Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Mark Steyn; In praise of ‘Jesusland’
The Spectator (U.K.) ^ | 12/18/04 | Mark Steyn

Posted on 12/16/2004 6:28:43 AM PST by Pokey78

New Hampshire

As in previous years, Planned Parenthood has been selling greetings cards for abortion proponents filled with seasonal cheer to send to each other: ‘Choice On Earth’, they proclaim. I can just about understand being a proponent of abortion; I find it harder to fathom someone whose obsession with the subject extends to sending out holiday cards on the theme. Especially as, insofar as the Christmas story is relevant to this question, it’s a season to reflect on the potential of every new life.

Two thousand years ago, if a betrothed woman such as Mary became pregnant by a man other than her intended, she was guilty of adultery and liable to stoning. But Joseph, St Matthew tells us, ‘being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily’ — i.e., a quiet divorce. Given the prevailing social climate back then, had they had ‘Choice On Earth’ — abortion on demand — Jesus would have been first in line for it. There would have been no Christ, no Christmas, no New Testament, no lines about ‘peace on earth’ for abortion fetishists to riff off for their holiday slogan.

Scripturally derivative even in its repudiation thereof, ‘Choice On Earth’ seems an apt summation of the muddled state of Christendom at the dawn of its third millennium. These days we don’t say ‘Christendom’, of course, except in an ironic way. We say ‘the Muslim world’ all the time, without thinking — ‘The Iraq invasion enraged the entire Muslim world,’ declares the Democrats’ website. The notion of a ‘Muslim world’ is acceptable to the progressive mind. ‘The Christian world’ is a more problematic concept.

But it’s still out there, just about, and 2004 was a good year for Jesus. He had the big box-office smash of the past 12 months with The Passion of The Christ, scorned by Hollywood but popularised by word of mouth, or word of tongues. And, a couple of days after His man won the US election, a couple of Democrat wags, in a widely disseminated Internet cartoon, renamed a big swath of the North American continent after Him — ‘Jesusland’, stretching across the vast southern interior and pushing up along the Rockies to the 49th parallel. The godless coastal fringes, meanwhile, were joined with Her Majesty’s Northern Dominion and rechristened (if you’ll pardon the expression) the United States of Canada, a fate I wouldn’t wish even on Democrats. And, while the thought of joining their own shrivelled redoubts in a grand union with the biggest ‘blue state’ of all evidently cheers them up, they may be overestimating the blueness of the Great White North: large chunks of Alberta and the British Columbia hinterland would be happy to sign up with the Bible-thumpers, if only for the non-confiscatory tax rates. So Jesusland could well be even larger than its disparagers suggest.

Jesusland isn’t exactly Christendom: the latter evokes Rome, bishops, cathedrals, bells, incense, oratorios; the former is evangelicals, pastors, church suppers, ‘WWJD’ buttons (‘What Would Jesus Do?’), ‘Christian rock’. Some Democrats in the beleaguered fleshpots advocate accommodation with the God-fearing rednecks: for a week or so after the election, Nancy Pelosi, the Dems’ leader in the House of Representatives, was quoting Scripture in every soundbite, albeit the wimpy social-workerish bits. But most of her party has no desire to go down the straight-and-narrow, even as a rhetorical feint: the other day I found myself motoring along behind some Vermont feminist whose faded ‘I’m Pro-Choice and I Vote’ bumper sticker was now accompanied by another one demanding grumpily, ‘Instead Of Being Born Again, Why Not Grow Up?’

The Jesusland meme is so discombobulating to the secular elites of the western world that within a week it had become the prism through which they view every event in the great republic — even lousy movies. For as the Independent’s headline put it, ‘Alexander the (Not So) Great Fails To Conquer America’s Homophobes’. I don’t think you have to be a homophobe to find Alexander a stinker; its stinker status does not primarily derive from its mild gayness, so much as from Oliver Stone’s incoherent storytelling and a dull central performance by some Irish bloke whose efforts at characterisation start and end with bellowing every line. But, if the world’s media want to conjure visions of stump-toothed backwoods knuckle-draggers stomping out of the Jesusland multiplex firing off verses from Leviticus as they demand a full refund, why get in the way of their illusions? The Guardian’s Timothy Garton Ash, just back from a tour of America’s blue states, says that they’re crying out for Europe’s help: ‘Hands need to be joined across the sea in an old cause: the defence of the Enlightenment,’ he writes, and adopts as his rallying cry a subtle modification of Le Monde’s famous 12 September headline, ‘We are all blue Americans now’. Europeans need to ally with blue staters and Canadians and so forth and draw a cordon bleu, as John Kerry would say, around George W. Bush’s Jesusland, throttling it in its manger.

Well, good luck with that. I doubt whether a Euro-blue-state alliance is in any position to defend the Enlightenment. Even if one accepts that the modern Euro-Canadian secular state is the rightful heir to the Enlightenment, it would seem obvious that it’s got a lot less enlightened, at least in the sense of ‘freeing from superstition’. The ludicrous over-reaction by the elites to the US election results is at least as superstitious and irrational as anything the Bible Belt believes. And there’s nothing very rational or scientific about refusing to engage with your opponents’ arguments and instead dismissing them as mere ‘phobias’ — homophobia, Islamophobia, Chiracophobia.... Whatever else may be said about the evangelicals, they don’t sneer ‘theophobia’ whenever they’re criticised, even though in that case the lame trope may be almost plausible — when it comes to abnormal psychological fear of the unknown, blue staters’ theophobia is more pervasive than red staters’ homophobia.

A year or two back, I attended a lunch for a minister from California who was applying for a pastor’s gig at a New Hampshire Congregational church. My friend, the aptly named Faith, cut to the chase and asked the minister whether she believed the Bible was the literal truth. ‘Well,’ she said, somewhat condescendingly, ‘I believe these are useful narratives that we tell each other.’ Even if that’s so, is it helpful to give the game away? As it turned out, the minister was a lesbian who’d been joined in what she called ‘Holy Union’ with her partner back at their church in Berkeley, since when she’d become an enthusiastic marrier of gay couples across the Bay area. Proclaiming the Bible a series of ‘useful narratives’ is invariably a first step towards proclaiming many of them useless — the relevant portions of Romans, etc.

But if the Bible is merely a ‘useful narrative’, it’s an immaculately conceived one, beginning with the decision to root the divinity of Christ in the miracle of His birth. The promise of new life on earth prefigures the promise of new life in heaven. Once you cease believing in the latter, the former soon follows. Steve Sailer pointed out in the American Conservative the other week that George W. Bush won 25 of the 26 states with the highest fertility rate. On the other hand, John Kerry won the 16 states with the lowest. If I were a Democrat looking 20 years down the road, I’d be very alarmed by this trend.

But then not many Democrats do look 20 years down the road: radical secular individualism is a present-tense culture, in America as in Europe. ‘In the long run we are all dead,’ as Keynes said. There speaks a childless homosexual. Those Old Testament big begetters knew better: a celestial afterlife is something we have to take on faith, but our afterlife on earth is the children we beget and the children they in turn beget. ‘How many divisions has the Pope?’ scoffed Stalin. Demographically speaking, Jesusland has more divisions than Eutopia. Pace Timothy Garton Ash, you can’t defend the Enlightenment if you’re too enlightened to breed. Americans remain mystified about one of the landmark events of this year: the terrorist bloodbath in Madrid that changed the result of the country’s election. Why, they wonder on this side of the Atlantic, wouldn’t the Spaniards stand firm? But what’s to stand firm for? To fight for king and country is to fight for the future, and a nation with Spain’s fertility rate — 1.1 children per couple or about half ‘replacement rate’ — has no future

In that sense, the Bible, beginning with God’s injunction to go forth and multiply, is a lot more rational than the allegedly rational types at Planned Parenthood. I’m not an absolutist in these matters. I’m a red stater when it comes to God and guns, but I like European art-house movies where Juliette Binoche or Isabelle Huppert take their kit off. It’s a question of balance. And comparing Jesusland with present-tense Eutopia, it seems obvious which is more out of whack. What Timothy Garton Ash calls ‘the Enlightenment’ has degenerated under its present trustees into a doomsday cult with all the coerciveness of the old state religion and none of the eternal truths.

For example, for as long as I can remember, the pre-eminent eco-doom-monger on Canadian TV has been a chap called David Suzuki, who, in a poignant comment on the state of my country, recently made the ‘Top Ten Greatest Canadians Of All Time’ list. A while back, Suzuki wrote a column called ‘We Are All Animals Here’, beginning as follows:

‘The sign in the shopping mall said, “No animals allowed.” As I read it, I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry. It reflected a failure to admit or unwillingness to acknowledge our biological nature. We are animals and have a taxonomic classification: Kingdom: Animalia; Phylum: Chordata; Class: Mammalia; Order: Primates; Family: Hominidae; Genus: Homo; Species: sapiens.

‘Our reluctance to acknowledge our animal nature is indicated in our attitude to other animals. If we call someone a worm, snake, pig, chicken, mule or ape, it is an insult. Indeed, to accuse someone of being a “wild animal” at a party is a terrible insult.’

But apparently not at his pad; Suzuki, even at a sober wine-and-cheese do, is literally a party animal. This kind of standard ecoblather certainly has animal qualities if only in the sense that it’s barking. Everyone knows what the sign in the mall means. It may be distressing to Suzuki, but the world we live in is defined not by what we have in common with worms, snakes and pigs, but by what separates us. For the purposes of comparison, consider the Eighth Psalm:

‘What is man, that thou art mindful of him...? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. Thou hast made him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea.’

Now you can say that’s a lot of Judaeo-Christian hooey. But the Psalmist, regardless of whether he got it from God or winged it off the top of his head, has characterised the reality of our existence better than the environmentalists and scientists. The Eighth Psalm describes the central fact of our world — our dominion over the sheep and oxen, yea, and all the party animals. It was a lot less plausible when it was written, when man’s domain stretched barely to the horizon, when ravenous beasts lurked in the undergrowth, when the oceans were uncharted and the maps dribbled away with the words ‘Here be dragons...’. But, over the millennia, the Eighth Psalm has held up, which is more than you can say for the average 1970s bestseller predicting the oil would run out by 1998 and the Maldives would be obliterated by global warming.

It’s easy, in an otherwise wholly secular West, to mock the religiosity of Jesusland. But if eternal salvation remains unproved, the suspension of disbelief required of Eutopian secularists grows daily. If you were one of those ‘redneck Christian fundamentalists’ the world’s media are always warning about, you might think the Continent’s in for what looks awfully like the Four Horsemen of the Euro-Apocalypse: Famine — the end of the lavishly funded statist good times; Death — the self-extinction of European races too selfish to breed; War — the decline into bloody civil unrest that these economic and demographic factors will bring; and Conquest — the recolonisation of Europe by Islam.

But it goes without saying that Europeans are far too rational and enlightened to believe in such outmoded notions as apocalyptic equestrians. If there is ‘choice on earth’, I’ll bet on Jesusland. Happy holidays.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bushcountry; bushvictory; homerun; jesusland; marksteyn; praise
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-160 next last

1 posted on 12/16/2004 6:28:43 AM PST by Pokey78
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Pokey78

For later reading; looks great. I love Steyn.


2 posted on 12/16/2004 6:29:30 AM PST by Republicanprofessor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Howlin; riley1992; Miss Marple; deport; Dane; sinkspur; steve; kattracks; JohnHuang2; ...

3 posted on 12/16/2004 6:30:17 AM PST by Pokey78 (11/02/04: The death of Zogby's "sterling" reputation.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
I’m a red stater when it comes to God and guns, but I like European art-house movies where Juliette Binoche or Isabelle Huppert take their kit off.

I hereby grant Mark Steyn honorary REPUBLICAN PARTY REPTILE membership. :^)

4 posted on 12/16/2004 6:34:35 AM PST by TheBigB (Smartass remarks $5.00...with extra pithiness $2.00 more!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78

Steyn is fearfully and wonderfully made. Bump.


5 posted on 12/16/2004 6:35:52 AM PST by Taliesan (The power of the State to do good is the power of the State to do evil.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Republicanprofessor
If you were one of those ‘redneck Christian fundamentalists’ the world’s media are always warning about, you might think the Continent’s in for what looks awfully like the Four Horsemen of the Euro-Apocalypse: Famine — the end of the lavishly funded statist good times; Death — the self-extinction of European races too selfish to breed; War — the decline into bloody civil unrest that these economic and demographic factors will bring; and Conquest — the recolonisation of Europe by Islam.

But it goes without saying that Europeans are far too rational and enlightened to believe in such outmoded notions as apocalyptic equestrians. If there is ‘choice on earth’, I’ll bet on Jesusland.

This was too good to read only once.

6 posted on 12/16/2004 6:37:11 AM PST by Taliesan (The power of the State to do good is the power of the State to do evil.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78

The Great Man speaks! I just love Mark Steyn.


7 posted on 12/16/2004 6:38:50 AM PST by Tax-chick (Jesus is the reason for the seaon which begins at sundown on December 24.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78

"The ludicrous over-reaction by the elites to the US election results is at least as superstitious and irrational as anything the Bible Belt believes."


Perfect.


8 posted on 12/16/2004 6:43:46 AM PST by FeliciaCat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78

This one is above even Mr. Steyn's usual high standards.


9 posted on 12/16/2004 6:44:47 AM PST by metesky ("Brethren, leave us go amongst them." Rev. Capt. Samuel Johnston Clayton - Ward Bond- The Searchers)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78

Thanks for the ping, Pokey!


10 posted on 12/16/2004 6:45:15 AM PST by secret garden (Faith is not believing that God can. It is knowing that God will.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: BibChr

pingomai


11 posted on 12/16/2004 6:45:47 AM PST by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
Even if one accepts that the modern Euro-Canadian secular state is the rightful heir to the Enlightenment, it would seem obvious that it’s got a lot less enlightened, at least in the sense of ‘freeing from superstition’. The ludicrous over-reaction by the elites to the US election results is at least as superstitious and irrational as anything the Bible Belt believes.

Amen, Brother!

12 posted on 12/16/2004 6:47:32 AM PST by Vision Thing
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
I’m a red stater when it comes to God and guns, but I like European art-house movies where Juliette Binoche or Isabelle Huppert take their kit off.

This man speaks for me.

13 posted on 12/16/2004 6:48:02 AM PST by NeoCaveman (There is no dufu but DUFU and PJ Comix is its writer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78

Thanks for this, Pokey.
I sure missed Steyn!

Merry Christmas,

Cheers
Jim


14 posted on 12/16/2004 6:49:14 AM PST by gymbeau (This space would have been left blank if I hadn't put something into it)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78

bump for later reading


15 posted on 12/16/2004 6:49:17 AM PST by ConservativeBamaFan (We know too much, and are convinced of too little. -T.S. Elliot (for some, it's just the opposite!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
Oh, thank you, Pokey! And just in time for Christmas! What a wonderful column!

Merry Christmas!

16 posted on 12/16/2004 6:52:52 AM PST by Miss Marple
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78

GOOD STUFF BUMP.


17 posted on 12/16/2004 6:52:57 AM PST by I'm ALL Right! (Welcome to my addiction.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78

Excellence as usual. My one recommendation, change United States of Canada to Union of Canadian Socialist Republics.


18 posted on 12/16/2004 6:54:11 AM PST by PfromHoGro (The W knows.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78

BTTT.


19 posted on 12/16/2004 6:59:42 AM PST by Cultural Jihad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78

I love Mark, even though he abandoned our cause up here.


20 posted on 12/16/2004 7:02:53 AM PST by Ashamed Canadian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
The godless coastal fringes, meanwhile, were joined with Her Majesty’s Northern Dominion and rechristened (if you’ll pardon the expression) the United States of Canada, a fate I wouldn’t wish even on Democrats.

Brutal.

21 posted on 12/16/2004 7:04:03 AM PST by You Dirty Rats
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78

Holy moly, what a column. He's outdone himself with this one.


22 posted on 12/16/2004 7:04:23 AM PST by prairiebreeze (It's my right to publically celebrate Christmas and state my faith in Christ. At least for now.....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78

Thanks Poke mon! There are so many gems in this that it would take me all morning to highlight each one. Steyn at his best!


23 posted on 12/16/2004 7:05:07 AM PST by 1john2 3and4
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
Thanks.

Brilliant, Mr. Steyn, as usual.

24 posted on 12/16/2004 7:05:34 AM PST by Lurking in Kansas (;&ôŔžUńj/ČëžŐ “ ’· ....If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78

BTTT


25 posted on 12/16/2004 7:07:33 AM PST by knews_hound (Out of the NIC ,into the Router, out to the Cloud....Nothing but 'Net)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78

Do the euros even bother to read Styne? Do they understand what he's trying to tell them?


26 posted on 12/16/2004 7:10:11 AM PST by McGavin999 (George Soros just learned a very expensive lesson-America can't be bought.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78

Wow, one Steyn gem after another.


27 posted on 12/16/2004 7:11:45 AM PST by The Electrician
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78

This man is the best columnist, bar none, on the scene today. Why he is not syndicated in every major newspaper is proof positive of their liberal blinders. If a lefty had one-tenth the wit and insight as Steyn, he'd be splashed accross every papers editorial section 3 times a week.


28 posted on 12/16/2004 7:12:56 AM PST by pissant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

For a later read


29 posted on 12/16/2004 7:13:04 AM PST by Mo1 (Should be called Oil for Fraud and not Oil for Food)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Elsie; AndrewC; jennyp; lockeliberty; RadioAstronomer; LiteKeeper; Fester Chugabrew; ...
Ping!

I here these overtures from the evolutionists on this forum. You know who you are.

"But, if the world’s media want to conjure visions of stump-toothed backwoods knuckle-draggers stomping out of the Jesusland multiplex firing off verses from Leviticus as they demand a full refund, why get in the way of their illusions? The Guardian’s Timothy Garton Ash, just back from a tour of America’s blue states, says that they’re crying out for Europe’s help: ‘Hands need to be joined across the sea in an old cause: the defence of the Enlightenment,’ he writes,..." (emphasis added)

Steyn is brilliant as always!

30 posted on 12/16/2004 7:15:03 AM PST by bondserv (Alignment is critical! † [Check out my profile page])
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
"I doubt whether a Euro-blue-state alliance is in any position to defend the Enlightenment.

"You can’t defend the Enlightenment if you’re too enlightened to breed"

...or too enlightened to save yourself from Apocalypse and certain destruction.
"Why, they wonder on this side of the Atlantic, wouldn’t the Spaniards stand firm?"
Yes. Can't they understand that they are inviting the re-conquest of Spain?
"But what’s to stand firm for? To fight for king and country is to fight for the future, and a nation with Spain’s fertility rate — 1.1 children per couple or about half ‘replacement rate’ — has no future."
Yes. And nations "too enlightened" to defend and protect themselves also have no future.
"What" contemporary Western Leftists call "‘the Enlightenment’ has degenerated under its present trustees into a doomsday cult with all the coerciveness of the old state religion and none of the eternal truths."
Yes. And whereas Leftists of Europe, America, and the rest of the West are determined to commit suicide, finding nothing in Christianity, religion, or Western Civilization worth preserving--let alond defending--the American Heartland ("Jesusland") is determined to survive, to prevail, and to ascend--and at the core of this self-confidence is the knowledge of God and a commitment to His eternal truths.
"‘How many divisions has the Pope?’ scoffed Stalin."
Yes. The Pope is still going strong. Where are Stalin and his empire?
31 posted on 12/16/2004 7:18:25 AM PST by Savage Beast (This is the choice: confrontation or capitulation. Appeasement is capitulation.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
Thanks Pokey. No quidnuncus excerptus.

FMCDH(BITS)

32 posted on 12/16/2004 7:24:09 AM PST by nothingnew (Kerry is gone...perhaps to Lake Woebegone)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78

I love Mark Steyn!!!


33 posted on 12/16/2004 7:31:07 AM PST by shield (The Greatest Scientific Discoveries of the Century Reveal God!!!! by Dr. H. Ross, Astrophysicist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78

Bump for later read...


34 posted on 12/16/2004 7:34:30 AM PST by eureka! (It will not be safe to vote Democrat for a long, long, time...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bondserv
I here these overtures from the evolutionists on this forum. You know who you are.

They might theorize who they are but these days they are heavily into denial.

35 posted on 12/16/2004 7:35:51 AM PST by Dataman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78

Bump for later.


36 posted on 12/16/2004 7:35:54 AM PST by jokar (On line data base http://www.trackingthethreat.com/db/index.htm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78

I can't recall a better article written by Steyn. And that's saying a lot!


37 posted on 12/16/2004 7:37:36 AM PST by bowzer313
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78; quidnunc

Thanks for posting the whole essay, Pokey. Very good.

Quidnunc, while many ask Pokey and others (—and you) to post Steyn in whole, I've yet to see anyone asking him to do it your way, or thanking you for refusing to post Steyn complete. Would you please post the whole essays, as Pokey does? Or just FRemail him, and if he's willing let him post it the way most FReepers seem to prefer it?

Dan


38 posted on 12/16/2004 7:40:51 AM PST by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
I love Mark Steyn!

Can you add me to your ping list Pokey?
39 posted on 12/16/2004 7:43:42 AM PST by ndkos
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78

A question to ask everyone who demands all abortions be allowed:

Do you wish your mother had aborted you?


40 posted on 12/16/2004 7:44:05 AM PST by LoneSome Journey
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78

There is something...obscene...about those cards.


41 posted on 12/16/2004 7:45:37 AM PST by wildbill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
Thanks Pokey! So much in there I think excerpting would be wasted.

He's Back!

A Mark Steyn Bump-to-the-Top!!!!

42 posted on 12/16/2004 7:46:12 AM PST by Rummyfan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: LoneSome Journey

I bet a lot of abortion supporters would say "Yes". Sad, but I think a lot of it is self hate.


43 posted on 12/16/2004 7:48:32 AM PST by Jack Black
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
Mark Steyn is half-right and half-wrong. He's right to point out that Mary would have been sanctioned for bearing *someone else's child* other than Joseph's. Too many people turn this aspect of the Gospel into a sermon about unwed mothers, which Mary definitely was *not.*

However, the Jews under Roman occupation weren't stoning anyone, as the Romans forbade them to capitally punish anyone on their own. Capital offenses had to go through the Roman courts, and it's doubtful that the Romans would have recognized Jewish adultery as a crime. (There were two kinds of marriages in imperial Rome - those sealed by the Roman courts, and common law marriages, i.e. everything else. Jews didn't go before the Roman courts to marry.)

Had Joseph exercised his rights under Jewish custom, Mary would have indeed had a terrible life - banished from her family and community; probably forced into a life of prostitution or worse. But not put to death by stoning.

44 posted on 12/16/2004 7:48:58 AM PST by valkyrieanne (card-carrying South Park Republican)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
Steyn:And, while the thought of joining their own shrivelled redoubts in a grand union with the biggest ‘blue state’ of all evidently cheers them up, they may be overestimating the blueness of the Great White North: large chunks of Alberta and the British Columbia hinterland would be happy to sign up with the Bible-thumpers, if only for the non-confiscatory tax rates. So Jesusland could well be even larger than its disparagers suggest.

Can we have them as states? Can we? Can we? Especially the parts with the sand tar oil pits? We could also use four more Republican senators and 4-6 more Republican Congressmen.

45 posted on 12/16/2004 7:54:22 AM PST by valkyrieanne (card-carrying South Park Republican)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
Great column. Thanks for the ping, Pokey.
46 posted on 12/16/2004 7:54:32 AM PST by Max Combined (Clinton is "the notorious Oval Office onanist")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Ashamed Canadian
"I love Mark, even though he abandoned our cause up here."

There is a highway running south.

47 posted on 12/16/2004 8:00:42 AM PST by TexasCowboy (Texan by birth, citizen of Jesusland by the Grace of God)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: bondserv

Thanks for the ping!


48 posted on 12/16/2004 8:05:33 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: bondserv
I here these overtures from the evolutionists on this forum.

Let us hope you hear them as well as here them. Creationists are an embarrassment to conservatism precisely because they are evidence that the knuckle-draggin' gap-toothed slope-browed mean and dumb stereotypes are true. Worse, creationism seeks to hijack conservatism into an absolutely unwinnable war against the universe, its workings and history, and all the vast evidence related thereto. Sane conservatives must not allow this to happen.

I never cringe more than when Steyn rails at evolutionist and militant atheist Dawkins. I'm embarrassed for both of them. Steyn tends to be right on the money in matters of culture and politics but apparently, from a few things he's said, has been misled on science. Dawkins is his perfect inverse, a fine grasp of science but out of his depth in a mud puddle at much of anything else. Each should stick to his area of competence, but free speech means freedom to be not only wrong but loudly wrong.

49 posted on 12/16/2004 8:06:48 AM PST by VadeRetro (Nothing means anything when you go to Hell for knowing what things mean.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: valkyrieanne
However, the Jews under Roman occupation weren't stoning anyone, as the Romans forbade them to capitally punish anyone on their own

Yet there are instances in the Gospels where they indeed take up stones to kill. I recall one instance, against Jesus Himself, and another against the woman caught in adultery. You're right that it was not officially sanctioned, but I doubt whether the Romans really cared very much if a Jewish person happened to be unoffically offed in such a way.

Cordially,

50 posted on 12/16/2004 8:08:10 AM PST by Diamond
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-160 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson