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Reason Mag article on Free State Project
http://www.reason.com/0412/fe.bd.revolt.shtml ^

Posted on 12/10/2004 6:19:47 PM PST by Dada Orwell

"Revolt of the Porcupines"

This is the latest media coverage of the Free State Project, our movement which is working to bring 20,000 liberty lovers to New Hampshire, reduce government, etc.


TOPICS: Government; Miscellaneous; Politics/Elections; US: New Hampshire
KEYWORDS: free; freedom; freestateproject; fsp; liberty; nh; porcupines; project; reason; republic; state

1 posted on 12/10/2004 6:19:47 PM PST by Dada Orwell
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To: Dada Orwell

where do jobs for the free staters come from?


2 posted on 12/10/2004 6:21:04 PM PST by Texas_Jarhead
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To: Dada Orwell

Stoners unite!


3 posted on 12/10/2004 6:21:25 PM PST by Drango (Those who advocate robbing (taxing) Peter to pay Paul...will always have the support of Paul.)
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To: Dada Orwell

Good luck with that. Forming your own commune sounds like a great plan to me.


4 posted on 12/10/2004 6:27:19 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: Dada Orwell

Great in principle, hopeless in practice. The FSP has so much clout that Governor Benson, who was a Libertarian in all but name and who welcomed the Porcupines with open arms, was defeated in 2004.


5 posted on 12/10/2004 6:46:26 PM PST by Politicalities (http://www.politicalities.com)
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To: Texas_Jarhead

Of couse they create them....


6 posted on 12/10/2004 6:54:40 PM PST by Cardician (This is a Republic not a democray, let us keep it that way.)
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To: Dada Orwell
The article points out that NH has no income tax, and no state sales tax, and no seat belt law. However, liquor is only dispensed in state-run stores.

On a trip from Maine back to Connecticut 1n 1998, I stopped to pick up some spirits as I understood that the liquor was cheaper than it was at the package stores in Connecticut. (I had two sisters whose husbands to be went up to NH to purchase the reception booze for the discount. CT state troopers would also try to arrest people who did same.)

Anyway, at the checkout, I had only a single bottle of Clan MacGregor (the prices were no longer so great), and after I showed my driver's license, they asked my wife for her ID. My wife, a Canadian citizeness (Alberta), was 20 at the time, and in Alberta she owned the liquor license for her own reception as the age there is 18. When I pointed out that I was buying the alcohol, not her, they told me that the law was that EVERYBODY at the checkout had to be 21, or no sale. So, in this case, a man, well over 21, cannot bring his 20 year-old wife into the liquor store with him. So, even NH has a little nanny-state in it.
7 posted on 12/10/2004 7:17:44 PM PST by sittnick (There's no salvation in politics.)
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To: sittnick
CT state troopers would also try to arrest people who did same.)

Here's the rest of the story....

.... NH Gov. Meldrim Thomson, when advised that CT state police had undercover units sitting in NH Liquor store parking lots using binoculars to identify the license plates of CT vehicles into which they observed a box of liquor being placed for the trip south, which were then called in to authorities back in CT to be picked up when they crossed the border into their home state, immediately directed his state police to arrest the CT undercover cops.

What ensued was a brief but intense period of negotiation between Thomson and his CT counterpart. The result was the CT undercover agents were released, and CT agreed to never send them back to spy on Nutmeg State customers in NH Liquor Store parking lots.

Those were the days when being a Soveriegn State meant something!

8 posted on 12/10/2004 7:31:50 PM PST by longshadow
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To: sittnick

"So, even NH has a little nanny-state in it."

It's worse than that, Sit. During a vacation to visit a son who was working up East, the family stopped at a freeway NH restaurant on a Saturday evening. I ordered a bacon cheeseburger with mustard. The waitress said, "We don't have any mustard. If you had been here on Thursday, well, we had mustard on Thursday."

Amazing but true story...truth stranger than fiction...gives me the willies just to think about it. Texas and NH are part of the same country?


9 posted on 12/10/2004 7:54:55 PM PST by Dark Glasses and Corncob Pipe (14, 15, 16...whatever!)
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To: Dark Glasses and Corncob Pipe
I ordered a bacon cheeseburger with mustard. The waitress said, "We don't have any mustard. If you had been here on Thursday, well, we had mustard on Thursday."

The Northeast is more ketchup oriented (the Heinz influence?)

However, this problem works both ways. Since moving to Illinois, I find that many joints do not have any butter on the premises (they feature oleomargarine or "spread"), some doughnut shops do not have any dairy product for the coffee (whey-based powder packets instead), and if you ask for oil and vinegar for your salad, even at a supposedly fine restaurant, the waitress just might have no idea what you are talking about!
10 posted on 12/10/2004 8:15:14 PM PST by sittnick (There's no salvation in politics.)
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To: Dada Orwell

So whats the difference between:

libertarians moving into NH and instead of accomodating themselves to NH insisting NH accomodate to them

and

foreigners moving into the US and instead of accomodating themselves to the US insisting the US accomodate to them

or

City (Blue) folk moving into country neighborhoods (Red) and instead of accomodating themselves to the country insisting the country neighborhood accomodate to them?


11 posted on 12/10/2004 9:11:52 PM PST by KrisKrinkle
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To: Drango
Stoners unite!

It is a dang shame what those people have done to NH.

12 posted on 12/10/2004 9:14:02 PM PST by Howlin (W, Still the President)
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To: Howlin
It is a dang shame what those people have done to NH.

You mean people who actually love and want freedom moving to the "Live Free or Die" state?

Imagine that.

13 posted on 12/10/2004 9:17:33 PM PST by Hank Rearden (Never allow anyone who could only get a government job attempt to tell you how to run your life.)
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To: Hank Rearden

That sounds really neat, doesn't it?

If you had been there years ago and go there now, you'd see what they have done; trashy.


14 posted on 12/10/2004 9:27:26 PM PST by Howlin (W, Still the President)
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To: Howlin

Whoever trashed the place up, it's not porcupines, because hardly any have moved yet.


15 posted on 12/10/2004 9:49:09 PM PST by A.J.Armitage (http://calvinist-libertarians.blogspot.com/)
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To: A.J.Armitage

Hey for all who don't like the Free State Project plan or what not...I'm not going to argue with you; some of your objections are reasonable.

Unfortunately there are no perfect places left to go if you want to live in freedom. And the number of patriots who've moved (about 100) is not yet sufficient to sigificantly impact NH politics.

But this is the best option anyone's ever come up with; those who are persuing it are action oriented rather than armchair whiners. I moved in August and I think it was the best thing I've ever done, win lose or draw.

I'm honored to think that some of you have such a high opinion of us you think that 100 of us could swing an election but in actuality we are not yet a major player or a major topic of discussion here and won't be for some time. In fact the longer we are here the less we will be free staters, the more we will simply be scrappy gun owners and tax protesters.


16 posted on 12/11/2004 10:03:49 AM PST by Dada Orwell (www.freestateproject.org)
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To: Texas_Jarhead

Jarhead wrote:

"where do jobs for the free staters come from"

Hi Jar... depends. I commute to Boston for work but spend most of my money inside NH which works real nice for the Granite Staters. I wont' even buy gas in Boston LOL.

A disproportionate number of porcupines however seem to bring telecommutable jobs or small businesses with them.

One Porcupine (Robert Gibson) has started a company here without leaving florida; it employs three full timers in Manchester plus a few contractors. It's called Corbadex I think.

Here are a couple other links for small businesses and charities that are operated by free staters who've moved here:

http://www.custom-tech.biz/ - computer repair biz just established
http://www.lsfund.org/ - helps NH kids escape public school (total liberated this year: 5)

BTW if you are a marine then thanks for your service!

Liberty in Your Lifetime
www.FreeStateProject.org


17 posted on 12/11/2004 10:14:24 AM PST by Dada Orwell (www.freestateproject.org)
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To: Dada Orwell

drango wrote:

"Stoners unite!"

Ah I wish that were so...unfortuately most people who favor drug freedoms are hostile to liberty in general; i.e. they are liberal control freaks who want higher taxes and gun regulations. They also tend to be losers who are not action focused. And worse yet, most liberals favors strict drug control just like social conservatives do.

So as much as I despise the Druglord Enhancement Agency I doubt there will be much progress on drug freedoms in NH for a while.


18 posted on 12/11/2004 10:20:05 AM PST by Dada Orwell (www.freestateproject.org)
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To: Howlin; archy
If you had been there years ago and go there now, you'd see what they have done; trashy.

Could you p;lease cite some specific examples?

19 posted on 12/12/2004 10:58:11 AM PST by jmc813 (J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS)
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To: Dark Glasses and Corncob Pipe
"We don't have any mustard. If you had been here on Thursday, well, we had mustard on Thursday."

It is in all reality possible that the supply order got screwed up. I worked in a restuarant all through college and it was amazing to see some of the most basic items left off of the order. How do you forget to order chicken!?!?!?

And I'm not talking about a local mom and pop operation but a huge national chain. We did between $175,000 and $200,000 a week in sales with periodic weeks in excess of $225,000.

20 posted on 12/13/2004 5:32:01 PM PST by Phantom Lord (Advantages are taken, not handed out)
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To: Howlin
Stoners unite!

It is a dang shame what those people have done to NH.

I'm sure the 200 free staters who have moved there so far have had a tremendous impact. Its the liberals escaping just across the border from Mass that have caused the decline.

21 posted on 12/13/2004 5:33:48 PM PST by Phantom Lord (Advantages are taken, not handed out)
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To: Howlin
If you had been there years ago and go there now, you'd see what they have done; trashy.

Howlin,

You know I have tremendous respect for you, but you have no clue what you are talking about here. The FreeStaters started moving to NH just over 1 year ago, and officially something like 200 have done so.

As I posted in the above thread, its the liberals from Mass who are the problem.

22 posted on 12/13/2004 5:35:14 PM PST by Phantom Lord (Advantages are taken, not handed out)
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To: archy

porqu-ping!

23 posted on 12/13/2004 5:46:37 PM PST by t_skoz ("let me be who I am - let me kick out the jams!")
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To: Phantom Lord

My first husband was from New Hampshire; I started going there in 1973; it was a wonderful place to go; clean, quite.

By the time I stopped going up there, you couldn't get down the street for all the motorcycles and "tree huggers." You couldn't even sleep at night for all the noise of cars and cycles.

I never said it was the Free Staters; the dregs of the 60's got there way before they did.


24 posted on 12/13/2004 7:18:48 PM PST by Howlin (W, Still the President)
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To: Howlin
I never said it was the Free Staters; the dregs of the 60's got there way before they did.

On multiple posts you refered to "they" and "them" (FreeStaters) and what had been done to NH.

25 posted on 12/14/2004 7:37:11 AM PST by Phantom Lord (Advantages are taken, not handed out)
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To: Phantom Lord

I believe if you look back, you'll see I was referring to "stoners," which is exactly what I said in my last reply to you.


26 posted on 12/14/2004 9:07:46 AM PST by Howlin (W, Still the President)
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To: Howlin
I believe if you look back, you'll see I was referring to "stoners," which is exactly what I said in my last reply to you.

Yes, you were. The poster who said "Stoners Unite" was talking about the FreeStaters and then you proceeded to say "It is a dang shame what those people have done to NH."

Those people in your comment were the FreeStaters.

27 posted on 12/14/2004 10:52:55 AM PST by Phantom Lord (Advantages are taken, not handed out)
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To: t_skoz; AAABEST; A.J.Armitage; archy; austingirl; BADROTOFINGER; Baseballguy; Beck_isright; ...
porqu-ping!

I hear the sound of thundering [if tiny] hooves....


28 posted on 12/16/2004 2:34:26 PM PST by archy (The darkness will come. It will find you,and it will scare you like you've never been scared before.)
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To: Howlin; martin_fierro
My first husband was from New Hampshire; I started going there in 1973; it was a wonderful place to go; clean, quite.

By the time I stopped going up there, you couldn't get down the street for all the motorcycles and "tree huggers." You couldn't even sleep at night for all the noise of cars and cycles.

You anywhere around Laconia while all this was a-goin' on, by chance?

29 posted on 12/16/2004 2:36:23 PM PST by archy (The darkness will come. It will find you,and it will scare you like you've never been scared before.)
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To: Texas_Jarhead
where do jobs for the free staters come from?

By virtue of the vanishingly small 3% unemployment rate here in New Hampshire due to its status as the most economically free state in the nation.

30 posted on 12/16/2004 4:54:35 PM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: sittnick
The article points out that NH has no income tax, and no state sales tax, and no seat belt law. However, liquor is only dispensed in state-run stores. ... So, even NH has a little nanny-state in it.

Well, we've all got to have something to do once we get here, right? Maine recently sold off their state-run liquor stores, perhaps New Hampshire will be next if someone wants to take up that particular battle.

31 posted on 12/16/2004 4:56:27 PM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: KrisKrinkle
ibertarians moving into NH and instead of accomodating themselves to NH insisting NH accomodate to them

and

foreigners moving into the US and instead of accomodating themselves to the US insisting the US accomodate to them

Because unlike some foreigners, we cherish and hew to the founding principles of this nation - limited government, individual rights, and personal responsibility, and we selected a state which was among the best in the nation with respect to those issues.

We're not coming here in order to insist that New Hampshire "accomodate to us," we're coming here because New Hampshire is already very accomodating.

It has a centuries-old tradition of small, responsive government and a proud history of liberty, and we want to help those who are already here - many of whom moved here decades ago for the very same reasons set forth by the FSP - to nurture and encourage that tradition of freedom.

32 posted on 12/16/2004 5:06:45 PM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: archy

Howdy, archy. Are you planning on leaving Texas for the Granite State? I'm in NY and am planning to move to NH as soon as possible. So looking forward to not having to see Hillarys and Patakis and other Commies and RINO scum on my ballot, I can certainly enjoy more personal and economic freedoms too!

And it doesn't hurt any that the gal of my dreams lives 16 miles SW of Nashua NH, either :-D


33 posted on 12/17/2004 6:15:57 AM PST by t_skoz ("let me be who I am - let me kick out the jams!")
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To: Texas_Jarhead

Alot of us will bring our jobs, particularly if we own the company. I hope to be there in time for the 2008 election. Hopefully we can turn the tide on the democrats who were horrified that we had chosen NH as the state to move to.


34 posted on 12/17/2004 4:55:31 PM PST by Katya (Homo Nosce Te Ipsum)
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