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Famous Atheist Now Believes in God
NY Newsday ^ | 12/9/04 | RICHARD N. OSTLING

Posted on 12/10/2004 7:08:12 AM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo

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1 posted on 12/10/2004 7:08:12 AM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: Michael_Michaelangelo

Helooooo... McFly.......


3 posted on 12/10/2004 7:09:59 AM PST by dubie
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To: AndrewC; bondserv; LiteKeeper; Dataman

Ping


4 posted on 12/10/2004 7:10:18 AM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo (The best theory is not ipso facto a good theory.)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

He has a good argument no doubt. However, it's a big step from his idea of God to the one you go to church to try to talk to.


5 posted on 12/10/2004 7:10:41 AM PST by pnome
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
Flew said. "My whole life has been guided by the principle of Plato's Socrates: Follow the evidence, wherever it leads."
6 posted on 12/10/2004 7:12:53 AM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo (The best theory is not ipso facto a good theory.)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

"At age 81, after decades of insisting belief is a mistake..."

Hmmmm. He's 81, not much time left on the calendar. Could this be a bit of philosophical CYA?


7 posted on 12/10/2004 7:13:17 AM PST by brownsfan (Post No Bills)
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To: pnome
...it's a big step from his idea of God to the one you go to church to try to talk to.

Yeah, it really is.

BTW, what religion has that kind of god? Could you name it?

Dan
Biblical Christianity web site
What Is Biblical Christianity?
Biblical Christianity BLOG

8 posted on 12/10/2004 7:15:26 AM PST by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: Michael_Michaelangelo

My first thought was about Madelein Murray O'Hair. I'm sure she's a believer by now.


10 posted on 12/10/2004 7:15:52 AM PST by abishai
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To: brownsfan

you took the words right out of my post. CYA time.


11 posted on 12/10/2004 7:15:52 AM PST by camle (keep your mind open and somebody will fill it with something for you))
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To: brownsfan
Hmmmm. He's 81, not much time left on the calendar. Could this be a bit of philosophical CYA?

I've often wondered what percentage of atheists would pray to God if their airplane was going down.

12 posted on 12/10/2004 7:16:51 AM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo (The best theory is not ipso facto a good theory.)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

I'll tell you what: there are only two kinds of people who could indulge in the kinds of remarks I'm seeing in this thread about some poor devil who's trying to make an effort to understand the Almighty after years of pigheaded disbelief. Christians (of course) and atheists.


13 posted on 12/10/2004 7:18:16 AM PST by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

Hey, Mr. Flew, I got one word for you... DUH!!!


14 posted on 12/10/2004 7:18:58 AM PST by 14erClimb
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

Sometimes I wonder why Jesus Christ is attacked with such viciousness. I don't know the answer. Maybe it is because people know deep inside there maybe something right about it but would rather attack it than think about it or change. Maybe it is because becoming a Christian is so against everything we now believe in our culture (being cool, materialism, it is all about me, PC politics, etc.). Maybe it is because some live their entire lives in a set of beliefs and near the end of it look back and see it all mattered for nothing and are pissed.

Sometimes the concept of hell gets people worked up. The argument on "How can a good God cast people into hell when they have lived a pretty good life" is false logic. Hell is a place where God is absent. This is exactly what the people who rejected God all their lives wanted. The "pit" of hell maybe a very comfortable place where everyone who rejected God their entire lives must now reside knowing they had lived their lives in a lie. That they had wasted it all. That actually may be worse than a guy with pitchfork.

God has given us all the "free will" to chose. God has sent his only son to die for us, to suffer for our sins and to show us the way. God could have easily made a bunch of robots that would do everything he said but instead loved us enough for us to make our own decisions. I tell people to make their own decision after they have reviewed the evidence. After all, Jesus Christ's resurrection is either the supreme fact in the history of mankind or a gigantic hoax. If Christ's resurrection is true -- people ignore its implications at their own peril. If not -- Christianity is the biggest fraud in the history of the world and should be easy enough to disprove. If they believe it is a hoax, then they must take an honest look at the evidence. And the evidence is overwhelming...


15 posted on 12/10/2004 7:25:37 AM PST by 2banana (They want to die for Islam and we want to kill them)
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To: valuesvaluesvalues

Yes, but one must learn to crawl before they can run.


16 posted on 12/10/2004 7:27:23 AM PST by jrestrepo
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

As the saying goes, there's no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole.


17 posted on 12/10/2004 7:28:58 AM PST by hsrazorback1 (To get what you had, do what you did.)
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To: brownsfan

My thoughts to, but, how many has he influenced to lead a life of secular desperation.


18 posted on 12/10/2004 7:29:10 AM PST by marty60
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
So next week when another even 'better' argument 'against the existence of God' appears....

He will change his mind again?...

The bible says ..even the demons 'believe' and tremble.....

Satan knows of God's existence and power as FACT....he also knows who the Holy Spirit is and who Jesus Christ the Son of the living God is and that Jesus is God.

Satan also knows full well what is ultimately in store for him and his herd of demons.....

Yet.....this knowledge has not changed his heart one iota.
19 posted on 12/10/2004 7:29:37 AM PST by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: abishai
My first thought was about Madelein Murray O'Hair. I'm sure she's a believer by now.

I understand that Arafat is a believer now as well.

20 posted on 12/10/2004 7:31:11 AM PST by Theo
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To: TonyRo76

Sorry if I offended you with my comment. I was mearly trying to point out that there is a difference here. Between the god that Flew envisions and the Christian one.

Again, sorry if my syntax offended. I have a large amount of respect for the Christian faith, though I am not a follower.


21 posted on 12/10/2004 7:31:22 AM PST by pnome
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To: hsrazorback1

My Mother told me that growing up. As I see men reach the end of life, death brings them so much closer to God. I don't have to wait for death to understand God.


22 posted on 12/10/2004 7:31:40 AM PST by bmwcyle (I wear sleepwear therefore I think (When they are off I am single minded))
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To: Elsie; AndrewC; jennyp; lockeliberty; RadioAstronomer; LiteKeeper; Fester Chugabrew; ...

Pingdom!


23 posted on 12/10/2004 7:31:58 AM PST by bondserv (Alignment is critical! [Check out my profile page])
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

Popular radio host David Brudnoy was a lifelong agnostic but in an interview on Tuesday, 2 days before he passed, he professed belief in God.


24 posted on 12/10/2004 7:34:31 AM PST by Semper Paratus
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To: pnome

every journey begins with a small step. Remember what the
parable of the mustard seed teaches.first one must have
enough faith to believe in God.Then God can give the increase.when I was dead to sin I had no basis for Truth.
WhenI first believed-- I was not sure what I believed-but
I was fed that spiritual milk -before I grew enough to try
meat.


25 posted on 12/10/2004 7:34:49 AM PST by StonyBurk
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

When a person steps in the right direction, you don't beat him over the head for not stepping far enough. I hope the people on this thread mocking Dr. Flew are not parents.


26 posted on 12/10/2004 7:34:58 AM PST by Taliesan (The power of the State to do good is the power of the State to do evil.)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

A belief in God has to precede a belief in Jesus. Once a man comes to the reality that there is a God, he can then accept that he is a sinner and unacceptable to God. Only then can a man realize he needs help from God and then is heart is open to accept Jesus as his savior. Its a process. For some the process takes seconds, for others years.


27 posted on 12/10/2004 7:35:27 AM PST by Raycpa (Alias, VRWC_minion,)
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To: valuesvaluesvalues
This story was posted a couple times yesterday.

Then why did you repost it?

28 posted on 12/10/2004 7:36:30 AM PST by WildTurkey
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To: 2banana

"Sometimes I wonder why Jesus Christ is attacked with such viciousness."

Not sure, but I think a lot has to do with accountability and judgment, combined with denial. If you deny Him, or attack Him, then you can rationalize sinfulness and bad behavior that can be so satisfying on a base level.


29 posted on 12/10/2004 7:36:40 AM PST by MayflowerMadam
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

Since I doubt the good professor uncovered any additional INFORMATION to lead him to reverse himself on such an important question, it is clear that the fork in the road between theism and atheism is not a matter of education, it is a matter of some earlier premise, often at the sub-cognitive level.


30 posted on 12/10/2004 7:37:26 AM PST by Taliesan (The power of the State to do good is the power of the State to do evil.)
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To: bondserv

Thanks for the ping!


31 posted on 12/10/2004 7:38:10 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Taliesan; Michael_Michaelangelo; Alamo-Girl; marron
When a person steps in the right direction, you don't beat him over the head for not stepping far enough.

Indeed. That would be both unreasonable and uncharitable.

32 posted on 12/10/2004 7:38:17 AM PST by betty boop
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
Yet biologists' investigation of DNA "has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce (life), that intelligence must have been involved," Flew says in the new video, "Has Science Discovered God?" .

On the one hand he is accepting a God that is involved in daily adjustments to create life while on the other hand he is a Deist that rejects the notion that God is involved in day to day affairs. He apparently has not noticed his inconsistency.

33 posted on 12/10/2004 7:39:40 AM PST by Raycpa (Alias, VRWC_minion,)
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To: valuesvaluesvalues

Incremental persuasion; how many come to Christ. We can pray for him to trust in Jesus Christ for salvation, and I am.


34 posted on 12/10/2004 7:39:58 AM PST by bondserv (Alignment is critical! [Check out my profile page])
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To: pnome
"...it's a big step from his idea of God to the one you go to church to try to talk to. ..."

????????

Christians don't have to "go" anywhere --- they ARE "the church".

35 posted on 12/10/2004 7:40:22 AM PST by Matchett-PI (All DemocRATS are either religious moral relativists, libertines or anarchists.)
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To: BibChr

Maybe we can all go to your personal website and find out.


36 posted on 12/10/2004 7:40:37 AM PST by Protagoras (Christmas is not a secular holiday)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

Pihg


37 posted on 12/10/2004 7:41:47 AM PST by VNam68 (God bless our soldiers!!)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

Ping


38 posted on 12/10/2004 7:42:07 AM PST by VNam68 (God bless our soldiers!!)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
Actually, he is simply approving again Darwin's theory. Darwin was not an atheist. He thought that evolution was like a tree with many branches; however, at its base was a single cell that was "created." That is, he believed in the creator and, hence, is also a member of the "intelligent design" school.

The real atheists began later. Also, remember that Darwin's writings occurred before genes and their ramifications were well known. I can not remember him quoted on any "gene" problem.

Militant atheism is a part and parcel of the dominant religion of our times--leftism. Its biggest proponents are Richard Dawkins et al. If you have a chance to review their arguments, you will find they declare their faith on a leap to faith a la Martin Luther. Dawkins portrays Darwin as the secular saint of secular leftism and implies he was an atheist which he was not.

39 posted on 12/10/2004 7:43:08 AM PST by shrinkermd
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To: Protagoras

"Find out"... what?


40 posted on 12/10/2004 7:43:51 AM PST by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

I never met an Atheist on the battlefield.

Semper Fi,
Kelly


41 posted on 12/10/2004 7:44:44 AM PST by kellynla (U.S.M.C. 1st Battalion,5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Div. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

Mr. Flew:

I am very glad that at age 81 you have come to the same conclusion billions of people have arrived at already. Welcome!!!

God bless,

Dennis

P.S. Check my tagline!


42 posted on 12/10/2004 7:45:24 AM PST by DennisR (Look around - there are countless unmistakable hints that God exists)
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To: betty boop
Indeed. That would be both unreasonable and uncharitable.

"It's my way or the highway." The "anointed" on earth simply can't leave all this up to God.

He is in charge of all things on earth, big and small, except of course this, in this matter, he somehow can't handle it and needs these anointed to whip these poor souls into shape even if they are going the right direction on their journey.

43 posted on 12/10/2004 7:45:24 AM PST by Protagoras (Christmas is not a secular holiday)
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To: Taliesan
"When a person steps in the right direction, you don't beat him over the head for not stepping far enough"

Or as Dr. Steve Brown would likely say, "If you see a dog playing cards, you don't criticize his game."

44 posted on 12/10/2004 7:45:25 AM PST by Matchett-PI (All DemocRATS are either religious moral relativists, libertines or anarchists.)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

Good for him. Glad to see others, however late in life, come around. :)


45 posted on 12/10/2004 7:45:35 AM PST by SoFloFreeper
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To: StonyBurk

Sorry, you might be able to convince me that a "god", as we can best describe it, exists. Though, there is no proof that there is only one such "god". You will not be able to convince me that Christianity is the only correct version of that god. Yes, I've read C.S. Lewis.

Perhaps the Greeks were correct? Or maybe the Aztecs. Or more likely, niether. It is much more likely that if Flew is correct, we have no real way of possibly conceiving it, or it's purpose. Also, there is no afterlife, no heaven, no hell and certainly no devil.


46 posted on 12/10/2004 7:45:58 AM PST by pnome
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To: Matchett-PI

"Christians don't have to "go" anywhere --- they ARE "the church"."

Sorry, my mistake. Again, I am not a Christian, so please excuse my ignorance.


47 posted on 12/10/2004 7:48:09 AM PST by pnome
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
A super-intelligence is the only good explanation for the origin of life and the complexity of nature, Flew said in a telephone interview from England.

Well, he's made a start, anyway.

48 posted on 12/10/2004 7:48:31 AM PST by SuziQ (W STILL the President)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
It took this professor eight decades to figure out what the guy behind the counter at your average 7-11 knows intuitively.
49 posted on 12/10/2004 7:49:37 AM PST by Malesherbes
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To: Mr Ramsbotham
Flew said he's best labeled a deist like Thomas Jefferson, whose God was not actively involved in people's lives.

"I'm thinking of a God very different from the God of the Christian and far and away from the God of Islam, because both are depicted as omnipotent Oriental despots, cosmic Saddam Husseins," he said. "It could be a person in the sense of a being that has intelligence and a purpose, I suppose."

Yes if you take Jefferson out of context rather than look at his Christian life practice he may at time 'appear' to be just another deist....

When he says that The God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Jesus Christ are 'depicted as omnipotent Oriental despots...cosmic Saddam Husseins?

By who?....those who promote Christianity and Islam?....He sounds like just another atheist relativist...making moral equivalence statements between Islam and Christianity..surprised he did not take on Judaism while he was at it....must have chickened out on that course...

His new opinion as a deist is nearly as worthless and misleading as his opinion as an atheist

He appears to be anything but some poor devil struggling with finding God

But his conversion and salvation are up to Jesus and the Holy Spirit...if God wills him to be saved he will be....he ain't dead yet so who knows...perhaps by the grace of God he will...(be saved that is).

But when he preaches error or mistakes facts in order to bolster his own opinions.. he needs (as we all do) to be challenged

imo

50 posted on 12/10/2004 7:50:23 AM PST by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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