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Science Shows That Homosexuals Are Not "Born That Way."
December 13, 2004

Posted on 12/13/2004 9:51:59 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist

1.)Dr. Dean Hamer who failed to find a "gay gene":

"Homosexuality is not purely genetic. Environmental factors play a role. There is not a single master gene that makes people gay. I don't think that we will ever be able to predict who will be gay."

2.) Dr. Dean Hamer was asked by Scientific American if homosexuality was rooted solely in biology. He replied:

"Absolutely not. From twin studies we already know that half or more of the variability in sexual orientation is not inherited. Our studies try to pinpoint the genetic factors, not negate the psychosocial factors."

("New Evidence of a "Gay Gene," by Anastasia Toufexis, Time, November 13, 1995, Vol. 146. Issue 20, p.95)

3.) British researchers generated comparable results in an identical-twin study. Their conclusion? The suprisingly low odds that both twins were homosexual.

The study by them: "confirmed that genetic factors are insufficient explanation for the development of sexual orientation."

(King, M and McDonald, E. Homosexuals Who Are Twins: A Study of 46 Probands. British Journal of Psychiatry. 160: 407-409 (1992).

4a.)Homosexual researcher Simon Levay, who studied the hypothalamic differences between the brains of heterosexuals and homosexuals:

"I didn't show that gay men are born that way the msot common mistake people make in interpreting my work. Nor did I locate a gay center in the brain."

4b.)Dr. Simon Levay: The most widely held opinion [on causation of homosexuality] is that multiple factors play a role.

Levay, Simon (1996). Queer Science, MIT Press.

5.) Dr. J. Satinover:

"Research studies on homosexuality by Dr's Dean Hamer, Michael Bailey, Richard Dillard, Simon Levay. Laura Allen and Roger Gorski have failed to show proof of a gay gene. There is no scientific evidence that shows that homosexuality is genetic. The media has sensationalized and perpetuated the myth of a homosexual gene."

Satinover, J. M.D. (1996) Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth. Grand Rapids. Baker Books

6.) Another of Dr. Jeffery Satinover's conclusions in "The Gay Gene":

"There is no evidence that shows that homosexuality is genetic--and none of the resaerch itself claims there is. Only the press and certain researchers do when speaking in sound bites to the public."

(Jeffery Satinover, M.D. The Journal of Human Sexuality, 1996, p.8)

7.) The American Psychological Association:

"Many scientists share the view that sexual orientation is shaped for many people at an early age through complex interactions of biology, psychological and social factors."

(The American Psychological Association's pamphlet "Answers to Your Questions About Sexual Orientation and Homosexuality."

8.) The American Psychiatric Association (2000):

"no replicated scientific studies showing any specific biological etiology for homosexuality."

9.) Sociologist Steven Goldberg:

"I know of no one in the field who argues that homosexuality can be explained without reference to environmental factors."

(Goldberg, Steven (1994) When Wish Replaces Thought: Why So Much of What You Believe is False. Buffalo, New York: Prometheus Books.

10a.) Science, 1994:

"Time and time again, scientists have claimed that particular genes or chromosomal regions are associated with behavioral traits only to withdraw their findings when they were not replicated. "Unfortunately," says Yale's [Dr. Joel] Gelernter: "It's hard to come up with many findings linking specific genes to complex human behaviors that have been replicated...all were announced with great fanfare, all were greeted unskeptically in the popular press; all are now in disrepute."

(Mann, C. "Genes and Behavior." Science 264: 1687 (1994), pp. 1686-1689.)

10b.) "The interactions of genes and environment is much more complex than the simple "violence genes" and "intelligence genes" touted in the popular press."

Mann, C. op. cit. pp. 1686-1689

11.) Two genetics researchers, one at Harvard, commented in Technology Review, July 1993 p. 60 concerning twin study's.

"While the authors interpreted their findings as evidence for a genetic basis for homosexuality, we think that the data, in fact, provide strong evidence for the influence of the environment."

(Billings, P. and Beckwith, J. Technology Review, July 1993. p.60)

12.) P. Scott Richards:

"Some environmental and psychological factors that may play a causal role in the development of homosexuality include: (1) cross-gender effiminate behavior in childhood. (2) gender-identity deficits (3) hostile, dteached or absent fathers (which leads to "defensive detachment" from the father and other males) and (4) overly close, controlling or dominating mothers.

(P. Scott Richards, "The Treatment of Homosexuality: Some Historical, Contemporary and Personal Perspectives," AMCAP Journal. Vol 19, No. 1, 1993, pg. 36)

13.) Lesbian biologist Dr. Anne Fausto-Sterling of Brown University, responding to the "born that way" argument:

"It provides a legal argument that is, at the moment actually having some sawy in court. For me, it's a very shaky palce. It's bad science and bad politics. It seems to me that the way we consider homosexuality in our culture is an ethical and a moral one."

14.) Camille Paglia, lesbiam activist: "Homosexuality is 'not normal'. On the contrary it is a challenge to the norm. Nature exists whether academics like it or not. And in nature, procreation is the single, relentless rule. That is the norm. Our sexual bodies were designed for reproduction. No one is born gay. The idea is ridiculous. Homosexuality is an adaptation, not an inborn trait."

Camille Paglia: " Is the gay identity so fragile that it cannot bear the thought that some people may not wish to be gay? Sexuality is highly fluid, and reversals are theoretically possible. However, habit is highly refractory, and once the sensory pathways have been blazed -- a phenmenon obvious in the struggle with obesity, smoking, alcoholism or drug addiction...helping to learn how to function heterosexually, if they wish, is a perferctly worthy aim."

Camille Paglia: " We should be honest enough to consider whether homosexuality may not indeed be a pausing at the prepubscent stage where children anxiously band together bt gender...current gay cant insists that homosexuality is 'not a choice'; that no one would choose to be gay in a homophobic society. But there is an element of choice in all behavior, sexual or otherwise. It takes an effort to deal with the opposite sex; it is safer to deal with your own kind. The issue is one of challenge versus comfort."

Boys victimized by older men are far more likely to be homosexual as adults, and the cycle often repeats itself. More environmental factors.

15.) Noted child sex-abuse expert David Finkelhor found that "boys victimized by older men were over four times more likley to be currently engaged in homosexual activity than were non-victims. The finding applied to nearly half the boys who had such an experience. Further, the adolescents themselves often linked their homosexuality to their victimization experiences."

(Bill Watkins & Aaron Bentovim, "The Sexual Bause of Male Adolescents: A Review of Current Research, " Journal of Child Psychiatry 33, (1992); in Byren Finkelman, Sexual Abuse(New York: Garland Publishing, 1995), p. 316

16.) The Archives of Sexual Behavior:

"One of the most salient findings of this study is that 46% of homosexual men and 22% of homosexual women reported having been molested by a person of the same gender."

(Marie, E. Tomeo "Comparative Data of Childhood and Adolescent Molestation in Heterosexual and Homosexual Persons." Archives of Sexual Behavior 30 (2001): 539)

17.) A study of 279 homosexual and bisexual men with Aids and control patients reported:

"More than half of both case and control patients reported a sexual act with a male by age 16 years, approximately 20% by age 10 years."

(Harry W. Haverkos, "The Initiation of Male Homosexual Behavior," The Journal of the American Medical Association 262 (July 28, 1989): 501)

18.) A stduy of 229 convicted child molesters found that:

"86% of offenders against males described themselves as homosexual or bisexual."

(W.D. Erickson, Behavior Patterns of Child Molesters, Archives of Sexual Behavior 17 (1988): 83)

19.) A National Institue of Justice report states that:

"the odds that a childhood sexual abuse victim will be arrested as an adult for any sex crime is 4.7 times higher than for people...who experienced no victimization as children."

(Cathy Spatz Widom, "Victims of Childhood Sexual Abuse - Later Criminal Consequences, Victims of Childhood Sexual Abuse Series: NIJ Research in Brief (March 1995): 6)

20.) A Child Abuse and Neglect study found that 59% of male child sex offenders had beenvictims of contact sexual abuse as a child.

(Michelle Elliott, "Child Sexual Abuse Prevention: What offenders Tell Us" Child Abuse and Neglect 19, (1995): 582)


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: agenda; child; deanhamer; dna; father; gay; gaygene; gays; genes; homosexual; homosexualagenda; homosexuality; mother; queers; science; scienceofperversion
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To: MAWG
HE was ALWAYS gay, always.

OK Captain Queeg, I can hear you rolling those ball-bearings around in your pocket as we speak.

141 posted on 12/13/2004 1:51:04 PM PST by Clint N. Suhks
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To: MAWG

Whoa, I never said he was abused by any family member! Where did THAT come from? My first hunch would be that the priest (maybe even a previous priest) had established an inappropriate relationship with him over time.

But the fact that you were there for him does not preclude that something bad did not happen. Like I said, he may have been able to talk about the priest because he felt enough control.


142 posted on 12/13/2004 1:58:31 PM PST by dangus
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To: speed_addiction
There is no gene accounting for that.

What about Gene Gene The Dancing Machine?

(Gong Show...)

(1970's TV...)

Oh, never mind.

143 posted on 12/13/2004 2:02:35 PM PST by 69ConvertibleFirebird (Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.)
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To: elfman2

Yes, let me state myself clearer: Six year olds COMMONLY do not have interest in girls.

I myself have had to listen about embarrassing stories about me and a certain girl I liked when I was five.


144 posted on 12/13/2004 2:03:27 PM PST by dangus
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To: dangus

It's plain this is an emotional issue for you (as it should be!), and I shouldn't be poking around in it. I don't say that you're emotional to say that that in any way nullifies your objectivity, just to say that its not a good subject for me to be debating with you, since it is a rightfully upsetting subject. So, I'm going to shut up now.


145 posted on 12/13/2004 2:08:42 PM PST by dangus
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To: MAWG

It's plain this is an emotional issue for you (as it should be!), and I shouldn't be poking around in it. I don't say that you're emotional to say that that in any way nullifies your objectivity, just to say that its not a good subject for me to be debating with you, since it is a rightfully upsetting subject. So, I'm going to shut up now. I pray your brother has peace.


146 posted on 12/13/2004 2:10:26 PM PST by dangus
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To: MAWG; Clint N. Suhks

Clint is a noble freeper and many of us appreciate his presence and input on FR.


147 posted on 12/13/2004 2:24:41 PM PST by little jeremiah (what would happen if everyone decided their own "right and wrong"?)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
Science Shows That Homosexuals Are Not "Born That Way."

Couldn't care less how queers are born, all I care is to keep boys away from them fags.

148 posted on 12/13/2004 2:30:33 PM PST by Anticommie
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To: dangus
Actually the kid is about 11 now - come to think of it.

Here's a tidbit about this kid, pretty sick actually. It happened about 8 months ago.

My wife's mother's family has 10 kids, they all have a number of children so the chances that there are some screws loose somewhere in this clan is pretty high.

Anyhow, she has another cousin, who is 18 years old and autistic. Nicest kid in the world. Anyway the afore mentioned 11yo cousin was "playing" with the 18 year old upstairs at an aunt's house (okay, it is a mansion, really).

To set the scene, there is an in-law apartment built into this house, a kitchen, bedroom and living room, the autistic kid was watching TV and the 11yo was in the bedroom. The mother of the autistic kid walked into the TV room to check on her son and heard the younger cousin saying "Billy, come in the bedroom and play with me in here (or something to that effect)" The mother walked in and found the kid naked in bed. Essentially he was displaying predatory characteristics at 11.

this kid comes from a pretty normal family, the father is a mailman and the mother is a teacher, he has an older brother who is quite the athlete and the father does everything to get this kid to "play ball" pun intended.

Whether or not this kid had something happen to him at an early age, I obviously can't say. I've known this kid since 1999 when i started dating my wife. We're both pretty sure he is going to end up gay, whether or not he ends up a predator who knows. But that was a troubling thing that happened. And I can venture a guess that this kid was wired this way.

Not saying all gays are, but it's fairly obvious that some are.
149 posted on 12/13/2004 2:32:14 PM PST by Conservomax (There are no solutions, only trade-offs.)
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To: 69ConvertibleFirebird
What about Gene Gene The Dancing Machine? (Gong Show...) (1970's TV...) Oh, never mind.

For years I have tried to tell my daughter the out of control and hilarious circus that was the Gong Show. Words fail me. I would love to find a season or two of it on DVD. That show was nothing but frivolity and frolic from day one.
150 posted on 12/13/2004 2:38:47 PM PST by speed_addiction (Ninja's last words, "Hey guys. Watch me just flip out on that big dude over there!")
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To: Conservomax

You better believe that kid learned that from somewhere! You're probably smart enough to figure this out for yourself, but I'll say it anyway: Until you find out where that kid learned like that, you do NOT let any kids of yourse anywhere near him his close relatives or anyone else . You have a real pervert somewhere in that family, and I'd have LOOOONNGG, difficult consversations with my wife, if I were you, until I were good and certain who is trustworthy in that family.


151 posted on 12/13/2004 2:39:10 PM PST by dangus
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To: Baynative

Of course!


152 posted on 12/13/2004 2:44:07 PM PST by RWCon (P)
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To: Conservomax
...the father is a mailman...

Ah, ha! A clue! Would the term "Go Postal" happen to ring a bell?

153 posted on 12/13/2004 2:49:17 PM PST by 69ConvertibleFirebird (Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.)
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To: speed_addiction
Yeah, that show was a true crack up from beginning to end. The fights for the gong, Gene Gene The Dancing Machine, the BIG hook that came out after contestants...

Hopefully it will make one of the cable TV Land types of reruns.

154 posted on 12/13/2004 2:51:24 PM PST by 69ConvertibleFirebird (Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.)
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To: little jeremiah; MAWG
MAWG is very defensive about his brother's disorder. I guess it's a natural reaction to defend ones family even in light of it's inherent dysfunction. There's been thee instances of homosexuality in my immediate family. I wathced it destroy my Aunt and her 4 teen age children when my "uncle" decided to follow a life of filth and degradation. My wife's father left her mother her and her young sister to be an active homosexual and is likely one of the very first to die from AIDS before they even knew what to name it. My sister in-law nearly died from heroine use because of this foul and repugnant behavior.

MAWG takes entirely the wrong attitude of accepting it as a legitimate alternative to that which is good, right and true and relies on anecdotal evidence to prove other wise. She lashes out because she must know deep down her opinion is flawed and lacks validity in any sense of real science. Pardon me if I don't sit back and accept someone with a paraphilic disorder that they always were that way, while dodging the "those who were always attracted to animals" (insert favorite paraphilic disorder) question. The logic doesn't follow.

155 posted on 12/13/2004 2:52:40 PM PST by Clint N. Suhks
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To: speed_addiction
"For years I have tried to tell my daughter the out of control and hilarious circus that was the Gong Show. Words fail me. I would love to find a season or two of it on DVD. That show was nothing but frivolity and frolic from day one. "

For what it’s worth, the first group to be gonged off that show was the Mystic Knights of Oingo Boingo with lead singer Danny Elfman. I must come off as such a fanatic;^)

156 posted on 12/13/2004 3:02:24 PM PST by elfman2
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To: TerP26

I disagree, there is no gene, they have admitted by 87% that they were sexually abused as children, the remaining 13 percent admitted to have been "introduced to homosexual activity at a very young age" they did not see it as abuse. Not every person who has been molested as a child grows up to be gay, the the overwhelming evidence is that most gay people, (especially men) have been abused. At some point.

I totally believe it is environmental and related to childhood experiences in one way or another.


157 posted on 12/13/2004 3:10:51 PM PST by gidget7 (God Bless America, and our President George W. Bush)
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To: Clint N. Suhks; little jeremiah; MAWG
" MAWG is very defensive about his brother's disorder. I guess it's a natural reaction to defend ones family even in light of it's inherent dysfunction….MAWG takes entirely the wrong attitude of accepting it as a legitimate alternative to that which is good, right and true and relies on anecdotal evidence to prove other wise. She lashes out because she must know deep down her opinion is flawed and lacks validity in any sense of real science"

I think anyone who pulls something as presumptuous, ignorant and insulting as this out of the blue is the one with some kind of emotional problem.

What did you do to help your brother turn away from his perversion? Nothing? I suggest you were either too lazy or too indifferent to help him (posty #114).....
If someone said that about me and my relationship with a disabled or disturbed sibling knowing as little as you about the specifics of our relationship and age, “defensive” would be the nicest you thing you could say about my reaction.
158 posted on 12/13/2004 3:12:26 PM PST by elfman2
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To: dangus
"Caged, Lesbian Bunnies In Heat."


159 posted on 12/13/2004 3:15:41 PM PST by Petronski (Sleepin' on the interstate, ah whoa-o, Gettin' wild, wild life.)
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To: Clint N. Suhks
I mean you can find tons of animals that exhibit in same-sex behavior

Animals don't have cognitive thought and emotion. No ability to resist vile temptations. People are not the same as rutting animals!
160 posted on 12/13/2004 3:29:03 PM PST by gidget7 (God Bless America, and our President George W. Bush)
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