Maybe... but how does that explain Bawney Fwank?
Posted on 12/13/2004 9:51:59 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
1.)Dr. Dean Hamer who failed to find a "gay gene":
"Homosexuality is not purely genetic. Environmental factors play a role. There is not a single master gene that makes people gay. I don't think that we will ever be able to predict who will be gay."
2.) Dr. Dean Hamer was asked by Scientific American if homosexuality was rooted solely in biology. He replied:
"Absolutely not. From twin studies we already know that half or more of the variability in sexual orientation is not inherited. Our studies try to pinpoint the genetic factors, not negate the psychosocial factors."
("New Evidence of a "Gay Gene," by Anastasia Toufexis, Time, November 13, 1995, Vol. 146. Issue 20, p.95)
3.) British researchers generated comparable results in an identical-twin study. Their conclusion? The suprisingly low odds that both twins were homosexual.
The study by them: "confirmed that genetic factors are insufficient explanation for the development of sexual orientation."
(King, M and McDonald, E. Homosexuals Who Are Twins: A Study of 46 Probands. British Journal of Psychiatry. 160: 407-409 (1992).
4a.)Homosexual researcher Simon Levay, who studied the hypothalamic differences between the brains of heterosexuals and homosexuals:
"I didn't show that gay men are born that way the msot common mistake people make in interpreting my work. Nor did I locate a gay center in the brain."
4b.)Dr. Simon Levay: The most widely held opinion [on causation of homosexuality] is that multiple factors play a role.
Levay, Simon (1996). Queer Science, MIT Press.
5.) Dr. J. Satinover:
"Research studies on homosexuality by Dr's Dean Hamer, Michael Bailey, Richard Dillard, Simon Levay. Laura Allen and Roger Gorski have failed to show proof of a gay gene. There is no scientific evidence that shows that homosexuality is genetic. The media has sensationalized and perpetuated the myth of a homosexual gene."
Satinover, J. M.D. (1996) Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth. Grand Rapids. Baker Books
6.) Another of Dr. Jeffery Satinover's conclusions in "The Gay Gene":
"There is no evidence that shows that homosexuality is genetic--and none of the resaerch itself claims there is. Only the press and certain researchers do when speaking in sound bites to the public."
(Jeffery Satinover, M.D. The Journal of Human Sexuality, 1996, p.8)
7.) The American Psychological Association:
"Many scientists share the view that sexual orientation is shaped for many people at an early age through complex interactions of biology, psychological and social factors."
(The American Psychological Association's pamphlet "Answers to Your Questions About Sexual Orientation and Homosexuality."
8.) The American Psychiatric Association (2000):
"no replicated scientific studies showing any specific biological etiology for homosexuality."
9.) Sociologist Steven Goldberg:
"I know of no one in the field who argues that homosexuality can be explained without reference to environmental factors."
(Goldberg, Steven (1994) When Wish Replaces Thought: Why So Much of What You Believe is False. Buffalo, New York: Prometheus Books.
10a.) Science, 1994:
"Time and time again, scientists have claimed that particular genes or chromosomal regions are associated with behavioral traits only to withdraw their findings when they were not replicated. "Unfortunately," says Yale's [Dr. Joel] Gelernter: "It's hard to come up with many findings linking specific genes to complex human behaviors that have been replicated...all were announced with great fanfare, all were greeted unskeptically in the popular press; all are now in disrepute."
(Mann, C. "Genes and Behavior." Science 264: 1687 (1994), pp. 1686-1689.)
10b.) "The interactions of genes and environment is much more complex than the simple "violence genes" and "intelligence genes" touted in the popular press."
Mann, C. op. cit. pp. 1686-1689
11.) Two genetics researchers, one at Harvard, commented in Technology Review, July 1993 p. 60 concerning twin study's.
"While the authors interpreted their findings as evidence for a genetic basis for homosexuality, we think that the data, in fact, provide strong evidence for the influence of the environment."
(Billings, P. and Beckwith, J. Technology Review, July 1993. p.60)
12.) P. Scott Richards:
"Some environmental and psychological factors that may play a causal role in the development of homosexuality include: (1) cross-gender effiminate behavior in childhood. (2) gender-identity deficits (3) hostile, dteached or absent fathers (which leads to "defensive detachment" from the father and other males) and (4) overly close, controlling or dominating mothers.
(P. Scott Richards, "The Treatment of Homosexuality: Some Historical, Contemporary and Personal Perspectives," AMCAP Journal. Vol 19, No. 1, 1993, pg. 36)
13.) Lesbian biologist Dr. Anne Fausto-Sterling of Brown University, responding to the "born that way" argument:
"It provides a legal argument that is, at the moment actually having some sawy in court. For me, it's a very shaky palce. It's bad science and bad politics. It seems to me that the way we consider homosexuality in our culture is an ethical and a moral one."
14.) Camille Paglia, lesbiam activist: "Homosexuality is 'not normal'. On the contrary it is a challenge to the norm. Nature exists whether academics like it or not. And in nature, procreation is the single, relentless rule. That is the norm. Our sexual bodies were designed for reproduction. No one is born gay. The idea is ridiculous. Homosexuality is an adaptation, not an inborn trait."
Camille Paglia: " Is the gay identity so fragile that it cannot bear the thought that some people may not wish to be gay? Sexuality is highly fluid, and reversals are theoretically possible. However, habit is highly refractory, and once the sensory pathways have been blazed -- a phenmenon obvious in the struggle with obesity, smoking, alcoholism or drug addiction...helping to learn how to function heterosexually, if they wish, is a perferctly worthy aim."
Camille Paglia: " We should be honest enough to consider whether homosexuality may not indeed be a pausing at the prepubscent stage where children anxiously band together bt gender...current gay cant insists that homosexuality is 'not a choice'; that no one would choose to be gay in a homophobic society. But there is an element of choice in all behavior, sexual or otherwise. It takes an effort to deal with the opposite sex; it is safer to deal with your own kind. The issue is one of challenge versus comfort."
Boys victimized by older men are far more likely to be homosexual as adults, and the cycle often repeats itself. More environmental factors.
15.) Noted child sex-abuse expert David Finkelhor found that "boys victimized by older men were over four times more likley to be currently engaged in homosexual activity than were non-victims. The finding applied to nearly half the boys who had such an experience. Further, the adolescents themselves often linked their homosexuality to their victimization experiences."
(Bill Watkins & Aaron Bentovim, "The Sexual Bause of Male Adolescents: A Review of Current Research, " Journal of Child Psychiatry 33, (1992); in Byren Finkelman, Sexual Abuse(New York: Garland Publishing, 1995), p. 316
16.) The Archives of Sexual Behavior:
"One of the most salient findings of this study is that 46% of homosexual men and 22% of homosexual women reported having been molested by a person of the same gender."
(Marie, E. Tomeo "Comparative Data of Childhood and Adolescent Molestation in Heterosexual and Homosexual Persons." Archives of Sexual Behavior 30 (2001): 539)
17.) A study of 279 homosexual and bisexual men with Aids and control patients reported:
"More than half of both case and control patients reported a sexual act with a male by age 16 years, approximately 20% by age 10 years."
(Harry W. Haverkos, "The Initiation of Male Homosexual Behavior," The Journal of the American Medical Association 262 (July 28, 1989): 501)
18.) A stduy of 229 convicted child molesters found that:
"86% of offenders against males described themselves as homosexual or bisexual."
(W.D. Erickson, Behavior Patterns of Child Molesters, Archives of Sexual Behavior 17 (1988): 83)
19.) A National Institue of Justice report states that:
"the odds that a childhood sexual abuse victim will be arrested as an adult for any sex crime is 4.7 times higher than for people...who experienced no victimization as children."
(Cathy Spatz Widom, "Victims of Childhood Sexual Abuse - Later Criminal Consequences, Victims of Childhood Sexual Abuse Series: NIJ Research in Brief (March 1995): 6)
20.) A Child Abuse and Neglect study found that 59% of male child sex offenders had beenvictims of contact sexual abuse as a child.
(Michelle Elliott, "Child Sexual Abuse Prevention: What offenders Tell Us" Child Abuse and Neglect 19, (1995): 582)
Oh my, bet you saw more than you'd ever want to see. Oy.
Maybe... but how does that explain Bawney Fwank?
Exactly - and by using the word 'gay', it means falling right into the lobbyists trap of first changing the language to 1. mean something than it originally meant and 2. the creation of a term which looks like it has some type of group status associated with it and therefore legitimacy.
It's for this reason that I absolutely refuse to use the word 'gay' - at least in any kind of sexuality context.
I left after Easter when I witnessed the Egg Hunt and how they hunted for the eggs, by where they put the eggs!
Guess they thought they were Chickens!
I miss the point.
If there is a gay gene then there is also a foot fetish gene, a beastiality gene, and you...well you get the picture.
LOL...It's mind boggling, isn't it?
Reading comprehension ain't your long suit, I see.
I believe that a girl born after a older brother has a higher chance of being a tom boy because of the antibodies left in the mother's body. The same thing might affect men born after an older sister. But I think a lot of homosexuality is born of lack of success with the opposite sex and a familiarity with the same sex. Clearly more is involved including earlier experiences. I go with the continuum thing, everyone is on a line from hetero to homo and where you are sometimes gives one side or the other a chance to pull you in. Not genetic, but nevertheless inherent.
This does not mean I want homosexuality to be normalized, on the contrary, I would like to see it totally underground and given as many chances to disappear as possible.
I believe Ann Heche used to be Ellen DeGeneres' "girlfriend," but then married a man.
So she seems to have changed her mind . . .
When I was a Kid my dad called them Queers and Fruits...
They ruined the true meaning of Gay...
Damn it! and all this time I thought the sun was out at 3 a.m.... Damn it!
At least the fence-post knot-holers should agree with you.
Of course they, else they wouldn't.
There are those who propose that it is population-pressure driven.
I guess you have to know who these icons from pop culture are in order to "get it". I didn't recognize her because I've never seen her. Thankfully.
So she seems to have changed her mind . . .
I think that there are many people don't care a whit what sex person they are cavorting with. It it gets ya off, go for it.
I hear that many married women are going "bi" in order to get turned on without having affairs with men other than their husbands. Often with the moronic husbands going along so they can view other women having sex with their wives. It takes all kinds....
"Homophilia" does exist. The term was invented to describe patients who found themselves far more turned on by members of their own sex; Even though they were trying to be heterosexual, they just couldn't find members of their own sex attractive.
Homosexuality is a behavior. It was conflated with homophilia by the MSM so as to confuse terms; it is much easier to denounce homsexuality than homophilia. The Catholic church, for instance, finds homosexuality to be emphatically and categorically denounced in the bible, but has significantly more difficulties on the issue as to whether homophiles should be excluded from the priesthood. (Rome has said they should be, but has failed to discipline anyone from the American Church which nearly unanimously permits homophiles into the priesthood. Rome opposes the ordination of homophiles because it finds that the tremendous sacrifice of priestly celibacy (which is fantastically greater of a burden than simple abstinence) requires sexually and emotionally healthy persons.
I'm not sure that it is all that helpful to toss out what would likely be interpreted as derogatory names but the strangest thing about it to me is the way the term 'queer' has been almost marketed and foisted on the public - at least it sure appears that this term is trumpeted from the 'inside' as opposed to something that comes from the 'outside'. Oh right, I forgot - 'they' are celebrating their diversity, difference, uniqueness etc.
At some levels, the whole thing gets very basic. For example, what is a homosexual? The word gets tossed about as if everyone knows what it means.... but what does it really mean?
Love your tag line - so very true.
Ok for the science.
Now what about those teenagers who in puberty form strong attachments to the same sex? What about those teenagers who do not even realize that they are different in their attachments?
Do people really believe teenagers go out on a Saturday and say - "Gee, what can I do to make my peers hate me, bring utter scorn on me?"
I don't. I believe that something goes amiss somewhere along the line in puberty where they do not progress to the "discovering women" stage. I believe they live years of confusion as their friends form attachments to the other sex and they begin to realize they are somehow different from their friends as girlfriend situations are somehow forced to them.
They then drift into associations with other males not hooked up with girlfriends and trouble ensues.
I don't know what causes this - whether an early attack, a missing step in the sexual development stage or what.
But - ask any parent of a young gay person what they saw in the development of that child. I doubt you will find that that child decided willfully to be turned on by males and form strong attachments to males rather than females.
Ask any teenage girl why she is not attracted to her male gay friends sexually. I think you will find that there is just missing chemistry and it just does not take.
Who can explain chemistry among the sexes?
I agree there are choices. I agree that some "experiment" or seek gross diversions. But, in addition, there are the teenagers caught in this mess and we don't need to condemn them - we need answers to help them live in this world.
Homophilia (attraction to memners of one's own gender) may not be a choice; homosexuality (sexual relations with members of one's own gender) is. That said, even homosexuals culpability for their own sins may be somewhat lessened (but by no means eliminated!) by compulsive or addictive disorders.
Yeah, that's where the whole arguement falls apart. Are people born with leather-fetish or rubber-fetish or fill in the blank fetish? There are all sorts of odd things that turns on certain people, and the only real explaination for those is it is a learned behavior. Sexuality is a powerful positive reinforcement mechnism, and to discount its ability to shape ones sexuality is just plain ignorant.
We know rats get agressive it the population of the cage is too large. I think people do this too. I don't see how having lots of people (like in big cities) leads to homosexuality, birth control is available and lots of sex can be had. Homosexual men have lots of sex, because each has a partner with the sex drive of a male. Thus they are both males. but attracted not to females. I am not referring here to prison homosexuality, (where women are not available, that is another thing, and is not the kind of homosexuality we are talking about here.) But I would not propose that population pressure has anything to do with it other than high population will allow a larger base number of homosexuals (at the same percentage).
It brings more problems than it solves for young girls, I believe.
I disagree. What about all the years before society made it acceptable?
A study needs to be done of parents of gays and see what they noticed over the years of development.
Again - how many teenagers do you know that seek to choose options that bring scorn on them their entire lives? They just want to be accepted by their peers. They are not accepted - no matter what society attempts to do.
How could you get a young normal teenager to avoid girls and instead only be interested in relationships of the same sex. It could not be done.
I have not noticed young men sitting down and deciding they would like girls - not men. I have seen young men totally enamored of a young girl and you could not make them be able to ignore them.
Now why is this? Did you make a choice sexually? I seem to remember having boyfriends in the first grade - and I did not make a "choice".
Thanks for posting this.
I have long contended, based on my personal observations of the messed-up lives of people who come from abusive families, that the people who end of going off the reservation on this issue do so because of emotional, physical, and/or sexual abuse in their childhoods. It's not always the parents doing the abusing, sometimes it's Uncle Joe or the neighbor or another adult, oh, say, a parish priest or a camp counselor, etc. But if a child is smashed up and pressed out of measure, he's not going to grow up strong and sturdy like children who are well-loved, properly nurtured, and have good role models.
My $.02.
Oh, I forgot - I am a female - not a male. Don't want to add confusion to our discussion.
I would also throw in the pedophiles. Are they born with a lust for little girls and boys? Is there a gene we can isolate for that? It all falls under the same heading. I do not think it is natural in any of these cases, but of course that is just my opiniion.
No, that is a debilitating mental illness that **can** be cured...
Often times it's simply cured as time passes by (age). Sometimes it's cured by things such as being the victim of an armed robbery. Or, the government taking away your home. There are So many cures it makes one wonder how there are still people in existence with Liberal Disease.
Did you chose to date girls in high school instead of boys?
Did you only chose girls because that was what was expected OR BECAUSE YOU HAD NO CHOICE - YOU JUST HAD TO HAVE A DATE WITH THAT CUTE GIRL IN THE NEXT AISLE?
I suggest people remember their own teenage years and when they made their choice.
Frankly - it never came up with me - it was just natural because of the many crushes I was surrounded with in my teenage years. (Note-I am female).
Bump.
>> I mean you can find tons of animals that exhibit in same-sex behavior.<<
Yes, because most animals engage in sexual behavior simply as a result of environmental stimuli. For instance, most animals simply go into periodic "heat," where they are sexually aroused by what time it is in a sexual cycle, and not by the characteristics of another animal present. Such animals often mate with members of the opposite sex only because they find members of their own sex unreceptive. A cat in heat will becom esexually active with whatever fits its anatomy the best. A same-sex relation is better to a cat than a carpet, but a carpet will do, also. But that same cat will, AFAIK, always prefer another cat of the opposite gender.
Humans are very unique among animals in that our sexuality is not cyclical. Human female's breasts are perpetually enlarged for sexuality, and both genders are capable of sexual relations at any time. Rather, human sexuality is mostly triggered by psychological, rather than physiological conditions. (There are some vestigal physiological causes; Men tend to be visually stimulated while women tend to show a circilunar greater ease of arousal.) The complex psychological elements of sexuality are altogether absent in most animals, and therefore comparisons to human sexuality are just silly.
I would have a couple conditions before I would consider relating animal homosexuality to human homosexuality:
1. The animal would have monogamous in nature. This is not because I am asserting that humans are monogamous in nature, but because it establishes sexual psychology, not simply indiscriminate humping; In corollary, the animal would have to be exclusively homosexual; bisexuality in animals would only demonstrate a lack of cognitive discrimination.
2. The animal would have to have heterosexual opportunity. In other words, I wouldn't classify as homosexual animals which are striving for heterosexual matings, but which are physiologically compelled to sexually climax in spite of the ability to find an appropriate mate.
That opinion is so gay...
(kidding...)
Send me a picture of animals being homo. Any animal. I keep hearing this about animals and I have never seen a queer animal. Maybe you have movies of animals exhibiting queer tendencies? If you do please post them here so we can all see for ourselves. If you have no proof, make no statements about it.
bump
>>They look good and are for the most part healthy because homosexuals are not recruiting those whom they do not find attractive.<<
No, it's because homosexuals are, by nature, narcisistic. And they also tend to be sexually compulsive, so they are very driven to get off on themselves.
Now I wonder what kind of "sexuality" it is when my neighbor's dog tries to do my leg. If it's a male dog on a man's leg is the dog homosexual? But a male dog on a woman's leg is heterosexual?...
It's pointless to discuss these types of things with the homosexual lobby. They have no argument other than emotion.
And if that BS were true, you'd see consistent findings from the dozens of MZ "twins-studies". But you don't, you see data range from 0% to the high 70's% concordance rates.
If the twins studies prove anything it's that the practice of perversion in NOT inherited, if it were the "studies" could be replicated.
Oh, and calling them narcistic is not a judgment. I just mean it as a natural result of being turned on by bodies which look like your own.
Actually I tend to think the benefits of being heterosexual occur here on earth. I don't think God really cares that much about our sex lives, but I do think that a secure and stable marriage and children are two of lifes greatest joys and if you are homosexual chances are you won't have either. It's also a very unhealthy lifestyle both emotionally and physically. Men and women are naturally complimentary to each other. Men and men or women and women are not.
It really doesn't matter whether there is such a genetic predisposition or not. Homosexuals have free will just like anyone else, and they choose their behavior.
I believe that he **did** do a song titled "Beat It." Hmmmmm.....
Congratulations on your cure and recovery!
Read post #84. I had pet rabbits. We got females only, so they wouldn't make a zillions of little pet rabbits. They did mount each other. I explain in post #84 why this is not comparable to human homosexuality.
26: I agree. Well stated.
Oh my.
I can only guess what the poster was referring to. Somehow I know her from something. She and Ellen seemed quite the item in People magazine, etc . . .
I now take my own magazines to read in the dentist's waiting room! LOL
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