Politician Who Won't Say Pledge Of Allegiance May Be Recalled

local6.com ^ | December 15, 2004 | local6

[crushelits]

DENVER -- A recall election is now set for an Estes Park, Colo., trustee who refuses to stand up and recite the Pledge of Allegiance during the Town Board meetings.
I have not been standing for the Pledge of Allegiance due to a conflict I have with the wording of the pledge, specifically the words 'under God,'" Councilman David Habecker said.

Habecker said it's a violation of church and state to include the words in the pledge and for that reason, he won't stand.The board began reciting the pledge before meetings earlier this year at the suggestion of Trustee Lori Jeffrey-Clark. She suggested it as a way to show respect for the country during wartime.Jeffrey-Clark said Habecker is expressing his personal views, not representing townspeople, when he sits down.

Habecker, who's served on the Town Board for 12 years, said he doesn't oppose the meaning of the pledge, and considers himself a patriot.But some other council members and residents are upset about his actions and have enough signatures to hold a recall election. That recall election will occur Tuesday, Feb. 15.All residents will vote on whether to recall David Habecker and a choice for his replacement in the event the recall passes. The recall is expected to cost a few thousand dollars."I'm sad for the community, that there is that much intolerance in our community. But if the people want to have a voice in what's going on, this is their way of doing it. And I will respect whatever the wishes of the community are," Habecker said.Estes Park, which has about 5,500 residents, is the eastern gateway to Rocky Mountain National Park about 60 miles northwest of Denver.

[JBCiejka]

If he has been there for 12 years, he must have been "sworn in" before. When they are sworn in, don't they have to have their hand on the bible? I am not sure how that works in every instance, but that is all I can ever recall seeing.

[Hot Tabasco]

I respect the knucklehead's opinion but unfortunately he was elected to represent mine, not his.........(hypothetically speaking of course since I don't live where he does)

[semaj]

The Governator is next.

[keat]

Is that written down somewhere?

I read it here first.

[Happygal]

A couple of questions....

The pledge of Allegience wasn't said prior to a 'suggestion' earlier this year by another Trustee. Therefore, is it part of 'standing orders' that the pledge is said? This guy is a member of the board for 12 years, 11 of which it wasn't necessary to say the pledge. Therefore, should it be forced upon him on a 'suggestion' by another member of the board?

Just wondering.

[Bushforlife]

No real American feels "forced" to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. Whether the custom has been to recite it at meetings for 1 year or 12 years, it is an HONOR to have the privilege to do so, and it is an INSULT to those who have died under that Flag to refuse to say it. It is also a RIGHT to refuse to do so, just as it is a RIGHT of the American citizens of that community to vote him out of office. Then he can exercise his opinions as a private citizen, rather than insultingly in the face of the citizens he "represents".

[Happygal]

But, why not allow the public to decide at the next scheduled election of board members?

This guy was elected when this wasn't a contentious issue. Right? Now they are forcing an election, because of this?

[Americalover]

Thank God the Godless won't be given a voice!

[write_on61]

Actually, constitutional principles have nothing to do with the will of the majority.

[write_on61]

What a silly answer.

[write_on61]

Very good question.

[write_on61]

Another good point.

[BigCinBigD]

How was he sworn in to office?

[Bushforlife]

The very reason that recalls are legal is so that if a sufficient proportion of his constituents are sufficiently angry at him for ANY reason, they may recall him from being their representative. If the official is convicted of a crime, for instance, his constituents may recall him even though the crime wasn't an issue when he was elected. Or if he suddenly starts espousing "loony" beliefs, especially if said beliefs are insulting to the values of the folks he represents. The fact that he didn't start proclaiming his looniness until after the most recent election shouldn't matter.

[26lemoncharlie]

"""Actually, constitutional principles have nothing to do with the will of the majority""

I feel like a 40 watt light bulb here, could you enlighten me on "Constitutional Principles" Please?

[Hat-Trick]

"But if the people want to have a voice in what's going on, this is their way of doing it. And I will respect whatever the wishes of the community are," Habecker said

How benevolent of you, Hippy Boy. Now go load your bong.

[heynowbrowncow]

The words "under God" were not part of the original pledge of allegiance; they were added in 1954 by the Knights of Columbus, a Christian group, thus turning the pledge into a prayer. There is nothing wrong with praying but it does become a problem when prayer is sanctioned and, at times, mandated by the government. The First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." The phrase is unambiguous-Congress shall make no law. Government sanctioned prayer, whether it is the Lord's Prayer or the Pledge of Allegiance and whether it is in the public square or in the confines of a 5th grade classroom, is a violation of the First Amendment. To clarify, the First Amendment prevents local governments from sanctioning and/or endorsing Muslim prayer, Jewish prayer, Wicca prayer and Christian prayer. The intent is to keep government out of the religious business and let the populace determine their religiosity. It really doesn't get any more simple than that.

How better to illustrate the absurdity of requiring someone to say the pledge than from Heller's Catch-22:

Almost overnight the Glorious Loyalty Oath Crusade was in full flower, and Captain Black was enraptured to discover himself spearheading it. He had really hit on something. All the enlisted men and officers on combat duty had to sign a loyalty oath to get their map cases from the intelligence tent, a second loyalty oath to receive their flak suits and parachutes from the parachute tent, a third loyalty oath for Lieutenant Balkington, the motor vehicle officer, to be allowed to ride from the squadron to the airfield in one of the trucks. Every time they turned around there was another loyalty oath to be signed.They signed a loyalty oath to get their pay from the finance officer, to obtain their PX supplies, to have their hair cut by the Italian barbers.

To Captain Black, every officer who supported his Glorious Loyalty Oath Crusade was a competitor, and he planned and plotted twenty-four hours a day to keep one step ahead. He would stand second to none in his devotion to country. When other officers had followed his urging and introduced loyalty oaths of their own, he went them one better by making every son of a bitch who came to his intelligence tent sign two loyalty oaths, then three, then four; then he introduced the pledge of allegiance, and after that "The Star-Spangled Banner," one chorus, two choruses, three choruses, four choruses. Each time Captain Black forged ahead of his competitors, he swung upon them scornfully for their failure to follow his example. Each time they followed his example, he retreated with concern and racked his brain for some new strategem that would enable him to turn upon them scornfully again.

Without realizing how it had come about, the combat men in the squandron discovered themselves dominated by the administrators appointed to serve them. They were bullied, insulted, harassed and shoved about all day long by one after the other. When they voiced objection, Captain Black replied that people who were loyal would not mind signing all the loyalty oaths they had to. To anyone who questioned the effectiveness of the loyalty oaths, he replied that people who really did owe allegiance to their country would be proud to pledge it as often as he forced them to. And to anyone who questioned the morality, he replied that "The Star-Spangled Banner" was the greatest piece of music ever composed. The more loyalty oaths a person signed, the more loyal he was; to Captain Black it was as simple as that, and he had Corporal Kolodny sign hundreds with his name each day so that he could always prove he was more loyal than anyone else.

"The important thing is to keep them pledging," he explained to his cohorts. "It doesn't matter whether they mean it or not. That's why they make little kids pledge allegiance even before they know what 'pledge' and 'allegiance' mean."

http://www.ofsomesignificance.com

[vpintheak]

Wel I checked out the spiffy little site and am not impressed. As to why you posted your comment to me, maybe you need to outright say why you did it. Until then, I have to believe that you have no respect for this country, the people that died to make it what it is, and no respect for the foundation of this Country--God. There is nothing wrong with a pledge of allegiance refering to the foundations of this country. While Christian religion is under attack from all fronts in this world, I will not sit idly by and let secularists, populists, and athiests just have a run of things. Don't like it? Too bad.

[heynowbrowncow]

I posted the comment to you because you said "I am really getting tired of these lunatics waving their fanaticism in my face!"

Is it fanaticism to defend the First Amendment of Constitution of the United States?

[vpintheak]

Their fanaticism is their anti-US beliefs, and yes I am getting sick of it. It gets worse all the time. Doesn't mean I don't believe int he first ammendment. Every left-wing loony out there probably doesn't know that there is more than 2 ammendments. They don't care about anything but the first 2 anyway. So listen, I don't give a crap about hurt feelings or anything else. What I care about is God, Family, and Country. Everyone has their choices to make, but I don't have to like it.