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N.M. Church May Use Special hallucinogenic Tea for Christmas Services, SCOTUS
Yahoo ^ | 12.10.04

Posted on 12/12/2004 6:31:17 PM PST by Coleus

N.M. Church May Use Special Tea for Now

Fri Dec 10, 8:09 PM ET

By MARY PEREA, Associated Press Writer

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. - The U.S. Supreme Court (news - web sites) sided Friday with a New Mexico church that wants to use hallucinogenic tea as part of its Christmas services, despite government objections that the tea is illegal and potentially dangerous.

The high court lifted a temporary stay issued last week against using the hoasca tea while it decides whether the Brazil-based O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao do Vegetal is permitted to make it a permanent part of its services.

The legal battle began after federal agents seized 30 gallons of the tea in a 1999 raid on the Santa Fe home of the church's U.S. president, Jeffrey Bronfman.

Bronfman sued the government for the right to use the tea and the church won a preliminary injunction, which was upheld by 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals (news - web sites) in Denver. The Bush administration then took the case to the Supreme Court.

"They're delighted," attorney Nancy Hollander said of the church members she represented. "They're so thrilled that they can celebrate Christmas for the first time since 1998."

Bronfman and attorneys for the government did not immediately return calls seeking comment.

The church, which has about 140 members in the United States and 8,000 worldwide, said the herbal brew is a central sacrament in its religious practice, which is a blend of Christian beliefs and traditions rooted in the Amazon basin.

Hollander said the tea is drunk in a ritual similar to the Catholic Communion. Church members then sit in a circle and meditate; they believe the tea brings them closer to God.

The tea is brewed from plants found in the Amazon River Basin and contains DMT, which officials say is a controlled substance under an international treaty.

However, Bronfman's complaint contends the tea is "non-addictive, is not harmful to human health and poses none of the risks commonly found with the use of certain controlled substances."

The church had drawn parallels to federal protection for members of the Native American Church using peyote, which also has hallucinogenic properties.



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: New Mexico
KEYWORDS: 1stamendment; churchandstate; constitutionlist; cults; donutlist; donutwatch; firstamendment; hispaniccults; newmexico; nm; religiousfreedom; religioustolerance; scotus; scotuslist; substanceabuse; tea; usconstitution; wod; wodlist
They can get high on Tea while a Catholic Priest is threatened with arrest by the police for using a whole 2 oz. of wine while celebrating mass outside a Colorado Abortion Mill.  Nah, there's no bias against Catholics and/or the Culture of Life.
 
Colorado Priest busted for Communion wine, Wants variance to Celebrate Mass outside abortion clinic

1 posted on 12/12/2004 6:31:18 PM PST by Coleus
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To: 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; annalex; ...


2 posted on 12/12/2004 6:32:30 PM PST by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: Coleus

OK
So now if I decide to start my own "church" and decide that one of the rituals is smoking dope or shooting crank I would be legal.
If I get busted I complain of religious/racial discrimination.


Right???


3 posted on 12/12/2004 6:39:29 PM PST by 76834
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To: Coleus
However, Bronfman's complaint contends the tea is "non-addictive, is not harmful to human health and poses none of the risks commonly found with the use of certain controlled substances."

Yep, heard that before on FR about 4 zillion times.

4 posted on 12/12/2004 6:50:50 PM PST by LowOiL (Christian and proud of it !)
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To: Coleus
However, Bronfman's complaint contends the tea is "non-addictive, is not harmful to human health and poses none of the risks commonly found with the use of certain controlled substances."

Yep, heard that before on FR about 4 zillion times.

5 posted on 12/12/2004 6:51:25 PM PST by LowOiL (Christian and proud of it !)
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To: 76834
So now if I decide to start my own "church" and decide that one of the rituals is smoking dope or shooting crank I would be legal.

If I get busted I complain of religious/racial discrimination.

Right???

Wrong - these people are "grandfathered in" because their established religious use of DMT predates the laws and treaties against it. NO psychotropic drugs (except perhaps, cannabis) were illegal before the '60s.

6 posted on 12/12/2004 6:55:46 PM PST by mfulstone
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To: mfulstone

So What?
I can trace my family tree back to 1703.
So why aint I "grandfathered"
Also if Jesse "Reverunnnd" Jacksooooon can start a church why cant I??


7 posted on 12/12/2004 6:59:09 PM PST by 76834
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To: Coleus
the Santa Fe home of the church's U.S. president, Jeffrey Bronfman.

There is more wierd stuff in that burg..........

8 posted on 12/12/2004 7:00:58 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: 76834

Can I join? Where do I sign up?


9 posted on 12/12/2004 7:02:05 PM PST by libertyman
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To: Coleus; martin_fierro; cyborg; arasina; fortunecookie

Nothing says Christmas like hallucinogenic tea.


10 posted on 12/12/2004 7:03:28 PM PST by Petronski (Sleepin' on the interstate, ah whoa-o, Gettin' wild, wild life.)
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To: Petronski
Oh yeah!?

I can make a rum cake that will make you see God!

11 posted on 12/12/2004 7:04:39 PM PST by Cogadh na Sith (--Scots Gaelic: 'War or Peace'--)
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To: libertyman

Just send your generous love offering to the "Grand Poobah snd Reveruund 76834"

If your love offering is large enuf we just might send you a prayer cloth......


12 posted on 12/12/2004 7:04:44 PM PST by 76834
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To: Cogadh na Sith
I can make a rum cake that will make you see God!

LOL

13 posted on 12/12/2004 7:05:13 PM PST by Petronski (Sleepin' on the interstate, ah whoa-o, Gettin' wild, wild life.)
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To: libertyman

More:
Cash or Money orders preferred.
If check, your prayer cloth will not be sent till the check clears the bank.

That ripping noise in the background is me tearing up old socks and underwear getting them ready to ship.


14 posted on 12/12/2004 7:07:41 PM PST by 76834
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To: Cogadh na Sith

Copy that!

I make a Christmas "Nog" that will put you down like a horse if you're not careful with it.

It doesn't have any egg in it, so I just didn't feel right calling it "egg nog".

Plus, just "Nog" gives you at least a small warning - it sounds strong, and it is.


15 posted on 12/12/2004 7:18:35 PM PST by The Coopster
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To: The Coopster

Just do Wild Turkey on the rocks.
Without the rocks.....


16 posted on 12/12/2004 7:20:10 PM PST by 76834
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To: Coleus
"They're so thrilled that they can celebrate Christmas for the first time since 1998."

Funny, I have not had any difficulty celebrating Christmas lately ...

17 posted on 12/12/2004 7:23:28 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (The fourth estate is a fifth column.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

All we Catholics have is red wine.


18 posted on 12/12/2004 7:36:45 PM PST by John Will
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To: All

This "shroom tea" is known as yage, and the Indians of Brazil and Peru have used it for centuries. Here is an article here: http://www.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/yage.html

Why exactly they are allowed to do it here is another matter entirely.


19 posted on 12/12/2004 7:51:18 PM PST by No_Outcome_But_Victory (Please pray for Ann, my pregnant wife. (High risk pregnancy.))
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To: Coleus

Ayahuasca can also be made with common plants found in the CONUS.

Several plants contain DMT, while others contain Harmine.

The people who use the stuff don't do it just to get high, it's not a party. It really is used for religious purposes and there really is a history going way back.


20 posted on 12/12/2004 8:20:18 PM PST by DBrow
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To: libertyman
Can I join? Where do I sign up?

They do not take kindly to thrill seeking white people.

21 posted on 12/12/2004 9:33:27 PM PST by Salman
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To: libertyman

Dave's not here.


22 posted on 12/13/2004 1:09:14 AM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: 76834

Needs more Wild Turkey...


23 posted on 12/13/2004 1:10:51 AM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: Coleus

It's called Ayahuasca and it's in these days. No. I haven't taken it. I just read Sting's autobiography and starts off with him and his wife in Brazil taking Ayahuasca.


24 posted on 12/13/2004 1:15:23 AM PST by dennisw (Help put the "Ch" back in Chanukah)
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To: dennisw
http://www.ayahuasca.com/

About
Ayahuasca.com is a library and community collectively researching the botany, ethnography, mythology, arts, music, therapeutic mechanisms, and phenomenology of the Amazonian Spirit Vine.

Ayahuasca (aya-soul/dead, wasca-vine/rope) or Yage (ya-hey) are native Amazonian names for the jungle vine Banisteriopsis Caapi, and the medicinal tea prepared from it.

The Banisteriopsis vine is a Malpighiaceous jungle liana found in the tropical regions of Peru, Bolivia, Panama, Brazil, the Orinoco of Venezuela and the Pacific Coast of Colombia/Ecuador. The vine constitutes the common base ingredient of the Ayahuasca tea which is used widely used throughout indigenous Amazonia to enable access to the visionary or mythological world that provides revelation, healing, and ontological security (Dobkin De rios 1972, Grof 1994, Andritsky 1984).

To learn more about Ayahuasca, read the 'Spirit Vine' FAQ, visit the forums, and browse the various sections of the site via the menubar to the left.


25 posted on 12/13/2004 1:19:32 AM PST by dennisw (Help put the "Ch" back in Chanukah)
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To: DBrow

I know of a teacher who taught her students to get high by mixing mullin weed and sugar then smoking it!


26 posted on 12/13/2004 6:38:41 PM PST by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: DBrow

It really is used for religious purposes and there really is a history going way back. >>>

It doesn't make it right.


27 posted on 02/03/2005 3:58:12 PM PST by Coleus (Abortion and Euthanasia, Don't Democrats just kill ya! Kill babies, Save the Bears!!)
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To: Coleus

Coleus, what makes it wrong?

BTW, did you pick your screen name knowing it was a hallucinogenic plant?


28 posted on 02/03/2005 5:37:00 PM PST by DBrow
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To: DBrow

Is it? I never smoked it.

I think any drug use which alters the mind is wrong.


29 posted on 02/03/2005 5:38:41 PM PST by Coleus (What was Ted Kennedy and his nephew doing on Good Friday in 1991? Getting Drunk and Raping Women)
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To: Coleus

Well, I can respect your opinion.

There are many religions, including Christianity, that use mind-altering substances as part of their sacrament, though, and I see these South Americans as doing just that.


30 posted on 02/04/2005 7:42:02 AM PST by DBrow
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To: DBrow

I just can't understand why someone needs to be "high" in order to pray for God. Most of us do fine without anything. Some actually fast before going to church.


31 posted on 02/04/2005 10:43:08 PM PST by Coleus (Oppose Amnesty for Illegal Aliens http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1335643/posts)
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To: Coleus

Alcohol alters the mind, so do antidepressents.


32 posted on 02/04/2005 10:46:27 PM PST by Clemenza (I Am Here to Chew Bubblegum and Kick Ass, and I'm ALL OUT OF BUBBLEGUM!)
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Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: Coleus

I never tried hosaca and don't need to. These people, if I understand correctly, feel that God gave them the plants and God helps them communicate with Him through using the plants. If I had grown up in that culture, I probably would accept it as I now accept transmogrification and Communion wine.

These guys are not party animals; their use of the stuff is in a limited, specific, narrow way that I don't think crosses the line into "getting high" or "abuse". They use it as a sacrament and an adjunct to understanding trancendant issues. I can't see making them change their established religious practices to stay out of jail and keep their property (or be forced to leave the USA, because God showed them a particular way to worship).

We probably won't see eye to eye on this, Coleus, but that's OK, it's a big world (and thank God for Free Republic, where we can discuss stuff like this).


34 posted on 02/06/2005 6:08:35 PM PST by DBrow
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To: DBrow
Yep, that's what the fr is all about except when you post anit-illegal immigration activism, then you are put in the Smokey back room as punishment and threatened to have your fr account suspended by freepmail. go figure.
35 posted on 02/06/2005 8:11:32 PM PST by Coleus (Oppose Amnesty for Illegal Aliens http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1335643/posts)
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To: DBrow
http://www.idecefyn.com.ar/mmcv01/01.pdf reviews the use of the active drug in this so-called "tea" and finds that it appears to induce schizophrenia in its users.

Must be what Dr. Dean was in to during the campaign.

36 posted on 02/10/2005 7:00:15 PM PST by muawiyah ((how cynical can we sound today))
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To: Clemenza
http://www.idecefyn.com.ar/mmcv01/01.pdf shows that this "tea" not only "alters the mind", it replaces it with schizophrenia.

You should bother to inform yourself about this one a bit more.

37 posted on 02/10/2005 7:01:27 PM PST by muawiyah ((how cynical can we sound today))
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To: DBrow
http://www.idecefyn.com.ar/mmcv01/01.pdf says they also induce schizophrenia in themselves.
38 posted on 02/10/2005 7:02:47 PM PST by muawiyah ((how cynical can we sound today))
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To: Coleus

My limited grasp of Spanish and Portuguese makes that name lool likd "Center of the Beneficent Spirit (something) of grass". Sounds like it's a group of pot-heads.


39 posted on 02/10/2005 7:09:06 PM PST by Aarchaeus
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To: muawiyah

Very interesting article, thank you for digging it out.

It does not say that hosaca induces schizophrenia, though; it does say that they find DMT in the urine of people who drink DMT beverages, and that they find it in schizophrenic urine also. You'd expect to find DMT in the urine of a hosaca drinker, he drank DMT. They are researching a theory that schizophrenia is caused by the brain demethylating an existing brain chemical into DMT, hence their interest in hosaca and ayahuasca. They looked for other chemicals in the hosaca drinker's urine, and either looked or planned to look for the same stuff in the schizophrenic's urine. It was surprising to see a reduction in serotonin levels, I would have expected an increase in serotonin when ingesting beta carbolines and substituted tryptamines.


The article mentions the transient nature of the experience- "rapid onset and brief duration", whereas schizophrenia as mentioned is persistent.


The psycomimetetic theory of hallucinogens like DMT has been dropped from most research, mostly because the hallucinogens' effect does not mimic psychosis, nor does the intoxicated state resemble schizophrenia. This research was performed before 1968, mostly; it is illegal to research it in the USA, which is probably why the work was performed in Argentina.

www.maps.org is a good source for current research.


40 posted on 02/11/2005 2:38:32 PM PST by DBrow
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To: DBrow
Full blown schizophrenia is usually arrived at after a substantial period of time. We might even suggest it's victims practice how to get along with it.

My thought is that if you use this tea and you jump right into the essence of schizophrenia without having tried to cope with the experience. Besides, you are expecting hallucinations!

A good experiment would be to find someone willing to be a "heavy user", say one of those guys nailing down 131 marijuana cigarettes a week, and have him drink this tea for a couple of months.

Bet he'd try to come to grips with the visions.

41 posted on 02/11/2005 2:46:50 PM PST by muawiyah ((how cynical can we sound today))
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To: DBrow

It's use and importation were while not common, at least
legal up until a few years ago, now of course it has risen
high enough to be on the radar and now another entheogen
is denied the people.

The term, "getting high" doesn't really apply to something
as awesome as these natural entheobotanicals, that experience is not exactly "fun".


42 posted on 02/11/2005 2:48:45 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: 76834

I realize this reply is rather late - I just found this thread while searching for something else on the SCOTUS...

But - you are exactly correct - with this ruling, I cannot see how you could be prosecuted as long as your drug use was restricted to religious ceremonies.

Of course, you had better not call your new religion anything "Christian" sounding - or the newly found freedom won't apply to you.


43 posted on 03/01/2005 4:46:56 PM PST by TheBattman (Islam (and liberals)- the cult of Satan)
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