Governor picks simpler Bay Bridge plan Stylish design to be abandoned in favor of skyway...

San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 12/10/4 | Phillip Matier, Andrew Ross

[WildTurkey]

I am still waiting for you to comment on your previous statement.

All the costs should be paid out of tolls. In NO case should the State be involved at all except to arrange the financing for the amount necessary to build a minimialist bridge on the grounds of earthquake repair. Anything beyond that benefits the _________ Area alone and should be funded locally.

Select one.

A) Bay
B) Redding

[WildTurkey]

BS. You might as well similarly deride the Golden Gate Bridge.

Interesting. When you talk about other bridges, you say that they should be funded by tolls and local resources ONLY but when it comes to the Sundial Bridge you insist on using State and Federal monies in a fiscally uncontrolled project.

[Malsua]

I should have clarified, the cheapest materials that exceed code.

I remember watching those rescues on the collapsed highway and the bridge that went. I remember that red car that went over. I don't remember if the person that made it.

Sorry if I left the wrong impression.

[Veto!]

A friend of mine was ONE car back from the span that collapsed in '89. And a friend in construction believes that virtually nothing is holding up the San Mateo span now. I'm all in favor of safe bridges, don't give a hoot what they look like anymore. A walk across the majestic Golden Gate is an aesthetic experience to treasure, however.

[Carry_Okie]

The Sundial Bridge was funded by (in millions):

The McConnell Foundation	$8.6
Redding Redevelopment Agency	4
Federal Highway Administration	3.4
State of California	8

While I agree with you that State and Federal monies should not have been involved, OVER HALF THE FUNDING WAS PRIVATE. Redding got a deal.

Here is a typical review:

Sundial Bridge: Redding, California

Bold vision, strong action and commitment were required for Redding's second international bridge. Several years ago a partnership was developed to create a unique bridge to physically and metaphorically link the Redding, California community to its multi-use trail, arboretum, museum and public open spaces along the Sacramento River.

The partners, The McConnell Foundation, Turtle Bay Exploration Park and the City of Redding invited world renown engineer, architect and artist Santiago Calatrava to refine this vision and bring it to fruition.

The Sundial Bridge is anything but an understatement, either in its breathtaking appearance or price tag which left many gasping for air. It was opened on July 4, 2004 at a cost of $24 million. Fortunately, the bulk of the funding came from the McConnell Foundation, with the State of California contributing $8 million and the City contributing $4 million.

	The lighted deck of the Sundial Bridge

It celebrates human creativity and ingenuity, as well as a commitment to protecting its river setting. The glass and granite span evokes a sense of weightlessness and the translucent, non-skid decking provides for spectacular viewing at night.

In addition to being a functional work of art, the Sundial Bridge is a technical marvel as well. The cable-stayed structure has an inclined, 217-foot pylon constructed of 580 tons of steel. The deck is made up of 200 tons of glass and granite and is supported by more than 4,300 feet of cable. The structure is stabilized by a steel truss, and rests on a foundation of more than 115 tons of steel and 1,900 cubic yards of concrete.

The Sundial Bridge was Calatrava's first free-standing bridge in the United States. During its construction Calatrava has gained additional notoriety for his work at the Athens Olympics and PATH project at the World Trade Center site in New York City.

For more information contact Terry Hanson, Manager of Community Projects, City of Redding, 777 Cypress Avenue, Redding, CA 96001 (530) 225-4009 or thanson@ci.redding.ca.us; www.visitredding.com

[WildTurkey]

Further, if you were the engineer and were told which materials to use, would you accept liability for the project?

I am an engineer and engineers write contracts that fix the materials BEFORE construction starts. Only liberal elites write blank-check contracts like Turtle Bay did. Of course, since they are using taxpayers money, they care less how much it costs. They want the best that tax money can buy.

[Carry_Okie]

Interesting. When you talk about other bridges, you say that they should be funded by tolls and local resources ONLY but when it comes to the Sundial Bridge you insist on using State and Federal monies in a fiscally uncontrolled project.

If you have to rely upon deliberately misconstruing what I write, then you have no interest in an honest debate. Our disagreement is about whether artistic projects bring financial benefits to a community. We have no disagreement with how they should be funded. This is about whether they are worth the money. Some are, some aren't.

[WildTurkey]

While I agree with you that State and Federal monies should not have been involved,

Thank you. My point has been made. Now to watch the last two minutes of the Kings game.

[WildTurkey]

Then your position on the Bay Bridge is that Arnold was wrong for deleting the "artistic" addition and we should have used state monies for that "artistic" addition since artwork brings revenues to the region.

[WildTurkey]

This is about whether they are worth the money. Some are, some aren't.

No. My point all along was that this was a Liberal Elite pork project funded with state and federal monies.

The fact that it looks out of place in the wooded setting and the park had to lay off over half of its staff to complete the bridge are bonus negatives.

[nkycincinnatikid]

Dammn , I know that bridge, its on the way home from the bowling alley

[Malsua]

I should have clarified, the cheapest materials that exceed code.

I remember watching those rescues on the collapsed highway and the bridge that went. I remember that red car that went over. I don't remember if the person that made it.

Sorry if I left the wrong impression.

[Carry_Okie]

I am an engineer and engineers write contracts that fix the materials BEFORE construction starts.

I am a project engineer who has created processes so valuable that such ass-covering bureaucracy was more expensive than it was worth, projects that have paid their cost in three months. The cost of lost opportunity for profits not earned while paying for drawings, meetings, and exective approval loops was greater than the $740K cost of the project.

Only liberal elites write blank-check contracts like Turtle Bay did.

Apparently you've never heard of time-to market cost.

Of course, since they are using taxpayers money, they care less how much it costs. They want the best that tax money can buy.

One more time idiot, I don't approve of using State or Federal funds for such projects. If the citizens of Redding want to spend the money because they will get a return, they are entitled to take that risk and fire their leadership if it turns out to be a turkey. Given that they spent only $4 million dollars, the investment of $7 million in one local hotel will more than pay off that investment.

A 45% payback the first year (it's more now that I've noted the contribution of the McConnell Foundation) of a $7 million investment against a $16 million total public investment is a very good return. A 175% payback of $7 million in subsequent local private investment on a LOCAL public investment of $4 million the first year is unheard of. A Find me another local public works project with that kind of payback. A plain bridge would not have done it.

[WildTurkey]

Apparently you've never heard of time-to market cost.

And neither did Turtle Bay. They had numerous delays to the project due to the "Artist/Engineer" in addition to the the cost over-runs.

[WildTurkey]

Apparently you've never heard of time-to market cost.

Printed in the NYT. "(the founders of the) bridge — whose delays and rising costs have been chronicled in detail in the local press — are elitist. In an area where the child poverty rate is 21 percent, almost five percentage points higher than the national average, many agree with Mr. Nash, who calls the bridge "the epitome of waste — you can't even drive a car on it."

[WildTurkey]

Apparently you've never heard of time-to market cost.

I surely have. Apparently the Liberal Elites in Redding haven't.

"The Sundial Bridge will link the Turtle Bay Museum on the river's south shore with the McConnell Arboretum on the north shore when it opens in mid-2004. Turtle Bay Exploration Park officials blame the organization's early financial woes on bridge delays that have also pushed back development at the arboretum."

redding.com article.

[WildTurkey]

NCN Staff - The Sundial Bridge isn't just a visual masterpiece. Some people are saying it doubles as a wild ride but builders say the newly completed suspension bridge is moving just like it should and no one should be alarmed. Bob Morrison, Bridge Building Manager, says the movement is normal because suspension bridges are usually longer, more lightweight, and more flexible than other bridges and when the bridge opened on Sunday, more than 1,500 people crossed at one time, causing a more noticeable movement but Morrison says, “human and wind dynamics are all a part of bridge building, and they pose no danger.” He also says there is no structural problem with the bridge and they would not allow people out here if there were.

[WildTurkey]

How the Sundial Bridge woes visitors to Redding (Not!)

http://moofie.lastcoolnameleft.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=98


This past weekend, Barb and I drove to Oroville, CA for my grandparents' 60th wedding anniversary. (Uh, WOW. That's really quite an accomplishment! The marriage, not the drive...) We contemplated flying, but decided that the extra flexibility of having our own car outweighed the time advantages of driving. Basically, if you assume that a hour and a half flight takes about five or six hours of door-to-door travel time, and eight hour car trip isn't too bad. And we got to see pretty things on our way back.
We drove down Friday night. Barb managed to find a relatively traffic-free route out of Portland, and we made good time. Grammy let us in the door, and we basically collapsed into our air mattress on the living room floor.

I awoke to the sound of family cooking breakfast. YAY!

Saturday, we went swimming, and built a puzzle. My aunt K brought her son L up with her, and he and I had a good time playing in the water.

That night, we all went to this little Italian joint for dinner. Pictures here!

Sunday, Barb and I went down to Sacramento to visit with my mom's mother. We went out to the Crocker Art Museum, which was a really nice piece of architecture with some neat paintings in it (and WOW! What a dance floor in the ballroom!). We then went to see Riding Giants at Tower Theater (the original!), which was a beautiful movie. Then we went out to a tapas restaurant, which (with the exception of the rather dull potatoes and the mingy serving of a really nice goat cheese with wine) was very tasty and pleasant. We finally took Gram back home, and I spent half an hour showing her how to use her WebTV (with which she might be reading this missive, I hope!) and some basics on her mobile phone.

Technology is fun.

Monday, we played in the Feather River (which was stupendously cold) and watched the salmon run. That was fun (but stinky). That afternoon, we had a barbecue birthday celebration for several cousins. The tri-tip roast was, as I expected, delicious. There's something about meat grilled on my granddad's stagecoach-shaped grill. It just tastes better.

Tuesday, Barb and I woke up pretty stuffy. We had breakfast and piled into the car, and drove back home. We skipped the Sundial Bridge in Redding, which we were pretty interested in seeing, because we were both feeling pretty rocky and wanted to get home.

We rolled into Portland, and ate Lebanese food at Nicholas. Yum yum.

If I can just get my sinuses to drain, I'll be doing just fine. I've never in my life had my ears stuff up like this. Truly gruesome.


Posted on Wednesday, September 08 @ 16:59:24 CDT by moofie