Skip to comments.Looters of Mexico
Posted on 12/12/2004 4:26:54 AM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran
After spending several years starting oil exploration crews for Pemex and re-reading Atlas Shrugged, I think I have The reason Mexico has become so bad.
I like the Mexican people in the fly over parts of Mexico. The mid level and workers of Pemex are good. It is the government and the high up in Pemex that are the vultures and looters. The peso was about 8 cents (12.5 to a dollar). When Pemex found the sito grande, a very large oil pool that covers parts of the states of Chiapas and Tabasco also a long ways into the Gulf of Mexico.
Pemex borrowed billions to produce this great oil find. The looters (government) stole most of the money and what they did buy was junk oil rigs and drill pipe, etc. 1,000 pesos which was worth about $80 now will not buy a coke. This was due to the looters stealing billions from the Mexican people.
Instead of overthrowing the looters the Mexican people had an out, they had no weapons and they could cross into America and have a much safer life. This hurts both Mexico and America as Mexico lost some of it's hardest workers. The gangbangers also came over from Mexico as they could rape and pillage at will.
The government of Mexico is propped up by the billions sent back by the illegals and by our government having borders that are too open.
The only chance I see to help America and Mexico is to seal the border, deport the people who are not here legaly. We also need to arm the Mexican people so they can have a chance against the looters with their armies.
Most of the worlds population are held back by corupt governments. Given a chance to they well rise above and make a better life for themselfs.
I agree with your assessment. We certainly are not going to invade Mexico, but if the U.S. would close the valve on the pressure cooker and turn up the heat, the Mexican people might actually do something. I find it hard to understand after so many have been to America to work and see how a True Republic is suppose to work, sewers, hospitals, schools etc etc, why don't they do something to change Mexico?
True and the people of these countries are not armed.
The only ones who have sources for arms are the drug
dealers and the ones who want to over throw the governments to get power for themselves.
These just want to change one corrupt government for a different type of corruption.
The ag collectives known as "ejidos" are being converted into private property, displacing many.
Your article brought up some good points, and sealing the borders and deporting illegals would work,but don't hold your breath.There's just too much incentive($$$) to maintain the status quo on both sides of the border. The losers as usual are the little people(working class) in Mexico + the US.
It will only work if the people in Mexico are armed.
Well, fixing Mexico seems to be something we should think about. The border 'problem' is beyond belief and we can't ignore it. Happily, it's become a US political problem, so something will finally be done.
Don't forget about the hate America first crowd. We will be blamed, count on it.
You are correct. The problem is corruption. The corruption has its foundation in the belief system. That is the absolute truth historically and now. Cannot post any more about the belief system or the post will be pulled.
So those who are crossing illegally into the US, violating our labor laws, refusing to become part of our culture except the part that knows how to loot the welfare system are government and those "high up"?
I submit that the Latin American culture in general is corrupt. I remember a long time ago in school where we had to take these "situational ethics" sessions where questions were raised like "If you and your family were hungry would you steal for food?" I suppose the percentage of people saying "No" today would be probably lower than the church going community I was living in then, but even our bums ask for money rather than assuming that they are entitled to it and just take it like the growing welfare and criminal class in the US today does.
Instead of overthrowing the looters the Mexican people had an out...,
That "out" is called an election. Just like we have here in the US. We The People could have elected a Pemex officer like JOhn F'ing Kerry, but we chose a lesser of two evils and have this administration.
...they had no weapons
Yeah, but we have weapons and machinery and chemicals to improvise much more, it doesn't mean that gunning down your elected official is going to get you anywhere except a long prison sentence.
In fact, just cruise around FreeRepublic and note the direction most if not all of Latin America is heading when they do have the opportunity to vote - they are deliberately adding to their problems by voting in hard core Marxists and Socialists. According to reports, the Mexican citizens are going to keep this pattern of electing public officials and their party of corrupt thieves into power. We thought that our president was Vicente's bitch, just wait until the scum of the earth regain power in the US.
and they could cross into America and have a much safer life.
And that crap needs to stop too. As long as the peoples of the South have an escape valve, they will continue their stupid, selfish, and corrupt politics and just "cross into America" and bring their loathsome ways with them when their own decisions mature into a horrific nightmare. What I am afraid of is that our government is filled with the same kind of seditionists that inhabit the legislatures of Europe that think it is a great idea to flood the culture with people who hate our culture, want to keep their own destructive ways but want to do it on our dime and our infrastructure that we have taken decades if not centuries to put together. They have no "flesh in the game". Why get educated, raise honest children and work hard, passing on a strong positive ethic to the next generation of Producers when you can slip into a wealthy country in the middle of the night and just loot it? At least people used to resist the Vikings.
As you have pointed out "they had no weapons". We do, and unless our own government figures out that most of the US is against this invasion of Takers who only know how to attach themselves to the Producers via the powers of the Police State (you did read "Atlas Shrugged", right) and ironically by simultaneously violating the inconvenient laws of that same State, a segment of the US population may find a "new" use for those sporting goods What good is that escape valve then when the mortality rate rises?
About what year was that? Didnt pesos get replaced with new pesos about 15 years ago. Are those now devalued as well.
There was a kind of frontier rawness to Mexico that I liked when traveling by motorcycle, but also a sense of fascism and danger that detracts.
Mexicans rebelled against their corrupt, dictatorial government in 1910, led by idealistic reformers. The result was the Mexican Revolution, the bloodiest war ever fought in North America. Well over 1 million died and I've read estimates as high as 3 million. The reformers won and the current corrupt mess is the result. I have no confidence that a new revolution will be any less bloody or pointless. This may be as good as it gets.
The invasion only really started after the looters robbed the Mexican people of the billions.
Yes a lot of the people in the last 25 years are after our
socialist rewards, but some are good people.
Until our borders are are enforced and the people of Mexico are armed there will be no stopping the invasion.
Now the only people armed in Mexico are the drug dealers, corrupt army and communist terrorists.
I know where you're going with that. Agreed.
I also agree that they would have to solve the problems amongst themselves (ie. 'pressure cooker'). There is a strong Nationalist bent amongst all Mexicans and, like Iraq, any US involvement would galvanize many to fight the gringos no matter how well intentioned we are in getting involved in their affairs.
However, the problem with your scenario is that things COULD get worse with a real Socialist, ala Fidel, getting into power down there (IMHO). Any unstable or outwardly belligerent neighbor would not be to our advantage. Nonetheless, maybe the situation could be 'steered'? The problem here though is who would do the 'steering'. (Another CIA-engineered coup to stoke the conspiracy-buffs?)
In the end, I have no good answer to this problem.
"Mexicans rebelled against their corrupt, dictatorial government in 1910, led by idealistic reformers. The result was the Mexican Revolution, the bloodiest war ever fought in North America. Well over 1 million died and I've read estimates as high as 3 million. The reformers won and the current corrupt mess is the result."
The Mexican Revolution was the first successful Communist Revolution to occur in the 20th century, happening before the Russian Revolution and before the Spanish Communists' failed effort and the Chinese Communists' successful one. The Mexican government has operated under the principles of Marxism ever since, up to and including today. The Mexican people live with the detritus of a failed economic and political system that they have enabled for the past 90 years. The sweep of Marxism/Communism in the last hundred years has murdered many, many millions around the world. Mexico and the Mexicans will continue to live like turd-worlders until they shed all the trappings of this failed Marxist/Communist ideology and implement free market policies and the rule of law.
Don't hold your breath. At bottom, these people are Aztecs.
As for the Aztecs, well, they were pretty bad but their Spanish conquerors were no better. The history of Mexico going back as far as you can is incredibly sad.
"1,000 pesos which was worth about $80 now will not buy a coke."
I think you may need to check your math or your year. The exchange rate is now about 11.3 pesos to the dollar; which means, 1,000 pesos is worth $88 Dollars. It will not buy what it used to in Mexico and it certainly will not buy more than it used to - as your thoughts suggest.
I agree with you that the the Mexican working class are excellent people. The growth of their middle class at home is what is going to keep more people at home. That is the reason we do not have an immigration problem with Canada.
The election of Fox was an action by the Mexican people to create a fairer, more prosporus society. It is working and yes, it will still take some time.
I have to ask, which people and what are they to do with their guns?
The Zapatistas of Chiapas have guns. Though we have not heard much about them recently . . . or maybe its really because I have not paid attention . . . the Zapatistas have pretty much set up, without a promised peace agreement with the Mexican government, their autonomy within Chiapas.
Might be interesting to know just how many revolutionary groups are active in Mexico right now. The newspaper, El Universal, recently claimed that the policeman lynched by mobs in San Juan Ixtayopan were not really there taking pictures of suspected drug activity. They were in the Mexico City suburb gathering information about the EPR, the Popular Revolutionary Army, which some consider to be a very serious threat.
A native Californian agrees. I grew up with Mexican AMERICANS. There were also those that hated us gringos, even then (1950's).
I'm not saying that all of the new breed are evil. I'm just saying that there are more illegals taking advantage of our "free" system, and sending money home to their relatives in Mexico. And, many are taught to fear and hate, and cheat, us gringos that are giving them a better life.
The only chance I see to help America and Mexico is to seal the border, deport the people who are not here legaly. We also need to arm the Mexican people so they can have a chance against the looters with their armies."
Bo, you're saying there is no chance?
I really do not think they have a chance.
Only a small chance if the people are armed.
People get the government they deserve
Amen. I commend your fearlessness in posting this. Your are dead on right. Now prepare to be black balled by 90% of the people here.
You see, that is the problem. "some are good people." The ideal is all, yet that is not achievable, so we leave ourselves debating how many criminals and ne're-do-wells will we as a country tolerate? Let's say that we close our eyes and let 100 people in. Out of those 100 people, 10 end up in our prisons, or even just 1. So what do we tell the victims of these criminals "some are good people"? Clearly not the ones committing the crimes. The problem I see here is that there is large community of ignorant people, our president included, who think that people are naturally civilized and naturally yearn for a Judeo/Christian ethic and culture. Nothing can be further from the truth. Look how far the US has fallen away from its own Constitution, the reasons are legion, but the declining lack of respect for others (basically the Golden Rule) and a weakened work ethic lead the list. These things stem from a culture, not from an orientation course or by fiat. A major argument against the liberation of Iraq is that "the Iraqis don't respect a democratic form of government." Given that a democratic/republican form of government has been unknown in that region for the history of mankind (which is lengthy considering that most anthropologists consider that region the "Cradle of Civilization"), their argument has basis. Same is true for the Latin Americans. The Aztecs weren't great on respecting individual rights, and the Conquistadors from Spain and Portugal didn't improve things there at all. The Roman Catholic "influence" merely syncretized their pagan religions with a formal heirarchy - which is why they look at tortillas and burnt bread and see the Virgin Mary, and see the dude that played Jesus in Mel Gibson's movie and bring their ailing children up to him to heal.
A discussion I had recently with my wife concerning these "some good people". There was a lengthy series in the Dallas Morning News concerning the state of women in the border towns of Mexico. One segment focused on the maquiladoras (sp?) and how they were mostly staffed by women. The reason why women were the employer's choice, was not necessarily from the nature of the work (though some work would be "beneath" the pride of many Mexican men), but because women were less likely to fight with their employers and fellow employees, sexually harass (or worse) the women and/or show up to work drunk as would the men. IOW, in terms of manual labor, men usually have the advantage over women, yet employers shunned men because after the drunkeness and brawlings, the women were far more reliable and productive. Employers even find the men so less valuable then women that it is cheaper for the employer to provide day care services and cater to the special needs of women, rather than risk it with men.
So where do all these men go when they can't find work in Mexico? Right on over to the good ol' United States! That's right, the same men who can't land jobs in Mexican maquilidoras because they are lazy, violent drunks and perverts are embraced by this president who compares them to native born American Citizens as "hard working, strong family values". Yes, our president, during the debates, using the typical American as a measure of comparison, claimed that uneducated, illiterate, violent, drunken perverts and bums were "hard working with strong family values".
Another poster to this thread mentioned this alleged strong work ethic. During Hurricane's Ivan's sojourn in the Caribbean, for some stupid reason my family chose to take a cruise which was rerouted so that one of our stops was in Belize. We were pleased by the excellent work of those who we came in contact with while there. The next day we went to some port along the eastern Mexican shoreline that was obviously built to accommodate the cruise industry. We rented a poorly maintained golf cart and wandered south of the nearest fishing village. The "roads" literally were ankle deep in refuse and garbage, mostly beer bottles and food packaging, but also dirty diapers and God only knows what else. There were quite a number of "homes", dilapidated and would definitely be condemned in every jurisdiction of America, yet many had bright shiny cars or trucks parked in the "yard", while nude children played with a dead chicken next to the collapsed porch that was littered in empty beer cans and bottles.
While passing through on the non-tourist side, we came across another couple from our ship who had stopped to assist some Mexicans who had their car buried to the frame in sand. Apparently the owner of the car decided that once the car was stuck that the best thing to do would be to spin the tires so until one could see daylight under the drive wheels, transforming what should have been a push and shove into an excavation project. Even though we were paying by the hour for a vehicle, we spent a good half hour on our bellies digging sand out from all around the car, our wives were retrieving material (other than the wet leaves the Mexicans wanted to use) to provide suitable traction once the car's frame was cleared of the sand. Beyond getting the wet leaves, the three Mexican men and the one Mexican woman just stood around impatiently waiting for us Gringos to rescue their car. When the time to try to drive the car came, the woman took her place behind the wheel, the other gringo and I positioned ourselves to lift and push from the front, and one of the Mexican men rested his left hand on the fender of the car. Due to our work and effort, the car was back on the "road" again and the four packed themselves into the car and drove off without a single "gracias" or "thank you".
Our cruise ship, the fourth largest in the Caribbean, docked the following day in Cozumel - the mother of all tourist traps. Our ship came in shortly after day break, and we tied off next to this ship that seemed to be an order of magnitude larger than ours. Basically, between our two ships, we added six to seven thousand people to the population. The cabbies were patiently waiting in a queue literally miles long to hustle us from the ships to the town. We arrived at Plaza del Sol by nine o'clock. NONE of the shops were open. We asked one of the street hustlers when the shops would be opened and we were told that their hours of operation generally were from eleven or so till four that afternoon. Five hours. Could you imagine any retail shop, other than a Korean owned/operated donut shop only open for five hours? We were also informed that the best deals were made the last hour before closing. So basically we only had one hour to shop in a town that has no industry other than tourism. BTW? The ships left after sunset so the hours were not because of the ship schedules.
My experience with the Mexican people in their own homeland removes any question as to why Mexico will always be a failure as a nation and an impediment to prosperity and integrity. The people I ran across were lazy drunken ingrates - and those are the people whose jobs are to cater to tourists with fat wallets and low purchasing discretion.
However, they have put up with the kleptocracy for far too long. Like much of the 3rd world, they view corruption as just a normal part of life. Until this worldview can be changed, there is really no hope that the country can live up to its ultimate potential. Also, when they immigrate to this country (both legally and illegally), they bring this worldview with them. Visit some of the border regions in Texas and California. You'll see it.
Which makes our own government's stalling to do something about the greatest security threat to this nation even more a crime. What exactly is the down side to building a defensive fence on the southern border? We are spending literally hundreds of billions of dollars and are willing to risk thousands of American lives in Iraq under the name of "security", yet if a Fidel Castro or a Hugo Chavez nabs political power in already corrupt and impoverished Mexico and directs the frustrations of the Mexican people against the US even more that it is being directed now, without the security fence, we are left to our 2nd Amendment.
And for those who don't want to include the US/Mexican border on their immediate travel plans, just consult the "Jesus Land" map that marks red or blue based on counties not by states. You will readily see that "world view" in all of those blue border counties.
There was another map that was published "The Purple America". It is interesting to note that the cities that have called themselves "Safe Harbors" for illegal aliens, (ie. Austin, Dallas, et al) are more and more blueish purple than they were the last election cycle. Coincidence?
Very informative, thanks.
A great many of the Mexicans who come to the US are the motivated ones....the ones who would get fed up and revolt against the Mexican government if there were no place to escape to like the US.
I think there's only two practical ways to deal with Mexico: either open the borders and hope the concept of relatively honest government seeps into the Mexican culture over a period of 50 years or so, or clamp down on the border and hope it leads to a revolution in the next 5 or 10 years.
Either way, a lot of people are going to suffer.
Some of the biggest oil looters were former presidents of Mexico who made off with billions of US $ in oil money and were never called on to return even a small percentage of their loot. Until the people of Mexico prosecute these high level thieves, we will continue to see wet backs by the hundreds of thousands invading us every year.
A good friend of mine, a noted film actor and director was vocally irritated by a peasant riding a burro across the scene my friend was filming. The peasant made the fatal mistake of yelling an insult to my friend and it was his last insult. The director pulled his pistol and killed the guy who was 70-80 yards away. He was jailed for a short stay, but an insult is an insult in Mexico.
Where did they buy the guns?
Not at the local gun shops, there are none.
They are readily available. The police often help people buy guns. Sportsmen also get shotguns and rifles and hunting in Mexico is a reality. There were gun shops when I lived there, but you could get them at large outlets such as the National pawn shops too.
I have a friend at work who is from Chihuahua (he's a citizen) that told me a story of his Grandfather. The old gentleman still rides out from his ranch on his horse carrying his pistol in his belt. He told me that his Grandmother makes sure the pistol is empty before he goes without his knowing it. The Federales leave him alone because he's so old and something of a local hero.
I've got a buddy that lives in Managua, Nicaragua (he's an American ex-pat). He got worried for his family because of all the crime and went to the police station and bought an AK47. He said that they'll sell anything for Greenbacks.
The governor of Tabasco invited me to a bear hunt on his ranch.
I was not able to go because of work, he said he had plenty of guns.
I did not know at that time that they had black bears in Tabasco. I would have loved to have shot a jaguar.
I have never seen a gun shop or even an ad for guns in Mexico.
Which one could also add that this is the norm throughout history, not the exception. What is the exception is the US. Now why is that? If it was so simple as to craft our US Constitution and just demand that everyone abide by it, don't you think that the rest of the world would do so? They say that the best government is a benevolent dictatorship, but I think that it has more to do with benevolent rather than dictatorship. What the world doesn't have is benevolent people in political office. Its safe to say that a Constitutional Republic is for a self-governing people. The further one strays from self-governing population to, say, a welfare or criminal class, then the ability for a Constitutional Republic to maintain its form is seriously compromised.
, and if the corrupt elitists of those countries were replaced by gov'ts more like us, the impetus to sneak into the U.S. would be removed.
But that is the problem, finding benevolent men and women to govern. You can have insurrection after coup d' etat after overthrow and still there is no guarantee of good government. Now lets say that John F'ing Kerry's party were to resume control over the US and were to occupy the House, Senate and the Executive whereas they could install a whole new Supreme Court and recreate government organizations in their own image. Afterall, that scenario is far more likely than corrupt elitists surrendering their control over to the mere common man who can't even be trusted to manage his or her own retirement accounts. After a transformation of the people and their ideologies into the exact same form of government - a Constitutional Republic, would you expect the government to be less corrupt, more corrupt or the same?
When the Berlin Wall fell, there were many people who wanted the safety and security of the Communist system. Look at South America, given elections they prefer communism and marxism. Corrupt people make for corrupt government. Lets say that you are a football team owner and want to have a new stadium so that you can make more money, but you don't want to shell out very much money to build one. Simple, you make arrangements with city officials to persuade the citizens of the city to build one for you through their tax dollars. It isn't a difficult sell, find enough fans and tell them that this is for them. Find business owners and tell them that this will increase traffic through their businesses. Find homeowners and tell them that the value of their property will increase. Tell everyone that all that resist the plan are economic imbeciles and other bad things. Then use the power of government to grab real estate at rock bottom prices through the mechanism of eminent domain. The theme here is consistent, convince everybody that if they simply vote money out of their neighbor's pocket then they will benefit. So the sports fan votes for his neighbor to pay for the new stadium that the sports fan will enjoy. The business owner votes his neighbor's wallet so that the business owner might make a few more dollars.
Why would we expect higher moral values out of our politicians than we demand from ourselves? Judging by the fact that Mexico is expected to vote in yet another kleptocratic Marxist kakistocracy, it is clear that the people themselves are envisioning a system where someone else will pay for their luxuries and felt needs.
People usually tend to get the government they deserve.
"Most of the worlds population are held back by corrupt governments, and if the corrupt elitists of those countries were replaced by gov'ts more like us, the impetus to sneak into the U.S. would be removed."
But when our government coddles and supports their corruption, nothing good happens.
Like I said in another fashion in another thread, specifically about John McCain, et al., these American politicians who seem to enjoy selling out to Mexico could become aware really fast that 80 million of us possess the ultimate political recall tool...