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Family files claim for morning-after pill
Billings Gazette ^ | 12/17/2004 | Associated Press

Posted on 12/18/2004 2:53:34 PM PST by Lib Buster

WORLAND (AP) -- The family of a teenage girl who was allegedly given emergency contraception pills under the supervision of a school counselor has filed a claim against Washakie County School District No. 1.

The claim included a dollar amount, but the family's attorney, Larry Berryman, declined to reveal it, the Northern Wyoming Daily News reports.

Berryman said in a prepared statement that the Worland High School student, 15, confided in the ninth-grade counselor that she had sex with a 23-year-old and was afraid of being pregnant.

The counselor made an appointment with the public health office in Worland and took the girl to the office during class time in her own vehicle.

The public health nurse dispensed the prescription-only, "morning-after" pills. "She was returned to the school with the statement by the counselor that what had happened was their secret and they did not have to tell her parents," Berryman said.

"This was done without the knowledge or permission of the parents."

Berryman said he mailed the claim to the state Dec. 10 and the claim was delivered to both the school district and county offices on Monday.

Superintendent Mike Hejtmanek directed questions Thursday to the district's attorney, Bill Shelledy, who declined to comment besides acknowledging that the district had received the claim.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: Wyoming
KEYWORDS: abortion; attorney; berryman; child; contraception; counselor; dispense; hejtmanek; illegal; infanticide; juvenile; minor; morningafter; nurse; parentalrights; prescription; prolife; rape; school; schooldistrict; schools; shelledy; statutory; student; teens; washakie; worland; wy; wyoming
They're not our children anymore. They belong to Hilary's village idiots!
1 posted on 12/18/2004 2:53:35 PM PST by Lib Buster
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To: Lib Buster

Maybe I am wrong, but I think if this 15 year old confided in this nurse that she had slept with a 23 year old, the nurse would be required to report that to the authorities, since it is statutory rape.

If that's the case, the nurse belongs in lockup, along with this 23 year old.


2 posted on 12/18/2004 2:57:00 PM PST by exnavychick (Just my two cents, as usual.)
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To: Lib Buster
I guess, since I don't have any children, all I can say is parents, take back control of your families. This should never have happened.
3 posted on 12/18/2004 2:57:26 PM PST by marmar (Faith is a beautiful thing.....)
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To: exnavychick

Not just for failing to report the rape to authorities, but because her actions directly contributed to the girl's death.


4 posted on 12/18/2004 2:57:41 PM PST by exnavychick (Just my two cents, as usual.)
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To: Lib Buster

It's not vioxx or celebrex. Move along....


5 posted on 12/18/2004 2:58:03 PM PST by Indy Pendance
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To: Lib Buster
I love how this works... If a child has a headache, they're told to suck it up, since dispensing any form of aspirin would be a horror. Yet claim to have sex, and it's off in a vehicle for emergency contraceptives.

What ever happened to mandatory reporters? That councilor heard about sex abuse and all they did was deal with the possible results of it. Where's the DA's statement that the man was arrested?
6 posted on 12/18/2004 2:59:43 PM PST by kingu (Which would you bet on? Iraq and Afghanistan? Or Haiti and Kosovo?)
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: exnavychick
Not just for failing to report the rape to authorities, but because her actions directly contributed to the girl's death.

Somehow, I'd expect the death of the girl to be somewhere in the article - you sure you aren't mixing up stories here?
8 posted on 12/18/2004 3:01:05 PM PST by kingu (Which would you bet on? Iraq and Afghanistan? Or Haiti and Kosovo?)
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To: Lib Buster
They're not our children anymore.

A lot of other villagers seem to think so.

once at a convenience store, I heard a 5th grade public school teacher bragg to the clerk how she was indoctrinating her students with feminism. She had no problem arrogating to herself the position of parent.

9 posted on 12/18/2004 3:02:00 PM PST by Tom Bombadil
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To: Lib Buster

Amazing. The 23-year-old man in question should go to work for the school so he can screw all the underage girls he wants, since they are so willing to cover up his crimes for him. Why shouldn't he work for the district? After all, it's supposed to be confidential, no matter what laws are broken. And who's to say the perp doesn't already work for them? No one would tell, it's confidential.

If the schools keep this up, the pedophiles and perverts will be banging down the doors to work for schools so they can harvest any kid they want for sex. Then they take them down and get them "fixed" in the name of abortion; It's all confidential, you know...


10 posted on 12/18/2004 3:02:01 PM PST by dandelion (http://thequestionfairy.blogspot.com/)
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To: exnavychick

She died?


11 posted on 12/18/2004 3:04:22 PM PST by Mercat (Have a blessed Christmas and New Year.)
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To: exnavychick
I didn't see where the girl had died.

It will be interesting to watch this and see how it ends...will the courts find the school district has the right to interfere; will there be charges filed against the 23 yr old; will the counselor be fired?
12 posted on 12/18/2004 3:05:12 PM PST by momf ( Immigrant =came the correct way; IIlegal = criminal)
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To: Lib Buster
Get OUT of the PUBLIC SCHOOLS...... Wake up America this is a sinking ship. When they pay in excess of $9,000.00 to school one child something is VERY wrong.
13 posted on 12/18/2004 3:06:37 PM PST by Phyto Chems (Convert or DIE is there call --- but I will remember Nick Berg & now Paul Johnson and .....)
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To: exnavychick
If that's the case, the nurse belongs in lockup, along with this 23 year old.

I agree.

14 posted on 12/18/2004 3:06:37 PM PST by farmfriend ( Congratulation. You are everything we've come to expect from years of government training.)
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To: Lib Buster; exnavychick
Hypothetical: If you were on a jury and the case was a murder case where a father had killed a school counselor/nurse who had, behind his back, helped his daughter obtain abortion pills and which caused her death, would you vote to convict or acquit?
15 posted on 12/18/2004 3:10:43 PM PST by bushisdamanin04
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To: Lib Buster

The libs don't believe in parental notification in the case of abortion. This certainly fits the same pattern.


16 posted on 12/18/2004 3:11:20 PM PST by OldFriend (PRAY FOR MAJ. TAMMY DUCKWORTH)
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To: exnavychick
There is nothing in the article to suggest the girl died.

Try sticking to the facts!

17 posted on 12/18/2004 3:13:44 PM PST by OldFriend (PRAY FOR MAJ. TAMMY DUCKWORTH)
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To: All

OK...my bad! I am really sorry. I somehow got this one mixed up in my head with a similar story I heard earlier this year. My apologies.


18 posted on 12/18/2004 3:24:02 PM PST by exnavychick (Just my two cents, as usual.)
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To: Lib Buster
The public health nurse dispensed the prescription-only, "morning-after" pills. "She was returned to the school with the statement by the counselor that what had happened was their secret and they did not have to tell her parents," Berryman said.

Question: What is the law in Wyoming concerning parental notification? AND, nurses can dispense but not prescribe medicine--so did a doctor write the prescription?

19 posted on 12/18/2004 3:32:22 PM PST by ikka
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To: Lib Buster

Assuming that a 15-year old is under the age of consent in the state in question, apparently ...

... the right to abortion privacy is more important than reporting a crime to authorities

... the right to abortion privacy is more important than letting parents know that their daughter has been the victim of a crime

... the right of a minor to obtain an abortion without parental consent extends to the school system that advised/assisted her (it doesn't have to even be her idea)

Alas ...

Well, I hope the parents' suit prevails. They need a good lawyer, though, who will pursue it on the right constituional grounds. In the courts, it can't be about the girl's abortion rights but about the school's interference in the parent-child relationship.


20 posted on 12/18/2004 3:40:35 PM PST by bin2baghdad
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To: Lib Buster
Worland High School student, 15, confided in the ninth-grade counselor that she had sex with a 23-year-old and was afraid of being pregnant.
The counselor made an appointment with the public health office in Worland and took the girl to the office during class time in her own vehicle.

The public health nurse dispensed the prescription-only, "morning-after" pills. "She was returned to the school with the statement by the counselor that what had happened was their secret and they did not have to tell her parents,"


Unbelievable. Either the story has been cBSed or the school district is run by idiots more concerned with their political agenda than they are for the welfare of the children.
21 posted on 12/18/2004 3:43:58 PM PST by crazyhorse691 (We won. We don't need to be forgiving. Let the heads roll!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Lib Buster
The public schools have done such a bang up job teaching academics that they now are entitled to control all aspects of their students lives -- all without accountability.
22 posted on 12/18/2004 3:58:12 PM PST by Semi Civil Servant
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To: exnavychick

The girl died?


23 posted on 12/18/2004 4:11:45 PM PST by Mamzelle
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To: ikka
From http://legisweb.state.wy.us/statutes/titles/title35/chapter06.htm

CHAPTER 6

ABORTIONS

35-6-101 Definitions.

(a) As used in the act, unless the context otherwise requires:

(i) "Abortion" means an act, procedure, device or prescription administered to or prescribed for a pregnant woman by any person with knowledge of the pregnancy, including the pregnant woman herself, with the intent of producing the premature expulsion, removal or termination of a human embryo or fetus, except that in cases in which the viability of the embryo or fetus is threatened by continuation of the pregnancy, early delivery after viability by commonly accepted obstetrical practices shall not be construed as an abortion;

(ii) "Accepted medical procedures" means procedures of the type and performed in a manner and in a facility which is equipped with surgical, anaesthetic, resuscitation and laboratory equipment sufficient to meet the standards of medical care which physicians engaged in the same or similar lines of work in the community would ordinarily exercise and devote to the benefit of their patients;

(iii) "Conception" means the fecundation of the ovum by the spermatozoa;

(iv) "Hospital" means those institutions licensed by the state department of health as hospitals;

(v) "Physician" means any person licensed to practice medicine in this state;

(vi) "Pregnant" means that condition of a woman who has a human embryo or fetus within her as the result of conception;

(vii) "Viability" means that stage of human development when the embryo or fetus is able to live by natural or life-supportive systems outside the womb of the mother according to appropriate medical judgment;

(viii) "Woman" means any female person;

(ix) The singular where used herein includes the plural, the plural includes the singular, and the masculine includes the feminine or neuter, when consistent with the intent of this act and when necessary to effect its purpose;

(x) "Minor" means a pregnant woman under the age of eighteen (18), but does not include any woman who:

(A) Is legally married;

(B) Is in active military service; or

(C) Has lived apart from her parents or guardian, has been financially independent and has managed her own affairs for at least six (6) months prior to a proposed abortion.

(xi) "Parents" means both parents of a minor if they are both living, or one (1) parent of the minor if only one (1) is living or if the second parent cannot be located through a reasonably diligent effort;

(xii) "This act" means W.S. 35-6-101 through 35-6-118.

35-6-102 No abortion after viability; exception.

An abortion shall not be performed after the embryo or fetus has reached viability except when necessary to preserve the woman from an imminent peril that substantially endangers her life or health, according to appropriate medical judgment.

35-6-103 Viability not affected by abortion.

A physician who performs an abortion procedure employed pursuant to W.S. 35-6-102 shall not intentionally terminate the viability of the unborn infant prior to, during or following the procedure.

35-6-104. Means of treatment for viable abortion.

The commonly accepted means of care shall be employed in the treatment of any viable infant aborted alive with any chance of survival.

35-6-105 Private institutions not required to perform abortions; no liability for refusal to perform abortion.

No private hospital, clinic, institution or other private facility in this state is required to admit any patient for the purpose of performing an abortion nor to allow the performance of an abortion therein. The private hospital, clinic, institution or any other private facility shall inform any prospective patient seeking an abortion of its policy not to participate in abortion procedures. No cause of action shall arise against any private hospital, clinic, institution or any other private facility for refusing to perform or allow an abortion.

35-6-106 Persons not required to perform abortion; no civil liability for refusal; sanctions or discrimination for refusal forbidden.

No person shall, in any way, be required to perform or participate in any abortion or in any act or thing which accomplishes or performs or assists in accomplishing or performing a human miscarriage, euthanasia or any other death of a human fetus or human embryo. The refusal of any person to do so is not a basis for civil liability to any person. No hospital, governing board or any other person, firm, association or group shall terminate the employment of, alter the position of, prevent or impair the practice or occupation of, or impose any other sanction or otherwise discriminate against any person who refuses to perform or participate in any abortion or in any act or thing which accomplishes, performs or assists in accomplishing or performing a human miscarriage, euthanasia or any other death of a human fetus or embryo.

35-6-107 Forms for reporting abortions.

(a) The state office of vital records services shall establish an abortion reporting form which shall be used after May 27, 1977 for the reporting of every abortion performed or prescribed in this state. The form shall include the following items in addition to such other information as may be necessary to complete the form, but in no case shall information be required that would tend to disclose the identity of any individual participating in an abortion:

(i) The age of the pregnant woman;

(ii) The type of procedure performed or prescribed;

(iii) Complications, if any;

(iv) A summary of the pregnant woman's obstetrical history regarding previous pregnancies, abortions and live births;

(v) The length and weight of the aborted fetus or embryo, when measurable;

(vi) Type of facility where the abortion is performed (i.e., hospital, clinic, physician's office, or other).

(b) The form shall be completed by the attending physician and sent to the state health officer as defined in W.S. 9-2-103(e) within twenty (20) days after the abortion is performed.

35-6-108 Compilations of abortions; matter of record; exception.

The state office of vital records services shall prepare and after May 27, 1977 keep on file for seven (7) years compilations of the information submitted on the abortion reporting forms. The compilations shall be available only to a local, state or national public health official or a physician upon his written request. The state health officer, in order to maintain and keep such compilations current, shall file with the reports any new or amended information. The information submitted under W.S. 35-6-107 and compiled under this section shall not be stored in any computer.

35-6-109 Rules and regulations for disposal of bodies and parts thereof.

The state department of health may prescribe rules and regulations for the disposal of the bodies, tissues, organs and parts thereof of an unborn child, human fetus or human embryo which has been aborted.

35-6-110. Penalty for violation of W.S. 35-6-102, 35-6-103 or 35-6-104

Any physician or other person who violates any provision of W.S. 35-6-102, 35-6-103 or 35-6-104 is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment in the penitentiary for not more than fourteen (14) years.

35-6-111 Penalty for person other than physician to perform abortion.

Any person other than a licensed physician who performs an abortion is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment in the penitentiary for not less than one (1) year nor more than fourteen (14) years.

35--6-112 Penalty to use means other than commonly accepted medical procedures.

Any person who performs or prescribes an abortion by using anything other than accepted medical procedures is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment in the penitentiary for not more than fourteen (14) years.

35-6-113 Penalty for violating W.S. 35-6-106

Any person, firm, corporation, group or association who violates W.S. 35-6-106 is guilty of an offense punishable by a fine of not more than ten thousand dollars ($10,000.00).

35-6-114 Right to damages for discriminatory employment practices for refusal to perform abortion.

Any person or persons injured by any action prohibited in W.S. 35-6-106 may by civil action obtain injunctive relief or damages.

35-6-115 Penalty for giving away a live or viable aborted child for experimentation.

Whoever sells, transfers, distributes or gives away any live or viable aborted child for any form of experimentation is guilty of a felony punishable by a fine of not less than ten thousand dollars ($10,000.00) and by imprisonment in the penitentiary for not less than one (1) year nor more than fourteen (14) years. Any person consenting, aiding or abetting such sale, transfer, distribution or other unlawful disposition of an aborted child is guilty of a felony punishable by a fine of not less than ten thousand dollars ($10,000.00) and by imprisonment in the penitentiary for not less than one (1) year nor more than fourteen (14) years or both, and shall also be subject to prosecution for violation of any other criminal statute.

35-6-116 Advertising drug or nostrum for procuring abortion or miscarriage.

Whoever prints or publishes any advertisement of any drug or nostrum with intent to obtain utilization of such drug or nostrum for procuring abortion or miscarriage; or sells or gives away, or keeps for sale or gratuitous distribution, any newspaper, circular, pamphlet, or book containing such advertisement, or any account or description, of such drug or nostrum with intent to obtain utilization of such drugs or nostrum to procure abortion or miscarriage, shall be fined not more than one hundred dollars ($100.00), to which may be added imprisonment in the county jail for not more than six (6) months.

35-6-117 Use of appropriated funds for abortion prohibited; exceptions.

No funds appropriated by the legislature of the state of Wyoming shall be used to pay for abortions except when the pregnancy is the result of incest as defined by W.S. 6-4-402 or sexual assault as defined by W.S. 6-2-301 if the assault is reported to a law enforcement agency within five (5) days after the assault or within five (5) days after the time the victim is capable of reporting the assault, or when the life of the mother would be endangered if the unborn child was carried to full term.

35-6-118 Procedure governing abortion performed upon minor.

(a) An abortion shall not be performed upon a minor unless at least one (1) of the minor's parents or her guardian are notified in writing at least forty-eight (48) hours before the abortion, and the attending physician has obtained the written consent of the minor and at least one (1) parent or guardian of the minor, unless:

(i) The minor, in a closed hearing, is granted the right to self-consent to an abortion by court order pursuant to subparagraph (b)(v)(B) of this section and the attending physician receives a certified copy of the court order and the written consent of the minor; or

(ii) The abortion is authorized by court order pursuant to subparagraph (b)(v)(C) of this section and the attending physician receives a certified copy of the court order.

(b) A juvenile court of jurisdiction may grant the right of a minor to self-consent to an abortion or may authorize an abortion upon a minor in accordance with the following procedure:

(i) The minor shall apply to the juvenile court for assistance either in person or through an adult of the minor's choice. The court shall assist the minor in preparing the petition and notices required under this subsection;

(ii) Notwithstanding W.S. 14-6-212, the minor or an adult of the minor's choice shall file a petition with the court, signed by the minor and setting forth:

(A) The initials of the minor and the minor's date of birth;

(B) The names and addresses, if known, of the minor's parents, guardian, custodian or, if the minor's parents are deceased and a guardian or custodian has not been appointed, any other person standing in loco parentis of the minor;

(C) That the minor has been informed by her treating physician of the risks and consequences of an abortion;

(D) That the minor is mature and wishes to have an abortion; and

(E) Facts indicating why an abortion is in the best interest of the minor.

(iii) The court may appoint a guardian ad litem of the minor and may appoint legal counsel for the minor;

(iv) Within five (5) days after the petition is filed under paragraph (ii) of this subsection, a hearing on the merits of the petition shall be held on the record. Any appointed counsel shall be appointed and notified by the court at least forty-eight (48) hours before the time set for hearing. At the hearing, the court shall hear evidence relating to:

(A) The maturity and understanding of the minor;

(B) The nature of the abortion, risks and consequences of the abortion, and alternatives to the abortion; and

(C) Whether an abortion is in the best interest of the minor.

(v) In its order, which shall be issued within twenty-four (24) hours of the hearing, the court shall enter findings of fact and conclusions of law, order the record of the hearing sealed and shall:

(A) Deny the petition, setting forth the grounds on which the petition is denied;

(B) Grant the minor the right to self-consent to the abortion based upon a finding by clear and convincing evidence that the minor is sufficiently mature and adequately informed to make her own decision, in consultation with her physician, independently of the wishes of her parents or guardian; or

(C) Authorize the abortion based upon a finding by clear and convincing evidence that the abortion is in the best interest of the minor.

(vi) Any order entered pursuant to paragraph (v) of this subsection may be appealed by a party to the supreme court in accordance with the Wyoming Rules of Appellate Procedure. Notwithstanding W.S. 14-6-233, the supreme court shall by rule provide for expedited appellate review of appeals under this paragraph.

(c) The provisions of this section shall not apply in an emergency medical situation when, to a reasonable degree of medical probability, the attending physician determines that an abortion is necessary to preserve the minor from an imminent peril that substantially endangers her life, and so certifies in the minor's medical record.

(d) The written notifications required under this section shall be delivered:

(i) Personally by the minor, attending physician or an agent; or

(ii) By certified mail addressed to the parent at the usual place of abode of the parent with return receipt requested and restricted delivery to the addressee.

(e) No parent, guardian or spouse shall require a minor to submit to an abortion against her wishes.

(f) Any physician or other person who knowingly performs an abortion on a minor in violation of W.S. 35-6-118 is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000.00), imprisonment for not more than one (1) year, or both.

24 posted on 12/18/2004 4:25:03 PM PST by Lib Buster (It's freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.)
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To: exnavychick
The story you are thinking of is Veeeery recent. The pretty, blonde 16 year old girl who had an incomplete abortion after taking RU486 and died of a massive infection. Her father was on every news channel just three or four weeks ago.

And you were right--some folks on the forum are being way to testy.

Its Saturday, kids. Go ahead, drink some beer.

25 posted on 12/18/2004 5:42:37 PM PST by grellis ("I went to a Basketball game and a Music Awards Ceremony broke out"--discipler)
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To: grellis
That girl (Holly Patterson) was 18 (barely) -- not 16, and apparently more or less living with her boyfriend. According to articles published shortly after her death, she had gone to spend the night at her boyfriend's AFTER she had started having severe complications while at her father's house (which she told him were just severe menstrual cramps). It was the boyfriend who took her to the emergency room in the middle of the night. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/09/19/BA258408.DTL

There's not much any law can do to protect a legal adult, who lies to family members about the reason she's writhing in pain, crying, and bleeding heavily, and then departs for her boyfriend's house, and fails to seek medical attention until it's way too late. The mode of her death was absolutely identical to those associated with miscarriages that develop complications and don't get timely medical attention. Bleeding or infection resulting from a miscarriage can be deadly if not treated in a timely manner -- makes no difference whether the miscarriage was natural or induced.

A couple of years ago, a girl from a devout Catholic family bled to death in a college dorm bathroom after a miscarriage. She hadn't told her parents she was pregnant because of their religious beliefs, and apparently failed to seek medical attention with the miscarriage in a further effort to hide that she'd ever been pregnant. It had nothing to do with RU-486, but she's just as dead as Holly Patterson.

26 posted on 12/18/2004 7:19:50 PM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: gohot

If it was my daughter the counselor and the 23 year old "perp" WOULD BE DEAD!


27 posted on 12/18/2004 8:38:07 PM PST by Syntyr
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To: grellis

Actually, I was thinking of the one where, I do believe, the victim was college student. I think she was older than sixteen, anyway.

In any event, it still wasn't the young lady in THIS story, lol.

Merry Christmas!


28 posted on 12/19/2004 6:20:54 AM PST by exnavychick (Just my two cents, as usual.)
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To: Mamzelle

No, I mixed up different stories.

See above for my apology. :)

Merry Christmas!


29 posted on 12/19/2004 6:24:49 AM PST by exnavychick (Just my two cents, as usual.)
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To: bushisdamanin04

That's a good question.

Logically, I would have to convict, because the father had broken the law. That doesn't mean I wouldn't sympathize with him.


30 posted on 12/19/2004 6:27:47 AM PST by exnavychick (Just my two cents, as usual.)
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To: OldFriend

Please, it's not necessary to bite my head off. I made a mistake. You could have pointed it out a bit more nicely.

Thanks.


31 posted on 12/19/2004 6:29:03 AM PST by exnavychick (Just my two cents, as usual.)
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To: gohot
Seems that the family is seeking legal remedy which is a cornerstone of our Constitution. Force is not necessary there.
32 posted on 12/19/2004 7:15:26 AM PST by jokar (On line data base http://www.trackingthethreat.com/db/index.htm)
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To: exnavychick
I'd acquit in a heartbeat and have no second thoughts whatsoever.

My "favorite" case was the Louisiana case where a perv had abducted and molested a young boy. When authorities caught the perv they returned him by air and the media covered the return at the airport. The boy's father was at a pay phone in the corridor pretending to be on the phone. When the cops and the perv passed, the father turned and sent the perv to hell with a well-placed shot. The whole thing was even caught on video by the media. Verdict: Not Guilty.

33 posted on 12/19/2004 9:27:30 AM PST by bushisdamanin04
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To: exnavychick
Maybe I am wrong, but I think if this 15 year old confided in this nurse that she had slept with a 23 year old, the nurse would be required to report that to the authorities, since it is statutory rape.

In the state where I live, (1) the counselor would've been required to report the statutory rape, (2) it is against policy for a school employee to transport a student in a personal vehicle without parental permission, and frowned upon in any case, (3) it is against board policy for a student to leave campus during the school day, with or without a school employee, without parental permission.

The public health nurse should also have reported the statutory rape, but there are a lot of things that shouldn't have happened, if the story did happen as the parents believe.

34 posted on 12/19/2004 9:41:53 AM PST by Amelia
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To: bushisdamanin04

I remember that case very well. I would vote to convict in both instances. The systems sucks sometimes, but I'd rather have one like ours than one where people go around meting out justice as they see fit.

The media often hypes cases without bothering to report all the facts, (and sometimes they don't HAVE all the facts!) and for that simple reason, I would at least let the system do it's job. It's called the presumption of innocence, in case you've forgotten.

FWIW, many of those creeps that end up charged with killing a child usually end up in prison or death row. Prosecuters don't like child killers any more than the rest of us, and try to have all their ducks in a row when the trial comes around.

I can't imagine what my reaction would be if someone had abducted and killed my child, or had otherwise acted in a manner which resulted in death for my child, but I believe in justice, and not at the hands of my neighbors. We don't always get it in the system, but I'd rather do that than have the blood of someone else on my hands.

How would you feel if it turned out that the "perp" hadn't really done it? Say someone else gets caught doing something similar and they find out through DNA testing that THIS guy, rather than the one who was killed, is responsible? I couldn't live with myself. Better to roll the dice with a jury, than pull the trigger, since you can't take the bullet back if you're wrong.


35 posted on 12/19/2004 9:45:45 AM PST by exnavychick (Just my two cents, as usual.)
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To: Amelia
Yeesh. I didn't know that. When I got ill with the stomach flu in the 8th grade, I got sent home. Unfortunately, my parents couldn't be reached, so I was walking home. One of my teachers spotted me (I had left during the last period of the day) and offered to give me a ride home. I turned her down, because I didn't have much further to go (and I was afraid I'd puke in her car, lol). It's hard to imagine she would be violating school policy with that. I can understand why it's there (For cases like the one here) but I guess they get into the habit of overlooking it, when a teacher would usually be helping for benign reasons.

Besides, I'm sure there are some whacked out folks that think what the nurse did was benign anyway. Ugh.
36 posted on 12/19/2004 9:51:23 AM PST by exnavychick (Just my two cents, as usual.)
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To: exnavychick
It's hard to imagine she would be violating school policy with that.

Actually, I think it's mostly for self-protection. If a teacher got into an accident with a student in the car, s/he could be held personally liable, and the student could also claim that the teacher attempted molestation, if the student were malicious. And so on....

37 posted on 12/19/2004 9:56:17 AM PST by Amelia
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To: Amelia

Good point. I sometimes forget that lots of kids aren't raised to be honest and forthright, and/or the parents are greedy and want to make a buck.

People get sued over that kind of thing all the time. My grandfather got hit by a lady when he was riding a bike, and her insurance company sued HIM so that they wouldn't have to pay for his medical bills, ect. HA HA That little plan backfired. They had to pay the bills, plus $10,000. He wasn't doing anything wrong, just in the wrong place, wrong time.

Unfortunately, people always threaten to sue. I know that's one reason why my teachers were always stand-offish...they didn't want to be accused of sexual harrassment or worse.


38 posted on 12/19/2004 10:01:25 AM PST by exnavychick (Just my two cents, as usual.)
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To: exnavychick

What you say makes sense, but doesn't change my mind. I would still have acquitted the guy. In fact, I admire the father's courage. I know that makes me a not so good person, but I am what I am. And twelve folks in Louisiana agreed with me.


39 posted on 12/19/2004 10:15:36 AM PST by bushisdamanin04
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To: bushisdamanin04

I know that makes me a not so good person, but I am what I am.
____________________________________________________________

I wouldn't say that...I would say it makes you human, same as me. :) We would just handle things differently. My view tends to be a bit more law-and-order than some.


40 posted on 12/19/2004 10:23:43 AM PST by exnavychick (Just my two cents, as usual.)
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To: exnavychick
I had a similar case with clients of mine. They were quite poor and both minorities and the other driver's insurance company was claiming it was my clients' fault and three other attorneys had turned them down. I was suspicious because the other driver was an insurance agent and of course insured by the company he worked for. I went to the scene and looked it over and it was quite obvious to me that my clients were not at fault. They said they were stopped behind the stop line and the other driver tried to make a right onto the street they were on and was going to fast in the snow and slid across the road and hit them. The other driver claimed that my clients had stopped way in front of the stop line and were blocking him.

Problem was, the other driver had impaled his SUV on a giant "screw" that was to be part of the base of a new light pole and the base was even with the stop line. I even invited the attorney who had been threatening my client to the scene and went over it with her. I also talked to the woman who lived on the corner and heard the collision and went to check on the people. She was a former cop and was of the opinion that the bad guy was high on Mary Jane. The other attorney evidently wasn't impressed (I think the insurance company was the driving force) and demanded that my uninsured clients pay them.

I told them that my clients were paying nothing and that they should sue. I even gave them my clients' address and told them when they were usually home. They finally sued (I didn't want to file as my clients had no money and as I was new in practice and poor myself I didn't want to pay the filing fee.

I immediately counter sued and at arbitration we won and were awarded $12,000. It was especially satisfying in that other attorneys wouldn't touch their case.

41 posted on 12/19/2004 10:28:55 AM PST by bushisdamanin04
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To: bushisdamanin04

BWAHAHAHA!!! Morons got hoisted on their own petard! Good job for your clients!

BTW, was there any confirmation of Mary Jane showing up at the scene? LOL If so, I hope they got to spend some time in jail, along with higher insurance rates. :)


42 posted on 12/19/2004 10:32:18 AM PST by exnavychick (Just my two cents, as usual.)
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To: exnavychick

Okay, since you passed on the opportunity to agree with me that I am a bad person, I'll quit while I'm ahead. :)


43 posted on 12/19/2004 10:33:20 AM PST by bushisdamanin04
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To: exnavychick

No as to MJ. The other driver begged the woman who lived on the corner not to call the cops. Advice to all: If you are involved in a collision that is NOT your fault, call the police! A driver who may seem very apologetic and cooperative at the scene may very well change his mind once he talks to his insurer.


44 posted on 12/19/2004 10:36:59 AM PST by bushisdamanin04
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To: exnavychick
There is something I've been meaning to comment on and I just never have, but it just popped into my mind again and I'll take the opportunity now.

I've posted to many boards and on every other board the poster's names are quite prominent and people would often respond basing their posts on WHO they were responding to rather than the issue and it always led to a series of personal attacks.

Here, although the posters' names are there, the names are displayed in such a way as to deemphasize them. The result is that most of the time I don't even notice WHO I am responding to as opposed to WHAT I am responding to. Oh well, now I've said it ... and I feel so much better!

45 posted on 12/19/2004 10:43:56 AM PST by bushisdamanin04
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To: bushisdamanin04

LOL...I know what you mean! I visit another board quite frequently (pregnancy one) and believe it or not, things get quite nasty from time to time. The upside to that is, you know who the bad apples are (people that like to start fights on a particular topic or on a particular person) and you can usually choose to "ignore user" on that board. It's great! LOL


46 posted on 12/19/2004 10:52:18 AM PST by exnavychick (Just my two cents, as usual.)
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To: exnavychick
Pregnant women doing battle! Sounds like a CBS "reality" show. :)
..
47 posted on 12/19/2004 11:07:54 AM PST by bushisdamanin04
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To: Amelia
the problem here is also the fact that if the man in question is 23 it is not statutory rape rather child molestation. I know one should not take personal attacks on people but the counselor in question also told one of her students many years ago that she should have gotten an abortion rather than bring her child into the world.
48 posted on 02/07/2005 5:35:39 AM PST by brooke_ra
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