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Politician Who Won't Say Pledge Of Allegiance May Be Recalled
local6.com ^ | December 15, 2004 | local6

Posted on 12/15/2004 4:19:44 PM PST by crushelits


DENVER --
A recall election is now set for an Estes Park, Colo., trustee who refuses to stand up and recite the Pledge of Allegiance during the Town Board meetings.
I have not been standing for the Pledge of Allegiance due to a conflict I have with the wording of the pledge, specifically the words 'under God,'" Councilman David Habecker said.


Habecker said it's a violation of church and state to include the words in the pledge and for that reason, he won't stand.The board began reciting the pledge before meetings earlier this year at the suggestion of Trustee Lori Jeffrey-Clark. She suggested it as a way to show respect for the country during wartime.Jeffrey-Clark said Habecker is expressing his personal views, not representing townspeople, when he sits down.

Habecker, who's served on the Town Board for 12 years, said he doesn't oppose the meaning of the pledge, and considers himself a patriot.
But some other council members and residents are upset about his actions and have enough signatures to hold a recall election. That recall election will occur Tuesday, Feb. 15.All residents will vote on whether to recall David Habecker and a choice for his replacement in the event the recall passes. The recall is expected to cost a few thousand dollars."I'm sad for the community, that there is that much intolerance in our community. But if the people want to have a voice in what's going on, this is their way of doing it. And I will respect whatever the wishes of the community are," Habecker said.Estes Park, which has about 5,500 residents, is the eastern gateway to Rocky Mountain National Park about 60 miles northwest of Denver.




TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Colorado
KEYWORDS: 1stamendment; allegiance; colorado; estespark; habecker; pledge; pledgeofallegiance; politician; recalled; say; treason; undergod; who; wont
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1 posted on 12/15/2004 4:19:45 PM PST by crushelits
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To: crushelits

Yep, let the voters decide. I would vote in favor of the recall. Parley


2 posted on 12/15/2004 4:22:22 PM PST by Parley Baer
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To: crushelits

Unless, it is for religious reasons, there is no reason NOT to say it. I say it proudly with my students in my first grade class every day. Not one of them would even think of not saying it.


3 posted on 12/15/2004 4:23:15 PM PST by moog
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To: crushelits

The intolerance word. Justification for all things that are knee jerk reactions. Mighty civil of him to say he would leave office if recalled. Pseudo intellectuality is a requirement to be a liberal.


4 posted on 12/15/2004 4:24:45 PM PST by crazyhorse691 (We won. We don't need to be forgiving. Let the heads roll!!!!!!!!!)
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To: moog

Plus he could even do the 'lite' version...


5 posted on 12/15/2004 4:24:52 PM PST by Pikachu_Dad
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To: moog

Plus he could even do the 'lite' version...


6 posted on 12/15/2004 4:24:53 PM PST by Pikachu_Dad
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To: crushelits

That's great because I CANNOT TOLORATE ATHEISTS OR AGNOSTICS ANY LONGER!! Let the MAJORITY RULE!!


7 posted on 12/15/2004 4:28:46 PM PST by 26lemoncharlie (Defending America)
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To: Parley Baer
"I would vote in favor of the recall."

So would a lot of other people voting in a survey on Drudge.

For recall 25,127 81%

Against recall 5,883 19%

A lot of votes from a town of 5,500 residents.

8 posted on 12/15/2004 4:28:58 PM PST by TYVets (God so loved the world he didn't send a committee)
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To: crushelits

Throw him out!


9 posted on 12/15/2004 4:29:20 PM PST by RAY (They that do right are all heroes!)
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To: crushelits

He could recite it and mumble "under dog" without anyone noticing. This guy wants to be a turd and to make sure everyone notices.


10 posted on 12/15/2004 4:29:39 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: crushelits
Luddite commie b***ard doesn't have an email address, this is from the town website so it public



Mr. David Habecker
P. O. Box 70
Estes Park, CO 80517
Term Expires: 4/2006 (970) 586-2121 (H)

David is 54 years old and has been a resident and Building Designer in Estes Park since 1977. He is married to Susan, who is general manager and co-owner of The Appenzell Inn. They have a daughter Wendy, a son Christopher, and two extremely smart and good looking grandchildren. David is a former Chairman of the Bobcat Marching Band Boosters, former President of the Estes Park Lions Club, and former Estes Park Town Trustee.
11 posted on 12/15/2004 4:35:35 PM PST by keat
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To: keat
so it's public
12 posted on 12/15/2004 4:36:26 PM PST by keat
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To: crushelits

He should be able to not say the Pledge .... When he wins an election in Beijing.


13 posted on 12/15/2004 4:43:06 PM PST by Proud2BeRight
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To: crushelits

I am really getting tired of these lunatics waving their fanaticism in my face! Its not as if we don't disagree with them, only on our part it has to do with decency, morals, and patriotism. All of which these idiot leftist scumbags have none of.


14 posted on 12/15/2004 4:43:39 PM PST by vpintheak (Liberal = The antithesis of Freedom and Patriotism)
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To: Parley Baer
David is 54 years old and has been a resident and Building Designer in Estes Park since 1977.

i.e. too lazy, ignorant to get an Architectural Degree/License. Also, probably regularly breaking state and local laws by designing buildings without one.
15 posted on 12/15/2004 4:51:13 PM PST by keat
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To: crushelits
Habecker said it's a violation of church and state to include the words in the pledge and for that reason, he won't stand"

What law is that a violation of? i'd like for this "lawmaker" to quote me the law/article/whatever that says "Thous shalt have a separation of your churches and your state!" no such thing... a MINOR Supreme Court case used that line TO PROTECT... wait for it now... THE CHURCH FROM THE state! not the other way around!
16 posted on 12/15/2004 4:53:35 PM PST by gotmatt
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To: moog

Well, what if you believe you are being asked to support the profession a religious belief?


17 posted on 12/15/2004 4:54:13 PM PST by write_on61
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To: 26lemoncharlie

Then I guess you can't tolerate the First Amendment either, which after all is about protection of minority views.


18 posted on 12/15/2004 4:56:20 PM PST by write_on61
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To: write_on61
if you have no religious belief than lying shouldn't be too big of an apprehension for you... you have no one to answer to.
19 posted on 12/15/2004 4:57:27 PM PST by gotmatt
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To: crushelits
Another A-hole who thinks there's a "violition of separation of church and state" exists. What "violition" of a nonexistent sepaparation of church and state is this brainless and constitution no nothing basing this crap on?

FMCDH(BITS)

20 posted on 12/15/2004 5:00:38 PM PST by nothingnew (Kerry is gone...perhaps to Lake Woebegone)
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To: keat

Coward puke!


21 posted on 12/15/2004 5:01:45 PM PST by 7.62 x 51mm
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To: crushelits
I'd support a horse-whipping and a one-way ticket to Canada, if it were possible. What is it with these human dingleberries that they're showing their asses and acting like 12-year-olds lately? 'The Hell with The Pledge'. 'The Declaration of Independence is unconstitutional and school children mustn't be exposed to it'. 'CHRISTmas' is a violation of an intellectually dysfunctional 'separation of church and state' fantasy. Too damned bad. It's a part of our culture, it's a part of our sovereign foundation, and it's a part of thousands of years of human civilization. For those of you that don't like it, you have two choices: 1) Leave. 2) Kill yourself. Because there is no judge, no law, no amount of force or threat thereof, that will suppress or coerce the spirit and free will of The American Man to bend to your pathetic, craven, spiteful, self-loathing filled concept of what you want our society to be. You have proven, in word and deed, that you belong to this nation in name only; you deserve no consideration or courtesy over and above that, nor will you receive it. We will still stand before the flag with our hands on our hearts; we shall look upon the Declaration and the Consititution as absolute and involiate; and we shall view the trappings of our most sacred holiday with all the reverence that it commands. And you, should you choose to remain, shall exist in a Living Hell of your own making. We shall have no pity.


22 posted on 12/15/2004 5:08:16 PM PST by Viking2002 (Taglines? Vikings don't need no steenkin' taglines..............)
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To: crushelits

Note that he is just "not saying the pledge". He remains sitting, while others do so. If he is a 'Patriot' and not the A-hole he appears to be, why not stand, face the flag, place his hand over his heart and remain silent?

23 posted on 12/15/2004 5:08:17 PM PST by Michael.SF. ("My only regret in life is that none of my children are gay." - Sharon Osborne)
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To: crushelits
Everyone should stand for the Pledge. Whether they say it or not is up to the individual, but due respect or (to use the lefty vernacular) tolerance should be given to our nation's symbols.

I was at our Cub Scout pack meeting last night. We are a predominantly military community. My heart swelled with pride as the military who were in their "civvies" stood at attention when colors were presented. You can bet my hand was over my heart.

24 posted on 12/15/2004 5:08:57 PM PST by Ruth A.
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To: crushelits
"...But if the people want to have a voice in what's going on,..." IF the People want to have a voice! How arrogant! It's the people that ultimately put him there, either directly or through an appointment of an elected official. In any case, it shows the gall and outrageous sense of entitlement some politicians have.
25 posted on 12/15/2004 5:11:29 PM PST by elephantlips
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To: crushelits

he doesn't belong in this country. never mind as a public servant. recall, h*ll. He's unfit, failing the most basic test for citizenship. boot his sorry *ss out.


26 posted on 12/15/2004 5:12:42 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (if a man lives long enough, he gets to see the same thing over and over.)
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To: crushelits

Also here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1302076/posts


27 posted on 12/15/2004 5:12:43 PM PST by JoJo Gunn (More than two lawyers in any Country constitutes a terrorist organization. )
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To: crushelits

Can anyone supply an email address? Would be nice to send him a email just repeating "under God" along with a hardy Merry Christmas! Merry Christmas to all!


28 posted on 12/15/2004 5:15:33 PM PST by Bushbacker1 (Kill 'em till they're dead! Then kill 'em again!)
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To: crushelits

This piece of trash should be recalled. No elected official should remain in office in this country if they refuse to pledge their allegiance.


29 posted on 12/15/2004 5:18:29 PM PST by Wolfhound777 (It's not our job to forgive them. Only God can do that. Our job is to arrange the meeting)
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Hmmm. Wonder if Democrat gubernatorial candidate and twice-certified loser of the Washington governor's race, who yet refuses to concede, dragging us voters through the chaos of vote mangling, has ever refused to recite ...


30 posted on 12/15/2004 5:25:12 PM PST by GretchenM (What we do know has been filtered through the Old Media in large part.)
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To: crushelits

He should be sent back to Germany. He doesn't belong in America.


31 posted on 12/15/2004 5:29:00 PM PST by henderson field
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To: moog

There is no reason at all, religious reasons included. You are in this country. It is a Protestant Christian country. Respect that or leave. We'll make the sacrifice of continuing along without you.


32 posted on 12/15/2004 5:31:03 PM PST by henderson field
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To: henderson field
It is a Protestant Christian country

Damn, now I feel excluded.
33 posted on 12/15/2004 5:44:24 PM PST by keat
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To: vpintheak
I think this is more evidence of the fact that the leftwing nimrods have taken flight and that flocks of them have migrated from California andt the nimrods are beginning to nest in Colorado where the flocks are nominating and electing nimrods to public offices in that state.Hopefully this unusually silly and bothersome type of avian creature which reminds one of the dodo bird will not be able to tolerate the snow and winter conditions in Colorado and the invaders will quickly perish
34 posted on 12/15/2004 5:50:26 PM PST by bc boy (bc boy again)
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To: everyone

Recall him and end his public career.

Not saying "under God" is admissible. Not "pledging"
is OK if there is a religious objection to oaths,
as among Quakers. Not standing is UNACCEPTABLE and
an expression of contempt for majority values.

Recall proponents should be careful to make this
distinction.


35 posted on 12/15/2004 5:51:30 PM PST by California Patriot
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To: write_on61

Tolerate: Is an Allowable deviation from a STANDARD

So therefore I am tolerable of a minortiy point of view, I am tolerable of Minority views, I am a very TOLERABLE person, until whatever I am tolerating goes beyond the allowable deviation from that standard which the majority will set.

This is a Constutional Rebuplic and is Governed by the rule of the MAJORITY and the Majority is Tolerable of those around them, but not beyond the alowable deviation.

This Society has and is in many respects and areas of Society has gone beyond that allowable deviation.


36 posted on 12/15/2004 5:53:10 PM PST by 26lemoncharlie (Defending America)
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To: keat

Re: Luddite Commie B-word's bio...

He certainly has milked that town for all it was worth. Wonder why he finally decided to speak up about his lack-o-religion and/or Patriotism? I find it hard to believe that a Marching Band Booster would never be anywhere NEAR a flag, and that The Lions Club doesn't open their meetings with The Pledge or at LEAST a prayer...then there's the fact that his town has trusted him with their MONEY all these years.

Ah-Ha! Follow the money, people! Follow the money...


37 posted on 12/15/2004 5:59:10 PM PST by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: keat
It is a Protestant Christian country

Is that written down somewhere?

38 posted on 12/15/2004 6:00:46 PM PST by SnuffaBolshevik
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To: keat

Any relation to the Habecker who heads up the American Bible Society?


39 posted on 12/15/2004 6:02:52 PM PST by jwalburg (Those buried included children still clutching toys)
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To: crushelits

Why don't you just skip that part? Of wait a minute you cannot reason since the is no association of a church with the state. DA!


40 posted on 12/15/2004 6:02:57 PM PST by mad_as_he$$ (Never corner anything meaner than you. NSDQ. De Opresso Liber.)
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To: Michael.SF.

If he has been there for 12 years, he must have been "sworn in" before. When they are sworn in, don't they have to have their hand on the bible? I am not sure how that works in every instance, but that is all I can ever recall seeing.


41 posted on 12/15/2004 6:03:45 PM PST by JBCiejka
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To: crushelits

I respect the knucklehead's opinion but unfortunately he was elected to represent mine, not his.........(hypothetically speaking of course since I don't live where he does)


42 posted on 12/15/2004 6:05:22 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (I was born to be NASTY and Santa knows it.......That's why I'm at the top of the "A" list!)
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To: crushelits

The Governator is next.


43 posted on 12/15/2004 6:06:21 PM PST by semaj ("....by their fruit you will know them.")
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To: SnuffaBolshevik
Is that written down somewhere?

I read it here first.
44 posted on 12/15/2004 6:24:39 PM PST by keat
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To: crushelits

A couple of questions....

The pledge of Allegience wasn't said prior to a 'suggestion' earlier this year by another Trustee. Therefore, is it part of 'standing orders' that the pledge is said? This guy is a member of the board for 12 years, 11 of which it wasn't necessary to say the pledge. Therefore, should it be forced upon him on a 'suggestion' by another member of the board?

Just wondering.


45 posted on 12/15/2004 6:31:05 PM PST by Happygal (liberalism - a narrow tribal outlook largely founded on class prejudice)
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To: Happygal

No real American feels "forced" to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. Whether the custom has been to recite it at meetings for 1 year or 12 years, it is an HONOR to have the privilege to do so, and it is an INSULT to those who have died under that Flag to refuse to say it. It is also a RIGHT to refuse to do so, just as it is a RIGHT of the American citizens of that community to vote him out of office. Then he can exercise his opinions as a private citizen, rather than insultingly in the face of the citizens he "represents".


46 posted on 12/15/2004 6:41:18 PM PST by Bushforlife (I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: Bushforlife

But, why not allow the public to decide at the next scheduled election of board members?

This guy was elected when this wasn't a contentious issue. Right? Now they are forcing an election, because of this?


47 posted on 12/15/2004 6:50:59 PM PST by Happygal (liberalism - a narrow tribal outlook largely founded on class prejudice)
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To: crushelits

Thank God the Godless won't be given a voice!


48 posted on 12/15/2004 6:53:48 PM PST by Americalover
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To: 26lemoncharlie

Actually, constitutional principles have nothing to do with the will of the majority.


49 posted on 12/16/2004 12:20:09 AM PST by write_on61
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To: gotmatt

What a silly answer.


50 posted on 12/16/2004 12:20:56 AM PST by write_on61
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