Posted on 12/15/2004 11:24:22 AM PST by Tumbleweed_Connection
#1. There is no seperation of church and state. There is just a prohibition against the government establishing a state religion.
A. This has it's bearings due to how the Pope could rule a country by interdiction or excommunication of the country's leader if the leader or country displeased the Pope. Interdiction for a country meant no weddings, christenings, funeral rites, etc.
B. This is due also to what King Hengry VIII did when he broke with Rome and instead of the Pope being the head of the Church of England, Henry VIII and every English monarch after him became head of the church, thus controlling the people's religious life and the people's secular life. So if they couldn't get you by law they'd get you by religion and visa versa.
C. Cromwell went after church groups who didn't believe in how the Church of England believed. I believe he had many of the members killed.
#2. God is not the Creator's name. It's a generic word we use for the one who is our Father, Creator, The Almighty, The I am.
Some who have read the early Hebrew writings *might* know the true name of God. I don't know if they've found it out or not but I know it's a name I don't really want to know because to utter it is to draw upon the power of the Creator. It's just too dangerous for the average person to know His name.
See what dogma does for people when they don't even know that they don't know their Father's name yet they presume that they do because that's what their religion or church has told them and they have never stopped to read the bible, think for themselves nor question anything?
I believe that's one of the reasons that Martin Luther wanted the Bible in the people's hands instead of just the priests telling them what it said.
I believe he wanted them to read for themselves, think for themselves, find The Creator themselves without the dogma from the churches. Therefore, to me, the generic word God can mean any god that religion worships. It could mean Budha, Allah, Shiva, whoever.
That's me, Mr. Reasonable. :^}
Actually, I do say the pledge.
I didn't use to (in high school when we were forced to say it each morning). The reason that I didn't is two-fold. First of all, I didn't like the idea of being forced to do so, and second, I felt as if I was lying by saying it. Because our nation doesn't always act "under God".
I have decided in recent years that this is not a lie, more like a hope, that some day we WILL be a nation, undivided, under God. Thus, I say the pledge now.
I do not, however, agree that someone who holds different beliefs in this situation is "nutty" or an "extremist". Even though that isn't the popular belief even among Christians. Most Christians I know are actually very patriotic.
Oh, and THANK YOU SO MUCH for those verses. I was trying to find the verses that tell us to submit to our authorities to bring glory to Him, and I could not find them the other day.
And I am still not convinced that your blanket statement holds true...although I am convinced that YOU hold it as truth.
Oh I totally agree that this guy was "nutty" for making a scene! It's one thing to believe something, and to quietly refrain from saying the pledge. Although, he would not be excused for doing so because he's in the public eye and supposed to be representing a group of people. But, for example, when I didn't say the pledge in high school, I never said anything about it. I even stood up, just didn't say anything, or put my hand on my heart. I didn't jump and scream about how I didn't have to say it if I didn't want to! :) That *would* have made me nutty! ;)
And yet, no President can be elected without at least pretending to be religious. What do you think the odds are that we'll see a self-professed non-Christian in the White House during our lifetimes?
Have you heard the latest on this? Habecker has won an injunction on the recall election from a Federal Judge in Denver. My wife predicted that he would make a Federal case of this back in Nov. He has addressed some meeting in Ft. Collins where he said he was interested in having the Pledge, not just the words "under God", removed from public schools. Much to the chagrin of everyone in my old hometown of Estes Park he has made this a national issue.
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