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White al-Qaeda at the Gates of the West
Serbianna.com ^ | 12/11/04 | Miroljub Jevtic, Ph.D

Posted on 12/11/2004 2:57:31 AM PST by Straight Vermonter

Recent statement by the departing Homeland Security chief Tom Ridge that a profile of a terrorist must be described in a different way is an encouraging sign. Ridge said that al-Qaeda is actively recruiting terrorists among the white race: Bosnians, Chechens and among the Muslims integrated in the Western society, in particular, women. The new profile of a terrorist - the white al-Qaeda - removes another constraint in the battle against the islamic terrorism that has become a world struggle.

The bad part of the Ridge's statement, however, is that it has come relatively late, and that it is partially true.

The proof that Ridge's statement is true could have been heard immediately after 9/11. For example, immediately after the hit on the World Trade Center, I was summoned by a Belgrade TV Politika where I alluded that the central threat to the West may not come from al-Qaeda members recruited from Arab countries or Asia, but from the members and sympathizers of these terrorists mingling among the white races of Europe. The rationale is simple: since the al-Qaeda attacks on US will not end, and all Middle Eastern visitors to the US will immediately become suspects, terrorists need killers that will go unnoticed by the authorities and, increasingly, the suspecting public.

Since the middle eastern racial type is unique, and despite all efforts by the US government to respect all racial types, whether they like it or not, this racial type will be profiled. Precisely because of this, al-Qaeda has decided to recruit its terrorist killers among muslims that have a racial blend in a western society and a large pool of this racial type is found in the Balkans among Albanians and Bosnian Muslims.

Also important is that the 9/11 attack should be understood as the Islamists do: that it was a prelude designed to test al-Qaeda's possibilities and explore American vulnerabilities that are to be used in the final assault. Al-Qaeda wants the final assault to inflict a mortal blow to America or inflict sufficiently large damage so that US would become a desert that will never be able to recover into an oasis of freedom.

If the aim is a mortal attack on the US, then acts of the 9/11 type seem to be important to the terrorists only as morale boosters for their allegiance. But to achieve destruction of America, islamic terrorists want to hit targets such as nuclear facilities or the stockpiles of the atomic weapons, or use the weapons of mass destruction that will kill all alive but keep the material wealth of the US which islamic terrorists covet.

In December 2003 I've also alluded to this nuclear and WMD threat on a Belgrade TV show, and unfortunately it seems not early enough: soon thereafter, the news came that at least 10 top secret disks pertaining to the US nuclear program have been stolen from the Nuclear Laboratory in Los Alamos. The more bizarre is that this was the second time that top secret nuclear files have been stolen from that laboratory.

The repeat of the theft would not have happened unless some serious security holes exist and not just as absence of sufficient security personnel but, more importantly, as a political refusal to look into the eyes of the truth. Because of this, there is a real possibility that the institutions such as the one in Los Alamos will become infiltration centers that will lead the terrorist activities in the US and the peoples best suited to infiltrate these institutions and destroy America from the inside are the "white al-Qaeda" found among the Muslims of the Balkans - most notably the Muslim Albanians and Bosnians. That is why al-Qaeda is actively recruiting among them.

Ridge has made a similar mistake by not including into the new terrorist profile the islamic Albanians, or more precisely, their organized political-criminal hybrid that dominates Europe and has recently dethroned the Italian Mafia in the US as the leading criminal enterprise. This failure may be a tragic result of the Balkan policies that US has had in the Balkans and it compounds the political and security mistakes that the ex-Yugoslav and now Serbian authorities are making.

In treatment of the islamic problem in the Balkans the accent of the problem was always shifted onto the Bosnian Muslims while, in the case of Albanians, the phenomena of islamic fanaticism was downplayed.

When analyzing the Albanian society, for example, the typical depiction is of a conglomeration of 3 religious groups, and that the Islamic one is made up of Sunnis and many other dervish sects among whom the Becktesh was the largest. The cliché was that Albanians have overcome all of their religious differences and achieved national unity so, the cliché goes, religion does not matter to the Albanians. Therefore, the impact of Islam on the politics of Albanians was neglected and with that the potential influence of the al-Qaeda type organizations was also neglected.

Many superficial elements did give this clichéd impression. Albania was ruled by an atheistic regime for 50 years and it was removed only recently with the fall of communism; all Albanian separatist groups that operated in the Balkans had a distinctly marxist outlook and were nostalgic of Albania that was stalinist at the time.

The clichéd political profile of Albanians in the Balkans suggested that the Albanians are secularized society with a negligible Islamic influence. Along with the neglect of the force of Islam among Albanians, whether deliberate or not but nevertheless a false religious picture was also portrayed of the Albanian population. For example, the much touted "Balkan expert" Stephen Schwartz recently made a claim that 15% of Albanians in Macedonia are Christian while a more realistic picture is a negligible decimal. Similarly, in Kosovo, claims are made that hundreds of thousands are Catholic when in fact the Kosovo Albanian Catholic congregation led by Bishop Mark Sopi is at 20,000 - just below two percent.

In addition to the overwhelming numbers and behind the surface of clichés attempting to whitewash the Islamic influence among Albanians are cultural practices that suggest a much more "Islamic" character of Albanians then Bosnian Muslims.

For example, even during the years of hyper-atheism of the communist Yugoslavia, Albanian recruits in the ex-Yugoslav army refused pork products at an overwhelmingly larger rate then did the Bosnian Muslims; Albanian soldiers demanded that the toilets be outfitted not with paper but water hoses; belief in djenet and huria (Islamic heaven's virgins) that are waiting for the devout ones is much more widespread among the Albanians then the Bosnian Muslims. What's more alarming is the spread of the Wahabism among the Albanians across Balkans. In fact, the most prominent Kosovo Albanian clergyman, Redzxep Boya, is a Wahabi schooled cleric and exerts tremendous influence on the political landscape of this province. In Albania itself, furthermore, Muslims are increasingly renouncing moderate Henif-Islam and flocking to the militant Wahabism.

The Wahabi Redzxep Boya was recently removed from the leadership position and along with these traditional Islamic practices of takhiyah that require a Muslim to deceive the infidel in order to bring victory to Islam; the upsurge in Islamic fanaticism among Albanians; sheer scale of population numbers; general cultural predisposition to the extreme Islamic practices, as well as the vast and brutal criminal network that stretches across the world... all represent a terrorist profile that should alarm the West and in particular, the US.

The profile should be even more alarming because the al-Qaeda has already established a good terrorist network among the Albanians in the Balkans. During the mandate of the post-communist President of Albania, Sali Berisha, al-Qaeda infiltrated that country with great deal of help from Berisha's chief of security (SHIK) Baskim Gazidede who may have organized bin-Laden's visit to Albania. Gazidede also organized the secret training camps for the Albanian gunmen, KLA, in Albania itself, Kosovo and Macedonia, and some of the financing for the camps came from al-Qaeda.

After the fall of the Berisha government, Gazidede allegedly flew to safety to Syria. Despite his departure and presence of the NATO troops in Albania and Kosovo, the goal of Islamic terrorists is unchanged for this region: to create a large, majority Albanian and Muslim state in the Balkans by annexing territories from Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro and Greece to Albania and to use that islamic state as a launching pad for destruction of the West.

With its support for the extreme islamic forces in the Balkans, the US has contributed greatly to the spread of terrorism and insecurity in the region. Extremists used this support very well and now are ready to repay it back to America and the payment may be too dangerous to collect.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: albania; aliens; alqaeda; aserbmyth; balkans; bosnia; bs; chechnya; dhs; fiction; globaljihad; homelandsecurity; immigrantlist; immigration; kosovo; lies; nato; propaganda; serbianna; serbpropaganda; whitealqaeda; whitealqaida; wot
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1 posted on 12/11/2004 2:57:31 AM PST by Straight Vermonter
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To: Darko

Ping


2 posted on 12/11/2004 2:57:49 AM PST by Straight Vermonter (Liberalism: The irrational fear of self reliance.)
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To: Straight Vermonter

These monstrous Mullahs are the core problem, their evil spawn will continue to multiply unless the Mullahs are dealt with.


3 posted on 12/11/2004 3:03:48 AM PST by tkathy (The Bluenecks need to get over it.)
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To: Straight Vermonter

Fascinating article.


4 posted on 12/11/2004 3:03:51 AM PST by independentmind
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To: Straight Vermonter
Tom Ridge must have watched TNT's "The Grid" where the lead FBI agent explains how a white person can be Muslim. "ever heard of Chechnya? It's in the Caucasus region of Central Asia. Caucasus for caucasian, get it."
5 posted on 12/11/2004 3:08:22 AM PST by endthematrix ("Hey, it didn't hit a bone, Colonel. Do you think I can go back?" - U.S. Marine)
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To: Straight Vermonter

"may be a tragic result of the Balkan policies that US has had in the Balkans and it compounds the political and security mistakes that the ex-Yugoslav and now Serbian authorities are making."

We can thank Clinton for the disasterous mess in the Balkans. Bombing people who were just trying to get Muslim maniacs under control.


6 posted on 12/11/2004 3:08:45 AM PST by tkathy (The Bluenecks need to get over it.)
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To: Straight Vermonter

Islamofascist mullahs will find it especially satisfying if America is brought down by whites.


7 posted on 12/11/2004 3:10:56 AM PST by hershey
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To: Calpernia; Velveeta; Revel; Honestly; DAVEY CROCKETT

A good article, full of google searches.


8 posted on 12/11/2004 3:42:17 AM PST by nw_arizona_granny (Today, please pray for God's miracle, we are not going to make it without him.)
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To: Straight Vermonter; tkathy
First, written by a Serb nationalist and posted on a Serb nationalist web-site. I'm a Balkans vet & the Serbs have been playing this tune of "white al qaeda" for years in the hope that it will distract from the atrocities and ethnic cleansing that they themselves committed.

Second, we've had tens of thousands of U.S. troops in the Balkans (Macedonia, Bosnia, Albania, Kosovo) for ten years and have not had a single loss to hostile action--never been attacked by these people. If there are al qaeda & Islamist extremists all over Bosnia & Kosovo, then why aren't they attacking us like in Iraq, Afghanistan, and even Saudi Arabia? I've been all over Kosovo, Albania & the Albanian populated parts of Macedonia usually travelling in one or two civilian type vehicles. My biggest problem was fending off the traditional Albanian hospitality offers when they would find I was American.

Third, the conflict in Kosovo was/is a national liberation struggle by the Albanians against what they saw as unjust and what was undoubtedly oppressive Serbian rule from Belgrade. It was not a religious conflict, hard as the Serbs work--especially since 9/11--to portray it as such. President Rugova, Kosovo's most popular elected politician, is Catholic. Albanian Christian churches & their faithful are growing. The national heroine is Mother Teresa--an ethnic Albanian whose family was originally from Kosovo. Not the marks of an Islamic society.

9 posted on 12/11/2004 4:09:03 AM PST by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf
502nd, eh?

327th myself... right across the street.

10 posted on 12/11/2004 4:16:56 AM PST by bikepacker67 ("This is the best election night in history." -- DNC chairman Terry McAuliffe 11/2/04 8pm)
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To: mark502inf

Very interesting. I have read so many conflicting reports of all this, I don't know what to believe. Just because people are nice to your face, doesn't mean that behind your back they may be plotting something entirely different. Time will surely tell.

What bugs me, is Clinton getting a free ride, whereby if Bush had done the exact same thing as Clinton in Kosovo, the left would be insanely savaging Bush.


11 posted on 12/11/2004 4:17:14 AM PST by tkathy (The Bluenecks need to get over it.)
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To: mark502inf

Howdy fellow 502d:

Here's another white al Qaida story to go with this one:

BACKGROUNDER: Compiled by Bill Gertz


'White man' training Al Qaida terrorists in wilderness camp near Kenya

Al Qaida linked Islamist terrorists have set up a training camp in southern Somalia, near the Kenya border, according to eyewitness reports in the local press.
The Nairobi East African Standard newspaper reported last week that Kenyan border guards are aware of the camp, which is a 20-minute boat ride from the underwater park at Kiunga, a border region.

The Islamists at the camp are being trained with the help of a "white man sporting a thick moustache and believed to be of Eastern European extraction, presumably Yugoslavia," the newspaper reported.

The camp at Ras Kiamboni is being used to recruit and train Islamist extremists linked to the Al Ittiyad, a Somalia based group linked to Al Qaida.

According to the report, Al Ittiyad terrorists transit the Kenyan border with arms and equipment. The camp is said to employ turban-wearing sentries armed with AK-47 rifles.

The terrorists are told that they would be sent to fight alongside Islamists in Chechnya. The fighters are part of the global "jihadist" or holy warrior movement that includes Al Qaida.

The accented trainer has been identified only as "David."

The report said fighters who were killed in friendly fire accidents are buried in the camp.

The facility is hidden in a thicket in the wilderness area of Somalia and is defended by a large caliber gun mounted on the coast targeted against approaching ships or boats.

An official in the Kenyan counterterrorist agency said the camp is supported by a Garissa, Kenya businessman and a series of lodges in the Majengo area of Mombassa.

Kenya agents visited the camp in May, June and July and obtained valuable details about its operations in an area almost 45 square miles in size.

The camp is inhabited by families of the jihadists and includes local police and courts.

The terrorists also have cells in Kenya and are supported by the Kenyan businessman. "He is the key financier of the group. Funds to bankroll the suspect activities of the outfit are channeled to the businessman from different banks in Kuwait," the official was quoted as saying.


12 posted on 12/11/2004 4:38:01 AM PST by datura (Destroy The UN, the MSM, and China. The rest will fall into line once we get rid of these.)
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To: nw_arizona_granny
As Serbian authors generally do, he conveniently conflates both the Serbian Orthodox Church with all Christianity and Albanian anti-Serb attacks with anti-Christian attacks. Besides the clearly nationalistic history of the the Serb Albanian conflict, the growth of Albanian Catholicism in Kosovo demonstrates the fallacy of his position. Here's an article to read:

Roman Catholicism Supplanting Orthodoxy in Kosovo

Excerpts:

PRIZREN, Yugoslavia, Aug. 22 (RNS)--Throughout Kosovo, there are two major kinds of churches, Roman Catholic and Serbian Orthodox. It is easy to tell the difference. The Serbian Orthodox churches are notable for the NATO tanks parked outside, for the rows of coiled razor wire, for the sandbagged guardposts, and for the soldiers with automatic weapons who demand identification from visitors.

Roman Catholic churches in Kosovo are unguarded and unfortified.

Kosovo's 60,000 Catholics, who make up about 4% of the province's population, are enjoying a period of long-awaited freedom and growth. At the same time, the once dominant Serbian Orthodox Church is under steady attack from ethnic Albanian Muslims here who identify the Serbian church with decades of government discrimination.

Because the vast majority of Kosovo Catholics are ethnic Albanians, there is little of the ethnic animosity that divides Orthodox Serbs and Muslim Albanians.

Bishop Sopi, a genial man with an authoritative bearing, said in an earlier interview that local Serbs' flight from Kosovo was a natural process.

"One thing must be clear: The Serbs did not just run to Serbia because the Albanians were driving them out," he said, adding that the Serbs "behaved themselves very badly for the last 10 years and especially during the war, so they have reason to fear for their lives."

During 78 days of NATO bombing and Serb attacks on Albanian Kosovars, Sopi remained in Kosovo along with the vast majority of his 36 priests and 70 nuns.

He said Catholics were not subject to discrimination for their faith.

According to Andreas Szolgyemy, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe's religion adviser in Kosovo, Catholics and Muslims have long enjoyed close relations in the region. He related his experience attending two religious holidays last winter in Pristina, Kosovo's capital.

"At midnight Mass Christmas, in the Catholic church, I would say that half the 2,000 or 3,000 people were Muslims,"

13 posted on 12/11/2004 4:45:06 AM PST by mark502inf
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To: bikepacker67

The 327 wasn't too bad, in spite of their glider heritage. It was those "Mammasans" or, as they like to call themselves, "Rakkasans" that just couldn't keep up with the 502d.


14 posted on 12/11/2004 4:49:26 AM PST by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf
Second, we've had tens of thousands of U.S. troops in the Balkans (Macedonia, Bosnia, Albania, Kosovo) for ten years and have not had a single loss to hostile action--never been attacked by these people.

I have no particular dog in this hunt, but I have to wonder . . .

Could it be because the Kosovo Liberation Army is too busy killing or driving out as many Serbs as they can?  Since we arrived, how have the Serbs, Roma and Askhali communities fared?

15 posted on 12/11/2004 4:55:41 AM PST by Racehorse
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To: mark502inf
The 327 wasn't too bad

Damn Right! Bastogne Baby!

As for the 187th, I'm in agreement...
That's why they had the crappy barracks when we had the 3-man "apartments" ;-)

16 posted on 12/11/2004 5:03:38 AM PST by bikepacker67 ("This is the best election night in history." -- DNC chairman Terry McAuliffe 11/2/04 8pm)
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To: mark502inf; kosta50

I've recently heard similar stories from a young woman from our parish who is teaching in Albania. But she does say that there are large numbers of Turks and Arabs there, "students" who glare at the Orthodox when they see them and act very menacing. On the other hand, she says the average Albanians she meets are very nice to her, no matter what their religion. In the meantime, Mohammaden mobs are still sacking Orthodox Churches in Kosovo while NATO troops stand by because of the rules of engagement and there is no question, as you must know, that Al Queda or its sympathizers were active during the war over there in relatively large numbers.


17 posted on 12/11/2004 5:20:10 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Nuke the Cube!)
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To: Straight Vermonter; ninenot; BlackElk; sinkspur; Sean O L
In 1938 (note the date) Hilaire Belloc wrote The Great Heresies. He had this to say about Islam:

Millions of modern people of the white civilization - that is, the civilization of Europe and America - have forgotten all about Islam. They have never come in contact with it, they take for granted that it is decaying, and that, anyway, it is just a foreign religion which will not concern them. It is, as a fact, the most formidable and persistent enemy which our civilization has had, and may at any moment become as large a menace in the future as it has been in the past....

There was one critical moment when it looked as though the scheme would suceed. A huge Mohamedan armada fought at the mouth of the Gulf Of Corinth against the Christian fleet at Lepanto. The Christians won the naval action and the Western Mediterranean was saved. But it was a very close thing, and the name Lepanto should remain in the minds of all men with a sense of history as one of the half dozen great names in the history of the Christian world.

Today we are accustomed to think of the Mohammedan world as something backward and stagnant, in all material affairs at least. We cannot imagine a great Mohamedan fleet made up of modern ironclads and submarines, or a great modern Mohamedan army fully equipped with modern artillery, flying power and all the rest. But not so very long ago, less than a hundred years before the Declaration of Independence, the Mohamededan Government centered at Constantinople had beter artillery and army equipment of evy kind than we Christians had in the West. The last effort they made to destroy Christendom was contemporary with the end of the reign of Charles the II in England and of his brother James and of the usurper William III. It failed during the last years of the seventeenth century, only just over two hundred years ago. Vienna, as we saw, was almost taken and only saved by the Christian army under the comand of the King of Poland on a date that ought to be among the most famous in history -

SEPTEMBER 11, 1683

*We Christians may not have long memories but that can't be said for Islam and the followers of Mohammed.

18 posted on 12/11/2004 5:30:34 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: endthematrix
America's prisons are full of Muslim converts

It is time for the United States to take bold steps in the war on terror. At the top of that list would be preventing Louis Farrakhan’s reentry to the United States. In case you haven’t heard, he casually mentioned to the Iraqi leadership, and subsequently to the Iraqi people that the Muslims in America are praying for an Iraqi victory should the United States start a war with the despotic Middle Eastern state. The anti-American rhetoric was piled high and deep in most of his speeches. The Iraqi press had a field day with these statements; never mind that Mr. Farrakhan’s followers are often regarded by them as the bastard children of Islam.

Louis Farrakhan And Saddam Hussein

19 posted on 12/11/2004 5:33:20 AM PST by sure_fine (*not one to over kill the thought process*)
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To: datura
believed to be of Eastern European extraction, presumably Yugoslavia,"... The terrorists are told that they would be sent to fight alongside Islamists in Chechnya

Based on that info, I'd say he's "presumably" from Chechnya--although, we really don't know--we've had "white al qaeda" from Australia, the USA, and Germany as well.

OK, "war" story. In May 93 I was in the QRF in Somalia. A UN plane tried to land at a small strip in western Somalia (Garbheery)and got shot up. This was an Islamic fundamentalist area, but the US UNITAF had not gone out there as there was no violence or problems with famine, food distribution, etc.

However, the UN (who had just taken over) had the nation-building task and was extending its reach past the areas we already controlled. After the plane incident, we sent an SF team to recon the area. They got in a several hour running gun-battle before they began running out of ammo and had to break contact. We found that Somali Islamic fundamentalists were controlling much of the the Jubba River valley up around the Somali-Kenya-Ethiopia border junction. They didn't want any UN interference (not sure I blame them for that!), but the UNOSOM mandate was to extend control over the whole country.

The UN forces in the area were Botswanans further south in a town called Bardera. Lots of will, but no capability to travel sixty miles up river and take these guys on. The QRF task was to respond to military threats in excess of the capabilities of UN forces, so off we went.

Initial objective was the small town & airstrip where the plane was shot up. We staged forward to Bardera and announnced we were doing joint patrols with the Botswanans to the south and then did so for two days. After dark on the third day two infantry companies were landed via helicopter out of sight and sound behind a helicopter out of sight and sound about 12 kilometers south of Garbheery in the lee of a high ridge. The 10th Mountain light fighters spread out and infiltrated cross-country by platoons into positions immediately around the town, arriving just before dawn. At sunrise, the battalion commander with a truck mounted Infantry Company and a military police platoon converged in on the roads leading from Bardera and Baidoa. Units moved to blocking positions or directly to the known locations of the enemy. One platoon captured a technical and another pounced on a twin-barreled 40mm anti-aircraft gun positioned to cover the airfield. A quick search rounded up a few more weapons and their suspicious owners. Our interpreters said that surprise was complete. We turned the detainees over to the Botswanans for interrogation and headed back to Mogadishu to plan for subsequent ops. Shortly after, the Paks got hit hard in Mogadishu and from that point on we were tied to the big city.

Although that fundamentalist-controlled corner of Somalia remained on the "to do" list, we were overcome by other events and never got to it. It was only much later that we realized the connection between those guys and Aideed.

Personally, although my info is now dated, I'd be a little surprised by an Islamic encampment at the location described. First, that area of Somalia was simply not a fundamentalist area and the clan leadership there was pro-western and fought on our side agaisnt the Aideed militias. Second, we now have some forces in Djibouti whose only job is to look for places like that and take them out--I doubt we'd let an encampement like that survive unless its something other than what Gertz describes.

20 posted on 12/11/2004 5:48:43 AM PST by mark502inf
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To: Kolokotronis
In the meantime, Mohammaden mobs are still sacking Orthodox Churches in Kosovo while NATO troops stand by because of the rules of engagement and there is no question, as you must know, that Al Queda or its sympathizers were active during the war over there in relatively large numbers.

Probably like most everyone else, I lapsed in paying attention to what goes on in Kosovo.  This story and the report from those presently serving there has rekindled my interest.  Apparently, though our forces are not being attacked, all is not sweetness.  From a UN Centre article dated 24 November 2004:

Although there has been progress in reconstruction and reform in Kosovo since March's deadly violence, the worst in the five years since the United Nations took over administering the ethnically-divided province, key areas such as reconciliation and the return of minorities remain cause for concern, according to a new report released today.

While measures and mechanisms have been established for moving forward towards reconciliation between the Albanian majority and minorities, in particular the Serbs, "more action is required to translate these into concrete and sustainable results," Secretary-General Kofi Annan writes in his latest report on the issue.

[ . . . ]

On the credit side Mr. Annan cites evidence that Kosovo is getting back on track towards fulfilling the necessary standards for deciding its final status after the onslaught by Albanian extremists to drive out Serb, Roma and Askhali communities led to 19 people being killed, nearly 1,000 injured and hundreds of homes and centuries-old Serbian cultural sites razed or burned in March.

Progress in some areas has been "tangible and encouraging," with many damaged homes and schools rebuilt or under reconstruction and advances in reforming local government, of major importance in safeguarding the vital interests of minority communities, particularly Serbs, he says.

[ . . . ]

But in the debit column Mr. Annan lists the failure to establish "a systematic, properly resourced programme for outreach, including mid- and long-term reconciliation and inter-ethnic dialogue," a significant drop in the rate of Serbs returning, Serb non-participation in the elections and the continuing precarious security of minority groups.

"There continue to be substantial limitations on their freedom of movement. In some regions, Kosovo Serbs travel through areas in which there is a Kosovo Albanian majority only with escorts," he writes.

"Because of the March events, more members of minority communities have been displaced in 2004 than have been able to return to their homes."

 

21 posted on 12/11/2004 5:58:52 AM PST by Racehorse
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To: Straight Vermonter

"despite all efforts by the US government to respect all racial types... this racial type will be profiled "

WRONG guess !!


22 posted on 12/11/2004 5:59:19 AM PST by traumer
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To: tkathy
Just because people are nice to your face, doesn't mean that behind your back they may be plotting something entirely different. Time will surely tell.

Well, I think time has told. We've been in various parts of the Balkans for ten years and there's been plenty of American targets and time for "plotting", but nothing has happened. Meanwhile, in places with real Islamists, we're getting hit left & right and our troops are fighting and dying.

There are only a few Americans on FR with extensive time on the ground in the Balkans. Our experiences normally stand in direct contradiction to what our numerous Serb & Serb-apologist posters would have you believe.

23 posted on 12/11/2004 6:01:25 AM PST by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf

>we've had tens of thousands of U.S. troops in the Balkans >(Macedonia, Bosnia, Albania, Kosovo) for ten years and >have not had a single loss to hostile action--never been >attacked by these people. If there are al qaeda & >Islamist extremists all over Bosnia & Kosovo, then why >aren't they attacking us like in Iraq, Afghanistan, and ?even Saudi

I don't wish to be the Voice of Doom but I suspect time may alter the situation. The Al Quaeda filth has been overly-occupied in laying its plans and recruiting from firmly-established Muslim countries or those with a substantial Muslim population. Now the ball is rolling "nicely" they can turn their attention to what had been locations less eager to embrace their philosophies and who may take more time and effort to win round. The Muslims in this part of Eastern Europe had never been ardent followers of the faith. But I never expected this to deter the "outsiders" from targeting them in time. The Turks - on "our" side - in some ways paved the way for them during their military action in this area of Europe by circumicising as many young men as their doctors could cope with. Previously these people had never - or very rarely - observed the religious ritual.
The first step in a "conversion" is always the most difficult. It is akin to the Mau Mau oathing in Kenya. The first oath was quite innocuous so no members of the Kikuyu, Embu or Meru tribes placed much importance on it, and for peace sake accepted it. But then came the second and so on. There was a total of seven oaths, each with seven parts, growing increasingly more unpleasant and eventually unspeakable. But having travelled a certain way down the road, one more step forward each time didn't seem such a dreadful prospect. Start the degradation process and it rolls on with much pushing.....
I personally have nothing against the procedure (on males) except when it is used as a bonding weapon for identifying an enemy as it is in this case. Even the Malaysian government was last year considering enforcing circumcision on the non-Muslim members of its population officially to "promote racial harmony".
This, of course, is laughable. If the procedure is not an established ritual within a cuture (as with the Chinese there) making it mandatory is more likely to antagonise than "harmonise!. Greater harmony could have been achieved by ensuring more Chinese reached senior positions in public life. Admittedly it is some time since I was there
but at the time, Chinese were given a pretty raw deal. Civil servants were often sent on courses abroad, only to find their jobs had been occupied by Malaysians during their absence.
However, back to eastern Europe. We know that Al Quaeda was behind the planning of the hostage-taking operation in the Moscow theatre and the totally revoltingly brutal, murderous seizure of the Russian school.
A Kosovan running a business down the road from me welcomed the action in Iraq. Religion, he said, quite firmly, is just "PART of life" it is not life itself. Here he is surrounded by relatively sane, tolerant people.
I wonder how long he would be able to sustain such an attitude under pressure back home in Kosovo?
The fundamentalists are hardly like to allow such possibly fertile ground in a key area to lie fallow, particularly when we consider the strategic importance of the new oil pipline. Al Quaeda must view with horror the prospect of an
alternative source of oil being available if they step up their political and sabotage activities in the Middle East. It reduces their potency considerbly.
Let me remind you that their aims were made abundantly clear by Osama's second-in-command when asked what they were seeking. "We are not here to negotiate with you," he said. "We are here to DESTROY you."
Anybody who takes the threat lightly should consult a specialist! They're not in touch with reality.


24 posted on 12/11/2004 6:05:28 AM PST by Andika (uite insignifficant.)
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To: independentmind

Perhaps but also very self-serving:

"Ridge has made a similar mistake by not including into the new terrorist profile the islamic Albanians "

Look who is the author....


25 posted on 12/11/2004 6:06:11 AM PST by traumer
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To: Straight Vermonter

Bump for reference. ;-)


26 posted on 12/11/2004 6:10:55 AM PST by Tunehead54 (Repeal the 22nd Amendment!)
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To: Straight Vermonter

"this racial type is found in the Balkans among Albanians and Bosnian Muslims"

Aren't these the ones that Clinton wagged the dog over?

We still have not recovered from the Clinton administration, and we never will. We still haven't recovered from the Johnson adminstration, for that matter.


27 posted on 12/11/2004 6:14:07 AM PST by H.Akston (It's all about property rights)
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To: mark502inf

It's pretty much a futile battle around here against blatant Serb propaganda. People basically want to believe it and pretty eagerly lap it up. It's a pretty simplified world view. So now you're getting FReepers who buy the idea Milosevic is some sort of hero, that all Bosnian Muslims are rabid members of AQ and were so before the Bosnian war started, etc.


28 posted on 12/11/2004 6:20:57 AM PST by Strategerist
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To: endthematrix

Arabs ARE Caucasians. People seem desperately resistant to this idea though.

Among the (many, despite the attention given to those who claim there are no races at all) scientists who use and accept race that's where they're categorized. Not like they're Asian or Black.


29 posted on 12/11/2004 6:27:05 AM PST by Strategerist
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To: mark502inf

"At midnight Mass Christmas, in the Catholic church, I would say that half
the 2,000 or 3,000 people were Muslims,"

This I find hard to believe, they might be arabs, but not muslims, I would think.

thank you for the added information, as I don't know enough about Kosovo.


30 posted on 12/11/2004 6:29:11 AM PST by nw_arizona_granny (Today, please pray for God's miracle, we are not going to make it without him.)
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To: Kolokotronis
In the meantime, Mohammaden mobs are still sacking Orthodox Churches in Kosovo while NATO troops stand by because of the rules of engagement

A little context helps. Besides the ethnic cleansing & atrocities committed by the Serbs in the 98-99 war, over 200 mosques were destroyed. When the Albs returned to their burnt out villages in the summer of 99, they were somewhat irritated and went out to get some back. That's when most of the Serbs were driven out of Kosovo and when the Serb Orthodox churches were attacked. The operative term is Serb, not Orthodox. And the attackers are best described as Albanians, most probably to include Albanian irreligious and Christians, not "Mohammedan". Note that the Albanian Christian Churches were not touched.

As for rules of engagement in the 2004 riots, the KFOR troops had all the authority they needed to protect civilian lives and property. They were surprised and either didn't react very quickly in some cases, or in others apparently (Germans in particular) did not want to put their troops at risk to confront the rioters. BTW, the killed included 11 Albanians and 8 Serbs--it was not all one-sided. At least one of the Serbs and three of the Albanians were killed by KFOR.

as you must know, that Al Queda or its sympathizers were active during the war over there in relatively large numbers.

Actually, I do know something about this and reports of Al Qaeda were never confirmed and participation by outside jihadists was greatly exaggerated. The only known Al qaeda contact was bin Laden's emissary Claud Kader who the KLA threw out, refusing to accept even the weapons he brought. Kader is now in jail in Albania. If you trace the Al qaeda references, they always lead to Serb or anonymous sources. If you know anything about Balkans history, you should know that the Serb-Albanian conflict has been going on long before al qaeda existed or bin laden was even born.

31 posted on 12/11/2004 6:35:14 AM PST by mark502inf
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To: bornacatholic

The Belloc quotes were great. Belloc was *prescient* because at the time (1938) he wrote those comments, the Muslim countries were languishing in obscurity. The huge oil deposits hadn't yet been found or exploited. The thought of the USSR and the US supplying the Egyptians and Saudis with a modern air force would have made Belloc rotate in his grave.


32 posted on 12/11/2004 6:36:29 AM PST by valkyrieanne (card-carrying South Park Republican)
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To: Strategerist
Arabs ARE Caucasians. People seem desperately resistant to this idea though.

So are Turks, Pakistanis, Persians, the "white Moors" of Northern Africa, and Indians.

The British kind of poisoned the well here. They insisted on seeing their colonial subjects as members of "inferior races," even when scientifically those subjects were *of the same race.*

33 posted on 12/11/2004 6:39:36 AM PST by valkyrieanne (card-carrying South Park Republican)
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To: Straight Vermonter

Interesting thread bump. Thanks


34 posted on 12/11/2004 6:44:32 AM PST by PGalt
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To: Andika
A Kosovan running a business down the road from me welcomed the action in Iraq. Religion, he said, quite firmly, is just "PART of life" it is not life itself. Here he is surrounded by relatively sane, tolerant people. I wonder how long he would be able to sustain such an attitude under pressure back home in Kosovo?

Andika, that philosophy is the prevailing philosophy in the Albanian-populated lands--the pressure is to adopt to that way of thinking, not the other way around. Remember, before the Serbs invaded and took over Kosovo in 1912, the Albanians had been in a state of revolt against the Muslim Ottomans. There's an oft-quoted saying among Albanians that: "The religion of Albanians is Albanianism."

Having said that, if Kosovar independence does not come and the USA is seen as helping prevent it, then all sorts of things can change.

35 posted on 12/11/2004 6:46:01 AM PST by mark502inf
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To: traumer
"despite all efforts by the US government to respect all racial types... this racial type will be profiled " WRONG guess !!

LOL, that's exactly what I thought when I read that.

36 posted on 12/11/2004 6:47:52 AM PST by mark502inf
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To: Straight Vermonter

They think they can reach us? Well, we can reach them real good. Set the missile coordinates for Mecca Medina.


37 posted on 12/11/2004 6:51:14 AM PST by dennisw (Help put the "Ch" back in Chanukah)
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To: Strategerist
It's pretty much a futile battle around here against blatant Serb propaganda. People basically want to believe it and pretty eagerly lap it up. It's a pretty simplified world view. So now you're getting FReepers who buy the idea Milosevic is some sort of hero, that all Bosnian Muslims are rabid members of AQ and were so before the Bosnian war started, etc.

Well, I don't think its futile. The truth comes out. Fortunately, the Bush administration is not setting Balkans policy based on Serb propaganda.

38 posted on 12/11/2004 6:54:23 AM PST by mark502inf
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To: Andika

To add to your erudite take: How about the Muslim praying 5 times a day in Muslim countries, and Ramadan and other collective religious observances? To me this enhances the hypnotic brainwashing of Islam. Enhances the group think that makes Islamic countries impervious to outside influences. Those who have doubts about Islam still have it drilled in by going along with these group observances so they aren't ostracized.

They glom onto some of our technology but their mindset remains the same.


39 posted on 12/11/2004 7:00:00 AM PST by dennisw (Help put the "Ch" back in Chanukah)
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To: mark502inf

Great minds think alike... :o)


40 posted on 12/11/2004 7:00:46 AM PST by traumer
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To: nw_arizona_granny
"At midnight Mass Christmas, in the Catholic church, I would say that half the 2,000 or 3,000 people were Muslims," This I find hard to believe, they might be arabs, but not muslims, I would think. thank you for the added information, as I don't know enough about Kosovo.

Not sure why you said they are Arabs--there are almost no Arabs in Kosovo--used to be a few missionaries, but they're mostly gone due to lack of success. And those are the guys you can be sure were NOT there.

Religion in the Balkans--even among the Serbs--is to a large degree more an expression of heritage and culture than it is a practiced faith. It is also normal among the Albanians to attend each other's (Sunni, Orthodox, Bektashi, and Catholic) major religious events just as it is normal for them to hardly ever attend the normal Friday & Sunday services for any of those religions.

41 posted on 12/11/2004 7:05:52 AM PST by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf
There are only a few Americans on FR with extensive time on the ground in the Balkans. Our experiences normally stand in direct contradiction to what our numerous Serb & Serb-apologist posters would have you believe.

If you were in the Balkans then you learned nothing. You never line up to support Islamic imperialism. Never ever. This is dumb! I never support the Muslim side in these disputes. Anyways you should stop whining since Muzzies with their explosive birthrates, gained new European lebensraum in Kosovo and use it as base for projecting their criminal enterprises (drugs etc) into Europe. You should be smiling. More turf for the Allah hypnotized masses.

42 posted on 12/11/2004 7:08:37 AM PST by dennisw (Help put the "Ch" back in Chanukah)
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To: mark502inf
Religion in the Balkans--even among the Serbs--is to a large degree more an expression of heritage and culture than it is a practiced faith.

But of course. This must be how you can account for all the dynamited Serb Orthodox churches in Kosovo. The Muslims were simply practicing their faith of Mohammed the dynamiter.

43 posted on 12/11/2004 7:12:15 AM PST by dennisw (Help put the "Ch" back in Chanukah)
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To: dennisw
Dennis, the ethnic Albanian Christian churches in Kosovo are not touched and the Catholic Church is expanding. Those Serb churches are hit because they are Serb, not because they are Christian. Read this post.
44 posted on 12/11/2004 7:18:46 AM PST by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf; kosta50
"A little context helps. Besides the ethnic cleansing & atrocities committed by the Serbs in the 98-99 war, over 200 mosques were destroyed. When the Albs returned to their burnt out villages in the summer of 99, they were somewhat irritated and went out to get some back. That's when most of the Serbs were driven out of Kosovo and when the Serb Orthodox churches were attacked. The operative term is Serb, not Orthodox. And the attackers are best described as Albanians, most probably to include Albanian irreligious and Christians, not "Mohammedan"."

And then:

"If you know anything about Balkans history, you should know that the Serb-Albanian conflict has been going on long before al qaeda existed or bin laden was even born."

I almost don't know where to start. You say 200 mosques were destroyed, I am assuming in Kosovo. We certainly have all learned what the Mohammedans use their mosques for, haven't we. In my opinion its a damn shame every last one of those hives wasn't destroyed. As for the Mohammedans being upset and wanting revenge, I don't doubt that at all. As you say its been going on for centuries. Its just that this time the Western Europeans and the Clintonistas decided we'd step in and tip the scales in favor of our dear Mohammedan brethren and against the Serbs, who have been our allies for the past 140 odd years. Personally, I think we should have stayed out of it entirely. As for knowing anything about the history of the Balkans, I suspect I know a damn site more than most on these threads. My family is from the Balkans. We fought for centuries against the Turks and their oppression of the Christian People and the Orthodox Church, three times along side the Serbs in the last century alone. The more recent, communist history of Yugoslavia, with Tito's creation of a mini Albanian state in Kosovo in order to bury Serbian national pride added fuel to a long burning fire there. As for destroying "Serb" Churches, that's true. Only Orthodox Churches were destroyed because these Mohammedans had enough sense not to attack the Churches of their allies, Western Christians. Islam's war on Christian Orthodoxy, "Serb" or otherwise has extended from Egypt through the Middle East ,Turkey and Caucasia and right up to the Croatian border. It continues to this day in our great "ally" Turkey. What have the Turks, the Egyptians, the Syrians, the Iraqis and the denizens of the Gulf States got against Orthodoxy? The common denominator in all of this is Islam and in the Balkans, the West chose the wrong side as I suspect we are beginning to learn.

KFOR was "surprised"? You see this points out one of the main problems with our involvement in the Balkans recently and that of the Western Europeans for the past 100 years of so since the initial collapse of the Ottoman Empire. The Western Christian Powers of the 1900-1918 era had no understanding at all of what was going on in the Balkans. The secular, oh so sophisticated Western Europeans of today and the Clintonistas of the '90s and the neo-cons of the present administration have even less understanding than the Hapsburgs of 1904. Anyone with any understanding of the history of the Balkans could have predicted what was going to happen in Kosovo. If KFOR was "surprised", then KFOR is lead by delusional fools.
45 posted on 12/11/2004 7:34:53 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Nuke the Cube!)
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To: dennisw
Dennis, I have been not just in the Balkans, but in Islamic parts of Africa and the Middle East; to include combat against actual Islamists. I am all for taking strong action to stop AlQaeda and the spread of islamist ideology; abroad and at home.

However, I am not in favor of being taken in, as you apparently have been, by Serb nationalist propagandists who throw the Islamist label at their historic Albanian enemy in the hopes of gaining our support.

46 posted on 12/11/2004 7:38:07 AM PST by mark502inf
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To: Straight Vermonter

"BIN LADEN RUNS TERRORIST NETWORK, REPORT SAYS

November 30, 1998, LONDON - The man accused of orchestrating the U.S. Embassy bombings in Africa operates a terrorist network out of Albania, The Sunday Times reported.

"The newspaper quoted Fatos Klosi, the head of the Albanian intelligence service, as saying a network run by Saudi exile Osama Bin Laden sent units to fight in the Serbian province of Kosovo.

"Bin Laden is believed to have established an Albanian operation in 1994 after telling the government he headed a wealthy Saudi humanitarian agency wanting to help Albania, the newspaper reported.

"Klosi said he believed terrorists had already infiltrated other parts of Europe from bases in Albania. Apparent confirmation of Bin Laden's activities came earlier this month during the murder trial of Claude Kader, 27, a French national who said he was a member of Bin Laden's Albanian network, the newspaper said.


47 posted on 12/11/2004 7:44:50 AM PST by Decombobulator
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To: Kolokotronis
My family is from the Balkans.

Mine isn't. Which is a great advantage when it comes to taking an objective view of Balkans events.

48 posted on 12/11/2004 7:47:33 AM PST by mark502inf
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To: bornacatholic
SEPTEMBER 11, 1683

Christopher Hitchens, who is a Middle East scholar, was the first (and one of the very few) that I saw to note the 911 date in 2001 as the anniversary of the Fall of Vienna.

49 posted on 12/11/2004 7:56:11 AM PST by texasbluebell
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To: Straight Vermonter
What this article points out is this is not a "Arab" problem. It is a "Muslim" problem. Unfortunately for them, most Arabs are Muslims. So, profiling can still be useful.

Perhaps we should be collecting names of ALL Muslims in this country and profiling them too. Somehow or other we have to get past the idea Islam is merely a benign religion instead of a cult whose very scriptures promote conversion by the sword. They are a threat which seamlessly spans theology, culture, government and law into a worldwide movement for domination over all others who do not share their twisted belief system.

We outlawed Communists for good reasons. We should outlaw Muslims for the same reasons.

50 posted on 12/11/2004 8:00:52 AM PST by Gritty ("Allah created the Kafir and moulded them to be your enemy-Sheikh Abu Hamza)
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