Posted on 12/08/2004 9:30:48 AM PST by ckilmer
I wondered how this was going. Our #2 son came home with an article about it about a year and a half ago. If investors got interested, each large metropolitan area could have it's own oil refinery! Think of how much LESS stuff would have to go into landfills!
Disagree that it some sort of complete solution.
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true. not a complete solution.
the ideal that everyone seems to be looking at is hydrogen. interestingly the cheapest way so far (the atomic plant out in idaho is still theoretical)to make hydrogen is to mix hot water steam with methane gas under high pressure. as it happens--I think that methane is one of the byproducts of the process here. I've seen as well some new innovations out the oak ridge labs in tennassee that allow for better seperations in this process.
if they can just figure a way to get cheap water desalination--we'd have the makings for a plausible 21st century civilization.
bump.
I have been following this story for several years now.
I don't understand this. Isn't the price of a barrel of oil over $40 per barrel? Before it is refined?
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yes the follow up article I posted is dated
4apr04
(yes, I know that paper and plastic are "organic" - carbon based. I also know the way governments run--once a process is enacted, in this case recycling, it never goes away.)
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well no. the ticket would be to give the waste to a private company for a fee--a small fee. so that instead of municipal waste being in the debit in government budgets--municipal waste would be an asset.
I agree, it would make sense to privatize the process and a possible revenue stream for a municipality! My comments were meant to be sarcastic about the way governments actually run - with so much already invested in the business of recycling, I would expect change to actually take place in small, incremental steps.
Like I said ealier N.Y. garbage is sent to Ohio landfills it would seem to me that if Ohio would put in one of these plants then charege N.Y. to dispose of their garbage then sell the oil created back to N.Y. it would be a great boom to Ohio economy.
oh I see what you mean. yeah it would be a boon for the ohio economy. but the smart thing for new york to do would be to just put one of these biomass refineries around NYC and save themselves the cost of trucking...and keep the change.
In any case Ohio would have plenty of biomass resources too--not only from its cities but--and probably more importantly --from its agriculture.
If he succeeds in making oil from BS then Washington, DC will be the next Saudi Arabia.
If he succeeds in making oil from BS then Washington, DC will be the next Saudi Arabia.
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well stricktly speaking BS oil would be some midwest/western milk or beef state. the refined grades of oil of course would have to come from PS oil. Not sure which state is the king of PS here. Likely the midwest somewhere. But everytime there's a hurricane come up the eastcoast it washes out the Pig farms in North Carolina and fills the rivers downstream with PS.
When Brian Appel gave a presentation of his technology to state officials in North Carolina a year or so ago--Mr Appel got a standing ovation.
"municipal waste would be an asset."
You are spot on, here. The municipality I work for runs a landfill and a sewage treatment plant. They are in the early planning stages to pursue this (after I showed them several articles two years ago.)
The big hold up right now? Capitalization, times are tough in California. If this had been developed 7 years earlier, we would already have had the plant built and operating. If I had the money, I'd finance it myself in a heartbeat.
It will be interesting to see how this works out in Philadelphia. I suspect they will find dozens of major cities jumping in as soon as the process shows results.
works for me too.
Turkey guts and their contents. Took a tour of a chicken processing plant about twelve years ago and the second stage was the "removal" of the innards. That part of the plant held quite an aroma.
You know, you might not be too far off! If the technology is sound and the cost of constructing a refinery could be "manageable" then lots of municipalities could generate their own fuel needs, for transportation, heating and industry.
Assuming all this is true and feasible as a process for producing oil--wouldn't we have to be up to our ass in turkeys to provide all the offal necessary to make a serious addition to oil supplies?
I happen to know a little about turkey farms. They regularly have sudden diseases that can kill off 50,000 turkeys at a time. Wouldn't this cause a temporary shortfall in offal supplies--and a spike in the price of oil for turkey speculators.
And what about the cost of raising them? Wouldn't it be cheaper to simply take the corn and convert it directly instead of waiting around for blood, guts and feathers.
I have a marvelous prospectus for Labrador Retriever Ranching if anyone is interested.
I seem to recall that the process was somewhere around 90% of the energy put in is recovered. However, they are getting a refined product and reducing landfill and natural waste products (but I do not know how that efficiency number included the final product cost).
Speaking of decentralized technology: as a poor engineering undergrad I worked on a waste biomass-to-oil project which could provide small agricultural villages enough diesel grade oil to run as many large generators as they could come up with. All done with a handful of discarded 55 gallon drums... And this was in the late 70s.
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