Posted on 12/13/2004 9:51:59 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
1.)Dr. Dean Hamer who failed to find a "gay gene":
"Homosexuality is not purely genetic. Environmental factors play a role. There is not a single master gene that makes people gay. I don't think that we will ever be able to predict who will be gay."
2.) Dr. Dean Hamer was asked by Scientific American if homosexuality was rooted solely in biology. He replied:
"Absolutely not. From twin studies we already know that half or more of the variability in sexual orientation is not inherited. Our studies try to pinpoint the genetic factors, not negate the psychosocial factors."
("New Evidence of a "Gay Gene," by Anastasia Toufexis, Time, November 13, 1995, Vol. 146. Issue 20, p.95)
3.) British researchers generated comparable results in an identical-twin study. Their conclusion? The suprisingly low odds that both twins were homosexual.
The study by them: "confirmed that genetic factors are insufficient explanation for the development of sexual orientation."
(King, M and McDonald, E. Homosexuals Who Are Twins: A Study of 46 Probands. British Journal of Psychiatry. 160: 407-409 (1992).
4a.)Homosexual researcher Simon Levay, who studied the hypothalamic differences between the brains of heterosexuals and homosexuals:
"I didn't show that gay men are born that way the msot common mistake people make in interpreting my work. Nor did I locate a gay center in the brain."
4b.)Dr. Simon Levay: The most widely held opinion [on causation of homosexuality] is that multiple factors play a role.
Levay, Simon (1996). Queer Science, MIT Press.
5.) Dr. J. Satinover:
"Research studies on homosexuality by Dr's Dean Hamer, Michael Bailey, Richard Dillard, Simon Levay. Laura Allen and Roger Gorski have failed to show proof of a gay gene. There is no scientific evidence that shows that homosexuality is genetic. The media has sensationalized and perpetuated the myth of a homosexual gene."
Satinover, J. M.D. (1996) Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth. Grand Rapids. Baker Books
6.) Another of Dr. Jeffery Satinover's conclusions in "The Gay Gene":
"There is no evidence that shows that homosexuality is genetic--and none of the resaerch itself claims there is. Only the press and certain researchers do when speaking in sound bites to the public."
(Jeffery Satinover, M.D. The Journal of Human Sexuality, 1996, p.8)
7.) The American Psychological Association:
"Many scientists share the view that sexual orientation is shaped for many people at an early age through complex interactions of biology, psychological and social factors."
(The American Psychological Association's pamphlet "Answers to Your Questions About Sexual Orientation and Homosexuality."
8.) The American Psychiatric Association (2000):
"no replicated scientific studies showing any specific biological etiology for homosexuality."
9.) Sociologist Steven Goldberg:
"I know of no one in the field who argues that homosexuality can be explained without reference to environmental factors."
(Goldberg, Steven (1994) When Wish Replaces Thought: Why So Much of What You Believe is False. Buffalo, New York: Prometheus Books.
10a.) Science, 1994:
"Time and time again, scientists have claimed that particular genes or chromosomal regions are associated with behavioral traits only to withdraw their findings when they were not replicated. "Unfortunately," says Yale's [Dr. Joel] Gelernter: "It's hard to come up with many findings linking specific genes to complex human behaviors that have been replicated...all were announced with great fanfare, all were greeted unskeptically in the popular press; all are now in disrepute."
(Mann, C. "Genes and Behavior." Science 264: 1687 (1994), pp. 1686-1689.)
10b.) "The interactions of genes and environment is much more complex than the simple "violence genes" and "intelligence genes" touted in the popular press."
Mann, C. op. cit. pp. 1686-1689
11.) Two genetics researchers, one at Harvard, commented in Technology Review, July 1993 p. 60 concerning twin study's.
"While the authors interpreted their findings as evidence for a genetic basis for homosexuality, we think that the data, in fact, provide strong evidence for the influence of the environment."
(Billings, P. and Beckwith, J. Technology Review, July 1993. p.60)
12.) P. Scott Richards:
"Some environmental and psychological factors that may play a causal role in the development of homosexuality include: (1) cross-gender effiminate behavior in childhood. (2) gender-identity deficits (3) hostile, dteached or absent fathers (which leads to "defensive detachment" from the father and other males) and (4) overly close, controlling or dominating mothers.
(P. Scott Richards, "The Treatment of Homosexuality: Some Historical, Contemporary and Personal Perspectives," AMCAP Journal. Vol 19, No. 1, 1993, pg. 36)
13.) Lesbian biologist Dr. Anne Fausto-Sterling of Brown University, responding to the "born that way" argument:
"It provides a legal argument that is, at the moment actually having some sawy in court. For me, it's a very shaky palce. It's bad science and bad politics. It seems to me that the way we consider homosexuality in our culture is an ethical and a moral one."
14.) Camille Paglia, lesbiam activist: "Homosexuality is 'not normal'. On the contrary it is a challenge to the norm. Nature exists whether academics like it or not. And in nature, procreation is the single, relentless rule. That is the norm. Our sexual bodies were designed for reproduction. No one is born gay. The idea is ridiculous. Homosexuality is an adaptation, not an inborn trait."
Camille Paglia: " Is the gay identity so fragile that it cannot bear the thought that some people may not wish to be gay? Sexuality is highly fluid, and reversals are theoretically possible. However, habit is highly refractory, and once the sensory pathways have been blazed -- a phenmenon obvious in the struggle with obesity, smoking, alcoholism or drug addiction...helping to learn how to function heterosexually, if they wish, is a perferctly worthy aim."
Camille Paglia: " We should be honest enough to consider whether homosexuality may not indeed be a pausing at the prepubscent stage where children anxiously band together bt gender...current gay cant insists that homosexuality is 'not a choice'; that no one would choose to be gay in a homophobic society. But there is an element of choice in all behavior, sexual or otherwise. It takes an effort to deal with the opposite sex; it is safer to deal with your own kind. The issue is one of challenge versus comfort."
Boys victimized by older men are far more likely to be homosexual as adults, and the cycle often repeats itself. More environmental factors.
15.) Noted child sex-abuse expert David Finkelhor found that "boys victimized by older men were over four times more likley to be currently engaged in homosexual activity than were non-victims. The finding applied to nearly half the boys who had such an experience. Further, the adolescents themselves often linked their homosexuality to their victimization experiences."
(Bill Watkins & Aaron Bentovim, "The Sexual Bause of Male Adolescents: A Review of Current Research, " Journal of Child Psychiatry 33, (1992); in Byren Finkelman, Sexual Abuse(New York: Garland Publishing, 1995), p. 316
16.) The Archives of Sexual Behavior:
"One of the most salient findings of this study is that 46% of homosexual men and 22% of homosexual women reported having been molested by a person of the same gender."
(Marie, E. Tomeo "Comparative Data of Childhood and Adolescent Molestation in Heterosexual and Homosexual Persons." Archives of Sexual Behavior 30 (2001): 539)
17.) A study of 279 homosexual and bisexual men with Aids and control patients reported:
"More than half of both case and control patients reported a sexual act with a male by age 16 years, approximately 20% by age 10 years."
(Harry W. Haverkos, "The Initiation of Male Homosexual Behavior," The Journal of the American Medical Association 262 (July 28, 1989): 501)
18.) A stduy of 229 convicted child molesters found that:
"86% of offenders against males described themselves as homosexual or bisexual."
(W.D. Erickson, Behavior Patterns of Child Molesters, Archives of Sexual Behavior 17 (1988): 83)
19.) A National Institue of Justice report states that:
"the odds that a childhood sexual abuse victim will be arrested as an adult for any sex crime is 4.7 times higher than for people...who experienced no victimization as children."
(Cathy Spatz Widom, "Victims of Childhood Sexual Abuse - Later Criminal Consequences, Victims of Childhood Sexual Abuse Series: NIJ Research in Brief (March 1995): 6)
20.) A Child Abuse and Neglect study found that 59% of male child sex offenders had beenvictims of contact sexual abuse as a child.
(Michelle Elliott, "Child Sexual Abuse Prevention: What offenders Tell Us" Child Abuse and Neglect 19, (1995): 582)
If they are "born that way", then how does that explain the 'LUG' (Lesbian Until Graduation) crowd? :-)
Big time wrong on one of your points my friend. God cares very deeply about your sex life. If you think otherwise, you are reading the Bible with a very big eraser in your hand.
>> As far celibacy goes, this is not something that is mandated for priest in scripture at all. <<
Well, actually Paul DOES recommend chastity for those who are capable of controlling their passions and wish to devote their lives to the service of Christ. The Roman Catholic Church's Western (Latin) Patriarchy, in its prudence, decided that it would be best to choose such people for the priesthood. The matter is strictly prudential, and is not doctrine. But it is a prudence which adheres to the advice of St. Paul.
At the same time, the Catholic Church has emphasized that one need not be a priest to demonstarte devotion to God. Men and women who chose parenthood over the "religious life" have been made canonical saints (a recognition that they have placed service God above all else in their lives). But a father must place the needs of those whom God has entrusted to him through parenthood and the sacrament of marriage above the needs of everyone else, and so the Western Church deems it best to select those who have placed parochial ministry above all else.
What IS truly tragic is the notion, which was apparently commonly held among religious Catholic homophiles in America that being a priest is a fall-back position for those who are incapable of marriage.
From the time my younger brother was about 6, we knew he was a fruiter. He didn't disappoint. That boy is queerer than Liberace. And he would tell you that he was always ALWAYS a fag, and that it was never a choice.
I've gone through one analysis of studies from Colombia & Yale and another from Cambridge. The latter concludes that, "…it seems reasonable to conclude that male homosexuality, or, at least, some 'types' of male homosexuality, are under some degree of genetic control, although various problems with this data prevent more precise conclusions from being drawn.
The former goes a step or two further toward environment and says that the data is inconstant with a simple genetic influence model", that "there's substantial support for the role of social influences ", and that "its consistent with a general model that allows for genetic expression of same-sex attraction under specific, highly circumscribed, social conditions." "
Since they weren't born that way, were they sucked into it? :^D
I have a relative who has said the same thing. He says that he has known from a very early age.
You mean the ones observed in zoo's or in the wild? See any parallels from prison inmates in long term incarceration? You've been had.
Ummmm... what else do you expect them to say?
If a thief tells you that he just knew that he was meant to steal since the age of 4 do we then accept what they say as truth and help them lead their "genetically forced lifestyle" of stealing?
What about the people who have sex with farm animals and claim that they wanted to do Porky Pig since they were three? Should we accept and endorse their behavior? It certainly "does no harm" to others, as the homosexual lobby would say.
Oh yes..The only thing that heterosexual guys envy about homosexuals is the ability for Queers to come on like gang busters straight to the point when there looking for some extra curricular activity....
No beating around the fluff and stuff bush with them...
Baby raping pedophiles believe that they are born that way
So does hog and horse lovers, simply madness, these people once worked in the circus...
And you just accept that at face value? What did you do to help your brother turn away from his perversion? Nothing? I suggest your were either too lazy or too indifferent to help him, it must be easier to believe homosexual propaganda than to investigate the root cause. Too bad for him.
What behavior did you observe a 6-year old kid do that convinced you he was gay? Did he install track lighting in Star Wars Death Star action set? I can't help thing of the Saturday Night Live ads for "Homocil."
There is a birth defect in some Spanish peoples where a male's genitalia do not descend until the child is several years old. As a result, little boys are mistaken for being little girls, and are often raised as girls for several years. Homosexuality is fairly prevalent among children with disorder, even though there is no apparent linkage to hormonal levels. When I had most recently read about it, it was thought that the homosexuality was a result of literal gender confusion.
I have been concerned that the homosexual fixation Western society now has results in sexually ambigous, effeminate children assuming homosexual identities. I would, however, presume that most such children would tend towards bisexuality, not strict homosexuality. So I ask this to be informed, and not to make a rhetorical point: Is he bisexual, or strictly homosexual?
"Caged, Lesbian Bunnies In Heat."
Hate to rain on anyone's parade, but studies indicate there are both genetic and environmental factors involved in sexual orientation. This would mean that for some inividuals, genetic factors might be predominant. Why does it matter?
Hate to rain on anyone's parade, but studies indicate there are both genetic and environmental factors involved in sexual orientation. This would mean that for some inividuals, genetic factors might be predominant. Why does it matter?
I don't know, there was this kid I went to grade school with who is gay. It was pretty obvious from day 1. the same can be said for my wife's 8 year old cousin - That kid is GAY!
LOL!!! I was wondering the same thing. Since six year olds are NOT sexual at ALL, how do they **know** that they are homosexuals at that age?
Now we have the homosexual lobby trying to force this stuff into six year old brains that don't know what to do with it. Of course the come out "confused."
Children do not naturally label their experiences in sexual terms. I have encountered many homosexuals who insist they were always homosexual, and yet their first sexual experience was horrific abuse. They simply insist that the two facts are unrelated. But are they? Or have they, once they have gained sexual experience, attributed homosexual inclinations to behaviors they may have otherwise have dismissed. For instance, some little kids get emotional gratification from wrestling. While not unrelated to sexuality, this is plainly not a sexual activity. But I had one lesbian housemate assert as evidence she was "always" lesbian the fact that when she was five she enjoyed wrestling with her sisters more than with her brothers. (She also claimed to have always had a fascination with Daisy Dukes' "Daisy Dukes," and with Wonderwoman; she is now exlcusively heterosexual, without even having received any therapy or having made a decision homosexuality was immoral.)
Although the kid is 8 years old, consider:
His own family will treat him as he is gay.
He will be tormented by classmates for being gay.
He will be picked, one out of a thousand, by pedophilic predators.
He will be pressured by other gays to acknowledge he is gay.
He will be welcomed by gays, while ostrasized by many straight people.
He will find he has much in common with gays.
(Think of the little girl who believed herself to be a bee, in the video "No Rain.")
Yeah, I bet there's a good chance that kid ends up gay.
He has NEVER shown any interest towards women whatsoever. He was ALWAYS delicate and effeminate in his manner. When others his age were outside playing he preferred to be inside playing the piano or doing something with his female cousins like playing with dolls or sewing. He confided in me at age 14 that he was attracted to males and always had been. At 16, he had his first sexual relations with a priest. And the rest as they say is history.Today he is 51 and suffering with aids.
You are talking about intersex disorder, I believe, and you're wrong, homosexuality is no more prevalent there then the 2% nationally as a whole.
I am sorry that your brother is ill. I have a number of gay friends, male and female and they have all felt that why from a very young age.
In general they are all wonderful people who happen to be gay.
That is without a doubt THE DUMBEST thing I have ever seen anyone post on a thread EVER! Do you really think that an adolescent has the education and wherewithall to CURE his sibling from homosexuality? How DARE you accuse anyone in that situation of being irresponsible. You're a fucking moron!
I had crushes on girls since at least 4. I still remember an older woman I liked down the block, a full 9 years old;^) So I could say that I knew that I was hetero since age 4!
Six year old kids don't have interest in girls. They are even often repulsed by them, especially prior to our modern culture of premature sexualization of adolescents.
Now, I asserted in post #67 that every telling of first sexual encounters I have ever heard or read describes horrific abuse. You say that at 16 years old, he had his first sexual relations with a priest. Yes, that is the sort of sexual abuse I was referring to.
Now for the speculation (and yes, of course, this is mere speculation): he tells you that at 16, he had sexual relations with a priest. That is the age where most people feel in control sexually, so he is probably comfortable acknowledging an event at that age. But the priest was a very sick pervert. Such perverts almost unanimously prey on adolescents somehwat older than 16.
Since he was physically an adult and you do not categorize it as rape, I'll presume it was somewhat voluntary (although it certa. So here we have a kid who at 16 and in 1967 does not believe that having sex with priests is out of the question. We're not talking peers, but grown men. Sorry, but this was not a kid who was normal in every way, except for his homosexual tendencies.
Perhaps he has always been too ashamed to describe an earlier sexual encounter, so acknowledged one that took place when he had some sense of being in control. Perhaps he does not consider an earlier instance of sexual abuse to be a significant "sexual experience." But something was probably very wrong with that picture before that priest came along
"... studies indicate there are both genetic and environmental factors involved in sexual orientation..."
Please cite the studies you've read that make this claim.
Uh, oh... The self righteous, holier-than-thou, indignation card has been put into play!
Will a comparable "how dare you" now be thrown back for a checkmate/game over attempt or not?
Maybe an "Oh, YEAH!!!" should be used. It is a very comparable counter argument...
Ugh! Please... sigh...
Nice words Susan. You assume BikerNYC found out about his brother's disorder as an adolescent? Hmmm...how did I know it was "his brother" when he was referring to "his relative"??? Maybe because we've had this conversation before? You must be mind reader or something...defensive about your own brother's perversion more like it.
But I do want to say that I am very sorry to hear of his present state. It does sicken me when "Christians" talk about AIDS as if it were God's judge punishment. We all justly die because of our sins; no-one deserves extra suffering such as AIDS patients experience because of whatever sins they may or may not have committed.
Notice MAWG ducks your born attracted to animals argument?
Ever since he was 6 he always knew he liked dogs in a special kind of way. He never liked to go outside and play with th other kids, he always stayed in and played fetch with Fido.
What is this , Idiot Day at FR. I'm his brother, remember? I was THERE before the priest came along. He was not abused by my father or any other family member. Got it. Forget your political agenda for a second and listen. HE was ALWAYS gay, always.
You are way too stupid to be posting here.
You're mean...now I'm going to cry.
You’re over-generalizing. I had several crushes by age 6. I admired pretty girls that weren’t too prissy. I played show me yours and I’ll show you mine with a couple of them. I didn’t really know what sex was for another year or two, but knew what relationships and dating were and wanted go out with girls like then once I was a teenager. I don’t think that I was that unusual.
Thank you for the kind words.
OK Captain Queeg, I can hear you rolling those ball-bearings around in your pocket as we speak.
Whoa, I never said he was abused by any family member! Where did THAT come from? My first hunch would be that the priest (maybe even a previous priest) had established an inappropriate relationship with him over time.
But the fact that you were there for him does not preclude that something bad did not happen. Like I said, he may have been able to talk about the priest because he felt enough control.
What about Gene Gene The Dancing Machine?
(Gong Show...)
(1970's TV...)
Oh, never mind.
Yes, let me state myself clearer: Six year olds COMMONLY do not have interest in girls.
I myself have had to listen about embarrassing stories about me and a certain girl I liked when I was five.
It's plain this is an emotional issue for you (as it should be!), and I shouldn't be poking around in it. I don't say that you're emotional to say that that in any way nullifies your objectivity, just to say that its not a good subject for me to be debating with you, since it is a rightfully upsetting subject. So, I'm going to shut up now.
It's plain this is an emotional issue for you (as it should be!), and I shouldn't be poking around in it. I don't say that you're emotional to say that that in any way nullifies your objectivity, just to say that its not a good subject for me to be debating with you, since it is a rightfully upsetting subject. So, I'm going to shut up now. I pray your brother has peace.
Clint is a noble freeper and many of us appreciate his presence and input on FR.
Couldn't care less how queers are born, all I care is to keep boys away from them fags.
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