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For Some, the Race Remains Far From Over (many Ohio RATS won't let it go)
Yahoo News ^ | 12/12/04 | Sam Howe Verhovek

Posted on 12/12/2004 6:00:15 AM PST by Libloather

For Some, the Race Remains Far From Over
47 minutes ago
By Sam Howe Verhovek Times Staff Writer

COLUMBUS, Ohio — Clifford Arnebeck won't let it go. He can't let it go. Not, he says, while America refuses to recognize that John F. Kerry was elected president Nov. 2.

Arnebeck, a Democratic lawyer here and co-chairman of a self-styled national populist alliance, is petitioning the state's highest court to throw out official results that favor President Bush and instead hand Ohio's 20 electoral votes — and thus the White House — to Kerry. Or, at least, order a revote.

The bid appears quixotic, to put it politely, as Bush has been officially declared the winner by 119,000 votes and Arnebeck is arguing before a Republican-dominated Supreme Court in Ohio. Nor is the Massachusetts senator helping him out, said Arnebeck.

"I can't for the life of me understand why Kerry isn't fighting harder for this. Maybe it's some secret Skull and Bones tradition, where you're not supposed to show up the other guy," Arnebeck said, referring to the Yale secret society of which Bush and Kerry were both members.

Most of the country may have moved on, and electoral college slates are due to meet in all 50 states Monday to cast formal votes that will give Bush a 286-252 winning edge and a second term.

Even many who are disturbed by aspects of the recent election — such as long lines at polling places or touch-screen voting machines with no paper trail for audits — say they want future improvements but nonetheless believe Bush won a fair battle.

But for Arnebeck and thousands of others, this contest is far from over.

They feed each other's postelection rage over the Internet, swapping reports about voter suppression and possible computer hacking or other electronic manipulation of the results.

Protests continue to be staged, including a "rally to change the tally" in San Francisco and black-armband demonstrations in Denver and Boston this weekend against what organizers call the "media blackout of election fraud." But they are especially focused on Ohio, whose 20 electoral votes proved crucial.

"I would like to welcome you to Ukraine," said Susan Truitt, a speaker last weekend at a rally outside the Ohio statehouse, where 400 showed up to demand an inquiry into fraud allegations. She was referring to the nation about to hold a new presidential election after protests that the first one was rigged.

The Rev. Jesse Jackson, who also appeared at the rally, cited a recurring grievance of the groups who questioned the legitimacy of Bush's 2004 victory. Why is it, Jackson asked, that exit polls seemed to point toward a Kerry victory that day?

Rather than analyzing faults in the exit polls, Jackson and others say, why aren't the media and public officials digging more aggressively for chicanery in the tabulations?

"We can live with winning and losing," Jackson recently told a Baptist congregation in Columbus. "We cannot live with fraud and stealing."

Officials here are not taking kindly to the charges.

"Jackson owes every election official in Ohio an apology," said Keith Cunningham, vice president of the Ohio Assn. of Election Officials. "His accusations are outrageous, preposterous and baseless."

Because every Ohio county election board has two Democrats and two Republicans, officials here argue, manipulation of voting would require a massive conspiracy.

But that is just what Jackson and various protest groups allege, and they point to what they say are several suspicious occurrences that demand further investigation:

• In several counties, a Democratic candidate for state chief justice got more votes than Kerry, even though she lost statewide by a wider margin than did Kerry, and the overall total of votes cast in her race was 4.4 million, well below the 5.6 million cast in the presidential race.

• A "computer glitch," as local officials called it, recorded an extra 3,893 votes for Bush in suburban Columbus, in a precinct with only 638 votes cast. Officials say they caught the glitch and fixed it, showing that the system works; but protesters say they wonder where else such discrepancies may have gone undetected.

• Long lines forced many Ohioans to wait hours to vote and may have deterred some from voting at all. They were reported to be especially long in urban Democratic areas and in some college towns. Some voters want to know why. At Kenyon College in rural Knox County, a machine malfunction caused some students to wait as long as 10 hours to vote, college officials say, the last emerging at 4 a.m.

Another controversy, which surfaced last year and is a continuing target of outrage, involved the chief executive of Ohio-based Diebold Inc., a major player in the electronic touch-screen voting industry. In an August 2003 invitation to a Bush fundraising event, he wrote that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president."

The official, Walden O'Dell, later described himself to the Cleveland Plain Dealer as "a real novice on the political side," and he amended company policy to prohibit himself and other top officials from making or raising political contributions or engaging in any other political activity other than voting.

Just how many people are actively protesting the election is difficult to gauge, and interviews on the street suggest that a lot of people, Democrats and Republicans alike, just want to put it behind them.

"I voted for Kerry. I wanted him to win. I thought he would win," said Anne Matthieson, an account assistant at a downtown insurance firm. "But he didn't win."

Still, for those who believe otherwise, there are several websites dedicated to the cause. Several have links that allow a person, at the push of a button, to send a message to hundreds of reporters and public officials, demanding further investigation into voting problems. One accuses the media of "cowardice and complicity" in reporting on election results.

The sites are also raising money, enough to pay for a recount of the Ohio vote (which is formally being undertaken on behalf of the Green and Libertarian party presidential candidates, who are both critical of Ohio voting procedures) and for the legal challenge that Arnebeck, the Columbus lawyer, is spearheading.

State officials say the recount will cost more than the $10-per-precinct fee that the challengers are paying.

Kerry, who may be interested in running again in 2008, is walking a bit of a fine line in the matter, encouraging the recount process but dampening any expectation it will yield a political miracle.

"It's important that every vote be counted," said his spokesman, David Wade. "There's no reason to believe the outcome of the election will change."

A Democrat close to the Kerry campaign, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Kerry had received plenty of "do not make this concession" advice from party members.

"It's not just the Internet conspiracy community," said the Kerry ally. "The every-vote-counts community is very strong inside the Democratic Party, and one does not want to discourage them."

Ohio Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell, a Republican who also was co-chairman of the state campaign for Bush and a likely gubernatorial candidate in 2006, said he was just as interested as anyone in counting every vote.

"This was an election where you have some glitches but none of these glitches were of a conspiratorial nature, and none of them would overturn or change the election results," Blackwell said Monday, announcing his certification of the results.

Under the certified results, Bush had 2.86 million votes, or about 51% , to Kerry's 2.74 million, or 49%. After all provisional votes were counted, the Bush margin represented a drop of about 17,000 votes from the totals announced just after election day.

Arnebeck, who has made two unsuccessful runs for Congress and was an Ohio coordinator for Ross Perot, is undeterred. If the court orders a full and thorough investigation, he said, Kerry will win. He wishes Kerry would join the fight.

"He and his people are too ready to disbelieve that Republicans could be this bad," Arnebeck said. "They are this bad. Ballot-box stuffing is an old American tradition, and they've just updated it. I'm not surprised that somebody hacked this vote."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: 2004; crybabies; donks; election; far; from; go; kerry; kerrydefeat; losers; mydiapersmells; ohio; over; race; rats; ratssome; waaaaahhhhh; waaaahchangemydiaper
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"I can't for the life of me understand why Kerry isn't fighting harder for this."

Because he was able to let it go just before conceding?

1 posted on 12/12/2004 6:00:16 AM PST by Libloather
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To: Libloather
Main Entry: de·ni·al
Pronunciation: di-'nI(-&)l, dE-
Function: noun
1 : refusal to satisfy a request or desire
2 a (1) : refusal to admit the truth or reality (as of a statement or charge) (2) : assertion that an allegation is false b : refusal to acknowledge a person or a thing : DISAVOWAL
3 : the opposing by the defendant of an allegation of the opposite party in a lawsuit
4 : SELF-DENIAL
5 : negation in logic
6 : a psychological defense mechanism in which confrontation with a personal problem or with reality is avoided by denying the existence of the problem or reality
2 posted on 12/12/2004 6:03:37 AM PST by quantim (Victory is not relative, it is absolute.)
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To: Libloather
"We cannot live with fraud and stealing." Now that's rich coming from a democRat!
3 posted on 12/12/2004 6:04:14 AM PST by Free_at_last_-2001 (is clinton in jail yet?)
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To: Libloather

It shows what type of mentality these people have when the woman wants the SCOOH "give" the 20 electorial votes to Kerry.

The court doesn't have the authority to do so only the Congress. However, even if Bush doesn't receive the 20 EV, Bush would still win 266-256.


4 posted on 12/12/2004 6:05:15 AM PST by Perdogg (W stands for Winner)
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To: Libloather

"Arnebeck, who has made two unsuccessful runs for Congress and was an Ohio coordinator for Ross Perot"

A loser in every aspect of his political life!


5 posted on 12/12/2004 6:05:51 AM PST by Fireone (Homeland security is 10,000 rounds of ammo and 10 cords of dry firewood.)
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To: Libloather

Its an X-Files Conspiracy. Karl Rove stuffed the Ohio ballot boxes without any one being the wiser. And the DU Dummies are still struggling to explain how he pulled it all off!


6 posted on 12/12/2004 6:06:36 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Libloather

what gets me is this reliance on "exit polls" as if they were gospel. Could it be that some RATS actually woke up and voted for Bush? Could it be that the sample was flawed? NAAAAH, had to be Karl Rove just had to be.


7 posted on 12/12/2004 6:08:11 AM PST by StoneColdTaxHater
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To: Free_at_last_-2001

The words sound ironic coming from Jesse Jackson's mouth, after all his efforts to keep an affair hush hush and keep a love child in the closet.


8 posted on 12/12/2004 6:08:54 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Libloather
Things are going to go badly when liberal enclaves like Cleveland Heights apply for money to a non-existent Kerrry administration! Enjoy.
9 posted on 12/12/2004 6:09:09 AM PST by Ukiapah Heep (Shoes for Industry!)
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To: Libloather
"I can't for the life of me understand why Kerry isn't fighting harder for this."

Because every Ohio Democratic official and party hack knows that Democrats typically steal about 50,000 votes in every Ohio election.

The Democrats know that if a real investigation is done the investigators will find much fraud on Kerry's behalf and none on Bush's. What happened this time is that Bush had enough poll watchers so that it was a lot harder for Democrats to steal votes than it had been in the past.

What the Democrats accomplished by their claims of voter fraud in 2000, is to greatly reduce the amount of fraud the democrats could commit in 2004.

10 posted on 12/12/2004 6:11:53 AM PST by Common Tator
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To: Libloather
......For Some.....

Add the MSM to that list.

11 posted on 12/12/2004 6:11:58 AM PST by DoctorMichael (The Fourth Estate is a Fifth Column!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Common Tator

It makes them pine for the days when they could hold back the votes til they were needed.


12 posted on 12/12/2004 6:14:13 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Free_at_last_-2001

Could you live with another Budweiser franchise, Jesse ?


13 posted on 12/12/2004 6:18:21 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: DoctorMichael

and those that believe Elvis is still alive.


14 posted on 12/12/2004 6:19:01 AM PST by Dutch Boy
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To: Libloather
This is a classic case of weak minded, insignificant and emotionally crippled people finding a cause, however lost or stupid, to champion. This gets them their "15 minutes" even if it is to seen as morons that just can't let that dead horse stay dead. Maybe the reason Kerry is not championing it is he actually (for one of the first times in his life) can see the forest for the trees. It's over, finished, kaputt. He lost, time to get on with life.

This is the only reason they have to get out of bed. Otherwise they would be claiming PEST and living on Prozac and Xanex. When it is finally over they will be forced to go back to the insignificant little people that the were.

Sad, sad little people.
15 posted on 12/12/2004 6:19:06 AM PST by stm
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To: Libloather

If nothing else, the people of Ohio (and the nation) can now identify those on the left who have the political equivalent of rabies. They are beyond reason or hope.


16 posted on 12/12/2004 6:19:41 AM PST by niteowl77
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To: Libloather
"We can live with winning and losing," Jackson recently told a Baptist congregation in Columbus. "We cannot live with fraud and stealing."

This coming from a charlatan who's made his living off fraud and stealing.

17 posted on 12/12/2004 6:24:11 AM PST by Jorge
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To: Libloather
• A "computer glitch," as local officials called it, recorded an extra 3,893 votes for Bush in suburban Columbus, in a precinct with only 638 votes cast. Officials say they caught the glitch and fixed it, showing that the system works; but protesters say they wonder where else such discrepancies may have gone undetected.

Well, it sounds easy enough to figure out to me. Were there any other precincts with more votes cast than voters registered? Name them, RATS. Or shut up.

18 posted on 12/12/2004 6:34:02 AM PST by John Thornton ("Appeasers always hope that the crocodile will eat them last." Winston Churchill)
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To: Free_at_last_-2001
""We cannot live with fraud and stealing."! Now that's rich coming from a democRat"

And not just any democrap, the reverend (of what I still have to figure out) Jesse Jackson. I'll bet his wife has a few things to say about fraud and stealing in their marriage. I'm sure Karin Stanford is not a name spoken kindly of in the Jackson household, at least not by his wife Jacqueline.

He is such a totally worthless POS.
19 posted on 12/12/2004 6:35:37 AM PST by stm
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To: Libloather
After the Electoral College meets tomorrow and puts an end to this garbage, look for Jesse to start shaking down Ohio businesses for money to "improve" the election process.
They of course will be racist if they don`t cough up some dough.

I wonder if the UN oil for food program didn`t get their training from the rainbow/push method of skimming funds.

20 posted on 12/12/2004 6:43:25 AM PST by carlr
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To: Common Tator
I think you are absolutely right! Kerry didn't fight the Ohio results because an investigation would reveal not only the traditional, highly organized and systemic Democrat voter fraud. Kerry knew an investigation would reveal the democrats' newest weapon: the illegal registration and absentee fraud perpetrated by Moveon.org with Soros money.

The Democrats were certain Kerry would win Ohio, "if every vote is counted", their talking heads declared. There's no doubt in my mind that the Kerry campaign was certain of an illegal victory in Ohio. So was John Zogby.

21 posted on 12/12/2004 6:52:59 AM PST by YaYa123 (@Still Savoring Ohio.com)
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To: StoneColdTaxHater
It's funny because they claimed that polls before election day underpolled support for Kerry because of all those cellphones that weren't being polled (Katrina Vanden Heuvel John Batchelor Show November 1st, 2004). Now they want us to believe that exit polls were more accurate than the actual vote. Kerry didn't do all that bad in Ohio. From 2000, the democratic candidate lost by 165,000 votes, this time only by 119,000. Statistical evidence shows that, if any, the fraud was committed by the Democrats.
22 posted on 12/12/2004 6:57:03 AM PST by Perdogg (W stands for Winner)
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To: Libloather

"an inquiry into fraud allegations"

If anyone would know about voting fraud, it would be the "Democrats". Dims, Demo-rats, Demo-crits, Demo-traitors, etc.


23 posted on 12/12/2004 7:10:23 AM PST by garyhope
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To: Libloather
Ballot-box stuffing is an old American tradition,

A Rat tradition, Cliffy. That's how you got Saint JFK to the White House in 1960.

24 posted on 12/12/2004 7:26:40 AM PST by buccaneer81 (Rick Nash will score 50 goals this season ( if there is a season)
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To: garyhope
Ohio elections chief Blackwell told Tony Snow that Diebold had NO machines in Ohio. So much for that theory....

Blackwell, btw, is sharp as a tack and has announced for Governor. Watch him.

25 posted on 12/12/2004 7:28:42 AM PST by chiller (1 down (Jf'nK) and 1 to go (old media))
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To: YaYa123
Illegal votes in Ohio

The Kerry Campaign gave MoveOn.Org and other 527s most of the control of the Grass Roots Democratic Campaign here in Ohio. In the past the Democrats had a fantastic grass roots organization made up of labor union "volunteers." I say "Volunteers" because the workers supplied by the labor unions were not paid. They "volunteered" to keep their jobs. In the past the labor efforts were fantastic. And they got every Democratic voter registered and got most of them to the polls. The were very good at buying votes.

The Soros funded 527s were just plain amateurs. They hired people to register Democratic voters. The hired registrars were paid 10 dollars for every person they registered. Many of these hired guns registered as many as 100 new voters a day. That is an impossible number unless they are just making up name. These hired guns registered a total of over 230 thousand "new" Democratic voters.

What became obvious to the Bush campaign was most of these "new" Democratic voters were names taken from city and county directories. Others were made up names that were given existing addresses. I was one of the Bush Volunteers tasked with checking out these "new" voters. It was obvious. Bush volunteers found as many as 15 people registered all living at the same one bedroom apartment address. They had to be fake.

That is the people they hired just filled out 100 registrations a day. They found the names in county directories, phone books or just made up names and gave them existing addresses. These "NEW" voters did not exist.

The Bush campaign made lists of these so called voters. One possible scenario was that a least some people would show up on election day claiming to be these fake voters and demanding to vote. The Bush campaign was prepared to challenge the fake voters. They never showed.

The conclusion is they Soros funded 527s were ripped off. They was no plan to get ringers to vote these fake registrations. They did try to call them from Democratic party headquarters. That is evidence the Democratic party believed that the Soros funded 527s had actually registered these people.

The Kerry Campaign believed their Soros funded 527s had registered 230 thousand new voters. The truth is those 230 fake voters never voted. They were counting on them to vote. And were very surprised when they did not.

It is interesting to look a the turn out numbers. You may recall that Rush and others were reporting that some Columbus, Ohio precincts had more people registered than there were voting age residents. Those were city precincts where the Soro's paid people had registered tens of thousands of "new" voters. The turn out in Ohio was about 68 percent. It is worth noting the turn out in those city precincts was about 40 percent. That proves the fake voters names were not voted.

The actual truth is that Soros paid rip off artists 1,000 dollars a day to rip him and the Democratic Party off.

Kerry was convinced that he was going to win Ohio because he believed those fake voters were going to vote.

It seems likely to me that the exit pollsters took those registration numbers and used them to weight the turn out in those precincts in Ohio. So the exit polls were very wrong. Wrong because the exit pollsters believed the fake voters were voting. The precincts full of fake registrations actually exit polled at 10 to 1 for Kerry. The registration numbers and the 68 percent turnout projections showed that there should be 1600 votes and that Kerry would get 1400 of them. But the turn out was only 600 voters and Keary actually got 540 votes. If they were counting on 200 democratic presents having 900 more Kerry votes than were actually cast, then they could expect Kerry to have 150 thousand more votes than he got and a 30,000 vote win.

Nearly all of Kerry's 230 "NEW" Democratic voters turned out to be imaginary voters.

The Bush campaign was aware that they were fake three weeks before the election. I was one of two Bush volunteers who helped make that determination for Pike County Ohio. It turned out to be true. The registrations were fake but the Democrats believed them to be real.
26 posted on 12/12/2004 7:39:39 AM PST by Common Tator
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To: Libloather

And because although he (Kerry) is a loathsome, liberal creep, he is not a deluded fool like Arneison.


27 posted on 12/12/2004 7:41:40 AM PST by driftless ( For life-long happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
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To: Free_at_last_-2001

Especially from that paragon of honest financial gains the "Rev" Jackson


28 posted on 12/12/2004 7:42:32 AM PST by nuke rocketeer
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To: Libloather

excuse me ARNEBECK... not Arneison.


29 posted on 12/12/2004 7:42:34 AM PST by driftless ( For life-long happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
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To: Perdogg
Actually, if Ohio were to go into the Kerry column, he would have 272 electoral votes to Bush's 266; 270 EVs are needed to win so (shudder) Kerry would become the president.

Any support by Kerry for a recount, of course, is another flip-flop since a concession means the loser isn't going to contest the election. This guy has no integrity in anything he does, from tossing his medals over the White House fence to spending Christmas in Cambodia.

30 posted on 12/12/2004 7:43:59 AM PST by Menehune56
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To: chiller

I hope Blackwell gets the nomination.

It seems the "establishment" is trying to stick us with Betty Montgomery. If she gets the nomination, I fear much of the GOP base stays home on Election Day. It would be more of the same of what we got now.


31 posted on 12/12/2004 7:44:34 AM PST by Columbus Dawg (Buckeye Country is Bush Country)
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To: Libloather
Or, at least, order a revote

A revote????

And as for those lines??

Millions of Americans across this country voted .. and the left doesn't understand why there would be a line of people waiting to vote??

32 posted on 12/12/2004 7:45:38 AM PST by Mo1 (Should be called Oil for Fraud and not Oil for Food)
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To: edskid

And the people of Ohio can now identify with the Florida voters.

What went on in Florida in 2000 was a "tempest in a teapot". Because of the butterfly ballot and the closeness of the count, all hell broke loose and the Dems thought they could "steal" an election. It wasn't any more confusing that wnat happens in most states if that state is placed under a microscope.

And Ohio did not "win" this election for Bush, Ohio was no more important than a half dozen other close states that had a narrow victory for Kerry. The parts make the whole, and we could just as easily be counting PA or WI or MI to see why Bush didn't win those states but since Kerry won, the Dems aren't concerned about "every" vote being counted in those states.

So in Florida because there was so much screaming about the punch cards and hanging chads in 2000, we changed to touch screen, and now that Harris woman is claiming the touch screens were manipulated in Florida.

Well, excuse me, but if they don't want punch cards, they don't trust touch screens, and they don't like optical scanners, they're a little too conspiratorial for me.


33 posted on 12/12/2004 7:47:56 AM PST by dawn53
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To: Libloather

"I would like to welcome you to Ukraine," said Susan Truitt, a speaker last weekend at a rally outside the Ohio statehouse, where 400 showed up to demand an inquiry into fraud allegations"

That was their big rally last week that was going to let the world know that Bush couldn't have possibly won. They had visions of the entire city being covered by demos protesting. 400 people gathered from all around the country. Now if 400 doesn't send a clear message...


34 posted on 12/12/2004 7:50:10 AM PST by InTheRight
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To: Libloather

I would be much more impressed with these count every vote people if they were looking into the closer races like WI, NH or even PA.

What? Kerry won those, so by definition there could have been no fraud in those? Never mind then.


35 posted on 12/12/2004 7:52:07 AM PST by Let's Roll (Democrats - What happens when mental illness manifests itself as a political party.)
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To: Libloather
I am absolutely bloody fed up with these people. One more time for the benefit of the Democrats:

YOU LOST!

Bloody well shut up and suck on a tailpipe if you don't like it, you whingeing crybabies.

Ivan

36 posted on 12/12/2004 7:57:03 AM PST by MadIvan (Gothic. Freaky. Conservative. - http://www.rightgoths.com/)
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To: Menehune56
I may be wrong but I believe that for the 20 ecv to go into the Kerry column there would have to be a re-vote and Kerry would need to win. Otherwise the results of the election in Ohio and the 20 ev would be set aside due to irregularities that would cause a protracted legal challenge interfering with the Jan 20, 2005 final certification date. Bush's victory in this case would be maintained.
37 posted on 12/12/2004 8:02:39 AM PST by JoeV1 (The Democrats-The unlawful and corrupt leading the uneducated and blind)
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To: Columbus Dawg

Who is Betty Montgomery? Popular? Able to beat Blackwell in a primary?


38 posted on 12/12/2004 8:05:12 AM PST by chiller (1 down (Jf'nK) and 1 to go (old media))
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To: Libloather

Any mind that is capable of accepting and believing in the delusional, provably false economic theory of socialism doesn't have to far to jump to accept the conspiracy theory that John Kerry really won.


39 posted on 12/12/2004 8:10:08 AM PST by Hardastarboard
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To: Common Tator
Your post has more information on the voting in Ohio than the last ten million Dummie posts.

Thanks.
40 posted on 12/12/2004 8:10:25 AM PST by cgbg
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To: Perdogg
"However, even if Bush doesn't receive the 20 EV, Bush would still win 266-256."

Sorry to point this out, but unless you have some sort of subtle reasoning that isn't obvious to me, your calculations aren't correct.

The EV is 286-252. If the President had lost Ohio and all of the other states remained unchanged, W would have 266 and sKerry would have 272.

The 20 Ohio votes would not simply disappear.

41 posted on 12/12/2004 8:27:49 AM PST by Positive (Nothing is sadder than to see a beautiful theory murdered by a gang of brutal facts.)
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To: Common Tator; Liz; Howlin
The Bush campaign was aware that they were fake three weeks before the election.

What I found strange, other than Effin' Kerry winning Iowa after being in third place a day before, was how Big Media picked Ohio to be SO close and important for Effin' Kerry about six months out from the election. New Jersey was supposed to be in play for Dubya. Hawaii popped up at the last minute. But no state had so much attention paid to it like Ohio did. Even Floriduh wasn't paid attention to as much because it was supposed to have had it's problems fixed from the 2000 debacle.

I thought something was fishy from the beginning...

42 posted on 12/12/2004 8:32:23 AM PST by Libloather (Big Media news anchors are as worthless as male nipples...)
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To: Columbus Dawg
It seems the "establishment" is trying to stick us with Betty Montgomery.

If the Republican Nominee is Betty Montgomery then I for one will vote for whomever the Democrats nominate.

I would rather have a real Democrat Governor for Ohio rather than a fake Democrat like Betty Montgomery.

If you hate conservatives then you love Betty Montgomery and Vice Versa

Ken Blackwell is My Man.. He is indeed a GREAT AMERICAN!!!


43 posted on 12/12/2004 8:52:34 AM PST by Common Tator
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To: JoeV1
No, you misunderstand the process. Once the certified electors votes are sent to Washington, D.C. there is NO stopping the process by outside legal action. There is NO court which may interfere at that point. It is up to the Joint Session of Congress to ascertain the legitimacy of the electors' votes when they are counted.

No other body has any say in the matter, so 'litigation' will stop nothing. Many lawyers seem to forget that the Founding Fathers already thought this one through...


dvwjr
44 posted on 12/12/2004 9:30:16 AM PST by dvwjr
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To: Jorge
"We cannot live with fraud and stealing."

The pimpster didn't finish.

"We cannot live with fraud and stealing that doesn't go our way"

45 posted on 12/12/2004 9:34:51 AM PST by evad (DUmmie FUnnies and Pookie Toons-the start of a nice day)
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To: dvwjr
Thanks for clearing that up.

So this recount effort is all for nothing? Do I understand you correctly that even if the recount finds enough votes to give Kerry the victory it must go to the Congress for a vote before he would actually be declared the winner?
46 posted on 12/12/2004 9:57:31 AM PST by JoeV1 (The Democrats-The unlawful and corrupt leading the uneducated and blind)
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To: chiller

Betty Montgomery has been attorney general of the state. She has been fairly quiet as far as statewide visibility. I don't know whether she is even very conservative or not. If she is a candidate it will be because the party insiders decided it is her turn. Sort of a Bob Dole thing.

Blackwell has of course had a lot of statewide publicity, and in a primary I would think he would be the favorite.


47 posted on 12/12/2004 10:02:03 AM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: Libloather

If anyone would like to dend the good Mr Arnebeck an email, his addy is arnebeck@aol.com


48 posted on 12/12/2004 10:16:52 AM PST by stm
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To: JoeV1
You are correct. The recount is for nothing, except to satisfy those minor third-party and 'bitterenders' who want the counting to go on and on and on...

The Ohio Legislature, as do all of the other States in the Union uses the popular vote of the People of the State to allocate its 20 Electoral College votes. The Ohio Legislature determined that it would assign ALL of its alloted Federal Electoral College votes to the winner of the Federal general election held in November of this year. The popular vote totals were certified by the Ohio Secretary of State, Mr. Blackwell and the Bush slate of 20 Ohio Electoral votes for President Bush was chosen and will be voted tommorrow in Columbus, Ohio on Monday December 13th. The Governor of the State of Ohio will authenticate both the Certificates of Ascertainment and Certificates of Votes with his signature and the State Seal. These documents and their certified copies will then be transmitted to the multiple appropriate authorities in Washington, D.C as required by Fedral statute.

Given the problems with the presidential election of 1876 between the winner Hayes(R) and Tilden(D) Federal Statues were enacted which ensured that there would be no contesting of a States electoral votes transmitted to the Federal Capitol if said electors were determined six days prior to their meeting in their State capitol to vote in the Electoral College. This is the so-called 'safe-harbor' provision adopted by the 45th Congress still holds sway today. All Congresses since the 45th are still bound to honor this law, so the Bush slate of electors votes transmitted must be accepted by the 109th Congress in January 2005.

Now if the recount would somehow change the popular vote result, or the Ohio Supreme Court would somehow order that ANOTHER slate of Kerry electors would be sent to the Federal capitol then the 109th Congress would deal with the possible two slates of Ohio electors. The bottom line - the Bush slate would be counted and Bush is determined to have a majority of the elctoral votes and is elected President of the United States.

Here is a source with all the technical details:

Source: 4President.org

Hope this helps,

dvwjr

49 posted on 12/12/2004 10:53:04 AM PST by dvwjr
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To: Libloather
"I can't for the life of me understand why Kerry isn't fighting harder for this."

Because he's not a barking LW moonbat like you

50 posted on 12/12/2004 11:31:04 AM PST by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestus globus, inflammare animos)
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