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Let's not read too much into the fate of ‘Alexander’(Hilarious Movie Review!)
JEWISH WORLD REVIEW ^ | DECEMBER 4, 2004 | JAMES LILEKS

Posted on 12/04/2004 9:22:19 PM PST by CHARLITE

The failure of "Alexander," the newspaper wrote, has "brutally exposed the cultural and moral divide which slices America in two."

Uh-huh. "It is being suggested that a film about a global warrior with dyed blond hair and waxed legs was never going to conquer an America fresh out of a presidential election in which gay rights became a major issue."

Is there another America they might be talking about? Major issue? Brutally exposed? The last thing an American movie brutally exposed was Kathy Bates in the hot-tub scene of "About Schmidt."

(Excerpt) Read more at jewishworldreview.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: alexander; aljolson; bradpitt; carthage; colinfarrell; deputydawg; digdug; eddiemurphy; enricofermi; gaygaygay; hannibal; hollyweird; hosscartwright; juliuscaesar; leliks; liplock; movie; moviereview; oliverstone; omnisexual; prettyboy; rome; slattern; soledadobrian; spartacus; troy; waxedlegs; waxlips
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1 posted on 12/04/2004 9:22:19 PM PST by CHARLITE
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To: CHARLITE

The keywords are wrong....

Brad Pitt was in Troy, not Alexander....


2 posted on 12/04/2004 9:25:43 PM PST by MikefromOhio (37 days until I can leave Iraq for good....)
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To: CHARLITE

I thought Troy was pretty good. Alexander seems to be a crappy movie to me.


3 posted on 12/04/2004 9:27:59 PM PST by Angry Republican (yvan eht nioj!)
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To: Angry Republican
I thought Troy was quite good too.

I'm not expecting much from Alexander but I will see it for the heck of it.

I'm a sucker for the ancient genre.

4 posted on 12/04/2004 9:30:12 PM PST by what's up
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To: CHARLITE

I just learned a new word: "Slattern."

Thanks, Lileks!


5 posted on 12/04/2004 9:30:55 PM PST by Choose Ye This Day (DUmmies: You keep visualizing a Kerry win...we'll lead the world and beat the terrorists. Mmmmkay?)
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To: what's up
I'm a sucker for ancient genre

Good luck with Helen Thomas then. LOL

6 posted on 12/04/2004 9:33:07 PM PST by fish hawk
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To: CHARLITE

My daughter married into a family of the Greek Orthodox faith. Believe me, you don't mess with Greeks...LOL. My son in law is a sweetie, but his family is very animated in their thoughts, and they DO NOT like this movie.


7 posted on 12/04/2004 9:33:29 PM PST by LisaMalia (Merry CHRISTmas!!!!!!)
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To: what's up

Stone has annoyed me too much. I like Val Kilmer, but my disgust with Stone has turned me away from this movie.


8 posted on 12/04/2004 9:33:30 PM PST by Angry Republican (yvan eht nioj!)
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To: MikeinIraq

Brad Pitt is mentioned in the article.


9 posted on 12/04/2004 9:34:03 PM PST by contemplator
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To: CHARLITE

'The battle for Fallujah would make an exceptional movie in the "Black Hawk Down" vein, except of course we win, which gives the producers pause. Wouldn't that be, like, endorsing the war? Can't have that.'

nah, can't have THAT!


10 posted on 12/04/2004 9:36:12 PM PST by bitt (I am smitten by the Prez.)
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To: what's up

Aside from the fact "Troy" stood Homer on his ear- Menelaus dies in the movie, survived in the book, Achilles died before the Trojan Horse, not after, Ajax survived the siege-died shortly afterwords, Agamemnon was killed by his wife when he got home, not by some Trojan chiquita in the smoldering ruins,aside from the fact that Brad Pitt confused the Homerian description of Achilles "sulking" for the Achaen Greek word for "pouting", and despite the fact that the Greeks at Troy did not engage in hoplite/phalanx warfare, and that Homer's siege lasted ten years, not ten days- it wasn't bad.


11 posted on 12/04/2004 9:37:50 PM PST by PzLdr
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To: what's up
I'm a sucker for the ancient genre.

My wife and I were two. You will find yourself bored beyond belief. We would look at each other and mouth (quietly) "Blah, blah, blah" for there is an enormous amount of boring speech in this movie. If you cut out the gratutitus gay-love scenes, the movie would utterly bore you to tears, this movie literally has NO redeeming qualities. It's simply a lousy, rotten, boring, stupid movie. I wouldn't even recommend it as a rental.

Now, it's your money, so go if you like. I'd suggest a matinee; and bring along a book to read. This movie makes competitive tiddly-winks seem like breath of fresh air. On the other hand, my wife and I both enjoyed Troy.

12 posted on 12/04/2004 9:38:10 PM PST by Hodar (With Rights, comes Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: what's up
I'm a sucker for the ancient genre.

I, Claudius is on sale at Amazon.com for $67.49 with free shipping.

13 posted on 12/04/2004 9:38:11 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: contemplator

I would have had to read it then...

the internet it to slow out here to follow every link.....


14 posted on 12/04/2004 9:39:16 PM PST by MikefromOhio (37 days until I can leave Iraq for good....)
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To: fish hawk

Right On. Helen Thomas is my idea of the very worst nightmare.

Can you imagine coming home to that mess at the end of a hard day at the office? Could drive a man to drink.

I know from reliable sources that in 1943, when she last shaved her legs, the Gillette razor broke in two.


15 posted on 12/04/2004 9:39:55 PM PST by dk/coro
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To: PzLdr

I'll take that as a "two thumbs down"!


16 posted on 12/04/2004 9:42:00 PM PST by LisaMalia (Merry CHRISTmas!!!!!!)
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To: what's up

"Do you like gladiator movies, Timmy?"


17 posted on 12/04/2004 9:42:23 PM PST by spodefly (I've posted nothing but BTTT over 1000 times!!!)
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To: spodefly

Ever been in a Turkish prison?


18 posted on 12/04/2004 9:46:58 PM PST by Buck W. (How can anyone who works for a living vote democrat?)
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To: CHARLITE

The movie and the reaction to it is really silly. Maybe no one is seeing it, because the movie stinks.

The MSM is making a big deal out of it, because they simply can't understand the facts.


19 posted on 12/04/2004 9:49:40 PM PST by Mike1973
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To: PzLdr

Not to mention turning Patrilicus and Achillis into .... what, fraternity brothers? C'mon, that's not the Homer I learned.


20 posted on 12/04/2004 9:59:14 PM PST by rpgdfmx
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To: Mike1973

I was so disappointed when the reviews started coming in on "Alexander". I loved Gladiator and was really looking forward to another movie of this type, but when I heard "Big Al" was a guy-kissing, girly-man, crybaby wearing a Toga and loving it type of guy, I had to pass. It's just not the same!


21 posted on 12/04/2004 9:59:44 PM PST by derllak
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To: FreedomCalls
I, Claudius is on sale at Amazon.com for $67.49 with free shipping.

Ah, now that was a great series.

John Hurt as Caligula. WOW!

22 posted on 12/04/2004 10:00:12 PM PST by THX 1138
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To: CHARLITE

LILEKS
is really worth the reading


23 posted on 12/04/2004 10:01:11 PM PST by maine-iac7
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To: MikeinIraq

The article mentions Troy and Pitt


24 posted on 12/04/2004 10:01:17 PM PST by perfect stranger (Godel, Escher and Bach. The Eternal Golden Braid)
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To: FreedomCalls
I, Claudius is on sale at Amazon.com for $67.49 with free shipping.

My favorite of the ancient genre and actually does justice to history--something the ignorami in Hollyweird just can't comprehend.
25 posted on 12/04/2004 10:06:21 PM PST by Antoninus (Santorum in '08)
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To: CHARLITE
When I heard who the Director was, and who was starring as Alexander, I decided I wouldn't see this movie. When I heard that Angelina Jolie was co-starring, I thought I could hold my nose and go.

Since this was probably a typical, trashy Hollywood movie, I was certain to see Angelina Jolie and Colin Ferrell do the dirty deed. Then I found out Angelina plays Colin's mom. I am back to not seeing this flick.

Tonight I watched Tomb Raider on satelite, again, even though I have it, on DVD.

I am a fan of I, Claudius. I've seen the series 3-4 times. Episode 5, "Poison Is Queen," is my favorite. I read the books too.

Dave


26 posted on 12/04/2004 10:33:58 PM PST by Daaave ( I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it.)
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To: MikeinIraq

Schwing, I mean ping post #26.


27 posted on 12/04/2004 10:43:15 PM PST by perfect stranger (Godel, Escher and Bach. The Eternal Golden Braid)
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To: MikeinIraq

>>Brad Pitt was in Troy, not Alexander....<<

Who is Troy?
(Sorry. I had to.)


28 posted on 12/04/2004 11:29:19 PM PST by dangus
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To: LisaMalia

Because Alexander was a Macedonian??


29 posted on 12/04/2004 11:30:38 PM PST by Gondring (They can have my Bill of Rights when they pry it from my cold, dead hands!)
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To: perfect stranger

shes easily the hottest thing out there right now....


30 posted on 12/04/2004 11:35:21 PM PST by MikefromOhio (37 days until I can leave Iraq for good....)
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To: THX 1138

Ah, now that was a great series.

John Hurt as Caligula. WOW!
____________________________________________________________

I remember when it first came out. Mom and Dad always packed me off to bed when it came on. Years later I found out why when I saw episode 12. T&A on PBS in the seventies? WOW!


31 posted on 12/05/2004 12:33:06 AM PST by sinanju
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To: derllak

I loved Gladiator and was really looking forward to another movie of this type, but when I heard "Big Al" was a guy-kissing, girly-man, crybaby wearing a Toga and loving it type of guy, I had to pass. It's just not the same!

Ah yes, the devout General Maximus, a pagan even a christian could approve of.

32 posted on 12/05/2004 12:37:34 AM PST by sinanju
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To: FreedomCalls

I have this; and it is excellent!


33 posted on 12/05/2004 3:36:21 AM PST by Alia
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To: CHARLITE

It seems that Oliver Stone has given undue attention to Alexander's sexual proclivities as compared to the fact that Alexander conquered much of the known world. Furthermore, the whole idea of Alexander as a bottle blonde mullet man is laughable at best.

In short, Stone is a twit. The movie deserves to die an inglorious death.

Regards, Ivan


34 posted on 12/05/2004 3:42:34 AM PST by MadIvan (Gothic. Freaky. Conservative. - http://www.rightgoths.com/)
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To: Buck W.; spodefly
Oh, oh! this thread is headed for "Macho Grande"

Regards,

35 posted on 12/05/2004 4:40:35 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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To: Gondring
Because Alexander was a Macedonian??

Not that there's anything WRONG with that...lol.

36 posted on 12/05/2004 6:48:10 AM PST by LisaMalia (Merry CHRISTmas!!!!!!)
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To: PzLdr
Let's not forget the god were no where to be found neatly removing the fact that Troy was actually a war fought between the gods using human proxies.

I love sword and sandals movies, why is no one able to make them anymore?

37 posted on 12/05/2004 6:56:02 AM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (The future is all around us, waiting in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation.)
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To: CHARLITE

Why can't the studios make another Gladiator? Give us a lead character we can care about, a noble hero, with flaws of course, but someone striving to right a wrong or save a loved one, with fast-paced fight scenes...it wouldn't be that hard, really, but Hollywood can't seem to get it right.


38 posted on 12/05/2004 6:57:21 AM PST by Ciexyz (I use the term Blue Cities, not Blue States. PA is red except for Philly, Pgh & Erie.)
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To: MadIvan

You did hear that Stone is going to make a movie "exploring the possibility of a love affair between Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher" didn't you?


39 posted on 12/05/2004 6:59:29 AM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (The future is all around us, waiting in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation.)
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To: Gondring

Macedonia & Greek one and the same.


40 posted on 12/29/2004 2:08:22 AM PST by apro
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To: CHARLITE

Alexander the gay just doesn't sound right.


41 posted on 12/29/2004 2:20:52 AM PST by Nachoman
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To: CHARLITE
There is good news here.

It will be far more difficult for Oliver Stoned to raise money for future projects. So expect to see less of his wacky view of the world.
42 posted on 12/29/2004 2:29:33 AM PST by Beckwith (John, you said I was going to be the First Lady, as of now, you're on the couch . . .)
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To: Ciexyz

Which is why Asian cinema and anime (for the younger crowd) are eating their lunch these days.


43 posted on 12/29/2004 2:39:33 AM PST by coydog (My bathroom djinn can beat up your bathroom djinn!)
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To: CHARLITE
Keep in mind that Brad Pitt's "Troy" didn't exactly lead to Sparta Fever sweeping the nation, either.

So true, I recall Brad Pitt promising that "We'd have everyone wearing skirts by this summer."

Anyone see Mr. Pitt lately? Didn't think so.

44 posted on 12/29/2004 2:45:44 AM PST by Caipirabob (Democrats.. Socialists..Commies..Traitors...Who can tell the difference?)
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To: apro
Macedonia & Greek one and the same.

Uh, no, sorry...but thanks for playing! :-)

45 posted on 12/29/2004 7:06:35 PM PST by Gondring (They can have my Bill of Rights when they pry it from my cold, dead hands!)
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To: Gondring

"Uh, no, sorry...but thanks for playing! :-)"

Yes they are. Check out some of the ancient artifacts found in Macedonia, Greece:

Gold ring with the incised Greek inscription "DOROV" in Greek alphabet. From Sindos in Thessaloniki. It is dated to the second quarter of the 5th century B.C.
http://alexander.macedonia.culture.gr/2/21/211/21116/21116ek/00/ring.jpg

Sherd of a kylix with an incised inscription in Greek. It is dated to the third quarter of the 6th century B.C. from Sani in Greece.
http://alexander.macedonia.culture.gr/2/21/211/21116/21116ek/00/ostr.jpg

Here is a boundary settlement from 357-350 B.C. between villages and cities of a hilly Macedonian district enforced on the 'waring' local population after the intervening of King Philip II. The border of neighbouring places are defined with reference to rivers, hills, pavements, roads, sanctuaries and private fields. It is written in Greek for the local population. If as some theorize, that the locals and non-royal Macedonians did not speak Greek in those days, then this official document would not be in Greek.
http://alexander.macedonia.culture.gr/2/21/211/21116/21116ek/00/basilika.jpg


46 posted on 12/31/2004 11:46:23 AM PST by apro
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To: apro

Well, without refighting the Macedonian independence movement (BTW, I'm a totally independent observer with no interest in either side's view), let's look at the time in question...Alexander's time, and his father's.

Philip II (Alexander's father) was Philip of Macedon. If he was Greek, why did he "conquer Greece" and raze all "Greek cities" that were in Macedonia? The fact is, Philip II was Macedonian, was King of Macedon, and did not consider himself "Greater Greek" or anything like that. When Alexander campaigned, his army had 4 times as many Macedonians as Greeks in it.

Finding artifacts with certain language markers does not mean the peoples were the same, or considered themselves to be such. And that was the point of the original comments made.


47 posted on 12/31/2004 1:24:27 PM PST by Gondring (They can have my Bill of Rights when they pry it from my cold, dead hands!)
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To: Gondring

I agree, this should be based on facts and what is known from history and not ‘refighting’.

Philip II and his Royal Family considered themselves descendants of the famous Greek hero Hercules, who was Dorian. An inscription of this is found in the Royal House of the Macedonians, written in Doric. They spoke the Greek dialect of Doric. Yes he was known as Philip of Macedonia but people back then were known in those terms, for instance King Alexander of Epirus was known as Alexander of Epirus. A Spartan in Athens would be considered just as much as a foreigner as a Macedonian in Athens. The same would apply for an Athenian in Epirus or Thessaly. That did not mean they were not all Hellenic.

They all shared a common culture in the sense that they were descendants of the various different Greek tribes that existed back then. They all shared the same culture, spoke Greek dialects, and worshiped the same Gods.

Philip didn't 'conquer Greece' since there was no “Greece” to conquer back then, at least not in the modern geographical political terms one associates it with now. What he did was unite the different city states that were at war with each other since their existence. That was not something new originating with Philip. This was an idea that the Athenians as well as the Spartans and other Greek states were dreaming about for thousands of years...hence all the internal fighting between them. Each one wanted to emerge as the dominating state. Also there were Athenians who supported Philip in uniting the Hellenic States in a war against the Persians. One of these was Athenian Isokratis who died before seeing his dream become a reality. The majority of his troops might have been made up of Macedonians but there was also a great amount of Greeks with his court.

As for the artifacts, those were just a few examples with pictures on the internet. All Macedonian names and toponyms, and archaeological evidence is in Greek., gives prudence that they were a Greek culture more than not.


48 posted on 12/31/2004 6:09:12 PM PST by apro
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To: Jimmy Valentine

"Pull out Striker, Pull out!!"


49 posted on 12/31/2004 6:19:05 PM PST by freedumb2003 (When does the Revolution start? I'm going for a bike ride for a while. Please fill me in later.)
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To: freedumb2003
Oh no! we are over "Macho Grande" again!!!

"Have you ever been in a Turkish prison Robbie?"

Yikes,

50 posted on 12/31/2004 6:45:55 PM PST by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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