Skip to comments.Science Shows That Homosexuals Are Not "Born That Way."
Posted on 12/13/2004 9:51:59 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
1.)Dr. Dean Hamer who failed to find a "gay gene":
"Homosexuality is not purely genetic. Environmental factors play a role. There is not a single master gene that makes people gay. I don't think that we will ever be able to predict who will be gay."
2.) Dr. Dean Hamer was asked by Scientific American if homosexuality was rooted solely in biology. He replied:
"Absolutely not. From twin studies we already know that half or more of the variability in sexual orientation is not inherited. Our studies try to pinpoint the genetic factors, not negate the psychosocial factors."
("New Evidence of a "Gay Gene," by Anastasia Toufexis, Time, November 13, 1995, Vol. 146. Issue 20, p.95)
3.) British researchers generated comparable results in an identical-twin study. Their conclusion? The suprisingly low odds that both twins were homosexual.
The study by them: "confirmed that genetic factors are insufficient explanation for the development of sexual orientation."
(King, M and McDonald, E. Homosexuals Who Are Twins: A Study of 46 Probands. British Journal of Psychiatry. 160: 407-409 (1992).
4a.)Homosexual researcher Simon Levay, who studied the hypothalamic differences between the brains of heterosexuals and homosexuals:
"I didn't show that gay men are born that way the msot common mistake people make in interpreting my work. Nor did I locate a gay center in the brain."
4b.)Dr. Simon Levay: The most widely held opinion [on causation of homosexuality] is that multiple factors play a role.
Levay, Simon (1996). Queer Science, MIT Press.
5.) Dr. J. Satinover:
"Research studies on homosexuality by Dr's Dean Hamer, Michael Bailey, Richard Dillard, Simon Levay. Laura Allen and Roger Gorski have failed to show proof of a gay gene. There is no scientific evidence that shows that homosexuality is genetic. The media has sensationalized and perpetuated the myth of a homosexual gene."
Satinover, J. M.D. (1996) Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth. Grand Rapids. Baker Books
6.) Another of Dr. Jeffery Satinover's conclusions in "The Gay Gene":
"There is no evidence that shows that homosexuality is genetic--and none of the resaerch itself claims there is. Only the press and certain researchers do when speaking in sound bites to the public."
(Jeffery Satinover, M.D. The Journal of Human Sexuality, 1996, p.8)
7.) The American Psychological Association:
"Many scientists share the view that sexual orientation is shaped for many people at an early age through complex interactions of biology, psychological and social factors."
(The American Psychological Association's pamphlet "Answers to Your Questions About Sexual Orientation and Homosexuality."
8.) The American Psychiatric Association (2000):
"no replicated scientific studies showing any specific biological etiology for homosexuality."
9.) Sociologist Steven Goldberg:
"I know of no one in the field who argues that homosexuality can be explained without reference to environmental factors."
(Goldberg, Steven (1994) When Wish Replaces Thought: Why So Much of What You Believe is False. Buffalo, New York: Prometheus Books.
10a.) Science, 1994:
"Time and time again, scientists have claimed that particular genes or chromosomal regions are associated with behavioral traits only to withdraw their findings when they were not replicated. "Unfortunately," says Yale's [Dr. Joel] Gelernter: "It's hard to come up with many findings linking specific genes to complex human behaviors that have been replicated...all were announced with great fanfare, all were greeted unskeptically in the popular press; all are now in disrepute."
(Mann, C. "Genes and Behavior." Science 264: 1687 (1994), pp. 1686-1689.)
10b.) "The interactions of genes and environment is much more complex than the simple "violence genes" and "intelligence genes" touted in the popular press."
Mann, C. op. cit. pp. 1686-1689
11.) Two genetics researchers, one at Harvard, commented in Technology Review, July 1993 p. 60 concerning twin study's.
"While the authors interpreted their findings as evidence for a genetic basis for homosexuality, we think that the data, in fact, provide strong evidence for the influence of the environment."
(Billings, P. and Beckwith, J. Technology Review, July 1993. p.60)
12.) P. Scott Richards:
"Some environmental and psychological factors that may play a causal role in the development of homosexuality include: (1) cross-gender effiminate behavior in childhood. (2) gender-identity deficits (3) hostile, dteached or absent fathers (which leads to "defensive detachment" from the father and other males) and (4) overly close, controlling or dominating mothers.
(P. Scott Richards, "The Treatment of Homosexuality: Some Historical, Contemporary and Personal Perspectives," AMCAP Journal. Vol 19, No. 1, 1993, pg. 36)
13.) Lesbian biologist Dr. Anne Fausto-Sterling of Brown University, responding to the "born that way" argument:
"It provides a legal argument that is, at the moment actually having some sawy in court. For me, it's a very shaky palce. It's bad science and bad politics. It seems to me that the way we consider homosexuality in our culture is an ethical and a moral one."
14.) Camille Paglia, lesbiam activist: "Homosexuality is 'not normal'. On the contrary it is a challenge to the norm. Nature exists whether academics like it or not. And in nature, procreation is the single, relentless rule. That is the norm. Our sexual bodies were designed for reproduction. No one is born gay. The idea is ridiculous. Homosexuality is an adaptation, not an inborn trait."
Camille Paglia: " Is the gay identity so fragile that it cannot bear the thought that some people may not wish to be gay? Sexuality is highly fluid, and reversals are theoretically possible. However, habit is highly refractory, and once the sensory pathways have been blazed -- a phenmenon obvious in the struggle with obesity, smoking, alcoholism or drug addiction...helping to learn how to function heterosexually, if they wish, is a perferctly worthy aim."
Camille Paglia: " We should be honest enough to consider whether homosexuality may not indeed be a pausing at the prepubscent stage where children anxiously band together bt gender...current gay cant insists that homosexuality is 'not a choice'; that no one would choose to be gay in a homophobic society. But there is an element of choice in all behavior, sexual or otherwise. It takes an effort to deal with the opposite sex; it is safer to deal with your own kind. The issue is one of challenge versus comfort."
Boys victimized by older men are far more likely to be homosexual as adults, and the cycle often repeats itself. More environmental factors.
15.) Noted child sex-abuse expert David Finkelhor found that "boys victimized by older men were over four times more likley to be currently engaged in homosexual activity than were non-victims. The finding applied to nearly half the boys who had such an experience. Further, the adolescents themselves often linked their homosexuality to their victimization experiences."
(Bill Watkins & Aaron Bentovim, "The Sexual Bause of Male Adolescents: A Review of Current Research, " Journal of Child Psychiatry 33, (1992); in Byren Finkelman, Sexual Abuse(New York: Garland Publishing, 1995), p. 316
16.) The Archives of Sexual Behavior:
"One of the most salient findings of this study is that 46% of homosexual men and 22% of homosexual women reported having been molested by a person of the same gender."
(Marie, E. Tomeo "Comparative Data of Childhood and Adolescent Molestation in Heterosexual and Homosexual Persons." Archives of Sexual Behavior 30 (2001): 539)
17.) A study of 279 homosexual and bisexual men with Aids and control patients reported:
"More than half of both case and control patients reported a sexual act with a male by age 16 years, approximately 20% by age 10 years."
(Harry W. Haverkos, "The Initiation of Male Homosexual Behavior," The Journal of the American Medical Association 262 (July 28, 1989): 501)
18.) A stduy of 229 convicted child molesters found that:
"86% of offenders against males described themselves as homosexual or bisexual."
(W.D. Erickson, Behavior Patterns of Child Molesters, Archives of Sexual Behavior 17 (1988): 83)
19.) A National Institue of Justice report states that:
"the odds that a childhood sexual abuse victim will be arrested as an adult for any sex crime is 4.7 times higher than for people...who experienced no victimization as children."
(Cathy Spatz Widom, "Victims of Childhood Sexual Abuse - Later Criminal Consequences, Victims of Childhood Sexual Abuse Series: NIJ Research in Brief (March 1995): 6)
20.) A Child Abuse and Neglect study found that 59% of male child sex offenders had beenvictims of contact sexual abuse as a child.
(Michelle Elliott, "Child Sexual Abuse Prevention: What offenders Tell Us" Child Abuse and Neglect 19, (1995): 582)
You better believe that kid learned that from somewhere! You're probably smart enough to figure this out for yourself, but I'll say it anyway: Until you find out where that kid learned like that, you do NOT let any kids of yourse anywhere near him his close relatives or anyone else . You have a real pervert somewhere in that family, and I'd have LOOOONNGG, difficult consversations with my wife, if I were you, until I were good and certain who is trustworthy in that family.
Ah, ha! A clue! Would the term "Go Postal" happen to ring a bell?
Hopefully it will make one of the cable TV Land types of reruns.
MAWG takes entirely the wrong attitude of accepting it as a legitimate alternative to that which is good, right and true and relies on anecdotal evidence to prove other wise. She lashes out because she must know deep down her opinion is flawed and lacks validity in any sense of real science. Pardon me if I don't sit back and accept someone with a paraphilic disorder that they always were that way, while dodging the "those who were always attracted to animals" (insert favorite paraphilic disorder) question. The logic doesn't follow.
For what its worth, the first group to be gonged off that show was the Mystic Knights of Oingo Boingo with lead singer Danny Elfman. I must come off as such a fanatic;^)
I disagree, there is no gene, they have admitted by 87% that they were sexually abused as children, the remaining 13 percent admitted to have been "introduced to homosexual activity at a very young age" they did not see it as abuse. Not every person who has been molested as a child grows up to be gay, the the overwhelming evidence is that most gay people, (especially men) have been abused. At some point.
I totally believe it is environmental and related to childhood experiences in one way or another.
I think anyone who pulls something as presumptuous, ignorant and insulting as this out of the blue is the one with some kind of emotional problem.
What did you do to help your brother turn away from his perversion? Nothing? I suggest you were either too lazy or too indifferent to help him (posty #114).....If someone said that about me and my relationship with a disabled or disturbed sibling knowing as little as you about the specifics of our relationship and age, defensive would be the nicest you thing you could say about my reaction.
Oh, in a discussion about whether homosexuality occurred in nature, I mentionned I had female rabbits which mounted each other. Someone else compared the caging of animals to putting people in prison (where otherwise non-homosexual people adapt homosexuality.) I was like, "OK, you've got a point; the rabbits were not in their natural habitat." But the thought that we were discussing rabbits turning to homsexuality because they were in prison was just so silly to me that it sounded like a bad "B" movie.
I really don't know what that bunny with a pancake is into, but I don't need to. :^D
Know that Ill give your thoughtful and emotionally stable analysis of those studies the attention it deserves.
We all realize this is a difficult subject for you, and you are free to express your feelings and opinion, but . You're a "fucking moron! " might get you ganned, that language isn't allowed here.
Ms. Paglia has it correct. Simple matter of what is NORMAL and what is NOT!! Face the fact that YOU CHOOSE your lifestyle and get out of this...... "I CAN'T HELP MYSELF" fantasy!!!
>>For what its worth, the first group to be gonged off that show was the Mystic Knights of Oingo Boingo with lead singer Danny Elfman. I must come off as such a fanatic;^)
Amazingly, as you must know but I'll point out for others... Danny Elfman became a legendary rock producer.
It is a very comparable counter argument...
Absoutlely it is!
Actually, you've got a point. Moderator, this thread may land us in enough hot water, with discussions about homosexuality... I hate to do this, but I think we might need a little cleanup around here.
Not to mention the parallel to long term prison incarceration, animal in zoos exhibit very similar behavior. In the wild if the dominant male won't let another breed then it's up to that male to leave the heard or remain with the boys. In no way does that prove that out cast males are sexually attracted to each other, they're just doing a form of masturbation, in lack of a better term, "wet dreams". It's no different than a dog "humping on legs".
"Not so much a gene, wolf. More a matter of taste. Coke or Pepsi, McDonalds or Burger King. A personal choice according to individual tastes."
Completely agree. You can't account for behaviors (i.e., sexual preferences specificially with my example) with the discussions of specific genes only. Can't do it.
Film score producer, not rock as far as I know, including a Grammyfor one of the Batmans.
See http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/823258/posts for more Gong Show (the New Gong Show) info. Is it on yet?
Bridget Fonda weds composer Elfman. Danny Elfman and Bridget Fonda Wed November 29, 2003
Fonda, 39, whose film credits include "Single White Female," "The Godfather: Part III" and "Jackie Brown," is part of an acting dynasty that includes father Peter Fonda, aunt Jane Fonda and the late Henry Fonda, her grandfather.
Elfman, 50, the former frontman for the '80s pop group Oingo Boingo, has composed scores for dozens of movies, including "Spider-Man," "Mission: Impossible" and "The Nightmare Before Christmas." He's also the composer of the theme to "The Simpsons."
She doesn't look 39...
Never been ganned before.
Oingo Boingo lead singer = Danny Elfman.
Danny Elfman = Freeper elfman2 ?!?!?!
Is it true?!?
Never been ganned before.
OK... Lets leave our personal sex lives out of the discussion, shall we. :)
'God gene' discovered by scientist behind gay DNA theory
By Elizabeth Day
Religious belief is determined by a person's genetic make-up according to a study by a leading scientist.
After comparing more than 2,000 DNA samples, an American molecular geneticist has concluded that a person's capacity to believe in God is linked to brain chemicals.
His findings were criticised last night by leading clerics, who challenge the existence of a "god gene" and say that the research undermines a fundamental tenet of faith - that spiritual enlightenment is achieved through divine transformation rather than the brain's electrical impulses.
Dr Dean Hamer, the director of the Gene Structure and Regulation Unit at the National Cancer Institute in America, asked volunteers 226 questions in order to determine how spiritually connected they felt to the universe. The higher their score, the greater a person's ability to believe in a greater spiritual force and, Dr Hamer found, the more likely they were to share the gene, VMAT2.
Studies on twins showed that those with this gene, a vesicular monoamine transporter that regulates the flow of mood-altering chemicals in the brain, were more likely to develop a spiritual belief.
Growing up in a religious environment was said to have little effect on belief. Dr Hamer, who in 1993 claimed to have identified a DNA sequence linked to male homosexuality, said the existence of the "god gene" explained why some people had more aptitude for spirituality than others.
"Buddha, Mohammed and Jesus all shared a series of mystical experiences or alterations in consciousness and thus probably carried the gene," he said. "This means that the tendency to be spiritual is part of genetic make-up. This is not a thing that is strictly handed down from parents to children. It could skip a generation - it's like intelligence."
His findings, published in a book, The God Gene: How Faith Is Hard-Wired Into Our Genes, were greeted sceptically by many in the religious establishment.
The Rev Dr John Polkinghorne, a fellow of the Royal Society and a Canon Theologian at Liverpool Cathedral, said: "The idea of a god gene goes against all my personal theological convictions. You can't cut faith down to the lowest common denominator of genetic survival. It shows the poverty of reductionist thinking."
The Rev Dr Walter Houston, the chaplain of Mansfield College, Oxford, and a fellow in theology, said: "Religious belief is not just related to a person's constitution; it's related to society, tradition, character - everything's involved. Having a gene that could do all that seems pretty unlikely to me."
Dr Hamer insisted, however, that his research was not antithetical to a belief in God. He pointed out: "Religious believers can point to the existence of god genes as one more sign of the creator's ingenuity - a clever way to help humans acknowledge and embrace a divine presence."
|13 October 2004: Homosexual link to fertility genes|
IMHO, homosexuality is merely narcissm by projection.
My pictures in my profile. I dont have a quarter of his talent or money.
he's a weird kid, definitely a creep - and very intelligent for his age which is scary. We don't have kids yet, but yeah, when we do, they ain't going near him.
Don't waste your time. He has an unusual obsession with the topic.
Four studies? Just on twins?
Not enough. WAY not enough.
Not just nowhere near him!... The word "perverted" implies that there is a "perverter." He LEARNED that behavior from someone! That's why you need a long talk with your wife, so you can know who is safely distant from this kid to scratch off your list of suspects... you've got real illness there, and its the sort of illness which runs in families.
Almost without exception, the gay men I know (and that's too many to count) have a story of some kind of sexual trauma or abuse in their childhood - molestation by a parent or an authority figure, or seduction as an adolescent at the hands of an adult.
Even supporters of the gay school concept admit that the so-called gay kids theyre dealing with suffer from sexual acting-out, suicidal tendencies, drug abuse, and homelessness. The fact is, all of these symptoms are indications of sexual molestation, not homosexuality. So, instead of helping these kids deal with a serious trauma, theyll be called gay and sent to a school to become a chef.
Barney Frank is attractive because he has big bucks and "connections".
Depends on whether you want a bottom or a top...
We've talked about it, my wife is a psycologist.
It's nobody in the larger family.
This particular family lives about 90 miles away from the closest relative - always have. they are pretty far removed. People see them only on Holidays, for the most part.
If it is somebody, it is a friend, teacher, priest or neighbor.
I'm glad to hear it :^). Happy Christmas!
You too. BTW, we're skipping that family get together this XMAS.
Tammy Bruce Bump!
"They are gay because they are attracted narcissinely to themselves", is an amazing observation.
This kid sounds like he has been abused or is a narcissist.
So far, science says otherwise.
If you were to believe that some people are born with a psychological illness that makes them lust for people of the same sex, I'd be right there with you.