State approves bid for I-35 toll alternative (hmmm, I wonder...)

Austin American Statesman ^ | Dec. 17, 2004 | Ben Wear

[TXnMA]

For info on the Trans Texas Corridor, see: Corridor Watch

Would you believe 4,000 miles of 1/4 mile- wide rights-of-way containing

• Six 12-foot Passenger Vehicle Lanes (80mph); 112-feet in aggregate width with shoulders.
• Four 13-foot Truck Lanes; 84-feet in aggregate width with shoulders.
• Two Tracks for 200mph High-Speed Passenger Rail. (All depots are contained within the corridor.)
• Two Tracks for 80mph Commuter Passenger Rail.
• Two Tracks for 80mph Freight Rail.
• A 200-foot Utility Zone for large underground water lines, natural gas and petroleum pipelines, telecommunication cables and overhead high-voltage electric transmission lines.
• Operational Maintenance Zone.
• Safety Zones sufficient to accommodate future roadway expansion.

That's a roughly 1,000 square mile land grab...

(Thanx for the ping, BobL...)

[Xenalyte]

Be nice if the headline told us which state.

[Ben Ficklin]

Are you saying that they plan to eventually remove I 35?

[BobL]

"I certainly wouldn't invest any of my money in such a project. Most of the tollways around urban areas such as Dallas, Houston and Atlanta seem to make more sense economically (although the Hardy toll road would make more sense if it actually went anywhere)."

Exactly - the key is to have a monopoly or a captive audience if you want to make money in this business. If you don't have one or the other, you will lose your shirt. In this case, the company doesn't appear to have either - which is why it would be a really good idea for people to review exactly what our Governor is committing this state to (maybe a guaranteed return on investment - who knows?)

[Diddle E. Squat]

The starter of this thread is completely misleading on this issue, as was exposed in this thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1299709/posts

Forced to adjust his tune several times as one lie after another was exposed by numerous posters.

The bottom line is that this freeway corridor is crowded, with nearly 250,000 more residents added EACH YEAR! Additionally this is the primary corridor for freight coming out of Mexico into the US. Yes the demand is there, ask anyone who has to travel I-35 any weekend, or commute it in San Antonio, Austin, Ft. Worth, and Dallas. The 85 mph speed limit will be a big draw, and by tolling this will be built years before TXDOT could afford to do it. The reason for that is the company can borrow against the long-term future revenue stream, quickly raising capital better than the traditional bonding process. And its a user fee, so you only pay for it if you choose to use it. Far closer to capitalism and conservatism than forcing everyone to pay for roads they may never use by exacting increased taxes without choice.

[BobL]

"Be nice if the headline told us which state."

Sorry, I got hit once for re-writing a headline (breach of FP protocol), so I'm a bit reluctant. But I could have put that info in parantheses somewhere. I'll me sure to sneak in next time.

[TXnMA]

The TTC wil consume ~1000 square miles of land.

To put that into perspective, the land area of the entire State of Rhode Island is 1,045 square miles...

[Diddle E. Squat]

although the Hardy toll road would make more sense if it actually went anywhere

Perspective, I guess. I use the Hardy Toll Road nearly every time I go down to Houston, since more often than not I'm hearing traffic reports of an accident on I-45, and it flows far better even during rush hour. BTW, the tollway authority is about to start construction to extend it from I-610 to downtown, which will further increase its utility. Should be done within 5 years.

[Diddle E. Squat]

That's also just a conceptual vision plan for the next 50 YEARS. Most of those roads won't be constructed, nor land purchased, nor even studied for several more decades.

[sinkspur]

Thanks for exposing this fraud.

[TXnMA]

"Be nice if the headline told us which state."

This is a perennial FR problem. The "right" way to fix it would be to add a "State" field to the "Post Article" form.

However, that could involve adding a new field into an already-running database with lots of archived records -- not something I could advocate doing...

(John, is it even worth asking?...)

[BobL]

". Far closer to capitalism and conservatism than forcing everyone to pay for roads they may never use by exacting increased taxes without choice."

I can take it. I have thick skin. This gentleman obviously is either an insider or has plenty of money to burn. I meet neither of those criteria.

I would like to say that I did effectively rebut every attack on that thread. Let's also get past the capitalism / free market lines. As I said earlier, only when a company, like Flour, can find a need, take a map, draw a straight line from Point A to Point B, clear everything in its path, and then lay concrete, will you have the free market that you dream of. That's what Southwest Airlines did in a true free market. I'm waiting for you to tell me how that's done with surface transportation. The bottom line is that surface transportation will NEVER be free market. So let's move on.

What has the people upset on this thread is that the governor is committing the taxpayers of this state to a $7.2 Billion contract and I challenge anyone to produce a study showing how this project will make any money when side-by-side with a freeway. I'd also like you (or anyone) to post a copy of the following documents:

1) The Request for Proposal
2) The Proposal received and tentatively approved
3) The final contract (hopefully prior to signing)

I can PROMISE you that there will be protections of some kind for this company in those words - or they will not invest $7.2 Billion of their own money - the congestion may be bad, but it's not that bad. That is why the people on this thread can see though your defense of the governor and know they are about to get the shaft.

[BobL]

"Thanks for exposing this fraud."

I guess that I wrote the article, and then I wrote the TTC plan, particularly where it says that Texas whats to buy Interstates to start tolling them (Page 16, first bullet).

I guess that I was behind the plan to put up toll booths on I-10 near El Paso, and toll booths on the existing SH-249 freeway northwest of Houston. (both later killed, but the attempt was certainly there)

You do have to have a lot of imagination to believe that this governor is not leading to a toll-road only state. Unfortunately, I don't.

[TXnMA]

Thanks for exposing this fraud.

Mr. GovShill, when you can refute the objections to Perry's wet dream raised here, you might be worthy of coming back here and calling another FReeper a "fraud"...

[sinkspur]

No thanks. You guys are hysterics.

That's another kind of "wet."

[BobL]

Let's go one step further. Let's say I-35 does remain a functional freeway. I want to know why on earth any NAFTA truck would ever pay 50 cents or more per mile to drive on the toll road - when the driver is lucky to make that much in the first place. I can think of 2 options:

1) I-35 is impassable either due to neglect or traffic
2) I-35 has its own tolls

Either way that drivers either lose.

[TXnMA]

Most of those roads won't be constructed, nor land purchased, nor even studied for several more decades.

If the people of Texas have anything to say about it, the whole TTC concept will be s***-canned as soon as we can dump the RINO who now squats in our Governor's office.

[TXnMA]

"When our hair is gray, we will be able to tell our grandchildren that we were in a Texas Department of Transportation meeting room when one of the most extraordinary dumb@$$ plans was laid out for the people of Texas,"... RINO Perry

[bayourod]

"Be nice if the headline told us which state."

Don't embarrass yourself by letting it slip that you aren't from Texas.

[TXnMA]

That ain't embarassin' -- it's plumb mortifyin'! '-)