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Famous Atheist Now Believes in God
NY Newsday ^ | 12/9/04 | RICHARD N. OSTLING

Posted on 12/10/2004 7:08:12 AM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo

NEW YORK -- A British philosophy professor who has been a leading champion of atheism for more than a half-century has changed his mind. He now believes in God -- more or less -- based on scientific evidence, and says so on a video released Thursday.

At age 81, after decades of insisting belief is a mistake, Antony Flew has concluded that some sort of intelligence or first cause must have created the universe. A super-intelligence is the only good explanation for the origin of life and the complexity of nature, Flew said in a telephone interview from England.

(Excerpt) Read more at nynewsday.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: antonyflew; atheism; atheist; atheists; convert; evolution; god; intelligentdesign; ssdd
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To: pnome

What would you concider to be proof of the ressurection of Christ?


181 posted on 12/10/2004 9:23:23 AM PST by Protagoras (Christmas is not a secular holiday)
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To: Protagoras

"What would you concider to be proof of the ressurection of Christ?"

Call me "Doubting Thomas". I require the same amount of proof. Not simply the word of an apostle. Which is all the proof you have.


182 posted on 12/10/2004 9:31:48 AM PST by pnome
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To: joesnuffy

You believe Satan can be saved? I'm so grateful sometimes for the things I don't know.

Didn't Satan decide not to worship Man at the command of God, and as such was thrown from Heaven?

I know that the story of Satan is from Apocryphal, more correctly non-canonical, books.

Is the most correct answer, we just don't know, and Satan is who he is and it will never be different?


183 posted on 12/10/2004 9:33:07 AM PST by RinaseaofDs (The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

Even when an atheist gets closer to the pearly gates....he finds God.......


184 posted on 12/10/2004 9:34:24 AM PST by Route101
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To: All
Faith is the proof that God exist.

Without Faith, he does not exist.

185 posted on 12/10/2004 9:34:37 AM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: pnome

"I AM against minimum wage laws. Even some discrimination laws."

Then your argument is not against Christians at all. you are just stereotyping and nitpicking. Your against non-anarchists of any stripe defining boundaries of civility.

"When you drive drunk, you put others right to life at great risk. Not so when I smoke pot in my home."

Plenty of drunk drivers would disagree... they claim that they are safer. And besides, you are destroying plenty when you use dangerous drugs.

btw, you DO recognize that you are also imposing morality when you imply your 'right to life' allows you to interfere with the actions of others. that is imposing morality.
what makes the rule 'don't hurt others' more valid than any other rule? I'll put you down for "imposing morality in some cases but not in others".


186 posted on 12/10/2004 9:40:11 AM PST by WOSG (Liberating Iraq - http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com)
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To: pnome
I require the same amount of proof.

Huh? As what?

Not simply the word of an apostle.

Lots of witnesses, but that is neither here nor there. I didn't ask you what was inadequate for you, I asked what would be.

Which is all the proof you have.

I never claimed proof.

Now, what precisely, would be the proof you would require for the resurrection?

187 posted on 12/10/2004 9:40:48 AM PST by Protagoras (Christmas is not a secular holiday)
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To: pnome

oh wow.

So because some people have a bigotted, false, and stereotyped views of Christians, picking on them for doing what every other part of the political spectrum does (ie advocate for their beliefs in various contexts), the blame lies on Christian heads, not on the anti-Christian zealots?!?

Yeah ... DEFINITELY lay off the pot, man. It's getting to your brain.


188 posted on 12/10/2004 9:44:13 AM PST by WOSG (Liberating Iraq - http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com)
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To: Protagoras
What would you concider to be proof of the ressurection of Christ?

Witnessing it myself through the window in a time machine.

189 posted on 12/10/2004 9:46:53 AM PST by Killing Time
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To: WOSG
Yeah ... DEFINITELY lay off the pot, man. It's getting to your brain.


190 posted on 12/10/2004 9:46:58 AM PST by Protagoras (Christmas is not a secular holiday)
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To: Killing Time
Witnessing it myself through the window in a time machine.

You get extra points for honesty if you say that.

191 posted on 12/10/2004 9:47:55 AM PST by Protagoras (Christmas is not a secular holiday)
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To: WOSG

Ok let me clarify here. because i think you guys got the wrong impression about me.

I am not picking on Christians, I am not saying it's all thier fault or whatever. I was answering a question by another poster about why some people attack Christians. I gave my opinion on why I thought that.

I do NOT think all Christians are trying to make me be a Christian (though I think it is part of your religion to win converts). I DO think thier are some Christian groups out there that give you guys a bad name by pushing for laws that will make people follow Christian morals.

That's all I'm saying.


192 posted on 12/10/2004 9:49:34 AM PST by pnome
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To: Matchett-PI

"If at some point you need 'faith' to glue your conclusions to your axioms, isn't it fair for a use-reason-only skeptic to call 'foul'?"

Is it a "leap of faith" to believe that others beside yourself have a mind, and aren't just preprogrammed robots?

---

No, but that form of argument is a 'argument by authority'... okay, so everybody has a mind.
How does that help prove anything?

------
"What would you call a "skeptic" who questions your sanity for "believing" such a thing? Sane? Logical? Rational?"

This is a process question, not about 'sanity' or conclusions. A skeptic would not call 'proven' any argument that has 'leaps' in it.
So, my question really was asking this:
You've made a point, but do you really think your point would convince a skeptic?

that was all.
I think the answer is no, unless you fill in the steps of the argument. what I inferred from you was:
1. lots of people believe in the afterlife.
2. these people are sane and reasonable.
3. therefore the belief is sane and reasonable,
4. since its sane and reasonable, it is true.

... is that your argument?


193 posted on 12/10/2004 9:50:01 AM PST by WOSG (Liberating Iraq - http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com)
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To: brownsfan

I was thinking the same thing.


194 posted on 12/10/2004 9:50:17 AM PST by Muzzle_em
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To: Protagoras
Sorry mate, but there is no contemporaneous documentary proof or even much in the way of oblique reference to Christ's existence. The earliest extant fragments of New Testament text are more than 100 years after the event.

It doesn't matter if you have faith.

195 posted on 12/10/2004 9:50:24 AM PST by Killing Time
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To: Getready
Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."

Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
196 posted on 12/10/2004 9:50:38 AM PST by Scythian
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To: Protagoras

The same proof that Thomas got. That's what I was trying to say.


197 posted on 12/10/2004 9:51:12 AM PST by pnome
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To: pnome

Fair enough ... and sorry for the abusive comment...

(although if you *are* a user, i'd still suggest clear-mind-natural-high living :-) )


198 posted on 12/10/2004 9:53:13 AM PST by WOSG (Liberating Iraq - http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

At age 81 it sounds like he is cramming for finals.


199 posted on 12/10/2004 9:54:57 AM PST by N. Theknow (Ladle gulls shut nod stopper torque wet strainers!)
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To: WOSG

Are you for real? LOL


200 posted on 12/10/2004 9:58:24 AM PST by Matchett-PI (All DemocRATS are either religious moral relativists, libertines or anarchists.)
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