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Looters of Mexico
self | December 12,2004 | self

Posted on 12/12/2004 4:26:54 AM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran

After spending several years starting oil exploration crews for Pemex and re-reading Atlas Shrugged, I think I have The reason Mexico has become so bad.

I like the Mexican people in the fly over parts of Mexico. The mid level and workers of Pemex are good. It is the government and the high up in Pemex that are the vultures and looters. The peso was about 8 cents (12.5 to a dollar). When Pemex found the sito grande, a very large oil pool that covers parts of the states of Chiapas and Tabasco also a long ways into the Gulf of Mexico.

Pemex borrowed billions to produce this great oil find. The looters (government) stole most of the money and what they did buy was junk oil rigs and drill pipe, etc. 1,000 pesos which was worth about $80 now will not buy a coke. This was due to the looters stealing billions from the Mexican people.

Instead of overthrowing the looters the Mexican people had an out, they had no weapons and they could cross into America and have a much safer life. This hurts both Mexico and America as Mexico lost some of it's hardest workers. The gangbangers also came over from Mexico as they could rape and pillage at will.

The government of Mexico is propped up by the billions sent back by the illegals and by our government having borders that are too open.

The only chance I see to help America and Mexico is to seal the border, deport the people who are not here legaly. We also need to arm the Mexican people so they can have a chance against the looters with their armies.


TOPICS: Mexico; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: aliens; mexico; pemex; revolution
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To: bowzer313
Every 20th century revolution I can think of ended the same way- with a few thugs sitting on a pile of loot and a pile of corpses. I don't think a new Mexican Revolution will turn out any different. Every time I travel to Mexico I'm struck by how little has really changed.

As for the Aztecs, well, they were pretty bad but their Spanish conquerors were no better. The history of Mexico going back as far as you can is incredibly sad.

21 posted on 12/12/2004 6:28:10 AM PST by jalisco555 ("The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity." W. B. Yeats)
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran

"1,000 pesos which was worth about $80 now will not buy a coke."

I think you may need to check your math or your year. The exchange rate is now about 11.3 pesos to the dollar; which means, 1,000 pesos is worth $88 Dollars. It will not buy what it used to in Mexico and it certainly will not buy more than it used to - as your thoughts suggest.

I agree with you that the the Mexican working class are excellent people. The growth of their middle class at home is what is going to keep more people at home. That is the reason we do not have an immigration problem with Canada.

The election of Fox was an action by the Mexican people to create a fairer, more prosporus society. It is working and yes, it will still take some time.


22 posted on 12/12/2004 6:28:53 AM PST by ChipShot
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran
It will only work if the people in Mexico are armed.

I have to ask, which people and what are they to do with their guns?

The Zapatistas of Chiapas have guns.  Though we have not heard much about them recently . . . or maybe its really because I have not paid attention . . . the Zapatistas have pretty much set up, without a promised peace agreement with the Mexican government, their autonomy within Chiapas.

Might be interesting to know just how many revolutionary groups are active in Mexico right now.  The newspaper, El Universal, recently claimed that the policeman lynched by mobs in San Juan Ixtayopan were not really there taking pictures of suspected drug activity.  They were in the Mexico City suburb gathering information about the  EPR, the Popular Revolutionary Army, which some consider to be a very serious threat.

23 posted on 12/12/2004 6:33:36 AM PST by Racehorse
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran

A native Californian agrees. I grew up with Mexican AMERICANS. There were also those that hated us gringos, even then (1950's).

I'm not saying that all of the new breed are evil. I'm just saying that there are more illegals taking advantage of our "free" system, and sending money home to their relatives in Mexico. And, many are taught to fear and hate, and cheat, us gringos that are giving them a better life.


24 posted on 12/12/2004 6:33:43 AM PST by wizr (Love. Take some, pass it on. John 3:16)
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran

The only chance I see to help America and Mexico is to seal the border, deport the people who are not here legaly. We also need to arm the Mexican people so they can have a chance against the looters with their armies."


Bo, you're saying there is no chance?


25 posted on 12/12/2004 6:45:10 AM PST by philetus (Zell Miller - One of the few)
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To: ChipShot
They came out with new pesos after the early 90s.

I am using the peso values from 1960 to 1990.

So check that out before you say I am wrong.
26 posted on 12/12/2004 6:51:35 AM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Dan Rather called Saddam "Mister President and President Bush "bush")
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To: philetus

I really do not think they have a chance.
Only a small chance if the people are armed.


27 posted on 12/12/2004 6:53:57 AM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Dan Rather called Saddam "Mister President and President Bush "bush")
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran

People get the government they deserve


28 posted on 12/12/2004 6:54:35 AM PST by Max Combined (Clinton is "the notorious Oval Office onanist")
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran
After Cancun opened, I found it interesting that your best deal depended on the type of money spent. Street vendors wanted pesos (they couldn't exchange dollars), restaurants and small shops wanted dollars (to spend when they went north) and finally certain high end shops wanted credit cards ( so they could prove to the government what they making).
29 posted on 12/12/2004 7:00:34 AM PST by razorback-bert
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To: Reuben Hick

Amen. I commend your fearlessness in posting this. Your are dead on right. Now prepare to be black balled by 90% of the people here.


30 posted on 12/12/2004 7:42:16 AM PST by swampfox98 (Michael Reagan: "It's time to stop the flood.")
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran
Yes a lot of the people in the last 25 years are after our socialist rewards, but some are good people.

You see, that is the problem.  "some are good people."   The ideal is all, yet that is not achievable, so we leave ourselves debating how many criminals and ne're-do-wells will we as a country tolerate?  Let's say that we close our eyes and let 100 people in.  Out of those 100 people, 10 end up in our prisons, or even just 1.  So what do we tell the victims of these criminals "some are good people"?  Clearly not the ones committing the crimes.   The problem I see here is that there is large community of ignorant people, our president included, who think that people are naturally civilized and naturally yearn for a Judeo/Christian ethic and culture.  Nothing can be further from the truth.  Look how far the US has fallen away from its own Constitution, the reasons are legion, but the declining lack of respect for others  (basically the Golden Rule) and a weakened work ethic lead the list.  These things stem from a culture, not from an orientation course or by fiat.  A major argument against the liberation of Iraq is that "the Iraqis don't respect a democratic form of government."   Given that a democratic/republican form of government has been unknown in that region for the history of mankind (which is lengthy considering that most anthropologists consider that region the "Cradle of Civilization"), their argument has basis.   Same is true for the Latin Americans.   The Aztecs weren't great on respecting individual rights, and the Conquistadors from Spain and Portugal didn't improve things there at all.   The Roman Catholic "influence" merely syncretized their pagan religions with a formal heirarchy - which is why they look at tortillas and burnt bread and see the Virgin Mary, and see the dude that played Jesus in Mel Gibson's movie and bring their ailing children up to him to heal.

A discussion I had recently with my wife concerning these "some good people".  There was a lengthy series in the Dallas Morning News concerning the state of women in the border towns of Mexico.  One segment focused on the maquiladoras (sp?) and how they were mostly staffed by women.   The reason why women were the employer's choice, was not necessarily from the nature of the work (though some work would be "beneath" the pride of many Mexican men), but because women were less likely to fight with their employers and fellow employees, sexually harass (or worse) the women and/or show up to work drunk as would the men.  IOW, in terms of manual labor, men usually have the advantage over women, yet employers shunned men because after the drunkeness and brawlings, the women were far more reliable and productive.  Employers even find the men so less valuable then women that it is cheaper for the employer to provide day care services and cater to the special needs of women, rather than risk it with men.

So where do all these men go when they can't find work in Mexico?   Right on over to the good ol' United States!  That's right, the same men who can't land jobs in Mexican maquilidoras because they are lazy, violent drunks and perverts are embraced by this president who compares them to native born American Citizens as "hard working, strong family values".   Yes, our president, during the debates, using the typical American as a measure of comparison, claimed that uneducated, illiterate, violent, drunken perverts and bums were "hard working with strong family values".

Another poster to this thread mentioned this alleged strong work ethic.  During Hurricane's Ivan's sojourn in the Caribbean, for some stupid reason my family chose to take a cruise which was rerouted so that one of our stops was in Belize.    We were pleased by the excellent work of those who we came in contact with while there.   The next day we went to some port along the eastern Mexican shoreline that was obviously built to accommodate the cruise industry.   We rented a poorly maintained golf cart and wandered south of the nearest fishing village.  The "roads" literally were ankle deep in refuse and garbage, mostly beer bottles and food packaging, but also dirty diapers and God only knows what else.  There were quite a number of "homes", dilapidated and would definitely be condemned in every jurisdiction of America, yet many had bright shiny cars or trucks parked in the "yard", while nude children played with a dead chicken next to the collapsed porch that was littered in empty beer cans and bottles.

While passing through on the non-tourist side, we came across another couple from our ship who had stopped to assist some Mexicans who had their car buried to the frame in sand.  Apparently the owner of the car decided that once the car was stuck that the best thing to do would be to spin the tires so until one could see daylight under the drive wheels, transforming what should have been a push and shove into an excavation project.  Even though we were paying by the hour for a vehicle, we spent a good half hour on our bellies digging sand out from all around the car, our wives were retrieving material (other than the wet leaves the Mexicans wanted to use) to provide suitable traction once the car's frame was cleared of the sand.  Beyond getting the wet leaves, the three Mexican men and the one Mexican woman just stood around impatiently waiting for us Gringos to rescue their car.  When the time to try to drive the car came, the woman took her place behind the wheel, the other gringo and I positioned ourselves to lift and push from the front, and one of the Mexican men rested his left hand on the fender of the car.   Due to our work and effort, the car was back on the "road" again and the four packed themselves into the car and drove off without a single "gracias" or "thank you".

Our cruise ship, the fourth largest in the Caribbean, docked the following day in Cozumel - the mother of all tourist traps.   Our ship came in shortly after day break, and we tied off next to this ship that seemed to be an order of magnitude larger than ours.  Basically, between our two ships, we added six to seven thousand people to the population.   The cabbies were patiently waiting in a queue literally miles long to hustle us from the ships to the town.   We arrived at Plaza del Sol by nine o'clock.  NONE of the shops were open.   We asked one of the street hustlers when the shops would be opened and we were told that their hours of operation generally were from eleven or so till four that afternoon.   Five hours.   Could you imagine any retail shop, other than a Korean owned/operated donut shop only open for five hours?   We were also informed that the best deals were made the last hour before closing.   So basically we only had one hour to shop in a town that has no industry other than tourism. BTW? The ships left after sunset so the hours were not because of the ship schedules.
 

My experience with the Mexican people in their own homeland removes any question as to why Mexico will always be a failure as a nation and an impediment to prosperity and integrity.  The people I ran across were lazy drunken ingrates - and those are the people whose jobs are to cater to tourists with fat wallets and low purchasing discretion.

31 posted on 12/12/2004 9:05:30 AM PST by Reuben Hick
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran
I'd agree wholeheartedly with your assesment. I have no problem whatsoever with Mexican folks in general. They are mostly God-fearing, hard-working people trying to better themselves and their families. Mexico, if freed from the Kleptocracy that rules it, could become a serious powerhouse. They have abundant natural resources, and a people who are quite capable of making their own country better than it is.

However, they have put up with the kleptocracy for far too long. Like much of the 3rd world, they view corruption as just a normal part of life. Until this worldview can be changed, there is really no hope that the country can live up to its ultimate potential. Also, when they immigrate to this country (both legally and illegally), they bring this worldview with them. Visit some of the border regions in Texas and California. You'll see it.

32 posted on 12/12/2004 9:07:13 AM PST by zeugma (Come to the Dark Side...... We have cookies!)
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To: DoctorMichael
However, the problem with your scenario is that things COULD get worse with a real Socialist, ala Fidel, getting into power down there (IMHO).

Which makes our own government's stalling to do something about the greatest security threat to this nation even more a crime. What exactly is the down side to building a defensive fence on the southern border? We are spending literally hundreds of billions of dollars and are willing to risk thousands of American lives in Iraq under the name of "security", yet if a Fidel Castro or a Hugo Chavez nabs political power in already corrupt and impoverished Mexico and directs the frustrations of the Mexican people against the US even more that it is being directed now, without the security fence, we are left to our 2nd Amendment.

33 posted on 12/12/2004 9:11:04 AM PST by Reuben Hick
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To: zeugma
Also, when they immigrate to this country (both legally and illegally), they bring this worldview with them. Visit some of the border regions in Texas and California. You'll see it.

And for those who don't want to include the US/Mexican border on their immediate travel plans, just consult the "Jesus Land" map that marks red or blue based on counties not by states. You will readily see that "world view" in all of those blue border counties.

There was another map that was published "The Purple America". It is interesting to note that the cities that have called themselves "Safe Harbors" for illegal aliens, (ie. Austin, Dallas, et al) are more and more blueish purple than they were the last election cycle. Coincidence?

34 posted on 12/12/2004 9:27:47 AM PST by Reuben Hick
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

Bump


35 posted on 12/12/2004 9:41:39 AM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("As frightening as terrorism is, it's the weapon of losers." P.J. O'Rourke)
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To: Reuben Hick

Very informative, thanks.


36 posted on 12/12/2004 9:46:44 AM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("As frightening as terrorism is, it's the weapon of losers." P.J. O'Rourke)
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran
I've been saying that about Mexico for awhile:  the pot won't boil over unless you put the lid on it.

A great many of the Mexicans who come to the US are the motivated ones....the ones who would get fed up and revolt against the Mexican government if there were no place to escape to like the US.

I think there's only two practical ways to deal with Mexico: either open the borders and hope the concept of relatively honest government seeps into the Mexican culture over a period of 50 years or so, or clamp down on the border and hope it leads to a revolution in the next 5 or 10 years.

Either way, a lot of people are going to suffer.

37 posted on 12/12/2004 9:53:21 AM PST by Psycho_Bunny (I know a greag deal about the Middle East because Ive been raising Arabian horses" Patrick Swazey)
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran

Some of the biggest oil looters were former presidents of Mexico who made off with billions of US $ in oil money and were never called on to return even a small percentage of their loot. Until the people of Mexico prosecute these high level thieves, we will continue to see wet backs by the hundreds of thousands invading us every year.


38 posted on 12/12/2004 9:58:22 AM PST by Paulus Invictus
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran
When we lived in Mexico, all you needed to get a gun was cash. I think guns are still available to those that want to buy them. Every upper class Mexican I knew carried a pistol with him, even to social events, and it was not a great idea to insult any of these guys, especially if they had some tequila in them. I doubt that has changed any.

A good friend of mine, a noted film actor and director was vocally irritated by a peasant riding a burro across the scene my friend was filming. The peasant made the fatal mistake of yelling an insult to my friend and it was his last insult. The director pulled his pistol and killed the guy who was 70-80 yards away. He was jailed for a short stay, but an insult is an insult in Mexico.

39 posted on 12/12/2004 10:10:42 AM PST by Paulus Invictus
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To: Paulus Invictus

Where did they buy the guns?
Not at the local gun shops, there are none.


40 posted on 12/12/2004 10:21:32 AM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Dan Rather called Saddam "Mister President and President Bush "bush")
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