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War Unwinnable In Face Of Renewed German Offensive
Transterrestrial Musings ^ | December 17th, 2004 | Rand Simberg

Posted on 12/17/2004 6:50:17 AM PST by NonZeroSum

December 17th, 1944

PARIS (Routers) Long-time critics of the Roosevelt administration declared themselves vindicated today, as the Germans began a renewed offensive yesterday in the Ardennes Forest in Belgium, opening a huge hole in the "Allied" lines and throwing back troops for miles, with previously unimaginable US casualties.

Early yesterday morning, eight German armored divisions and thirteen German infantry divisions launched an all-out attack on five divisions of the United States 1st Army. Hundreds of heavy guns, howitzers and multiple-rocket launchers were fired on American positions.

The 5th and 6th Panzer armies, consisting of some eleven divisions, broke through the Loshein Gap against the American divisions protecting the region. The 6th Panzer Army then headed north while the Fifth Panzer Army went south. The latter army attacked the U. S. VIII Corps some 100 miles to the south, which was quickly surrounded, resulting in mass surrenders of unprepared American soldiers. By any reasonable and objective standard, it was an utter military disaster for the "Allied" forces.

It all came as a complete shock to the Roosevelt administration who, rumor has it, had been informed by the head of OSS that the imminent collapse of the German army was a "lead-pipe cinch." This only confirmed reasonable pre-election suspicions that the administration and General Eisenhower were operating on flawed intelligence, and led the nation into an invasion of Europe on clearly false pretenses.

This new setback came amidst continuing problems with the new government in France, installed by the "Allies." Many consider it a puppet, lacking legitimacy, and it has proven itself inept. The situation is chaotic, and "President" De Gaulle has shown himself to be unable to control food riots, or prevent the commission of massacres of former regime loyalists and the German troops who had supported the overthrown legitimate Vichy government. Though elections are promised sometime in the future, there is widespread doubt, given the infighting between FRLs, communists, and Gaullists, that peaceful and orderly elections can be held any time soon or that civil war can be prevented.

Many have pointed out that the troop strength on the continent has been inadequate since the invasion at Normandy last June, and that this only confirmed that. In addition, they say, it didn't help that, due to incompetence at the highest levels, up to the newly installed Secretary of War Hull, many troops died as a result of our own bombs.

"They ignored our warnings about getting embroiled in a quagmire here, and this campaign has been a disaster, from the hundreds killed in training, to the thousands who died on the beaches in France," said an anonymous State Department source. He continued, "We've also shamed ourselves before the world with our reckless policies and atrocities." In the wake of all this, some, off the record, are suggesting that it's time to consider impeachment of the recently reelected president.

Back in Washington, despite lofty rhetoric from the White House about the "liberation" of Europe, many had always been skeptical about the prospects for defeating Germany. As they correctly point out, the Germans are after all defending their homeland, and no matter how bad the alleged depravations of the Nazi regime, all familiar with the German character know that they can be depended on to fight to the death against any foreign invader, no matter how well intentioned. Many of the German dead or captured for the past few weeks have been adolescents, some only fourteen or fifteen years old, with dead, untrained yet willing hands clinging to their rifles. Seeing such images of dedication to the cause, it's difficult for many to believe that victory is possible.

As a result, the new setback has renewed rumbling among some that the time has come to seek an accord with the Nazi regime that could allow a withdrawal from Europe with honor, and not lose any more American troops in a hopeless cause, let alone bog them down for an unforeseeable period of time. "It was Japan that attacked us, not Germany," pointed out a Senate staffer. "We need to focus our resources on the true enemy in the Pacific."


Some staffers on Capitol Hill implied that the timing itself of the offensive was suspicious. "Hitler wanted Roosevelt to be reelected, so that he could continue to fight a war against a sick, senile incompetent. Had he started this offensive before the election back on November 7th, everyone would have seen what a disaster this president has been on foreign policy, and Hitler would have had to confront a young, vibrant Tom Dewey."

Others, representing moderate Democrats, seemed resigned. "We're stuck with a stubborn megalomaniac who's eventually going to have us at war with the rest of the world. How long will our Russian allies put up with this kind of behavior? How can we found or host a 'United Nations' when we ourselves are the author of so much aggression?"


(Copyright 2004, by Rand Simberg)


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Political Humor/Cartoons
KEYWORDS: battleofthebulge; enemywithin; handwringers; impeach; iraq; leftistmedia; oif; quagmire; roosevelt
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To: sheltonmac

We lost three times as many in a day in December 1944 than we have in three years in Iraq.


21 posted on 12/17/2004 7:34:27 AM PST by gridlock (ELIMINATE PERVERSE INCENTIVES)
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To: snippy_about_it
I mention this whenever I see one of these interesting what might have been threads. CBS News anchor Charles Osgood has written a memoir about growing up in Baltimore during WWII. In a book talk at a B & N in Baltimore, seen on CSPAN, he was asked how coverage of the war in Iraq was different from WWII. He responded that if the press had covered WWII the way it covered Vietnam and Iraq, WWII would have been far far more difficult to win. His tone was NOT one of approval of today's media.

He backed his claim with some facts about coverage. For instance it was not until Summer '43 that any photo of American dead was seen by the public. Censorship was practiced, but mostly it was self censorship by reporters who put the war effort ahead of their careers or politics. Facts such as the clear technical superiority of German armor were never reported in the press. And clear blunders of leadership were overlooked.

This from a CBS fixture of three decades.

22 posted on 12/17/2004 7:35:35 AM PST by xkaydet65
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To: NonZeroSum

yeah, except nobody said the germans would welcome us.


23 posted on 12/17/2004 7:35:55 AM PST by notigar
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To: longtermmemmory
How about the fact that we DID NOT HAVE THE BEST PLANES at the start of the war? ....

Are you saying that we went to war with the Army we had, and not the one we wnated? Shocking...complety shocking!!!

24 posted on 12/17/2004 7:38:23 AM PST by Turbo Pig (...to close with and destroy the enemy...)
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To: sheltonmac
Did we lose more American soldiers after the war with Germany ended?

Yes.
25 posted on 12/17/2004 7:38:51 AM PST by Beckwith (John, you said I was going to be the First Lady, as of now, you're on the couch . . .)
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To: sheltonmac

Your intended implication is what? That the war on terror has ended?


26 posted on 12/17/2004 7:41:28 AM PST by Mr. Lucky
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To: 2banana
"We'll win this war, but we'll win it only by fighting and by showing the Germans that we've got more guts than they have; or ever will have. We're not going to just shoot the sons-of-b*tches, we're going to rip out their living Godd*mned guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy Hun c*cksuckers by the bushel-f*cking-basket. War is a bloody, killing business. You've got to spill their blood, or they will spill yours. Rip them up the belly. Shoot them in the guts. When shells are hitting all around you and you wipe the dirt off your face and realize that instead of dirt it's the blood and guts of what once was your best friend beside you, you'll know what to do!" -- George S. Patton

I LOVE that quote!! We really could use someing like him today against terrorists. The PC bullsh!t is costing our troops. The terrorists only reespect force. If the terrorists destroy one building, a city in an islamic state goes. If they destroy a city here, than we nuke the whole middle east.

27 posted on 12/17/2004 7:46:51 AM PST by Paul_Denton
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To: sheltonmac
Let's see. December 17th, 1944... That was before the end of "major combat operations" in Europe, right? Before the military declared, "Mission accomplished"? Did we lose more American soldiers after the war with Germany ended?

Yes. There were Germans who were doing the same things (except maybie suicide bombing) that Baathists are doing now. Fanatics that just do not accept the fact that they were defeated.

28 posted on 12/17/2004 7:50:29 AM PST by Paul_Denton
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To: NonZeroSum
"The FDR Administration is also trying to explain why American forces do not have the best armor protection possible on all vehicles after three years have passed since Pearl Harbor.

American Sherman tanks are so lightly armored that they have an unpleasant tendency to burst into flames when hit: in dark humour it is sometimes called a ‘Ronson’ (after the cigarette lighter) by its crews or ‘Tommy cooker’ by the Germans.

As every smoker in Europe knows, the Ronson lighter 'Lights the First Time, Every Time'. "


29 posted on 12/17/2004 7:50:35 AM PST by Polybius
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To: sheltonmac
Actually, from what I have read in old newspapers and magazines from that time, we were taking casualties from attacks by former soldier and civilians in Germany into the 1950's.

Same thing with Japanese soldiers in the Pacific theater. Many soldiers wouldn't believe that the war could possibly be over and kept fighting.

From the mouth of my cousin who has been stationed in Iraq and came home last month - the VAST majority of the Iraqis (90%+) are glad we are there and are looking forward to the elections. They are mad that Iran and Syria are sending in fighters. He brought home gifts from grateful Iraqis and still corresponds with some he became friends with.

If you don't count the deaths caused by accidents, the number of post major operations casualties drops by about 20%. It is actually pretty comparable to post-WWII casualties...

BTW, there was one article I remember from 1945 that was talking about AWOL soldiers in Europe. They estimated that between 6000 and 10,000 soldiers were AWOL two months after VE day. Guess they didn't support the war effort, eh?

It is pretty obvious that the press can make a war popular or not. In this time, with this war, they have decided to talk it down at every opportunity. If you had a speck of sense you would look at the situation objectively, compare it to other historical conflicts, gain some perspective, and THEN form an opinion.
30 posted on 12/17/2004 7:51:09 AM PST by Crusher138 (Support capitalism. Check out www.USAPoliTees.com)
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To: NonZeroSum

This is satire and not a genuine article from 1944 given the 2004 copyright date?


31 posted on 12/17/2004 7:53:39 AM PST by PresbyRev
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To: Yasotay
Patton was relieved and sent to a 'doghouse' for slapping two soldiers.

Patton slapped two men who had been in battle. That didn't sit well with the front-line troops who considered him a tyranical prima-donna REMF.

32 posted on 12/17/2004 7:56:30 AM PST by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: NonZeroSum

The real problem wasn't the War; it was that Roosevelt entered the War with no plan to win the peace.


33 posted on 12/17/2004 7:58:48 AM PST by You Dirty Rats
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To: PresbyRev

Yes, it is satire.


34 posted on 12/17/2004 8:00:50 AM PST by NonZeroSum
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To: sheltonmac
That was before the end of "major combat operations" in Europe, right? Before the military declared, "Mission accomplished"?

The current mission was accomplished (ousting Saddam), and a new one was taken up (rebuilding Iraq). Keeping the WWII motif, bi***ing about the Mission Accomplished episode is like bi***ing about saying the mission was accomplished in taking Tarawa, or North Africa, or any other number of smaller missions that made up the whole of WWII

35 posted on 12/17/2004 8:08:02 AM PST by Turbo Pig (...to close with and destroy the enemy...)
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To: snippy_about_it

Funny and sad at the same time.


36 posted on 12/17/2004 8:20:44 AM PST by Professional Engineer (Preview. Post. Repeat.)
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To: NonZeroSum

YOU SCARED ME FOR A SECOND !!!


37 posted on 12/17/2004 8:33:27 AM PST by PetroniDE (Profile of Winners: Red Sox, Patriots, President Bush, Free Republic)
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To: NonZeroSum

If Germany ever decides to invade France again, we tell the French "start learning German" .....


38 posted on 12/17/2004 8:35:22 AM PST by PetroniDE (Profile of Winners: Red Sox, Patriots, President Bush, Free Republic)
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To: sheltonmac

Go back to your hole you anti-war wussy.


39 posted on 12/17/2004 8:38:01 AM PST by ohioman
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To: Valin

We can certainly blame Harry for some of the social ills we still have today!


40 posted on 12/17/2004 8:38:25 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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