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Politician Who Won't Say Pledge Of Allegiance May Be Recalled
Local6 ^ | Ded 15, 2004

Posted on 12/15/2004 11:24:22 AM PST by Tumbleweed_Connection

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To: t-1000
He should be hanged. He doesn't believe in God, so we should be indifferent as to the morality of his existence

Dumb.

Meaning hanging him versus not hanging him is equally moral from a atheistic standpoint.

And dumber.

51 posted on 12/15/2004 12:23:39 PM PST by Modernman (Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. --Benjamin Franklin)
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To: wideawake

""I'm sad for the community, that there is that much intolerance in our community. But if the people want to have a voice in what's going on, this is their way of doing it. And I will respect whatever the wishes of the community are," Habecker said. "

Unfortunately he doesn't get it. He is the intolerant one.



52 posted on 12/15/2004 12:23:50 PM PST by EQAndyBuzz (60 votes and the world changes.)
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To: muawiyah
Habecker seems to be the guy who is intolerant. Maybe he needs to go somewhere else ~ just to improve things locally you know.

Only the nuts and extremist sit out the Pledge of Allegiance for any reason. He's free to be "different" just as we're free to be disgusted by him.
53 posted on 12/15/2004 12:25:46 PM PST by Jaysun (I'm pleased to report that Arafat's condition remains stable.)
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To: Austin Willard Wright

I'd bet he never mentioned his feelings about the Pledge during the campaign.


54 posted on 12/15/2004 12:26:05 PM PST by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

Because they are too busy crusading and righting the wrongs we conservatives perpetrate to worry about such trifles as proper grammar and factual accuracy! And you have the nerve to criticize those engaged in such a noble undertaking. For shame, pirate man. ;)


55 posted on 12/15/2004 12:27:07 PM PST by Xenalyte (Anything is possible when you don't understand how anything happens.)
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To: wideawake
Who said anything about bowing?

You got the idea.

" That's what elections are for. They can vote against him next time."

Whichever way they want to do it.

Ok, so the whole recall idea is goofy, like I said. The issue is the recall, not whether the guy is right or wrong. Recalls aren't for this stuff. He has no obligations in that regard.

56 posted on 12/15/2004 12:30:13 PM PST by Protagoras (Christmas is not a secular holiday)
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To: joesnuffy

""I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution
of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.""




The final four words are optional in those oaths. One may affirm the oath, leaving off those words.


57 posted on 12/15/2004 12:31:53 PM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Modernman
If you are going to critique my post, at least have the decency to explain why it is "Dumb" or "Dumber".

Perhaps it was easier just to say it was "Dumb" rather than actually explaining why it was "Dumb".
Or do you just say things that have no intelligent thought behind them?
58 posted on 12/15/2004 12:32:18 PM PST by t-1000
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To: camle
***one so full of anti-Christ hate that he can't mention God.***

Probably has a fear of melting if he utters that word GOD.

59 posted on 12/15/2004 12:32:46 PM PST by daybreakcoming (Merry CHRISTmas to all)
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To: daybreakcoming

it's merely another form of bigotry.


60 posted on 12/15/2004 12:33:51 PM PST by camle (keep your mind open and somebody will fill it with something for you))
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To: t-1000

Your post was dumb because you assumed that atheists have no moral code and do not see anything wrong with comitting murder.


61 posted on 12/15/2004 12:35:24 PM PST by Modernman (Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. --Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
... and considers himself a patriot.

I doubt he even knows what that word means.

62 posted on 12/15/2004 12:36:42 PM PST by shekkian
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
[Rant] Why is it that the people who try to become exemplars of atheism are almost always the least qualified to do so? Always trying to argue a nonexistent line in the Bill of Rights?

Refusing to stand for the pledge is the type of stupid grandstanding that gets people ejected from public office. Its not like it would have killed him to just keep his mouth shut during the part he does not approve, or simply stand quietly. In my mind there are only two valid reasons for not rising for the pledge...

1) You are physically incapable of rising.

2) Your religion forbids swearing oaths to anything or anyone beside God.

If you want to tell a smart atheist/agnostic from a dumb one, ask them why they do not say the 'under God' in the pledge. If the word 'separation' pops up near either 'church' or 'state', then their busted. If they did the reading they would know that particular phrase comes from the correspondence of Thomas Jefferson, -not- the Bill of Rights.

Personally speaking, I would prefer it if 'under God' were not in the pledge. Not because the mention of God in a declaration of loyalty bothers me, but because I prefer the version that was used up until the 1950's. Of course, thats just me, and I could be wrong.[/Rant]

On a side note, doesn't it seem odd that the recall happened as quickly as it did? The numbers are strong enough, but it almost feels like someone is trying to get rid of him, possibly to create a vacancy for an associate.
63 posted on 12/15/2004 12:36:57 PM PST by ClockworkNinja (The first time we fought the UN's way was the Korean War. We are still there. Think about that.)
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To: Protagoras
I think you are experiencing a bit of tunnel vision.
I am using an extreme example of how ridiculous atheist are.
Do you not find irony in the fact that this person who is a "lawmaker" stands in direct opposition of the very thing that is the foundation of law and government?
I said hang him because it illustrates a fact that kind not be denied. That life in-itself his held at a moral high ground because of religion, not because of man. Thus the removal of life should make no difference in the absence of religion.

Or was it just easier for you not to think and just dismiss everything a stupid?
64 posted on 12/15/2004 12:39:57 PM PST by t-1000
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To: Austin Willard Wright
He is not representing himself.

He is representing the people who elected him.

65 posted on 12/15/2004 12:42:18 PM PST by TexasCowboy (Texan by birth, citizen of Jesusland by the Grace of God)
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To: t-1000
Or was it just easier for you not to think and just dismiss everything a stupid?

I didn't dismiss everything as stupid.

Only the things you said.

66 posted on 12/15/2004 12:44:02 PM PST by Protagoras (Christmas is not a secular holiday)
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To: Modernman
Please explain what moral code is if it is not a direct descendant of religion?
All laws and morals are because of religion.

From an evolutionary prospective:
Man has no interest in preserving other men unless they can be used to insure his existence.
This is why 95% of all male mammals live outside their packs.
67 posted on 12/15/2004 12:44:53 PM PST by t-1000
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To: camle
Defense of any religion is never tiresome.

What is tiresome is the assertion by some that Christianity is the only path to God. It is similarly tiresome to hear from radical Zionists that opposing Israeli government actions is anti-Semitic, and then asserting that any such criticism from a Jew represents the view of a self-hating Jew.

This nonsense has been going on around here and elsewhere for far too long and I'm sick of having to wade through such pious unadulterated crap.

Enough is enough.

68 posted on 12/15/2004 12:46:44 PM PST by harrowup (Just naturally perfect and humble of course)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Oh yes. Yank him off the council.

He's not worthy to hold office in America. He has "reservations" about what we stand for.

He does not understand that his liberty flows from his creator...."one nation under God with liberty and justice for all"

69 posted on 12/15/2004 12:52:05 PM PST by NetValue (Trust the cobra before you trust the liberal.)
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To: t-1000
Please explain what moral code is if it is not a direct descendant of religion?

A moral code may be descended from religious moral codes, but that does not mean an atheist subscribes to that religion.

There are many aspects of the Christian moral code, for example, that are universal. No murder, no stealing etc. Some aspects of the Christian moral code are not universal and are purely religious in nature (no golden idols etc.)

Man has no interest in preserving other men unless they can be used to insure his existence.

Of course, but a smart man, whether religious or atheist, realizes that it is in his best interests to exist as part of a greater group.

70 posted on 12/15/2004 12:52:12 PM PST by Modernman (Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. --Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

Well....he's mentioning it now and has to run for reelection. Again, would you rather he lied (as most politicians do) and act the part of hypocrite?


71 posted on 12/15/2004 12:53:18 PM PST by Austin Willard Wright
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To: TexasCowboy

So he should lie (as most politicians with his views do) so as to better "represent" his district?


72 posted on 12/15/2004 12:54:45 PM PST by Austin Willard Wright
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To: harrowup

i never said that christianity was the only path to God. however it is percieved by many to be the main path, and therefore one that must be stamped out at all costs.

the elites have been waging war against God in general and Christianity in particular for decades and THAT is tiresome.

the fact that anybody equates my defence of God and Christianity with "Christianity is the only path..." shows the effect of social programming on that person.

We have been barraged with A + B = C for so many years that we unconciously think the way they have programmed us to think.

Be aware so you may take appropriate action against being led "down the garden path"


73 posted on 12/15/2004 12:57:00 PM PST by camle (keep your mind open and somebody will fill it with something for you))
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To: Modernman
You are failing to see the absolute hypocrisy of the politician.
Refusing to mention God when everything he does on a daily basis is directly attributed to the worship of God.

But none the less, my provocation of the issue has caused you to think about the issue from my prospective.
In that sense my statement did have relevance and is not "dumb".
74 posted on 12/15/2004 1:00:24 PM PST by t-1000
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To: Austin Willard Wright
No, he should represent the views of his consituents, and to do that, he has to know what they are.
This is a flagrant abuse of his power without any regard to the source of that power.
75 posted on 12/15/2004 1:04:54 PM PST by TexasCowboy (Texan by birth, citizen of Jesusland by the Grace of God)
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To: t-1000
This guys should be recalled because he obliviously does not understand the form of government we have in the United States.

He understands, and this isn't anything to be recalled over. Let the imbeciles who voted for him suffer with him, next time they might be more careful who they elect. So this was stupid.

He is supposed to be representing everyone of us his constituents.

You? He is your councilman? What if he represented someone who hated the pledge? Then it would be OK. Just one mind you, since he represents everyone. Another stupid statement.

By not reciting the Pledge during in a public forum is tantamount to dereliction of duty.

LOL, goofy as all the rest.

Just another politician that see himself as larger than the office they hold.

LOL, you are a funny guy. You don't know anything about the guy except what's in the article.

He was elected to serve the public, not to use his office as tool to promote his personal beliefs.

So, if he was in Germany in 1939, he would be wrong to refuse to say "Seig Heil"? (And don't get even goofier by saying I'm comparing the pledge to that)

He should be hanged.

LOL, a new high!!!

He doesn't believe in God, so we should be indifferent as to the morality of his existence.

Welcome to the Taliban and Ossama Bin Laden.

Like I said, goofiest post of the day award.

76 posted on 12/15/2004 1:06:14 PM PST by Protagoras (Christmas is not a secular holiday)
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To: t-1000
Refusing to mention God when everything he does on a daily basis is directly attributed to the worship of God.

I have no idea what you mean by this.

77 posted on 12/15/2004 1:06:21 PM PST by Modernman (Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. --Benjamin Franklin)
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To: JennysCool
Those who know their history know that it has always been and is now either "one nation under God with liberty and justice for all" OR "one nation under Islam with obedience and subservience for all". You have a choice!

France, Germany, Spain, and Norway are now seeing Islam on the march, swarming the East and the West. They are half-way under the whip already and they do not even see it.

Keep America free; keep your liberty; pledge allegiance to the Republic under God.

78 posted on 12/15/2004 1:06:44 PM PST by NetValue (Trust the cobra before you trust the liberal.)
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To: Xenalyte
And you have the nerve to criticize those engaged in such a noble undertaking?

Uhhhh...yep! And I'd do it again I would!

'Temerity' is my middle name.

Actually, it's Anthony but I'm thinking of changing it.    =;^)

79 posted on 12/15/2004 1:07:56 PM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (All I ask from livin' is to have no chains on me. All I ask from dyin' is to go naturally.)
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To: camle

Here's an interesting mental exercise: What do you and others think will be the next major liberal whine issues to come along? They constantly have to have SOMETHING to bitch about or they're miserable. If you'll think about it, twenty years ago, no one, not even hardcore liberals, griped about the pledge, or felt a burning desire to see homo marriages, or had a problem with MERRY CHRISTMAS, or any of a multitude of other examples.

Ever wonder what made each of these issues become so passionately important all at once? And what will be their whine issues in five years, ten years?

MM


80 posted on 12/15/2004 1:12:21 PM PST by MississippiMan (Americans should not be sacrificed on the altar of political correctness.)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

And all this time, I thought your middle name was Tiberius! Oh, wait, that's Captain Kirk. My bad.


81 posted on 12/15/2004 1:12:57 PM PST by Xenalyte (Anything is possible when you don't understand how anything happens.)
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To: TexasCowboy

Name me one politician who truly represnts the views of his constituents. 90 percent (a conservative estimate) of them are shameless liars. Why single this guy out for being honest?


82 posted on 12/15/2004 1:13:01 PM PST by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Austin Willard Wright

"Gee whiz, this guy deserves credit for standing up for his beliefs, and at some risk."

Actually, the article says he agrees with the pledge, he just thinks this is a violation of church and state. This makes him a moron, and one with a prominant position. Which is even worse.


83 posted on 12/15/2004 1:13:02 PM PST by melbell (groovy)
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To: melbell

A moron politician? Imagine that!


84 posted on 12/15/2004 1:14:08 PM PST by Austin Willard Wright
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To: sandalwood

My sister in law got married at Stanley Hotel there. I spent a week there and loved it. The local residents should fire this intolerant religous bigot.


85 posted on 12/15/2004 1:14:44 PM PST by KC_Conspirator (I am poster #48)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

Send him to Iraq that way we eliminate all the insurgents.


86 posted on 12/15/2004 1:16:13 PM PST by the conservative bean (Viva la Reagan Revolucion!!!!!)
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To: NetValue

If you deny that we are a nation under God, then we are a nation standing all alone. There is then no natural right, no God-given right, to liberty or justice. Then there is only the state. If our liberty and justice flow from the state, the state can remove them at will. Is this what we want to believe? It leads straight to chaos and dictatorship.


87 posted on 12/15/2004 1:18:29 PM PST by NetValue (Trust the cobra before you trust the liberal.)
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To: Austin Willard Wright

Its become part of the job description for politicians...


88 posted on 12/15/2004 1:19:09 PM PST by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
Jeffrey-Clark said Habecker is expressing his personal views, not representing townspeople, when he sits down.

He was elected to express his personal views, not to take a poll whenever it is time to vote. That doesn't mean the townspeople can't ostracize him, though. =)

89 posted on 12/15/2004 1:22:04 PM PST by Styria
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

Again. Nobody's contesting his right to be whatever - atheist, agnostic, another faith. Nobody's beating him about the head and shoulders about not reciting the words "under God." If he's such a patriot, you'd think he'd stand to recite the body of the pledge along with everyone else, omitting the offending phrase.
I suspect it's not about his beliefs or the offending phrase. It's about himself - ego - grandstanding as an intellect, a free thinker, whatever.


90 posted on 12/15/2004 1:23:03 PM PST by ArmyTeach (Non nobis, Domine, sed nomine tuo da gratia.)
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To: sandalwood
even if you don't want to say "under God", stand up.

Sure, he could just say the original version.

91 posted on 12/15/2004 1:23:41 PM PST by ASA Vet (What if there were no hypothetical questions?)
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To: Jaysun

"Only the nuts and extremist sit out the Pledge of Allegiance for any reason."

uh...what about people who will only pledge their allegiance to God? Are they "nuts" or "extremists"?

I despise blanket statements.


92 posted on 12/15/2004 1:23:53 PM PST by melbell (groovy)
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To: MississippiMan

in ten years Easter will be no more, and Christmas will be a "day of sharing". Churches will be taxed like casinos based upon revenue. Priests will have to be registered and tracked to prevent abuse. People who declare a religious beleif will be looked upon as primative savages who are unsophisticated and easliy led.

The Crucifix will be outlawed, and reading the bible will be considered ignorant hate speech.

Santa Claus, Christmas decorations of any kind, will be considered religious in nature and banned.

And don't forget - people who receive ashes on Ash Wednesday will be considered to carry the amrk of the beast.


93 posted on 12/15/2004 1:27:42 PM PST by camle (keep your mind open and somebody will fill it with something for you))
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To: joesnuffy
The US Constitution, Article II, Section I.

Clause 8: Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

No Deity involved. The addition is a completely voluntary comment that has no official status.

-Eric

94 posted on 12/15/2004 1:30:56 PM PST by E Rocc (Help a liberal beat "PEST": Loan them "Unfit For Command".)
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To: 7thson
Does he accept the money? IN GOD WE TRUST!
If someone wrote you a check for money they owed you and wrote "Vote Democrat" in the comments section, are you endorsing the Dims by cashing it?

-Eric

95 posted on 12/15/2004 1:33:46 PM PST by E Rocc (Help a liberal beat "PEST": Loan them "Unfit For Command".)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

"I'm sad for the community, that there is that much intolerance in our community. But if the people want to have a voice in what's going on, this is their way of doing it. And I will respect whatever the wishes of the community are," Habecker said.



Oh, but HIS intolerance is OK? Don't let the door hit you in the rear. How come he just now decided after 12 years that he wanted to refuse to say it?


96 posted on 12/15/2004 1:35:26 PM PST by cubreporter
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To: Modernman
Refusing to mention God when everything he does on a daily basis is directly attributed to the worship of God.

I have no idea what you mean by this.

It confused me too, though I could go about a hundred directions with it. Most of them "inappropriate". >:)

-Eric

97 posted on 12/15/2004 1:39:01 PM PST by E Rocc (Help a liberal beat "PEST": Loan them "Unfit For Command".)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

I respect someone willing to risk their job over a matter of principle.

Now, throw the bum out!!


98 posted on 12/15/2004 1:50:45 PM PST by Owl558 (Don't tread on me!)
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To: melbell
uh...what about people who will only pledge their allegiance to God? Are they "nuts" or "extremists"? I despise blanket statements.

Sorry, the fact that I've never heard of a Christian sitting out the Pledge of Allegiance on those grounds - so didn't think of that one. As a Christian myself, I'd find anyone that did that "nuts" or "extreme". So to answer you're question: yes.

Now, based on your question it seems likely that you don't recite the pledge for that reason. I don't know of any scripture that gives the idea that we can't pledge allegiance to our nation merit. In fact, I believe that the Bible speaks to the contrary:

"Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake; whether it be to the king, as supreme; or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evil doers, and for the praise of them that do well . . ." (I Peter 2:13-14)

"Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
"Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor."(Romans 13: 1,7)


Saluting the flag and saying the pledge is merely a way of showing respect, and is not of and by itself an act of worship. I salute the flag and say the Pledge of Allegiance, not because it represents another god, but because it symbolizes the many blessings - freedom being just one - which God has bestowed upon this nation.

If you feel like you're making an "oath" or worshiping an idol by saluting or saying the pledge then refrain - but don't deny that such a view isn't held by the mass majority of Christians and is therefore "extreme" or "nutty". I'm sorry that you despise blanket statements, but this one holds true.
99 posted on 12/15/2004 2:10:28 PM PST by Jaysun (I'm pleased to report that Arafat's condition remains stable.)
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To: ashtanga
If this birkenstocker...

Hey, I resemble that remark Candy Cane 1

100 posted on 12/15/2004 2:12:06 PM PST by sandalwood ("Hail to alcohol - the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems")
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