Posted on 12/15/2004 7:24:46 AM PST by Rakkasan1
A retiree who got fed up when a cell-phone user refused to clean up his language in a restaurant in July got three months' probation Tuesday. Unlike many defendants who walk into Ramsey County District Judge Paulette Flynn's courtroom to plead guilty to a crime, 79-year-old Bill W. Stevenson got thumbs-up signs from attorneys and others in the court who identified with his motives, if not his actions. "I felt a lot of sympathy, and they were giving me the thumbs-up when I walked out of the courtroom," Stevenson said after pleading guilty to a single count of disorderly conduct. "I think I could've won my case by going to trial, with a sympathetic jury. I've had over 30 calls and letters and e-mails, and I've not had one negative call. They're all on my side." The bagel bakery imbroglio happened July 15 when Stevenson and another retired 3M engineer, Sten Gerfast, 74, were sitting at a table at Bruegger's in the Sun Ray Shopping Center and going over a design Gerfast had invented. Jesse Russell Tabor, 40, of Minneapolis entered the bakery with his 13-year-old daughter. In an interview after the incident, Tabor said he was talking on his cell phone with a man whose home he was remodeling. Tabor said in the interview he didn't recall cursing while on the phone. Stevenson and Gerfast remember it differently. "He was using the F-word against this guy he was talking to," Stevenson said. "There was an argument on the phone. The third time he walked by our booth where Mr. Gerfast and I were trying to design something, Mr. Gerfast said to me, 'Should I do something about it?' I thought a moment and thought, 'What can you do in a case like this?'
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Yes, but these senior citizens took it too far. Yes, Tabor was completely out of line and I think it was fine for Gerfast to politely ask him to take the conversation outside. But if the man refused, Gerfast should have complained to the management . . . not start wrestling with him over the cell phone. While his motives may have been good, I would be pissed as hell if some old guy tried this on me!
Good for them. I too refuse to sit in a public place and listen to language like that. I've asked many a fellow to tone down his language. Most do so, though every now and then you'll encounter a punk who wants to get a bit feisty.
MM
The guy I quoted was the one that brought age into it. Honestly, I would be pissed as hell if ANYONE tried that with me.
Put on your asbestos suit, but you're right. Let them refuse to serve the jerk or throw him out of the store.
The old guy wasn't charged with assault and sued for $100M for "censorship" by ACLU LOY-ahs.
79 puts him at about WW2 age. They generally don't take things to management.
I doubt that you'd be using foul language in a public place. This idiot (cell phone user) got what he deserved but unfortunately political correctness, which rules our society, will always slam the defender of good while evil goes its own way free and happy.
And the old guy was apparently 'pissed as hell' that the phone talker didn't have any consideration for those around him.
Then maybe a trip in front of a judge a few times will illustrate the need to take things to management.
They don't mind. It beats being shelled in a foxhole.
Cell-phone boy came out the worst on this one.
"79 puts him at about WW2 age. They generally don't take things to management."
yep. today you hold a candlelight vigil at the news station, hold hands in a circle with your lawyers and Congresswoman while singing Kum-by-ya.
In most instances, you would be correct. However, if I did choose to, it's my choice. I don't think it's illegal. Even if it is, not this guy's job to enforce it.
I hate busybodies. The f word never killed anyone.
He had the choice to leave as well.
And it's another person's choice to tell you that you are less than a man for doing so. And you just have to take that and like it.
Okay, I can accept that. And had Gerfast stopped at asking him to stop, there would have been no problem. He instigated a physical altercation. That's where he took it too far.
But, on another note, I'm not sure using profanity makes someone "less than a man". Rude? Yes. A wuss? Nah.
I guess you're right, however I am of the age where you hit first and ask questions later. The idiot politicians have taken all the fun out of life for the do gooders.
Simple solution: get out your cell phone and start walking near him, singing "Jesus Loves Me." If he complains, simply explain that you're singing to your granddaughter.
So, go run to "Mommy" when they act like a-holes?
I would have taken the damn phone and tried to give him an enema with it. And I don't care how "Pissed" anyone gets. You assault my ears with your profanity, I'm gonna assault your head with my fist.
You have no "right" to sit and carry on like that in a public place. Your "rights" end at the tip of my nose or my eardrums; then, you're mine.
Many here complain about how "litigious" everyone has gotten, and how there is no common sense about how things are solved and how fast things ratchet out of control. (a 10 year old in Philly being handcuffed and "arrested" for bringing a pair of scissors to school.)
But when confronted with a reality like this, the first knee-jerk reaction is to run to the Nanny, just like everyone else, thereby perpetuating a system that is idiotic.
A little well placed violence could, and would, bring this run-a-muck society back into some semblance of politeness.
Go gettum Gramps.
And when you punch someone for swearing, you will go to jail. I doubt that you will be able to do much about the swearing you encounter there.
Jesse Russell Tabor, 40, of Minneapolis entered the bakery with his 13-year-old daughter.
I don't believe Bluegrass that you would talk this way in front of your daughter, or in the presence of any woman. Then, again, I may be wrong about you.
I have used public humiliation in this situation. I did something similar in a Denny's, when someone at the next table was wearing a hat with "FCUK YOU!" across the front. I was there with my 8 and 11 year old kids. Lots of other children were all around.
I asked him to take it off, he ignored me. So I stood up in that Denny's and used MY 1st amd rights. I publicly asked for a manager, in a voice which could be heard across the restaurant.
"Can you get a manager over hear? We have a pervert here who thinks his hat is great to show to small children." I said, "You're no different than a flasher on a playground, you know it? You get off on this don't you?"
He started saying, "Can't you read, it doesn't say anything bad."
I kept going, he slid off the hat and put it under the table as the managers came speed walking out.
We left. It was very tense, but I avoided punching him, and avoided assault charges.
Time and place friend. There is a time and place for everything. I'm no prude. But when I'm in a restaurant with family, I won't stand for that type of behavior.
Go to jail? Not a threat.
In front of my daughter or any kid of this age? No, not by any means. However, I have some female friends that could outcuss me on any given day. Not that big of a deal around them. I've always thought that the choice language was a little more acceptable around your close friends.
"He had the choice to leave as well". And the world has to accommodate to ill-bred people wherever? I know not! Those who care not where they use the f word are the ones who need to watch where they are and who is around. Shame and inconvenience belong to the abusers, not to those who behave decently.
Having an expectation of common decency in a public place is not being a busy body. I don't hesitate to tell people to tone it down, espicially if my kids are around. I don't think the retired gentleman went after him because of the language, I think it was because of a complete lack of respect.
It may not be harmful per se but it is downright vulgar and disrespectful especially around children and the elderly.
Isn't that why he:
1. Let go of the phone
2. Pled guilty and took the 3 months probation
Yes, that was one of his choices. Not the one he selected, however.
cell phone boy was so proud of himself , he didn't even show up for court. must have thought he had a pretty weak
case.
Thanks for the pass to the article.
About the article, the guy that objected to the cursing could have handled it better - even before he grabbed the phone. Telling someone to "take it outside" is not going to be met with the desired response.
You have no "right" to sit and carry on like that in a public place. Your "rights" end at the tip of my nose or my eardrums; then, you're mine.
You have a right not to be assaulted. You do NOT have a right NOT to be offended.
Swinging at someone for language where I live can get you shot, but you are welcome to try.
There is no right to not be assaulted when you are a bully.
Also, assaulting a sh*t head who is bent on publican humiliating you is not assault. It's defense.
What's wrong with this generation? Always want to run to someone else when you get bullied.
What I'm saying here is too many people are afraid of the consequences when the bully is not. In the first weeks of 8th grade, bullies bothered me. One day, I swung and hit. Broke his nose. SOP at that time: three smacks with the paddle from the Principle, 3 days suspension, 5 smacks from Dad.
Epilogue: Was never bothered by bullies again, they figured out I was willing to take the hit to put an end to them. Best punishment I ever took.
Swinging at someone for language where I live can get you shot, but you are welcome to try.
Then you live with a bunch of criminals who would be shot back.
Probably stomp his osteoporotic old bones into sawdust, I'll bet.
Taking a dump on the hood of someones car never killed anyone, but, that doesn't mean the perp doesn't need to be corrected.
Kudos to this man for defending common decency.
I had a similar incident happen about a year ago, but I had the advantage of age (and size:-)) over a group of foul-mouthed little punks.
I took my wife and two young children to Taco Bell for a quick Saturday afternooon lunch. It was relatively sparse in the restaraunt, except for a few other patrons and a group of three or four teenagers in the corner.
No sooner did we sit down, when the f-bombs were flying all over the place. Strictly rap/ghetto slang and profanity - a very educated conversation from the shining pinnacle of urban St Paul youth </sarcasm>. I got so fed up that I stood up, turned around at this group and barked at them to shut their yaps or there was gonna be heads spinning. Told them thet my young kids weren't going to be exposed to that kind of gutter trash.
The look of utter astonishment that someone actually SAID something to them was priceless. Of course, when I turned back to sit down, one of them started to mock me with the 'f*** you, mother******', etc, etc. Well, I got up, started to walk towards them, and they all quickly got up and high tailed it out the door.
I got verbal thank you's from the remaining patrons.
Here is what he said:
"Mr. Gerfast went up there and tapped him on the shoulder and said, 'Sir' — and Gerfast is really a strait-laced guy — and said, 'Sir, would you mind taking this phone call outside?'
I can't imagine how he could have said it any more tactful than that.
Telling someone to "take is outside" is the same words you use when you are looking to fight. I'm sure he did not mean it that way, but who knows how the guy heard it.
One thing for sure, the guy that was cursing on the phone was a jerk and was not going to respond well to direct confrontation. Something on the order of, "Gee, sorry to bother you. Excuse me. Gee sorry, can I ask you a question? It is really important. You see, my friend and I are sitting over hear and we could not help but overhearing the problem you are having. Now I know it is none of my business and you seem like a real nice guy, but I was wonder if you would not mind, like, gee I don't want you to think I being confrontational or anything, but well, you were kindof like saying the F word really loud and I know you are upset and all which is why I figured you are a nice guy and maybe did not realize. I know I do the same sometimes and well I'd appreciate it is someone let me know. So really, I'm just concerned for any of the children....
In short, you get the guy off his frustration level with the call by being a bit long winded and getting him to focus his attention on, what they heck does this guy want instead of what is other problem is with his house.
The old guy used direct confrontation with the first words out of his mouth. The guy is already upset. How the heck does he think he is going to react with one more aggrevation coming at him when his stress level is already tweeking.
And if nothing else, while you are talking to him he will not be cursing so you will have in effect already accomplished your goal. Likely what would have happened is the guy would have walked outside on his own.
"Direct confrontation"?
Face it, "cellphone guy" was a jerk (and, as it turns out, a criminal), if he is offended by that, he is a sociopath and shouldn't be out on the street.
It is for that reason that Pat Leahy should have left the Senate when Dick Cheney told him to "Go f**k yourself". LOL
Perhaps, but he showed that he was a real man by pleading guilty and taking his punishment.
Whatever happened to the notion that one shouldn't disturb the peace? The cell-phone guy was upsetting many people, and management would probably have done nothing about it.
I've yet to see a remotely 'conservative' post from Bluegrass Conservative.
Actually swearing in some situations can land you in jail. It is illegal in some states to use foul language in public, or in public around kids. I remember a guy in a canoe got taken to court several years back for swearing in public.
This man should have made a citizens arrest :)
EWWW! Good one! I think I will use that for all the guys I hear using Jesus as a curse word. For years Jews have been taught it is a curse others just despise the name as a result of habit.
How did they get him into the court in a canoe?
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