bush is as free as a bird, He is only accountable to history and God, Ra'anan Gissin)
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To: SJackson
They may have been hiring Arabic speaking Christians in fact, but so terribly many of them are falangists (from Lebanon). Doing a clearance on those guys could be a bear as well.

As far as I know the Syrian, Chaldean and other ME Christian churches in this country have pretty much switched over to an English-only operation, much like the Roman Catholics, so they might not be a good source.

On the other hand, Standard Oil, Shell Oil, etc. all have thousands of American and European employees who speak Arabic! Could be those 100 native speakers were simply edged out by others who were more competent.

43 posted on 12/03/2004 2:31:18 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: RightWhale

I agree that we should learn the language, but it's not as easy as you think. And the older you get, the harder it is to learn a new language.


44 posted on 12/03/2004 3:12:25 PM PST by lancer (If you are not with us, you are against us!)
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To: Cutterjohnmhb
needs a cleaning out of the Clitonistas

Are you suggesting we refer to them as "Clits" for short?

45 posted on 12/03/2004 3:18:07 PM PST by lancer (If you are not with us, you are against us!)
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To: Mars55

I have learned a foreign language, used it in my work for more than 20 years, retired, and taught it at two universities.

There is no better way to learn a culture than to learn that language. The danger is the teacher. One can teach in order to impart understanding of that foreign culture or one can teach to convert to that foreign culture.

I think Arabic teachers who are muslims would do their damnedest to convert and subvert.

But if one wants to learn, one could be careful to choose a good teacher. I like the Pimsleur Arabic CDs, ten for $40 at Barnes and Noble and they walk you through the ropes, reinforcing at every step.


46 posted on 12/03/2004 3:26:19 PM PST by lancer (If you are not with us, you are against us!)
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To: RinaseaofDs

Yup. I can see why they might have been excluded. Two reasons right up front.

1. Ties to Israeli Intelligence.
2. Not enough information to clear the candidate's background sufficient for employment.

1. So it's OK if they have ties to Arabic countries' intelligence agencies but not to Israel's?
2. So you think it's easier to clear someone from Israel than from Iraq because it is easier to do a background investigation in Baghdad than Tel Aviv?
47 posted on 12/03/2004 3:26:29 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: SJackson
Well, we can all sleep better at night, knowing the FBI Arabic linguist program is judenrein. (/sarcasm)
48 posted on 12/03/2004 3:31:50 PM PST by Ciexyz (I use the term Blue Cities, not Blue States. PA is red except for Philly, Pgh & Erie.)
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To: FreedomCalls

"1. So it's OK if they have ties to Arabic countries' intelligence agencies but not to Israel's?
2. So you think it's easier to clear someone from Israel than from Iraq because it is easier to do a background investigation in Baghdad than Tel Aviv?"

Did I say any of those things? Good gravy.

I have reposted what I said early below:


"Without doing a proper background check, I couldn't tell you. You can't make blanket generalizations about nationalites in individual hiring decisions.

The son of a leader for Hamas might be the right man for the translator job, simply because his dad killed his mom and hates him for it.

You can't know these things unless you do the work. Again, all I can tell you is that there wasn't enough information in the article to make a judgement about the FBI. I do know that the way it was written, the FBI comes out looking bad, however. This is generally what happens in the press - it's the government or Americans that are the idiots.

What we do know is that the FBI has been partially responsible in keeping us terrorist-attack free since 9/11. That cannot have been an easy thing to succeed at. On that basis, I will give them the benefit of the doubt."

How did you arrive at the conclusions you did from those statements?

I think there is sufficient evidence to substantiate that Israel regularly operates its spies in the US. Countries have interests, not allies, and as such you have to be as diligent clearing an Israeli translator candidate as you would an Arab. Israel doesn't pose a grave and immediate threat to US national security, unless of course you consider that they were working with the Chinese on advanced avionics, radar, etc.

Regardless of nationality, if the arab translator is Swedish, you have to do the check.

And for the last time, there wasn't enough information in the article to determine whether the FBI was incompetent here. As such, their actions since 9/11 have earned them the benefit of the doubt - in my humble and solitary opinion.

As for 'easy to clear' - depends upon the individual and their history. You may be dealing with a white guy from Orange, CA, who for whatever reason wants to nuke a major US city, and thinks he can help his local Al Qaeda chapter by applying for a job as an Arab Translator. Is that not impossible? The guy in question is white, US citizen, and lives in Orange, for example - you still got to run the guy's background down to find out what makes him tick.

For certain jobs especially, I think you go the extra mile in doing your background checks and clearances. Translation is one of those jobs, in my opinion.


49 posted on 12/03/2004 4:04:38 PM PST by RinaseaofDs (The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.)
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To: SJackson
Prejudice can definitely get you killed,...in many different ways. Especially when it's sanctioned by the state. However, if said applicants didn't meet the FBI's difficult entrance standards/requirements, the story is about a statistic, not institutionalized bigotry .

5.56mm

50 posted on 12/03/2004 4:17:07 PM PST by M Kehoe
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