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Politician Who Won't Say Pledge Of Allegiance May Be Recalled
Local6 ^ | Ded 15, 2004

Posted on 12/15/2004 11:24:22 AM PST by Tumbleweed_Connection

A recall election is now set for an Estes Park, Colo., trustee who refuses to stand up and recite the Pledge of Allegiance during the Town Board meetings.

"I have not been standing for the Pledge of Allegiance due to a conflict I have with the wording of the pledge, specifically the words 'under God,'" Councilman David Habecker said.

Habecker said it's a violation of church and state to include the words in the pledge and for that reason, he won't stand.

The board began reciting the pledge before meetings earlier this year at the suggestion of Trustee Lori Jeffrey-Clark. She suggested it as a way to show respect for the country during wartime.

Jeffrey-Clark said Habecker is expressing his personal views, not representing townspeople, when he sits down.

Habecker, who's served on the Town Board for 12 years, said he doesn't oppose the meaning of the pledge, and considers himself a patriot.

But some other council members and residents are upset about his actions and have enough signatures to hold a recall election. That recall election will occur Tuesday, Feb. 15.

All residents will vote on whether to recall David Habecker and a choice for his replacement in the event the recall passes. The recall is expected to cost a few thousand dollars.

"I'm sad for the community, that there is that much intolerance in our community. But if the people want to have a voice in what's going on, this is their way of doing it. And I will respect whatever the wishes of the community are," Habecker said.

Estes Park, which has about 5,500 residents, is the eastern gateway to Rocky Mountain National Park about 60 miles northwest of Denver.


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 1stamendment; citycouncil; colorado; estespark; habecker; pledge; pledgeofallegiance; undergod
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1 posted on 12/15/2004 11:24:22 AM PST by Tumbleweed_Connection
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

Fire him.


2 posted on 12/15/2004 11:26:44 AM PST by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
"I'm sad for the community, that there is that much intolerance in our community. But if the people want to have a voice in what's going on, this is their way of doing it. And I will respect whatever the wishes of the community are," Habecker said.

Damned skippy Habecker.
3 posted on 12/15/2004 11:27:00 AM PST by Jaysun (I'm pleased to report that Arafat's condition remains stable.)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
I honeymooned there, and would love to retire there, but sheesh - even if you don't want to say "under God", stand up.

In fact, say the whole darn thing except "under God", cheese-eating surrender monkey!

4 posted on 12/15/2004 11:27:10 AM PST by sandalwood ("Hail to alcohol - the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems")
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
considers himself a patriot.

For what country? Cuba? North Korea?

5 posted on 12/15/2004 11:27:40 AM PST by bassmaner (Let's take the word "liberal" back from the commies!!)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

I liked his line about intolerance. he's the one who is so intolerant about God that he can't bring himself to utter the name! He's the one so full of anti-Christ hate that he can't mention God.


6 posted on 12/15/2004 11:28:15 AM PST by camle (keep your mind open and somebody will fill it with something for you))
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
considers himself a patriot.

Fine. How about considering himself a representative of his constituents?

-PJ

7 posted on 12/15/2004 11:28:45 AM PST by Political Junkie Too (It's still not safe to vote Democrat.)
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To: wideawake
Habecker said it's a violation of church and state to include the words in the pledge and for that reason, he won't stand.

Too dumb to serve.

8 posted on 12/15/2004 11:29:08 AM PST by thulldud (It's bad luck to be superstitious.)
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To: Jaysun

Habecker seems to be the guy who is intolerant. Maybe he needs to go somewhere else ~ just to improve things locally you know.


9 posted on 12/15/2004 11:30:43 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: wideawake
I have to disagree. I'm not a big fan of recalls, unless the office holder did something truly and provably criminal. Politicians who piss off voters with bad decisions or acts like the one in the article should be voted out of office when their term is up, not removed by recall.
10 posted on 12/15/2004 11:30:43 AM PST by KoRn
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

Councilman David Habecker

11 posted on 12/15/2004 11:30:51 AM PST by jigsaw (God Bless Our Troops.)
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: Tumbleweed_Connection

Cut his head off.


13 posted on 12/15/2004 11:32:50 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: kristinn

p!ng


14 posted on 12/15/2004 11:33:03 AM PST by Prime Choice (I like Democrats, too. Let's exchange recipes.)
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Should a town trustee be recalled because he refuses to stand up and say the Pledge of Allegiance during Town Board meetings?
Choice Votes Percentage of 4964 Votes
Yes. 3772 76%
No. 1192 24%


15 posted on 12/15/2004 11:33:22 AM PST by Ellesu
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Habecker said it's a violation of church and state to include the words in the pledge and for that reason, he won't stand.

What part of "Congress shall make no law" does this moonbat not understand? I'll be happy to explain it to him.

16 posted on 12/15/2004 11:33:50 AM PST by mhking
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Habecker said it's a violation of church and state to include the words in the pledge and for that reason, he won't stand.

That has to be the most poorly constructed sentence I've seen this month.

How would standing to recite the Pledge violate the church? For that matter, how would it violate the state?

Did the writer mean to say that this weenie said it is the separation of church and state that would be violated? If so, Mr. Habecker must have been referring to the First Amendment of The Constitution of The United States of America. In which case, he is wrong. That's not what the First Amendment says.

Why is it that people who write for newspapers don't know how to write?

17 posted on 12/15/2004 11:35:30 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (All I ask from livin' is to have no chains on me. All I ask from dyin' is to go naturally.)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

Gee whiz, this guy deserves credit for standing up for his beliefs, and at some risk. Most politicians, atheist or not, would just repeat the word under God even if they believed otherwise. Who would you rather have in office? A hypocrite?


18 posted on 12/15/2004 11:35:49 AM PST by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

Let me guess ... Democrat.


19 posted on 12/15/2004 11:35:53 AM PST by shekkian
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To: wideawake

"Fire him."

I think he's just fired himself. Garners enough respect and support from the community to be elected to a position of public trust and then in a fit of self-important arrogance denies that community the service he was elected to perform on the basis of refusal to acknowledge God. What a duplicitous putz. I hope they put him in retirement before he can pull some other PC crap.


20 posted on 12/15/2004 11:36:39 AM PST by Lee Heggy
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

I love the way these morons claim to be 'patriots'.


21 posted on 12/15/2004 11:39:03 AM PST by SolutionsOnly
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
"I have not been standing for the Pledge of Allegiance due to a conflict I have with the wording of the pledge, specifically the words 'under God,'" Councilman David Habecker said.

Presumably he'd have less of a "conflict" with alternate wordings, such as (oh, say) "under the United Nations," or "under The State."

22 posted on 12/15/2004 11:39:15 AM PST by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle (I feel more and more like a revolted Charlton Heston, witnessing ape society for the very first time)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

If the words "Under God" really bother him that much he could just not say them when he says the pledge. But if he did that he wouldnt make the Statement he is trying to make nor would it prove his stupidity half as well. Hopeful;ly the people will help him by making a statement of their own and firing his dumb a$$


23 posted on 12/15/2004 11:39:47 AM PST by sgtbono2002
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

Kick-in-the-pants Bump


24 posted on 12/15/2004 11:39:50 AM PST by roaddog727 (The marginal propensity to save is 1 minus the marginal propensity to consume.)
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To: SolutionsOnly
I love the way these morons claim to be 'patriots'.

Wait until he tries to turn it into a "values" issue.

-PJ

25 posted on 12/15/2004 11:39:50 AM PST by Political Junkie Too (It's still not safe to vote Democrat.)
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To: Lee Heggy

Duplictious? Who would you rather have in office, just another politician hypocrite who may not believe the words but lies. I guess people here don't want honest politicians.


26 posted on 12/15/2004 11:44:09 AM PST by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

They write for newspapers because they can't get published anywhere else! LOL


27 posted on 12/15/2004 11:48:26 AM PST by exnavychick (Just my two cents, as usual.)
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To: bassmaner
considers himself a patriot.

For what country? Cuba? North Korea?

So if someone doesn't believe that the Nation is subordinate to a Deity, they're a communist? Sheesh.

The fact is, he's right, and this is a classic example of why the declaration of subordination to God (a concept appearing nowhere in the Constitution) doesn't belong in a patriotic affirmation.

-Eric

28 posted on 12/15/2004 11:49:36 AM PST by E Rocc (Help a liberal beat "PEST": Loan them "Unfit For Command".)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution
of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
29 posted on 12/15/2004 11:50:17 AM PST by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: wideawake
This guy should be recalled because he won't bow down before a flag? That's preposterous.

That's what elections are for. They can vote against him next time.

30 posted on 12/15/2004 11:50:55 AM PST by Protagoras (Christmas is not a secular holiday)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
This guys should be recalled because he obliviously does not understand the form of government we have in the United States.
He is supposed to be representing everyone of us his constituents.
By not reciting the Pledge during in a public forum is tantamount to dereliction of duty.
Just another politician that see himself as larger than the office they hold.
He was elected to serve the public, not to use his office as tool to promote his personal beliefs.

He should be hanged. He doesn't believe in God, so we should be indifferent as to the morality of his existence.

Meaning hanging him versus not hanging him is equally moral from a atheistic standpoint.
31 posted on 12/15/2004 11:52:05 AM PST by t-1000
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To: KoRn
I have to disagree. I'm not a big fan of recalls, unless the office holder did something truly and provably criminal.

I agree that recalls should only be used in extreme circumstances. Voters should take elections seriously and watch who they're voting for. I would have to say life is pretty good if the major issue in a community is the Pledge of Allegiance.
32 posted on 12/15/2004 11:52:11 AM PST by Ticonderoga34
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To: joesnuffy
The oath of office required by the sixth article of the Constitution of the United States, and as provided by section 2 of the act of May 13, 1884 (23 Stat. 22), to be administered to Members, Resident Commissioner, and Delegates of the House of Representatives, the text of which is carried in 5 U.S.C. 3331:

I, Loyal Citizen of the Republic, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

has been subscribed to in person and filed in duplicate with the Clerk of the House of Representatives by the Members of Congress, pursuant to the provisions of 2 U.S.C. 25

33 posted on 12/15/2004 11:53:25 AM PST by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: Political Junkie Too
Everytime I here "violation of church and state" I go back to my copy of the Constitution and Bill of Rigths to make sure it hasn't changed to include that clause.

Nope, still not there. Isn't it freedom of religion as opposed to from religion?

34 posted on 12/15/2004 11:56:42 AM PST by dnmore
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
I'm sad for the community, that there is that much intolerance in our community.

You mean that they don't suffer fools to remain in their presence?

35 posted on 12/15/2004 11:59:48 AM PST by Camachee
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To: camle
...He's the one so full of anti-Christ hate that he can't mention God.

Christianity does not have God under an exclusive contract.

36 posted on 12/15/2004 12:02:03 PM PST by harrowup (Just naturally perfect and humble of course)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

I have a feeling he would have less trouble reciting the Pledge if it was "one nation, under Goddess."


37 posted on 12/15/2004 12:02:12 PM PST by JennysCool (Prayers up 24/7 for Allegra's safe return.)
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To: Austin Willard Wright
"I guess people here don't want honest politicians."

I like honest politicians. I want more honest politicians. Lots more honest politicians. What I don't like or want is more STUPID politicians. You know, like this bumbleheaded idiot. Who by the way wont be a politician for much longer. He he.




38 posted on 12/15/2004 12:02:18 PM PST by sinclair (If you don't stop and think, then it doesn't matter whether you are a genius or a moron.)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

Does he accept the money? IN GOD WE TRUST!


39 posted on 12/15/2004 12:03:28 PM PST by 7thson (I think it takes a big dog to weigh a hundred pounds!)
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To: harrowup

i never said that they did. but you can safely bet that he ain't dissing the muslim version.


40 posted on 12/15/2004 12:03:45 PM PST by camle (keep your mind open and somebody will fill it with something for you))
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To: Austin Willard Wright; Eric in the Ozarks
Gee whiz, this guy deserves credit for standing up for his beliefs, and at some risk.

Think he mentioned his objection to the voters before the election?

Michael M. Bates: My Side of the Swamp

41 posted on 12/15/2004 12:04:55 PM PST by Mike Bates (If you've been very, very good, Santa may give you. . . .)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
"I'm sad for the community, that there is that much intolerance in our community.

I don't suppose it ever occurred to this dickhead that he is the one who is intolerant.

Just one more liberal double standard.
42 posted on 12/15/2004 12:09:23 PM PST by Beckwith (John, you said I was going to be the First Lady, as of now, you're on the couch . . .)
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To: camle
...i never said that they did. but you can safely bet that he ain't dissing the muslim version.

When you equate his distain for ...under God with anti-Christ hate that is precisely what you have done, and it is tiresome.

43 posted on 12/15/2004 12:11:58 PM PST by harrowup (Just naturally perfect and humble of course)
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To: thulldud
If this birkenstocker can't interpret the difference between the anti-establishment clause and some dopey "wall of separation," then fire him and bar him from public service for the rest of his life.
44 posted on 12/15/2004 12:16:53 PM PST by ashtanga
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Habecker said it's a violation of church and state to include the words in the pledge and for that reason, he won't stand.

I know all six of those words, but the phrase doesn't make sense. How does one violate church and state? I'd love to know, 'cause I like to do my violating wholesale instead of one at a time.
45 posted on 12/15/2004 12:17:56 PM PST by Xenalyte (Anything is possible when you don't understand how anything happens.)
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To: t-1000

My vote for the goofiest post of the day award.


46 posted on 12/15/2004 12:19:39 PM PST by Protagoras (Christmas is not a secular holiday)
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To: harrowup

i apologize if defending christianity is tiresome.

BTW: I dig your tagline


47 posted on 12/15/2004 12:19:44 PM PST by camle (keep your mind open and somebody will fill it with something for you))
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To: All
I'll bet ya 1000 bucks that this dude has stood many times "for the flag". Betcha he was even a boyscout. His problem is deeper. He can leave out the words which he "thinks" is imposing Christianity on him by the government.

Just another "15 minutes of fame" JERK.

48 posted on 12/15/2004 12:19:46 PM PST by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: Protagoras
This guy should be recalled because he won't bow down before a flag? That's preposterous.

Who said anything about bowing?

That's what elections are for. They can vote against him next time.

Whichever way they want to do it.

49 posted on 12/15/2004 12:22:13 PM PST by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: dnmore
Isn't it freedom of religion as opposed to from religion?

They always seem to stop reading just when they get to the part about not "abridging the free exercise thereof."

-PJ

50 posted on 12/15/2004 12:22:47 PM PST by Political Junkie Too (It's still not safe to vote Democrat.)
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